Yes, they are through to QF. Did not concede a single goal in 210 minutes too.
The relative strength of the Premier League
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
Iirc, that was one of our better performances. We couldn't capitalize on our dominance.
Yeah very unlucky really, which is why I think it is ridiculous that if makes us a bad team.
PSV haven't conceded in that amount of time either.
I agree it was actually a good performance. Bit unlucky with the result.
Put it this way. Atletico rarely looked like conceding in this tie. On the other hand they created multiple chances but wasted it. So this tie could either have finished 0-0 or 3:0/4:0 easily on any other day. But an Atletico loss looked unlikely in normal time. PSV had 3 shots on target in 2 games against Atletico. 8 shots on target vs United. While conceding equal amount of shots against both teams. But i agree with you that one tie or game cannot be used to show how good or bad a team is. It is about the consistency throughout the season and maybe more.
Yeah nothing about the quality of the game, I watched the game and know how it went.(Well it was on in the background)
What makes me laugh is the idea that us losing to PSV shows to @Sarni that we are a bad team. Yet if PSV had beat Atletico (who would absolutely storm the premier league no question according to some people) I doubt he'd be arguing the same thing.
No, it's not us losing to PSV, it's us coming behind them and an average mid-table German team in a group over 6 games which proves to me that we are some way behind in Europe. We had six games to go through, all against mediocre opposition. How many times has a top team gone out in a group stage, especially having such an easy ride? It happens in knockout stages over two games as you can shut up a shop, be lucky and somehow scrape a win like Liverpool in 2005 but it almost never happens in groups. If you are good you will make t (unless you are in the sort of group City were in this season where two very good sides had to go out).
But yeah, it makes more sense to look at the total cost of all our players, their FIFA ratings and asking people on the street how many of them they know compared to Mainz players. Results on the pitch? Nah, not important when you know transfer fees and budgets.
I don't see how it's under any doubt that Atletico are better than all PL teams. Surely even you cannot be this deluded to think otherwise.
I mean this is exactly what I don't get.
You are quoted as saying "the fact we lost to PSV proves we aren't a good side at the minute"
I then say basically "Well Atletico drew with them over 210 minutes, does that mean they're not a good side?"
"Sorry I'm not using Fifa ratings and asking people on the street."
No Sarni you don't get to do that. You don't get to say "losing to PSV proves we aren't a good side" and then when I say "Well you're claiming that PSV beating us makes us poor, how about Atletico who are apparently massively superior only drawing with them over 210 minutes" you then don't get to go off about Fifa ratings or asking random people in the street (neither of which I have ever mentioned)
All I'm showing you is how the CL maybe isn't as fool proof as you thought. Six games is an absolutely miniscule percentage on which to rate a club.
I think Twigginater makes some good points.
That's true. You can't just take one season of the CL. Good thing most people are taking consistent CL/EL performances as well as league performances into account.
That's why Atletico are a much better team than us. They play better football, perform better in the league and are doing well in Europe as well.
But. If my starting point is that "the teams in La Liga are weaker lower down" then tbh you can see why I don't take "perform better in the league" into account.
As for consistent performances in CL how far back do we go? We're a completely different team than five years ago. We're a massively different team from three years ago. Hell our team this year is almost unrecognisable.
We played PSV this year and had the EXACT same number of shots as Atletico. That's interesting. That's worthy of a discussion. Does this mean that against a similar level of opposition that we actually play just as attacking football?
Atletico don't play attacking football.
Your starting point is incorrect given La Liga is a stronger league than the PL, and the lower down teams are pretty much as good. More importantly, Atletico are ahead of Real Madrid in that league, a team that is far better than us right now.
How far do we go? 3 years is a decent timeframe. Or take LVG's time if you will. It would make no sense whatsoever to take the time under SAF. In the last 3 years they beat us on every single parameter.
No, I don't think I said losing to PSV proves we aren't a good team. I said that failing to get out of such poor group in CL shows that we are some way behind in Europe. CL will never be a perfect measure but it's the only (along with EL) measure we have to compare teams from different leagues. Certainly a much better one than looking at the squad and thinking 'I've never seen these players, they must be crap' which you seem to be doing a lot.
Wait, so Twigg, are you actually claiming we're better/as good as than Atletico Madrid?
Against PSV?
" I think the fact that we lost to PSV proves that United are not a very good team at the minute"that's what started this whole resurgence in the thread!
In general. They are a defensive side which is why they sometimes struggle when they need to have a go at the opposition.
If we are to be pedantic then they still did better than us. If we'd got the same results they did against Atletico, we'd still be playing Champions League football today. Still pretty poor from them and I'd expect better.
I think we are on a very similar level to Atletico Madrid yes.
Just wanted to confirm so I can
OK, then I would actually rather say that us not getting out of groups in CL. PSV result was just the most decisive one.
This is perhaps the most deluded post I've ever seen on this forum and that's including all Glaston posts. Incredible.
We're not even better than West Ham now. But then again you probably think they are on a similar level to Atletico too.
We are also better than West Ham now.
I also think we are better than Leicester.
I also think Man City are better than Leicester.
He has a point. Atletico Madrid are ahead of Real Madrid. We are ahead of Southampton. What that really says is that Real Madrid and Southampton are at a similar level. Shows how strong the PL really is.
Can you please stop putting arguments into my mouth. It's quite tiring.
You have no argument. Atletico have over the last 3 years been matching Madrid and giving Barca real competition in La Liga (winning it), reaching the final and doing well in the CL, and yet they aren't as good as 4th-7th place Manchester United who have been trashed by their ex-players. And it's only because we have a few big names such as Rooney and Schweinsteiger, and of course are Manchester United. Performances apparently have no relevance.
Are we better than Real Madrid and Juventus? Or similar level?
The OP is hilarious. It's starts with:
Then goes on to post some fifth placed teams - Spurs from five years ago (why?), Our line-up (uncomfortably sixth actually), Sevilla, Mainz - to prove how the premier league is better.
Then he doesn't want to compare CL/EL where the most premier league "top" teams have been embarrassed this season, again. That is too small a sample size.
Someone should be to post the line-ups of the actual 1st and 5th placed teams in the league to show how the premier league is the bestest..
This is another Twigginater special along with "Teams play good football for only 5 or 6 games a season"
The amount of players Twigg knows is far more relevant. I mean players like Saul, who are they? Must be crap.
I've had plenty of arguments. You just chose to ignore them.
To give Barce and Real a run in the league you don't need to be as good as them. You need to consistently beat the rest of the teams in the league. Which I don't think is very high (especially the bottom ten teams)
I think we are better than the teams like Leicester and West Ham. However because every game in the prem is harder to call you get anomalies where teams fluctuate more.
To give Barce and Real a run in the league you don't need to be as good as them. You need to consistently beat the rest of the teams in the league. Which I don't think is very high (especially the bottom ten teams)
I think we are better than the teams like Leicester and West Ham. However because every game in the prem is harder to call you get anomalies where teams fluctuate more.
The OP is hilarious. It's starts with:
Then goes on to post some fifth placed teams - Spurs from five years ago (why?), Our line-up (uncomfortably sixth actually), Sevilla, Mainz - to prove how the premier league is better.
Then he doesn't want to compare CL/EL where the most premier league "top" teams have been embarrassed this season, again. That is too small a sample size.
Someone should be to post the line-ups of the actual 1st and 5th placed teams in the league to show how the premier league is the bestest..
This is another Twigginater special along with "Teams play good football for only 5 or 6 games a season"
This happened?The OP is hilarious. It's starts with:
Then goes on to post some fifth placed teams - Spurs from five years ago (why?), Our line-up (uncomfortably sixth actually), Sevilla, Mainz - to prove how the premier league is better.
Then he doesn't want to compare CL/EL where the most premier league "top" teams have been embarrassed this season, again. That is too small a sample size.
Someone should be to post the line-ups of the actual 1st and 5th placed teams in the league to show how the premier league is the bestest..
This is another Twigginater special along with "Teams play good football for only 5 or 6 games a season"
I was looking for that thread the other day.
I actually was arguing in that thread that in the prem it's hard to play consistently well. Out of interest, how many times have Arsenal or Tottenham had great performances this season?
Yes once again taken out of context. I was arguing that teams like City and Arsenal won't have many great matches this year as the prem is so tight.... I mean.... I was right.
Amazing. So a team from La Liga can actually do nothing to better than Manchester United unless they are Real Madrid and Barcelona.Where do we think Griezman will play football next year folks?
Yeah, because they're not great teams.
Hopefully United. An immediate step down in terms of quality, but we are far more wealthy and can overtake Atletico if we spend well and are managed properly.
They can improve the quality of their players.
We are at a low ebb right now and plagued with injuries. I think with a full first 11 a two tie affair with Athletico would be close. You obviously think they'd wipe the floor with us.
Oh right.
Either way you'd have agreed with me in that argument then.
Interesting that a team in the quarters of the CL is not a great team.
Atletico have already done that, and have become a better team than us (easily) but you choose to ignore it.
I think a two legged tie between us and Atletico could be close because they aren't very attacking and don't hand out many thrashings. However, A) I'd expect them to win it and B) if we were in the same league they'd be at least 5 points ahead of us.