The Road Trip Draft R1: Enigma/TRV vs Arbitrium

[Isotope]

Also, not sure why Robben didnt get love playing with Messi. Robben is more than capable of being the run at defense and make a finish role without too much of a deeper role. His 2014 WC role would have been perfect here. The older post tiki taka, slightly slower Messi would have absolutely loved playing with him. I know you'd probably make a replacement considering the mixed reactions, but that attack is also final ready for me.

Agreed.

Also, the myth that Robben wouldn't work hard for the team was absurd. And he's just below Lahm and Muller on distance cover off the ball.

https://www.fifa.com/worldcup/archive/brazil2014/statistics/players/distance.html

 

[harms]

Agree on Robben. When I’ve read the arguments it looked like they were talking about the young version of him that only had one move — cut inside and shoot a left-footed curler in the far corner. Especially that argument that he never played with an overlapping fullback (sorry, Philipp).

I think that Ronaldinho poses a relatively bigger problem. It’s not that it won’t be operable, but this partnership definitely won’t bring out the very best out of both of them.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

It really does make you wonder what the real reason was for Ronaldinho leaving. I know the official line was that he wanted to go to A.C. Milan but there has to be more to it than that.

Guardiola has been able to turn 33 year old Fernandinho into arguably the leagues best defensive midfielder, and keep 32 year old David Silva performing as one of the league's best attacking midfielders. He's also saw periods of rejuvenation from Aguero and just generally, makes players better.

Given that Ronaldinho was 28 and less than 2 years previous undoubtedly the worlds best player, Why wasn't it even attempted by Guardiola to keep Ronaldinho in the side despite deciding Messi would become a false 9?

 

[harms]

It really does make you wonder what the real reason was for Ronaldinho leaving. I know the official line was that he wanted to go to A.C. Milan but there has to be more to it than that.

Guardiola has been able to turn 33 year old Fernandinho into arguably the leagues best defensive midfielder, and keep 32 year old David Silva performing as one of the league's best attacking midfielders. He's also saw periods of rejuvenation from Aguero and just generally, makes players better.

Given that Ronaldinho was 28 and less than 2 years previous undoubtedly the worlds best player, Why wasn't it even attempted by Guardiola to keep Ronaldinho in the side despite deciding Messi would become a false 9?

That theory is a bit weak when you look at the facts. The difference between Ronaldinho and Fernandinho/Silva is that the latter two are great professionals. Guardiola always required a certain behaviour from his stars, hence why Ronaldinho, Ibrahimovic and even Eto'o, who failed to adapt to his system (mental as well as tactical), were quickly shipped out.

Ronaldinho was sold in the summer of 2008. The introduction of Messi as a false 9 happened at May of 2009. Ronaldinho's career showed that Pep was right to sell him — and he really wasn't all that after the 2006 World Cup, it pretty much broke him.

Other top Barcelona players such as Gary Lineker, Steve Archibald, Ivan de la Peña and Patrick Kluivert could all have left under better circumstances. Ronaldinho’s career at Barcelona appears to be following a depressingly familiar line.

Having guided Barcelona to two league titles and victory in the Champions League in his first three seasons at the club he is now being accused of failing to pull his weight.

Fitness problems, no-shows at training, a series of below-par performances on the pitch and rumours about late nights have all served to tarnish his reputation. Some of the local media even say that Barca will be prepared to let him leave on a free transfer at the end of the season, while the latest stories suggest he could exercise FIFA’s article 17 and buy himself out of the contract for a song.

It is hard to believe that only two seasons ago he was the most sought-after player on the planet. What is it about Barcelona’s tendency to devour its own sons?

We asked at the start of this season whether it was time Barcelona let Ronadinho go, and the consensus was that it would be too great a loss for the club. I wonder how many people have changed their minds.

Simon Baskett, Madrid

Re: false 9

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/f...late-night-phone-call-from-Pep-Guardiola.html

 

[Enigma_87]

It really does make you wonder what the real reason was for Ronaldinho leaving. I know the official line was that he wanted to go to A.C. Milan but there has to be more to it than that.

Guardiola has been able to turn 33 year old Fernandinho into arguably the leagues best defensive midfielder, and keep 32 year old David Silva performing as one of the league's best attacking midfielders. He's also saw periods of rejuvenation from Aguero and just generally, makes players better.

Given that Ronaldinho was 28 and less than 2 years previous undoubtedly the worlds best player, Why wasn't it even attempted by Guardiola to keep Ronaldinho in the side despite deciding Messi would become a false 9?

It was psychological more than anything and it was a waste going there (Milan), but Barca at the time thought he was past it.

Dinho was broken after that WC loss in the QF's. Some quotes at the time:

Before the last World Cup, in Germany in 2006, Ronaldinho was imperious at Barça, a genius leading his apprentice, Lionel Messi, toward heights that defied expectation and at times redefined the physics of soccer.

There were weeks, whole months, of matches in which Ronaldinho invented a trick every week. He did it for the fun of it, he did it because he dared to obey the instinct inside of him.

He did it because Frank Rijkaard, the Dutchman in charge of Barcelona at the time, was a coach who saw no reason not to allow genius its free rein.

Somehow, Ronaldinho lost zest.

Correction: It is highly probable that the selling of Ronaldinho, the most marketed player of the era, for an annual sum estimated at €23 million, or $33 million, by a dozen sponsors, helped burn out his joy. He was getting so much, riding so high, that he lost the very thing that the advertisers built their campaigns around.

He no longer “just did it” to paraphrase the Nike slogan.

He thought partying was more fun. He and his brother, who was also his agent, forgot the essence that made him worth his freedom on the field.

Who among us can say that we would not, come the 23rd million, similarly lose the focus? The failure of Brazil’s so-called Magic Quartet of Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Kaká and Adriano in 2006 ended with vandals destroying a 23-foot or 7.5-meter, fiberglass statue of Ronaldinho in Chapecó, Brazil.

“Every Brazil player went home from that World Cup shattered,” Ronaldinho said shortly afterward. “For me, it was harder. I created a lot of expectations because I had been in unbelievable form.”

 

[Gio]

Not just the fact that Ronaldinho was past it, it was about Guardiola imposing his own ideas on a group of malleable and hungry players. Ronaldinho wasn't really going to sacrifice himself for any greater good - in the way that Henry did for instance - at that stage in his career.

 

[Jim Beam]

Dinho was broken after that WC loss in the QF's. Some quotes at the time:

He was absolute shit on that WC, just unbelievably bad. There were rumors of Brazil parties in the camp for the whole preparations and that was also what pissed many in Brazil from what I have read. Btw what can you even expect from the camp in which you put together both him and Adriano? The only player that was performing to an acceptable level from the attacking quartet was Kaka.

Also, he was drinking and partying pretty much the whole time in Barcelona as well. It eventually took its tool as he suddenly lost that burst of pace, so it wasn't just tactics, it was mostly about him being past it and losing his hunger (on the field I mean, off the field he would drink and eat everything).

To the main point, I personally don't see the clash Messi - Ronaldinho on the field. Young Messi (false 9 or on the other wing) would work pretty good with peak Ronaldinho imo.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

obviously it doesnt take much imagination to picture ronaldinho and messi working together. Still think that if you've got both of them at the peak then its probably better with one or the other rather than together.

In that video, assist number 4 is what youd hope to see, but in reality peak ronaldinho is going to be occupying the spaces in assist 1,2,3 and 5.

I'm adamant that it wouldn't have worked against a top level defence, let alone the one I put out.

 

[Enigma_87]

He was absolute shit on that WC, just unbelievably bad. There were rumors of Brazil parties in the camp for the whole preparations and that was also what pissed many in Brazil from what I have read. Btw what can you even expect from the camp in which you put together both him and Adriano? The only player that was performing to an acceptable level from the attacking quartet was Kaka.

Also, he was drinking and partying pretty much the whole time in Barcelona as well. It eventually took its tool as he suddenly lost that burst of pace, so it wasn't just tactics, it was mostly about him being past it and losing his hunger (on the field I mean, off the field he would drink and eat everything).

To the main point, I personally don't see the clash Messi - Ronaldinho on the field. Young Messi (false 9 or on the other wing) would work pretty good with peak Ronaldinho imo.

Aye, was really surprising that. Maybe the fame got to him, but really can't explain the downward spiral since then. He literally lost all his competitive spirit and large part of the joy of the game.

He began slowing down Barca's attacks, and generally giving less feck on the pitch, so it's really not surprising they sold him at the time. It wasn't big shock either. Didn't even rely on blistering pace. With his vision and passing he could have been on top for a decade if he had the strive..

 

[The Red Viper]

Sorry for the late replies but been busy with some stuff which is why I haven't been online much here.

Wanted to reply about some comments about why Messi and Ronaldinho won't work well.

Don't get the reasoning at all.

Messi and Neymar worked extremely well and they were absolutely dangerous as a duo. And Ronaldinho is not only much better than Neymar, he is a lot less selfish as well. Much better passer which means he can execute those 1-2s with Messi really well, that will create chaos in any defense. Also forget Neymar. Especially under Pep, there were so many games, Barca started with Messi as a False 9 and had Iniesta and even Fabregas shunted on the LW. Yet they and Messi were brilliant.

As for the Robben argument, I can see some point behind it but the Robben most seem to talk about is the player pre-2012. Under Heynckes and Pep, he became such a complete footballer and that showed in the 2014 World Cup where he played in a front two where he had to operate a lot more in terms of running the channels, making run

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Sorry for the late replies but been busy with some stuff which is why I haven't been online much here.

Wanted to reply about some comments about why Messi and Ronaldinho won't work well.

Don't get the reasoning at all.

Messi and Neymar worked extremely well and they were absolutely dangerous as a duo. And Ronaldinho is not only much better than Neymar, he is a lot less selfish as well. Much better passer which means he can execute those 1-2s with Messi really well, that will create chaos in any defense. Also forget Neymar. Especially under Pep, there were so many games, Barca started with Messi as a False 9 and had Iniesta and even Fabregas shunted on the LW. Yet they and Messi were brilliant.

As for the Robben argument, I can see some point behind it but the Robben most seem to talk about is the player pre-2012. Under Heynckes and Pep, he became such a complete footballer and that showed in the 2014 World Cup where he played in a front two where he had to operate a lot more in terms of running the channels, making run

There was never any debate about the three of them being able to combine and make an elite 3some, but at their peaks (which we are supposed to judge them on) you wouldn’t be able to utilize all of them to maximum effect.

 

[Deleted member 101472]

Feck sake, if I had won this I’d have been able to put Van Basten and/or Henry up top with my reinforcements

 

[Himannv]

Feck sake, if I had won this I’d have been able to put Van Basten and/or Henry up top with my reinforcements

If I had won this, I'd have had first pick in reinforcements. I made sure I put myself in Belgium just so I could pick one of the three GOAT strikers from the surrounding countries.

 

[harms]

If I had won this, I'd have had first pick in reinforcements. I made sure I put myself in Belgium just so I could pick one of the three GOAT strikers from the surrounding countries.

Nope, you would've had the last one.