The RedCafe Boxing Thread

Fortitude said:
The waffling he keeps doing when given the mic post-fight these days is really strange.

By trying to be open and insightful he's letting too many unstructured thoughts slip, which comes in a way that he's ironically trying his best to avoid.
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Yeah I don't think he needs a sports psychologist, I think he needs a psychologist full stop. Inside his head still seems to be a weird place.

I think Carl Froch and Dillian Whyte nailed it in their analysis - if you don't want to fight you should stop. You've earned over £100m so why do you keep talking about money? It's a dangerous sport and money can't be the only motivator at that level, you need to be enjoying the sport as well and have your mind fully present while you box.
 
Fortitude said:
The waffling he keeps doing when given the mic post-fight these days is really strange.

By trying to be open and insightful he's letting too many unstructured thoughts slip, which comes in a way that he's ironically trying his best to avoid.
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He comes across as very fragile mentally so I don’t want to dig him out too much. His demeanour in the build up to a fight is completely different to how he acts during and post bout.

He always looks relieved when a fight has finished whether he’s won or lost like he doesn’t really want to be there.

Fury would verbally tear him to pieces if that fight ever got made.
 
Joshua believed his own hype, kikcstarted through a controversial win at London 2012 and followed on with the smoothest parh to stardom, even after the Ruiz’s disaster, and truly until Usyk destroyed him twice. Now he is a different man, a different fighter as well… a journeyman, really, finding himself in a place not chosen by him. He better does one last fight with a similar, second class, profile and then retires. No shame and a very good career.
 
Weird how one loss can completely change a fighter. He was so close to having Ruiz out of there too and would’ve knocked out 99% of other boxers with some of those hits.
Ruiz incredible chin and the subsequent loss changed him forever. Can’t see him ever being the Joshua again who just goes right through people. Shame, was great to watch at his best.
 
Dan_F said:
I don’t really see anything wrong with him becoming a massive draw after the Wlad fight. It was exciting, AJ was exciting, knocking everyone out, gold medal at London. There was a lot to market for sure, but also, Fury had none of that.

When a British fighter gets to heavyweight champion, it is always going to be the same. Best thing is just ignore the casuals if their opinions bother you that much. If I saw anyone claiming AJ to be one of the best ever, that would be an instant sign that I have no interest in engaging with them about boxing :lol:
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I'm only going off what I heard after AJ was winning and looking good. I'm not sure where you live but in Manchester after AJ beat a 42 year old Wlad I heard from semi pro boxers, 'casuals', general boxing fans, you name it proclaim that AJ is one of the greatest HW.

Anyway, what are casuals? I've seen this term so many times on twitter from accounts that have profile pictures of boxer's or UFC fighters.
 
predator said:
I'm only going off what I heard after AJ was winning and looking good. I'm not sure where you live but in Manchester after AJ beat a 42 year old Wlad I heard from semi pro boxers, 'casuals', general boxing fans, you name it proclaim that AJ is one of the greatest HW.

Anyway, what are casuals? I've seen this term so many times on twitter from accounts that have profile pictures of boxer's or UFC fighters.
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People that think AJ is one of best ever? People who if you showed them a picture line up of the best ten heavyweights ever, would only pick out Tyson and Ali. It’s probably a shit term to use, but I’m not even sure prime Wlad gets in the top 10, so AJ beating him at 42 doesn’t get him anywhere near the elite. And that was the case at the time. Maybe it was more thinking about the potential that he could achieve after that fight.

On AJ, I previously backed him (probably just bias) to beat Fury so what do I know, but since the Ruiz fights, it’s quite clear that he hasn’t been able to improve his deficiencies enough. Doesn’t mean he’s shit, and he usually provides good entertainment.
 
Just so people are aware of the payscale differences with the Saudi's involved:

In an interview with Fight Hub TV, Arum explained how the fight could still be made in the latter part of the year, even opening the possibility of Joshua being offered the chance to face Fury. He said: “I think Usyk knows that he has to fight Frank's (Warren) fighter, Dubois, which it isn’t an easy fight but Usyk should win. And I think Tyson might look to fight Joshua...if they both win (Fury and Usyk) I think they’ll revisit the fight for late November, December.”

Arum continued by adding that the delayed fight is down to the construction of a new stadium to host the fight in Saudi Arabia, one which would allow the fighters to negotiate an even more lucrative purse for the contest.




Arum added: “Because you’re Usyk and you can make say $15M fighting Fury — which is a good number — but if you go another route and you fight Fury in the winter in Saudi, you can make $50-60M. Now that’s a big difference, right? So there’s not real impetus to get the deal done because everybody is looking at greener pastures.

“If there was no Saudi possibility we would’ve made this fight in three days. But that was always the cloud hovering over the negotiations, and you can’t blame the fighters. You really can’t.

“The Saudis weren’t anxious to do the fight except in the winter because they’re building a stadium for the fight. So, you know, it is what it is. But I don’t fault either fighter.”

There has not been an undisputed heavyweight world champion since Lennox Lewis in 1999 and with talks having looked to have fallen through, Arum's latest comments provide hope for the prospect of that happening in the not too distant future.

https://www.manchestereveningnews.c...n=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

When you're talking that difference in potential earnings, there's no chance a fight is going to be made based on ego or even outcome in the ring.

This is about cold, hard cash.
 
Yeah, the Saudi involvement has ruined the boxing scene in terms of cash but if it wasn’t them stepping up then someone else would have.
 
predator said:
When will people realise that AJ isn't that good and never really was when discussing HW greats?

Fair play to matchroom for how they promoted him and convinced a lot of folk that he was an all time great.

To think a few years ago Hearn and Co were so arrogant in thinking they had the golden boy of British boxing.

Fury would outbox AJ within 5 rounds but we won't see that fight happen until its financially at its dying death. Same thing happened with Pac and Floyd.

Which reminds me why I've lost so much interest in boxing for a good decade and have since enjoyed UFC - a combat sport where promoters don't exist and don't dictate who fights each other.
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Who ever discussed AJ in the context of HW greats? This was never a thing.

Also how can you 'outbox' someone in 5 rounds?
 
SilentWitness said:
Yeah, the Saudi involvement has ruined the boxing scene in terms of cash but if it wasn’t them stepping up then someone else would have.
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Boxing has been pretty fecking shite for a long, long time from a structural point of view. It's only another nail in the coffin and a natural step for a sport that is all about businessmen as architects of commercial opportunities for themselves and a lack of proper oversight for the good of the sport as a whole.

When you actually get a competitive fight and a decent undercard then there's nothing quite like a night of boxing. But the ratio of good matches to shitfests with someone 1/20 on is pathetic. The product for fans gets worse. Scrolling down oddschecker makes me genuinely depressed at times. So I guess..Saudi Arabia..why not.
 
DannyCAFC said:
Who ever discussed AJ in the context of HW greats? This was never a thing.

Also how can you 'outbox' someone in 5 rounds?
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A lot of people I know said it. And these range from people who don't watch the sport, to people who do, to a few who actually box. Some of these train at a famous gym in Hattersley.

And to answer your question of how someone can outbox someone in 5 rounds - basically they can dominate them within 5 rounds with or without a TKO or KO. It's not exactly quantum mechanics.
 
Abraxas said:
Boxing has been pretty fecking shite for a long, long time from a structural point of view. It's only another nail in the coffin and a natural step for a sport that is all about businessmen as architects of commercial opportunities for themselves and a lack of proper oversight for the good of the sport as a whole.

When you actually get a competitive fight and a decent undercard then there's nothing quite like a night of boxing. But the ratio of good matches to shitfests with someone 1/20 on is pathetic. The product for fans gets worse. Scrolling down oddschecker makes me genuinely depressed at times. So I guess..Saudi Arabia..why not.
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It’s wild looking down b365 at boxing odds. 8/1 is about the shortest the underdog tends to get. Compare it to ufc and the balance is so much more even
 
predator said:
A lot of people I know said it. And these range from people who don't watch the sport, to people who do, to a few who actually box. Some of these train at a famous gym in Hattersley.

And to answer your question of how someone can outbox someone in 5 rounds - basically they can dominate them within 5 rounds with or without a TKO or KO. It's not exactly quantum mechanics.
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Cool - so considering in context we're talking about a 12 round title fight here, what happens in the next 7 then?

It's not quantum mechanics, no. Just a very weird turn of phrase for anybody who follows the sport to use.
 
T00lsh3d said:
Prediction?
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JJ should win really, shouldn't he? The other fella looked a big tough lump against Hrgovic but I think Joyce is a lot tougher than Hrgovic. But it should be a genuine slugfest at some point so you never know. I just think if JJ decides to use his length and boxing ability he can make this easy whereas I'm not sure what Zhang can do except plod forward and swing.
 
Scratch my shit analysis, Zhang looks slick. JJ has to be careful here. Maybe keep it safe and out grind this guy and exploit his stamina.
 
It’s like watching a kid who’s never fought a southpaw before, like he has no idea what to do with him
 
T00lsh3d said:
It’s like watching a kid who’s never fought a southpaw before, like he has no idea what to do with him
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Looks ridiculously open. Will do well to just keep his hands up and wait for this guy to slow down. He's bound to. He's 280lbs!
 
Zhang's left is great. Seriously quick for a man that size. JJ starting to get into his plodding rhythm though. Still open as feck though.
 
Defending punches with your face never works.

Joyce was quicker in a couple of recent fights I'd seen of him, he was back to his slow ponderous self tonight when he needed to be on his toes.
 
Fair play to Zhang. Brilliant performance. I guess JJ's defence finally caught up. The chin might be tough enough but his face fell apart.
 
Withnail said:
I've not seen him fight before but to me it didn't seem like he was putting as much into his punches as he could have. He didn't look like hurting Zhang at all.
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That's pretty much how his punches always look in fairness. Arm punching. He's more of a grinder than a punishing hitter. He probably lost a bit of energy and snap from getting rocked too.
 
Wow. I was fully on the Joyce train. Utterly dismantled tonight. Well done Zhang. Perhaps Joe bite too much than he could chew tonight with Zhang, someone who could go toe to toe with him. That left landed every time Zhang through it.
 
Did he even prepare for fighting that guy or Warren just sold him as a Chinese lump from nowhere?
 
Didn’t seem like there was any power behind anything Joyce did. Distinctly average. Nowhere near top tier. Chisora probably best fight out there for him.
 
That zhang threw a serious fast heavy left with ease, Joyce just throwing meaningless fanny punches never even looked like hurting him
 
Shows how bad Parker is too. A guy that kept getting built up into a contender in big fights when he was nothing but extremely mediocre. Joyce destroyed him!

I think Joyce is still a pretty tough guy, if his face held up be would have still been in there pressing the fight down the stretch. Could still make some exciting matchups. Whyte would be great for example. It's knocked his title aspirations well back though. Or maybe not knowing boxing...the more vulnerable you look the more likely you are...see Dubois.
 
Styles make fights. Joyce still beats the majority of heavyweights out there for me. I think he just faced his kryptonite tonight.
 
No coming back from that for Joyce. All that was missing was Mo Sizlack flying in on a fan to rescue him.
 
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