You don't take the top talents though, De Bruyne is the only player they can't replace very easily.
The relative strength of the Premier League
- Thread starter Wumminator
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You don't take the top talents though, De Bruyne is the only player they can't replace very easily.
It's not about taking top talents. It's about taking important players from some of the smaller clubs who can't replace those talents.
This article sums it up a bit.
Leicester’s new acquisition, Shinji Okazaki, might not have set the world alight at VfB Stuttgart, but the Japanese forward became a key player after switching to Mainz 05 two seasons ago, scoring 27 goals in 65 league games. Although they look to have snapped up a ready-made replacement in Yoshinori Muto – who, at 23, has six years on Okazaki, and has already scored twice in the opening three league games – Mainz have lost their main goal threat and an international with an almost one-in-two scoring record for Japan from around 100 caps.
Like the other clubs mentioned, they did good business, turning a €1.5m purchase into an €11m sale after two seasons. It should also be said that Okazaki was keen to leave and Mainz were adamant that he would only be sold to a foreign club. Still, can they expect phone calls about Muto next summer, if his fine form continues?
Stoke City’s new Spanish striker, Joselu, was only at Hannover 96 for a year, but since arriving from Hoffenheim had scored some important goals for the club, who were looking to fill the shooting boots of Mame Diouf – the Spaniard’s new team-mate at the Britannia. Joselu has already been missed by a Hannover team who have failed to win in the first three games, scoring just twice.
Due to its sometimes random and frenzied nature, the transfer period – particularly towards the sharp end – is inherently an unsettling and exciting time for fans, players and clubs alike. There will always be winners and losers, and this year is no different. High profile players in the Premier League have seen deals fall through and even bridges with their existing employers and fans seemingly burnt. Still, it just seems that one trend of this window was the improvement of the Premier League at the expense of its German counterpart.
But before we start to feel too sorry for the Bundesliga clubs, the players leaving the country this summer have generally brought in decent transfer fees. Nevertheless, it’s all well and good handing clubs such as Augsburg, Hoffenheim, Mainz and Hannover sacks full of freshly printed bank notes, but this money does not guarantee anything. Who says they can simply replace the players they have lost?
Sure, Wolfsburg seem to have done a decent job bringing in an almost like-for-like De Bruyne replacement in Draxler, while keeping around €40m stuffed in their back pocket. But how likely is it that Hoffenheim will pluck another Firmino from Brazil, or that Augsburg will find another gem in the second division? It’s possible, yes, but it’s unlikely, at least in the short term. While Wolfsburg browse for a De Bruyne replacement, clubs further down the food chain are forced to look for the new De Bruyne – to dig for rough diamonds and hope others will not notice their sparkle too quickly.
http://www.theguardian.com/football...mier-league-bundesliga-transfer-window-record
Like Balu points out, these Bundesliga clubs get money for these players. But these destinations are less glamourous and it is very hard to replace the quality of the player. So in that article it mentions Mainz getting Muto. But this is a player who has only scored 7 goals now. A lesser return than the player he replaced. If he had set the world alight then suddenly he might be on his way to the premier league.
We're not just talking about top talents we're talking about the focal points for some of these smaller teams. Sure they might not be the best the league has to offer, but that's not what the thread is about, it's about the fact that Premier League clubs are on the whole better than the foriegn counterparts.
They should be worried, but as long as the Premier League clubs actually fail to attract most of the quality talents, overspend heavily on average or worse players and then wonder why they can't get rid of players on ridiculously high wages who fail to perform, it's pretty awesome for the rest of Europe. It means that Premier League clubs fail to use their finacial advantage to get an actual advantage on the pitch. It's been happening for 4-5 years now and with every new tv deal, the clubs wasted more money without really improving or fixing the real issues.
I tell you what. It'd be interesting if you could help me compile a list of the three/four most important players at the lower Bundesliga clubs at the moment. And then we'll see where they are in 2/3 years time. I'm not saying these players are world beaters, I'm saying they're important first team Bundesliga players.
That's not what Balu said, Balu said that we should be worried when English clubs wake up and stop paying stupid amounts of money on sub par players and actually poach the talented ones. As long as english clubs waste their money on average players, Europe will be happy to sell because average players are very easy to replace for cheap.
Do you not think some of the players who joined the Premier League were their respective teams best players?
Firminio,
Son,
Okazaki,
Baba etc?
Even Matip whose leaving this year
Mainz finished 11th in the league last season. They sold a 29 year old striker for a club record fee and overall improved the team, now sitting in 6th place only 3 points behind 3rd and have just beaten Bayern a few days ago. Muto scored so far 7 goals in 20 games to replace the magnificent 12 goals in 32 games striker Okazaki.
How can you portray that as anything but a success story for Mainz?
I think they won't mind if this money allows them to invest into development and further stretch the gap in quality between German and English players.
Why @Twigginater compares only the goal stats, especially considering that this season won't finish for another three months, and so the stats will be quite different in the end?
Firminio was, Son, Okazaki and Baba were nowhere near that. In fact, Mainz lost their real top talent to Schalke last summer. Johannes Geis was probably Mainz's best player last season, a 22 year old young midfielder with the potential to become a starter for Germany. He stayed in the league though while the English club overpaid for an ageing forward who was easily replaced.
Good question. I think it's the best way to objectively compare players across the leagues? Especially if a theme quickly develops. How would you consider comparing the players?
They won't mind, they can replace them. Only Firmino was a big player.
Fair enough, you know more than me.
You really have to watch the teams and the players in the said team, like I said don't go after Moukandjo his stats are inflated by his team.
I think comparing players is quite impossible, and so a lost cause. Obviously, the best way of doing so (which again, I think is pointless) is by watching them playing. Which is quite difficult, and unless you're a masochist (or fans of those teams), it is hard to watch ever weak shit teams play each other in all European top leagues.
But definitely, making judgments exclusively on the number of goals scored in different leagues is quite idiotic. Especially considering that this season isn't over yet. A goal per minute stat would be slightly more useful, but is far from giving the bigger picture. Or any picture for that matter.
Stoke's transfer strategy is suicidal. They happily buy up all the flops from bigger clubs around Europe and gamble that they somehow turn it around. Transfers like Imbula and Shaqiri are the likes that can properly ruin a club, because they invest absurd fees into very high risk players and if things don't pan out they are stuck with financial black holes that no other club in Europe wants to touch. It perfectly illustrates what's wrong with most PL clubs.
What an achievement!
What an achievement!
They aren't financial black holes though because Stoke make so much money in the premier league. Those transfers could flop and they would still be fine.
If I would I'd try and find the goals per minutes stat (I can't be bothered) but I think by listing those players I've shown that players
a) Score more goals in the Bundesliga
b) Are often more important players for their Bundesliga counterparts.
Yeah, it never happened for EPL teams to go near bankrupt because they spent significant amount of money.
The wage per revenue ratio in EPL isn't very good, if I am not mistaken. Stoke's for example is 62%, which while not suicidal, isn't very healthy.
The problem is that you often ignore that players struggle to make the step up to big clubs no matter where they come from. Look at for example Bony or Benteke, who moved within the league but have completely different stats now.
Or look at some of the foreign players who hit a purple patch in the Premier League, that they didn't before and after. Michu for example or Demba Ba, who scored 5 goals in 09/10 and 10/11 in the Bundesliga and then all of a sudden jumped to 16 goals and 13 goals in 11/12 and 12/13 in the Premier League. It just happens, it doesn't mean anything in regards to the league.
Perfect logic. Touché
Well it's true.
Stoke have spent 21 million pounds net this season.
They can easily afford that.
You are only taking transfer fees into account.
Definitely not easily. They have a higher than they should have wage ratio, and they had only 4m (before tax) profit in the previous season.
Does not matter. They bought Shaqiri and Bojan, two players all top European forces dreamt about. They will be fine unlike those terrible shite idiots from outside PL.
They made a profit of 6m, this year they are fairly close to the limit.
Don't you get it guys: if you have a lot of money you can throw it all out of the window and it's all fine, because of logic!!
I mean why exaggerate like this?
Stoke have spent 20 million net this year. Last year they made a profit on their transfer dealings. The year before they spent nothing.
They've spent more money this year when the tv money increased. They are owned by a wealthy family who love the club. They are not going to slip into a "financial black hole"
Throwing money out of the window?
They've spent 20 million in three years net wise?
Why use Stoke as a club who are financially unstable. They have a wealthy family who love the club, have spent minimal, made a profit last year and have kept their transfer fees under control.
Bare in mind that from next year the tv deal in the premier league means that clubs will get a minimum 30 million pounds extra for a season from the tv money than they would have done two years ago.
Because their transfer strategy seems to be: spend big on flops and pray that they turn their lives around?
Buying players who have previously been at a higher profile club and then not done as well and signing them up is a perfectly effective transfer strategy. Shaqiri for example was in and around the first team squad at Bayern/Inter and Stoke took a risk on him hoping he would do better at a smaller club. This is a perfectly viable strategy and has seen Stoke establish themselves in the Premier League.
I know the PL is the bestest league in world ever and forever and all that but do you honestly believe a young player who is close to Bayern's first team (or "even" Inter's for that matter) would be willing to move to Stoke?
Stoke illustrates that with all the money flowing around the lower half of the PL is at risk of becoming the MLS/China/Saudi League of Europe.
- Shaqiri and Bojan at Stoke always being brought up as example of EPL superiority when they struggled at a poor Inter, a good Bayern, a poor Roma and a poor Milan.
- EPL dificulty being brought up as an explanation for English teams struggling in Europe, when Juventus is 16th in Serie A and defeat City with relative ease in Manchester, yet struggle to beat Frosinone and Gladbach a home.
Yeah, that's the main flaw in these player comparisons. Media hype defines opinions of players in England and everyone outside of that is unknown so no good. Mahrez and Kante were nothing players before they came to the PL, in Twigg's mind. Now they're examples of the PL stealing smaller European teams' best players. Riyad Mahrez finished 15th, 6th and 12th in Ligue 2 with Le Havre before moving to a Championship team - he's probably been the best player in the league. Christian Fuchs was probably the worst player in the Schalke team and left on a free - he's been a huge success and arguably the best left back in the PL. Ulloa scored 10 goals in 60 games/6 years in South America, spent 4 of the next 5 seasons in the Spanish 2nd division, and he finished his first season in the PL with double figures and as the top scorer for Leicester.
The Premier League is great entertainment. Why do people care about the quality of it? The only reason the quality actually matters is in the top teams' ability to perform in Europe. The European performances speak for themselves - they're not so great at the moment. The rest of it is just infantile point-scoring led by people who don't actually watch any other leagues.
Well it's not as I watch other leagues and enjoy the discussion.
Edit: who brought Mahrez and Kante into anything.
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I know the PL is the bestest league in world ever and forever and all that but do you honestly believe a young player who is close to Bayern's first team (or "even" Inter's for that matter) would be willing to move to Stoke?
Yes.
It didn't make any sense to me.
Bravo, well said.
now it's clear you are on a WUM. How are Stoke the more attractive proposition here?