Film The Redcafe Movie review thread

dumbo said:
I think one point that the lists raise is the clear difference in the percieved quality of the films in each list, it's that curious and glaring discrepancy that I'm having a go at unravelling. The point I'm trying to make is that, for the most part, the films in the chart favoured by the females are not considered to be of the same quality as those in the male list. The directors are far less well known and the films are not usually recognised for their technical and artistic merit. The male picks are widely perceived to be "better" films. So is that perhaps because male dominated critics circles and audiences can't see the artistic merit in these other films (I think not), or is it because maybe females have crap taste (again I think not) - replies on Twitter and in this thread suggest the latter, albeit somewhat jokingly (?).

I'm simply saying that it seems to me that a reason worth considering, for why the women's list has fewer celebrated classics, might have something to do with the overall dearth of well made, artistic and accessible cinema that is made by and about women. Where is the female River Kwai, or the female Raging Bull? - not necessarily war or boxing themed fare but powerhouse, auteur cinema with a budget and distribution. Where is the female Scorsese, Kubrick, Kurosawa? They don't exist and I assume that is largely due to a lack of opportunity. Most of the great female directors, recognised for their craft and vision, have operated in the margins, with smaller budgets, making art house cinema for a smaller audience. You don't tend to have luxury, studio-backed female artists like the names above, instead you have grafting craftswomen like Varda, Reichardt, Denis.

It might also be that girls do have crap taste in films, or they don't care about cinema in the same nerdy way that blokes do, that's certainly not my personal experience though and I've not seen any convincing evidence to support that idea.

Frozen is great but if women are having to settle for Wonder Woman then that is a grave injustice that must be got to the bottom of. I want quality cinema to be accessible to everyone.

For a few Dollars more - Largely male cast, male protag, fights, guns violence, acclaimed (Male director, actors)
Paths of Glory - Largely male cast, male protag, battles, guns violence, masculine introspection, acclaimed (Male director, actors)
Das Boot - Largely male cast, male protag, battles, masculine introspection, acclaimed (Male director, actors)
Dangal - Not seen it
Rashomon - Largely male cast, male protag, violence, masculine introspection, acclaimed (Male director, actors)
Unforgiven - Largely male cast, male protag, fights, guns violence, masculine introspection, acclaimed (Male director, actors)
The Bridge On The River Kwai - Largely male cast, male protag, fights, guns violence, masculine introspection, acclaimed (Male director, actors)
Once Upon A Time In The West - Largely male cast, male protag, fights, guns violence, masculine introspection, acclaimed (Male director, actors)
The Thing - Largely male cast, male protag, fights, guns violence, masculine introspection, acclaimed (Male director, actors)

Fight me and change my mind.
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I think people are just missing the point here. Yes, sure we can all debate about the artistic attributes and merits of cinema but this is more an examination of the male and female psyche rather than the subjective opinions of a 90 minute film. Although the list was created based on the preferences of men and women, there are also other subtle and not so subtle nuances in demographic that would also yield similarly controversial results.

Why should women 'have to settle' for Wonder Woman? And why should the women's list have more 'celebrated classics' in it? And who says they are classics anyway? Women have the same access to films as everybody else. Are you saying that because the pool of black major players in film is even smaller than that of women that black people have less of a connection with cinema? At the end of the day, if a film is good it is good and will stand up to scrutiny from all sections of society and certain aspects of your demographic will skew your perspective, surely. It doesn't matter whether you are male or female, black or white, young or old, if the film connects with you great, if it doesn't move on.

Who is anyone to say that The Bridge on The River Kwai is a better film than Wonder Woman? People will look at a van Gogh or da Vinci and think it's crap and drool over a Banksy or they may turn their noses up at Mozart and Beethoven with their iPods full of Take That and Westlife. Does it really matter?

Looking at the male list, there are a lot of films in there that I would never touch with a barge pole again. Are they decent films? Maybe. Are they over-rated? Most definitely. You say where is the 'female River Kwai'? Do we really need one? In that era it was the men who went to war. And, well Hollywood have been trying that with the remakes as well and many have not worked. Do we also need an all-black Oceans 11 to draw in the people of colour?

Basically it's all down to the fact that men and women are wired differently. And before people jump on me, let's just accept that that is a fact and move on. There's a reason why the term 'chick-flick' was created. It may have slightly negative connotations but you get my point. The world of marketing is aware of these differences and you see it reflected in their ads every single day. You will find plenty of women who love action thrillers and slasher movies and plenty of guys who love rom-coms and chick-flicks.

So, at the end of the day that list is a bit of a pointless exercise and doesn''t really highlight anything of merit. If there were similar surveys carried out between young/old, black/white, European/Asian people for example we'd be having similar discussions.
 
RedPed said:
Basically it's all down to the fact that men and women are wired differently. And before people jump on me, let's just accept that that is a fact and move on.
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I do, but I wonder how much of that wiring (in this case, a propensity for chick-flicks) is actually down to nurture rather than nature.

As a related aside, look how limited is the world of a famous 'film for women' like Thelma and Louise: a road trip. Whoopee...Cinematic men conquer and travel the world; their female equivalents are obliged or conditioned to be content with the fleeting freedom of conquering a husband and the volume of a fuel tank.
 
U3.jpg
 
SteveJ said:
I do, but I wonder how much of that wiring (in this case, a propensity for chick-flicks) is actually down to nurture rather than nature.

As a related aside, look how limited is the world of a famous 'film for women' like Thelma and Louise: a road trip. Whoopee...Cinematic men conquer and travel the world; their female equivalents are obliged or conditioned to be content with the fleeting freedom of conquering a husband and the volume of a fuel tank.
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Absolutely.
Also, as previously pointed out, the actual ranked lists aren't that different in reality anyway.
 
dumbo said:
I think one point that the lists raise is the clear difference in the percieved quality of the films in each list, it's that curious and glaring discrepancy that I'm having a go at unravelling. The point I'm trying to make is that, for the most part, the films in the chart favoured by the females are not considered to be of the same quality as those in the male list. The directors are far less well known and the films are not usually recognised for their technical and artistic merit. The male picks are widely perceived to be "better" films. So is that perhaps because male dominated critics circles and audiences can't see the artistic merit in these other films (I think not), or is it because maybe females have crap taste (again I think not) - replies on Twitter and in this thread suggest the latter, albeit somewhat jokingly (?).

I'm simply saying that it seems to me that a reason worth considering, for why the women's list has fewer celebrated classics, might have something to do with the overall dearth of well made, artistic and accessible cinema that is made by and about women. Where is the female River Kwai, or the female Raging Bull? - not necessarily war or boxing themed fare but powerhouse, auteur cinema with a budget and distribution. Where is the female Scorsese, Kubrick, Kurosawa? They don't exist and I assume that is largely due to a lack of opportunity. Most of the great female directors, recognised for their craft and vision, have operated in the margins, with smaller budgets, making art house cinema for a smaller audience. You don't tend to have luxury, studio-backed female artists like the names above, instead you have grafting craftswomen like Varda, Reichardt, Denis.

It might also be that girls do have crap taste in films, or they don't care about cinema in the same nerdy way that blokes do, that's certainly not my personal experience though and I've not seen any convincing evidence to support that idea.

Frozen is great but if women are having to settle for Wonder Woman then that is a grave injustice that must be got to the bottom of. I want quality cinema to be accessible to everyone.

For a few Dollars more - Largely male cast, male protag, fights, guns violence, acclaimed (Male director, actors)
Paths of Glory - Largely male cast, male protag, battles, guns violence, masculine introspection, acclaimed (Male director, actors)
Das Boot - Largely male cast, male protag, battles, masculine introspection, acclaimed (Male director, actors)
Dangal - Not seen it
Rashomon - Largely male cast, male protag, violence, masculine introspection, acclaimed (Male director, actors)
Unforgiven - Largely male cast, male protag, fights, guns violence, masculine introspection, acclaimed (Male director, actors)
The Bridge On The River Kwai - Largely male cast, male protag, fights, guns violence, masculine introspection, acclaimed (Male director, actors)
Once Upon A Time In The West - Largely male cast, male protag, fights, guns violence, masculine introspection, acclaimed (Male director, actors)
The Thing - Largely male cast, male protag, fights, guns violence, masculine introspection, acclaimed (Male director, actors)

Fight me and change my mind.
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Good posts. That seems a good explanation.
There are some good movies in the womens list. Its just seems very odd for mediocrities like Wonder Woman to be rated so highly. But then again maybe i just dont get it and its a much better film than im giving it credit for.
Not that surprised they dont love the male list either, really. Theres probably a couple of questionable ones in there. Platoon is nothing special, though i guess position #176 isn't particularly high
 
caid said:
Good posts. That seems a good explanation.
There are some good movies in the womens list. Its just seems very odd for mediocrities like Wonder Woman to be rated so highly. But then again maybe i just dont get it and its a much better film than im giving it credit for.
Not that surprised they dont love the male list either, really. Theres probably a couple of questionable ones in there. Platoon is nothing special, though i guess position #176 isn't particularly high
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The list we are all discussing is not a preferential list though. It is a list seeking deliberately to explore the disparity between gender preferences. It is not seeking to rank the preferences of women and men, only to highlight their differences. So you say Wonder Woman is ranked highly.... well, it’s not really - it qualifies for the list only because men and women perceive it differently.
As I’ve said, I believe it would be more worthwhile to look at a list that considers films similarly received by men and women. What would these films have in common? Why would they be so well received by men and women? Would they still be overly ‘male’ as some have stated may be the case? Those, to me, are more interesting and potentially valuable questions to ask. But I suppose it never ends... do we stop at gender groupings or do we then explore racial/cultural etc groupings too? It’s also highly problematic to sort people into these groupings and assume that they would think similarly based only on their group identity... but that’s a different issue altogether.
 
jungledrums said:
The list we are all discussing is not a preferential list though. It is a list seeking deliberately to explore the disparity between gender preferences. It is not seeking to rank the preferences of women and men, only to highlight their differences. So you say Wonder Woman is ranked highly.... well, it’s not really - it qualifies for the list only because men and women perceive it differently.
As I’ve said, I believe it would be more worthwhile to look at a list that considers films similarly received by men and women. What would these films have in common? Why would they be so well received by men and women? Would they still be overly ‘male’ as some have stated may be the case? Those, to me, are more interesting and potentially valuable questions to ask. But I suppose it never ends... do we stop at gender groupings or do we then explore racial/cultural etc groupings too? It’s also highly problematic to sort people into these groupings and assume that they would think similarly based only on their group identity... but that’s a different issue altogether.
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Based on what? We don't have that specific qualitative data to make any assumptions like that. For what it's worth, I actually think that Wonder Woman was a great movie and certainly one of the better superhero movies to be released to date. I'm really looking forward to Wonder Woman 1984.

And to use the word 'disparity' you're kind of implying that one list is better than the other which in terms of looking at things subjectively, you can't really draw that type of conclusion.
 
jungledrums said:
The list we are all discussing is not a preferential list though. It is a list seeking deliberately to explore the disparity between gender preferences. It is not seeking to rank the preferences of women and men, only to highlight their differences. So you say Wonder Woman is ranked highly.... well, it’s not really - it qualifies for the list only because men and women perceive it differently.
As I’ve said, I believe it would be more worthwhile to look at a list that considers films similarly received by men and women. What would these films have in common? Why would they be so well received by men and women? Would they still be overly ‘male’ as some have stated may be the case? Those, to me, are more interesting and potentially valuable questions to ask. But I suppose it never ends... do we stop at gender groupings or do we then explore racial/cultural etc groupings too? It’s also highly problematic to sort people into these groupings and assume that they would think similarly based only on their group identity... but that’s a different issue altogether.
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It does show preferences though - Wonder Woman is ranked #196 which seems quite high to me, #700 or whatever men rate it as seems closer to the mark to me. Hunger Games at #83 seems pretty mad too.
 
caid said:
It does show preferences though - Wonder Woman is ranked #196 which seems quite high to me, #700 or whatever men rate it as seems closer to the mark to me. Hunger Games at #83 seems pretty mad too.
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It picks the biggest disparities so is selecting for variance between the sexes hugely exaggerating the differences. It shows selected preferences, when there are more similarities between the imdb lists by sex than there are significant variances.
 
The Limehouse Golem

A slightly hokey Hammer style horror which comprises a repeat of the Ratcliffe Highway murders while anticipating the Jack the Ripper murders. It’s based on a Peter Ackroyd novel. I found his “Hawksmoor” novel painful going and this adaptation of a similarly themed novel of his was only marginally better. At least tbe dialogue wasn’t written in cod-Pepys English.
 
RedPed said:
Based on what? We don't have that specific qualitative data to make any assumptions like that. For what it's worth, I actually think that Wonder Woman was a great movie and certainly one of the better superhero movies to be released to date. I'm really looking forward to Wonder Woman 1984.

And to use the word 'disparity' you're kind of implying that one list is better than the other which in terms of looking at things subjectively, you can't really draw that type of conclusion.
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I don’t understand your point. The list IS specific quantitative and qualitative data (it might not be sound data, but it is data nonetheless). How can you say we don’t have the data to make that assumption? The data is right there. The list seeks to answer the question of a lack of data by providing us with said data.

Or perhaps I should rephrase: the list was seeking to explore whether there is a difference in perception between male and female audiences, and it found that there is (to some degree).

Regarding your latter point, I disagree that ‘disparity’ always implies a rated (ie good/bad) comparison. Disparity quite literally means a difference between two or more things - you can have a disparity of perception, a disparity of taste and so on. I agree it’s often used to comment on inequalities etc, but that’s not the only way it’s used, and I wasn’t intending to use it to imply one list was better than the other.
 
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caid said:
It does show preferences though - Wonder Woman is ranked #196 which seems quite high to me, #700 or whatever men rate it as seems closer to the mark to me. Hunger Games at #83 seems pretty mad too.
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Well yes to some extent it shows preferences, but they’re preferences within a specific set of rules - by default, the list is only interested in, and therefore will only show, the extremes. @Fingeredmouse said it well.
 
MoskvaRed said:
The Limehouse Golem

A slightly hokey Hammer style horror which comprises a repeat of the Ratcliffe Highway murders while anticipating the Jack the Ripper murders. It’s based on a Peter Ackroyd novel. I found his “Hawksmoor” novel painful going and this adaptation of a similarly themed novel of his was only marginally better. At least tbe dialogue wasn’t written in cod-Pepys English.
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Yeah, it's a bit forgettable.

Regarding Ackroyd's novels: with some books, it's a matter of whether the atmosphere the author creates captivates the reader (rather than the actual quality of the story); I find this to be the case with his fiction books, so Hawksmoor (and Dan Leno etc) works for me even if it's not the best or best-written story.
 
I'm not surprised women don't like Unforgiven, all the female characters are prostitutes and seen as objects that men own

It's a fun movie though aside from all that
 
Hackman is strangely good at playing villains. Strange because he doesn't really have the stereotypical looks of a movie villain (i.e. either scary-looking or, as is sometimes the case, bland or deceptively commonplace-looking). Even in bizarre-but-flashy trash like Prime Cut he still made his presence felt.
 
SteveJ said:
Yeah, it's a bit forgettable.

Regarding Ackroyd's novels: with some books, it's a matter of whether the atmosphere the author creates captivates the reader (rather than the actual quality of the story); I find this to be the case with his fiction books, so Hawksmoor (and Dan Leno etc) works for me even if it's not the best or best-written story.
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“Hawksmoor” was an interesting concept - I just found it hard work to get through it. It may have worked better as a short story or novella. The graphic novel “From Hell” covered similar ground in a more page-turning style.
 
The Platform:

A multi levelled prison where a platform full of food starts at the top and makes its way down, leaving less and less food for the people further down.

Interesting concept, but ultimately a bit meh.
 
Bill.s.preston said:
The Platform:

A multi levelled prison where a platform full of food starts at the top and makes its way down, leaving less and less food for the people further down.

Interesting concept, but ultimately a bit meh.
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Yeah I really liked what was going on. But the ending was like “that’s it?”
 
Men in Black International

So the main thing I took from this film is not being sure if Hemsworth and Thompson don't have as good chmeistry as that Thor film suggested, or if it's just that this film was so bad that there was nothing they could do about it.

Another thing is why would the bad guy who wanted his race to take over the planet, deliberately bring the one weapon that could stop them, to the planet, in order to stop anyone on the planet getting it? This had a very "I'm going to stop Megatron getting the cube by shoving it in his chest" vibe to it

3/10
 
noodlehair said:
Men in Black International

So the main thing I took from this film is not being sure if Hemsworth and Thompson don't have as good chmeistry as that Thor film suggested, or if it's just that this film was so bad that there was nothing they could do about it.

Another thing is why would the bad guy who wanted his race to take over the planet, deliberately bring the one weapon that could stop them, to the planet, in order to stop anyone on the planet getting it? This had a very "I'm going to stop Megatron getting the cube by shoving it in his chest" vibe to it

3/10
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The first 2 men in black films were bad. This wasn't even good enough to be called bad.
 
Day of the Jackal (1973)

I saw that this is on this week but didn't want to wait as I have a bit of a thing for Europe in the 70's at the moment. This is chock full of great locations, cool cars, saucy French bints, tough-looking French rozzers and a long list of great character actors. Edward Fox is great as The Jackal as he isn't a big name who overshadows the anonymity of the lead role. He portrays menace, charm, cunning, humour and ruthlessness with ease and is almost an anti-hero. I like the head cop too as a quietly efficient civil servant doing his duty. The climax is genuinely thrilling and I like that you lose sight of Fox for a while and are like the cop in that you have no idea how he has planned to execute the hit.

I think I saw the remake but can't recall a single thing about it. This is a solid 8/10 for me.

Can anybody recommend me any other good 70's films set in Europe that show a lot of locations and people so that you get the vibe of the time. I don't want stylized depictions like a James Bond film. I like the documentary feel so you get to see just how cool it was back then.
 
Grinner said:
Day of the Jackal (1973)

I saw that this is on this week but didn't want to wait as I have a bit of a thing for Europe in the 70's at the moment. This is chock full of great locations, cool cars, saucy French bints, tough-looking French rozzers and a long list of great character actors. Edward Fox is great as The Jackal as he isn't a big name who overshadows the anonymity of the lead role. He portrays menace, charm, cunning, humour and ruthlessness with ease and is almost an anti-hero. I like the head cop too as a quietly efficient civil servant doing his duty. The climax is genuinely thrilling and I like that you lose sight of Fox for a while and are like the cop in that you have no idea how he has planned to execute the hit.

I think I saw the remake but can't recall a single thing about it. This is a solid 8/10 for me.

Can anybody recommend me any other good 70's films set in Europe that show a lot of locations and people so that you get the vibe of the time. I don't want stylized depictions like a James Bond film. I like the documentary feel so you get to see just how cool it was back then.
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I watched this a while ago. Unfortunately I found it a bit boring.
 
Crawl

So watched this without knowing anything about it at all (would advise you do the same) and had a bit of a surprise when it came to what the real threat was. Not just your normal disaster movie as a hidden twist presents itself as things unfold.

With regards to the film itself there's nothing outstanding about it and it's not huge budget or all star. I'd give it 6/10 (but watch it cold and enjoy the twist)
 
Grinner said:
Can anybody recommend me any other good 70's films set in Europe that show a lot of locations and people so that you get the vibe of the time. I don't want stylized depictions like a James Bond film. I like the documentary feel so you get to see just how cool it was back then.
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Much contemporary relevance.
 
The Vast Of The Night
In the twilight of the 1950s, on one fateful night in New Mexico, young switchboard operator Fay and charismatic radio DJ Everett discover a strange audio frequency that could change their small town and the future forever. The opening scene was annoying as feck but after that, there's a lot to enjoy. Great camera work, good performances by the two leads, a nice mystery brewing underneath. Done a lot on a low budget and is an interesting movie by a debut director/writers combo. I hoped the end would subvert my expectations but regardless, was a fun ride 7/10
 
Grinner said:
Can anybody recommend me any other good 70's films set in Europe that show a lot of locations and people so that you get the vibe of the time. I don't want stylized depictions like a James Bond film. I like the documentary feel so you get to see just how cool it was back then.
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Maybe not quite what you're looking for, but the second Mesrine film is set in 70s France and is a cool film.
 
I watched Do the Right Thing tonight, for, well obvious reasons.

It stands up so well, as if it’s a masterpiece made for exactly this point in time. Though tragically, it’s message is just as strong only because it’s 30 years later and America has made no progress to help the oppression of its minorities.

For those who haven’t seen it, it’s an early Spike Lee film (surely his best), set in a multicultural neighbourhood in Brooklyn. On the hottest day of summer, tensions rise with the heat, as differences between the ethnic groups in the area come to a head. Everything about this is great; a fantastic cast of character actors, a classic soundtrack, the tragic ending, and the lack of clarity over whether Mookie did actually ‘do the right thing’*.

* Though I believe Spike Lee takes offence at this debate, saying that the riot is not the incident that viewers should focus on, it’s the death of a young black man. I come away from the film Sad for Sal and angry for Raheem. Is that the wrong? Surely the former should pale in comparison to the latter? Am I failing if I don’t see it in that way? Enough babbling. Great movie.
 
Stuber
A detective recruits his Uber driver into an unexpected night of adventure. I thought Dave Bautista was ok in this and there were some funny moments but Kumail Nanjani was too annoying, moreso because of his character and as the film progressed, it became less and less funny. In the end, just wanted it to end 4/10
 
Bill.s.preston said:
The Platform:

A multi levelled prison where a platform full of food starts at the top and makes its way down, leaving less and less food for the people further down.

Interesting concept, but ultimately a bit meh.
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It's like someone just came up with a metaphor for society and the poor and decided to make a film about it but soon realised there wasn't really anywhere else to go with it.
 
Solius said:
It's like someone just came up with a metaphor for society and the poor and decided to make a film about it but soon realised there wasn't really anywhere else to go with it.
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Not a bad take on it.
 
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