The relative strength of the Premier League

Wumminator said:
I think it's really interesting that as the season has gone on and we're in the endgame, the top clubs look fecking terrible.

Tottenham/United/Arsenal and Chelsea are obviously flopping, but even looking at Liverpool and City they keep winning but the games are tough for them.

I think Wolves/Everton/Leicester/Watford will be so interesting next year. With the right signings they could be right up there.

Seems to be a bit of a lack of quality below them though. Can a team like Palace with players such as Wann Bisaka/Zaha etc kick on or not?
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Seems Palace will sell one of those two mentioned so if they let Zaha go for 40m they'll have a decent summer warchest.

Palace away form is easily top 6, pretty sure without checking they have more away wins than Arsenal and Chelsea so really it's a case of sorting out their home form. Just 4 wins from 18 games is terrible even if they just want to play on the break.

Palace need to find some creative midfielders although even then Roy is probably too cautious to really go for it so guess they'll have to also change their manager eventually.
 
ivaldo said:
It has been, but doesn't affect what we have at this moment in time, which is what we are discussing.

Although we've had periods of dominance from some teams it's not remotely similar. Since 84/85 Deportivo has won it once, Valencia twice and A Madrid twice. Every other seasons it's been Real or Barca. In space of 7 years we could have more variance in winners than Spain has had in nearly 35.
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I accept that but at same time for over a decade in La Liga the two best players in the world have played there. When Ronaldo start peaking at Man. United they won the league three times in a row (07-09) and likely would've won 5 or 6 in a row if he'd stayed until 2012.

If Messi had joined a premier league club in that period I'm pretty sure that team would've won the title most seasons.

Man. City are looking like they could win 5 in a row now if Guardiola stays, they are that strong currently.

What I've always liked about La Liga is the amount of different teams that have played in Champions league down the years. Since 2000 we've had Depor making semi finals, Real Sociedad and Bilbao have played in it, Betis made it one year, Sevilla fully established themselves in it and made knock outs consistantly, Villareal got to the quarters in 2009, Celta Vigo played Arsenal in 2004 (they actually got relegated that season), Malaga really should've beaten Dortmund in the quarters in 2013 and since coming back in 2013 Atletico Madrid have become serious contender to win it.

9 teams other than the big 3 of Barca, Real Madrid and Valencia. Could very well be adding Getafe to that list in two weeks. From same time span with prem we had the Leicester season, Man. City obviously, Spurs before they fully established themselves (similar to Sevilla) and Newcastle who last played in CL in 2003 I think.

Trying to think of anyone else who's broken into the top 4 in that timeframe. That logjam means teams reach a certain level and then lose key players and then decline as we've seen with Villa and Everton over last decade.
 
giorno said:
Nobody's painting the league as poor, because it isn't


So question for both of you then: how many PL games not involving a top 6 did you watch this season? And do you remember which games?

And still relevant to the point: how many games in the domestic TV slots(so excluding the saturday 15 PM) didn't involve a top 6 this season?
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Wumminator said:
I think it's really interesting that as the season has gone on and we're in the endgame, the top clubs look fecking terrible.

Tottenham/United/Arsenal and Chelsea are obviously flopping, but even looking at Liverpool and City they keep winning but the games are tough for them.

I think Wolves/Everton/Leicester/Watford will be so interesting next year. With the right signings they could be right up there.

Seems to be a bit of a lack of quality below them though. Can a team like Palace with players such as Wann Bisaka/Zaha etc kick on or not?
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I don’t think the top 6 will change anytime soon, yes teams have improved but no on either knows if it’s just a purple patch or they are a cohesive team. Everton were absolute gash at times this season, Leicester are in new manager mode, Watford were good but have dropped off lately. Wolves have impressed me and have been great against the top teams but pretty average in games they should have won. We have to remember we’re comig off the back of a WC, and I think that’s why we’re seeing teams show clear signs of fatigue.
 
@debunkology I was only testing your reaction. I don’t agree with everything you said but some of what you mentioned makes sense.
 
Easily the best league now. Barca have been the most over rated team on here.
 
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By far the strongest league in Europe. No question.

Liverpool could not even afford to rest players whereas Barca playing in a mickey mouse league rested almost their whole starting 11 and still got demolished.

Possible to have 2 English teams in CL final and Europa League final. Ridiculous.

Barcelona would be fighting fro top 4 spot in EPL and City and Pool would both get 110 points at least in LaLiga.

The less said about Serie A and Bundesliga, the better.
 
Yeah it's the best league in the world again.

Liverpool and City are the 2 best teams in the world.
 
4/8 English teams in both European competitions still and we have 1 already in the final. It’s definitely up at the top again. Especially since the team that’s booked their place in the final did it last season too.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
Yeah it's the best league in the world again.

Liverpool and City are the 2 best teams in the world.
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Liverpool yes, City no. City haven't accomplished anything in Europe to be included in that list. I would still put Barcelona above them, remember Liverpool also trashed City at home last season.
 
hasanejaz88 said:
Liverpool yes, City no. City haven't accomplished anything in Europe to be included in that list. I would still put Barcelona above them, remember Liverpool also trashed City at home last season.
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If you include Liverpool, then you have to include City. They're likely to tally 198 points over 2 seasons. They lost in Europe to 2 premier league teams the past 2 seasons.

Meanwhile Barcelona in Europe have been embarrassed 2 seasons in a row after surrendering a 3 goal lead in the 1st.

City are easily a better team than Barcelona at the moment.
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
If you include Liverpool, then you have to include City. They're likely to tally 198 points over 2 seasons. They lost in Europe to 2 premier league teams the past 2 seasons.

Meanwhile Barcelona in Europe have been embarrassed 2 seasons in a row after surrendering a 3 goal lead in the 1st.

City are easily a better team than Barcelona at the moment.
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It depends on how you want to judge teams in Europe, do you want to judge them on their performances in Europe, domestic league or a combination of both? Were Liverpool one of the best teams in Europe last season because they reached the final, eventhough they barely made 4th in the league?

For most it would obviously be a mix of both with more emphasis on European performances. City have been found out tactically in all their seasons in Europe thus far, being especially poor away from home. Though they have been dominant domestically, that isn't any different from the early 2010's where they were also regularly winning the league but failing in Europe in the meantime.

Liverpool seem head and shoulders above the rest right now, because Klopp, who has always been punching above his weight in European competitions (bar his first two seasons at Dortmund), has finally found a formula to work domestically as well.
 
It's really funny now when English top teams are really good, teams in lower positions were probably never worse, which is the argument we used against La Liga :lol:
 
Amar__ said:
It's really funny now when English top teams are really good, teams in lower positions were probably never worse, which is the argument we used against La Liga :lol:
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The relegation contending teams are grim but then they often tend to be. The mid-table bunch this year aren't half-bad.
 
I think it is a bit funny that english teams seem to have more energy near the end of the seasons. Before people used to talk about english teams being burned out by playing in the hard premier league. With Spurs and Liverpool it has been almost the other way around (Liverpool played well all season though) with them both struggling in the group stage and being lucky to even qualify.
 
Classical Mechanic said:
Probably better than they have been for a long time I’d say.
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Aye, been a big step up from last year alone. Dyche did well with Burnley but they were a fairly average side, and Everton were so dire to watch that their fans hated Big Sam by the end of the season even though he took them for near the relegation zone to 8th.
 
I think in Guardiola, Klopp and Pochettino, we possibly have three of the very best coaches in world football. Combine that with the resources the Premier League clubs have at their disposal, and the fact that Barca, Real and Bayern are all in transition, and it's not a surprise to see the English clubs prospering.
 
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Cheesy said:
Aye, been a big step up from last year alone. Dyche did well with Burnley but they were a fairly average side, and Everton were so dire to watch that their fans hated Big Sam by the end of the season even though he took them for near the relegation zone to 8th.
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I’d fancy Leicester, Watford, Everton and Wolves to make a decent run at Europa if they were in it next season.
 
Cheesy said:
The relegation contending teams are grim but then they often tend to be. The mid-table bunch this year aren't half-bad.
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Yeah, midtable isn't that bad tbf. Cheosea/Arsenal are shit tbf, and relegation teams are absolutely terrible.
 
Amar__ said:
Yeah, midtable isn't that bad tbf. Cheosea/Arsenal are shit tbf, and relegation teams are absolutely terrible.
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Chelsea and Arsenal aren't necessarily worse than last year though - despite their dreadful run of form Arsenal have undoubtedly progressed under Emery.
 
Infra-red said:
I think in Guardiola, Klopp and Pochettino, we possibly have three of the very best coaches in world football. Combine that with the resources the Premier League clubs have at their disposal, and the fact that Barca, Real and Bayern are all in transition, and it's not surprise to see the English clubs prospering.
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We all knew Pep would make City a great side. It pains me though that Liverpool is so good and we so bloody bad. Last season we started much better than them too and ended higher in the league.
 
Cheesy said:
Chelsea and Arsenal aren't necessarily worse than last year though - despite their dreadful run of form Arsenal have undoubtedly progressed under Emery.
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Classical Mechanic said:
Chelsea and Arsenal aren’t crap though. They’re both favourites to make the Europa League final tomorrow.
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They are poor IMO, but then you are probably right, after all they are probably better than teams in their positions in other leagues.
 
Amar__ said:
Yeah, midtable isn't that bad tbf. Cheosea/Arsenal are shit tbf, and relegation teams are absolutely terrible.
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Compared to City and Liverpool who are brilliant now. Aren't Getafe shit? They are 4th in La Liga.
 
Infra-red said:
I think in Guardiola, Klopp and Pochettino, we possibly have three of the very best coaches in world football. Combine that with the resources the Premier League clubs have at their disposal, and the fact that Barca, Real and Bayern are all in transition, and it's not surprise to see the English clubs prospering.
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Yeah, and Chelsea and Arsenal are still pretty strong.

I think also a big change in the PL has been the expansion of the top 4 into the top 6, CL means a lot and teams have to improve their level now in the league to even qualify. It as a result raises the level of all of those teams.

Previously in the 00's you had United and Chelsea as the premier teams, and Liverpool and Arsenal could relax a little as they'd most likely make top 4. Now.. to even get top 4 you need to be very good.

But a lot of the credit does indeed go to Pep, Klopp and Poch.
 
There is still a possibility that all the major English trophies and the EL and CL could be won by different English teams, but it requires Liverpool winning the league...
 
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