The RedCafe Boxing Thread

[Deery]

I don't actually remember him as a boxer, just as a character on Buster Douglas Boxing on the Megadrive back in the day.

As an aside. If Fury did beat AJ or Usyk it would cement his reputation as best of his generation, but given both are considered good rather than great, would it really add that much to where Fury is considered in the all-time pantheon? Feels like a major risk imbalanced - he reputation takes a big hit if he lost, but won't gain anywhere near as much if he won.

I think Fury will eventually take that fight the money will be astronomical and he’s looking as good as ever.

I fear Joshua is just a shadow of himself and Usyk would have trouble with a heavyweight with fast hands so favour Fury , but I get what you’re saying bowing out now when people are saying you’re the goat is a good idea.

 

[fergosaurus]

I think he's nailed on to fight the winner of Usyk-Joshua. Can't see him turning down the chance to become the first undisputed HW champion since Lennox when he'll be a clear favourite against either of those guys.

 

[Fracture90]

Yup, reckon he'll want to fight the winner of Joshua vs. Usyk. The lure of being an undisputed and undefeated HW will be too great to ignore.

That being said, i can see him stay retired for a tad longer in case Joshua wins the rematch and it goes on to become a trilogy bout with Usyk.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Great Fury. Just a class above. He was in complete control and finished like a champ. So much to like about him.

I hope (and expect) it’s not his last fight. Usyk will beat Joshua and he’ll go for all the marbles. If he wins - big if - Usyk brings a lot of problems and I’ll get more into that matchup later- then there’s always Joshu for tons of money.

It will take a brave man to bet on Fury ever losing though, I’ll say that. He’s the total package.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

When would Fury have to “relinquish” his titles?

How long can he “hold” them, while supposedly retiring?

 

[Yorkeontop]

I think folks are right in saying Fury's resume takes him out of the greatest conversation, but he'd be a legit threat against any HW in history.

 

[Withnail]

When would Fury have to “relinquish” his titles?

How long can he “hold” them, while supposedly retiring?

If you retire you're no longer a boxer and can't defend them. Of course that means you've to give them up.

 

[Gringo]

I don't think he's retiring. You probably say that after every grueling camp wanting to never do it again. The money for a unification fight against winner of Aj Usyk is too big to turn down.

 

[pauldyson1uk]

I am not a huge fan of Fury, but last night he was decent , took some decent punches and gave out more.
I live near the gym he started and know one of his trainers.
I don't think he will retire, the pull of being undisputed HW champ, will be too much to resist.

 

[Red the Bear]

I wouldn't mind if he really choose to retire (and he did say it before) but it would be really nice if him and usyk have a go at it , both are clearly the best of their generation and level above the rest so that fight will finally give us an undisputed champ after so long and will crown who's the best of the rest.
It would be very nice to have it happen in old Trafford as well knowing fury's allegiance.
I like both of them so wish them both well.

 

[Summit]

I wouldn't mind if he really choose to retire (and he did say it before) but it would be really nice if him and usyk have a go at it , both are clearly the best of their generation and level above the rest so that fight will finally give us an undisputed champ after so long and will crown who's the best of the rest.
It would be very nice to have it happen in old Trafford as well knowing fury's allegiance.
I like both of them so wish them both well.

There is always someone new that pops on the scene and the same would be said if fury won said fight.

 

[Red_toad]

Have we heard from Dillian since the fight ended? Looking very much like a sore loser, I wonder what he'll do next?

 

[Red the Bear]

Also do we have a clear date on Joshua/usyk 2?
Usyk is the easy favorite going into that match( I rate him very highly so had him as a favorite going into the first one as well), but with the recent unfortunate circumstances going on in his homeland I wonder if he might be put off by that.

 

[Red the Bear]

There is always someone new that pops on the scene and the same would be said if fury won said fight.

Not really, heavyweight quality has been abysmal since the 90s , klitchkos aside we haven't had many all time great heavy boxers , I think fury is the first one since them who deserves that classification . looking at the fights themselves its clear who the best are , and while usyk made his name in cruiserweight, his skillset sets him above all else.

 

[Red Rash]

I wouldn't necessarily say Fury is a GOAT but I think he would be problematic for any other heavyweight in history.

I'm not a boxing expert by any means but when you think of some of the big name heavyweights during history:

Muhammed Ali - Fury is much longer than him and would have a huge height and weight advantage

Mike Tyson - Same issue as Ali. Although Tyson fought some big heavyweights he probably didn't fight anyone with the combination of size and movement as Fury

Frank Bruno / Lennox Lewis - both big powerful boxers but also not the most mobile so would probably struggle against Fury

Klitschko / Wilder- already beat both of them

I think ultimately Fury has an Unorthodox style and a combination of movement and skill thay isn't usually seen from a fighter as big as he is (in fact there are very few fighters ever at his size)

 

[flameinthesun]

Gotta say the one thing I like about Fury is he doesn't seem to dodge anybody. The one thing that put me off AJ is all the games his team plays.

 

[Red the Bear]

I wouldn't necessarily say Fury is a GOAT but I think he would be problematic for any other heavyweight in history.

I'm not a boxing expert by any means but when you think of some of the big name heavyweights during history:

Muhammed Ali - Fury is much longer than him and would have a huge height and weight advantage

Mike Tyson - Same issue as Ali. Although Tyson fought some big heavyweights he probably didn't fight anyone with the combination of size and movement as Fury

Frank Bruno / Lennox Lewis - both big powerful boxers but also not the most mobile so would probably struggle against Fury

Klitschko / Wilder- already beat both of them

I think ultimately Fury has an Unorthodox style and a combination of movement and skill thay isn't usually seen from a fighter as big as he is (in fact there are very few fighters ever at his size)

He doesn't really belong in there with the rest.
But yeah I agree with your point, I don't think he beats all of them but he definitely is one of the stronger h2h boxers of all time, shame his resume isn't as good.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

If you retire you're no longer a boxer and can't defend them. Of course that means you've to give them up.

I get that - but how long can he stay in the stage of “I’m likely going to retire” without formally relinquishing the belts?

How long is it until the associations tell him “So you retiring yet? We need to book some fights for the relinquished titles if that’s the case” etc.

 

[RedDevilRoshi]

I think he's nailed on to fight the winner of Usyk-Joshua. Can't see him turning down the chance to become the first undisputed HW champion since Lennox when he'll be a clear favourite against either of those guys.

If AJ wins the rematch then I won’t be surprised if a trilogy fight between AJ & Usyk has already been agreed before a potential unification bout. If Usyk wins, then I think Fury vs Usyk will happen.

 

[Withnail]

I get that - but how long can he stay in the stage of “I’m likely going to retire” without formally relinquishing the belts?

How long is it until the associations tell him “So you retiring yet? We need to book some fights for the relinquished titles if that’s the case” etc.

Oh I see. Someone else would have to answer about the time-frame but you have to fight the mandatory challenger as set by the governing body in order to keep the belt.

Fury was stripped of the IBF 10 days after winning it (He so won the WBO/WBA) from Klitschko as they had a rematch clause in the contract so he had to refuse the mandatory defence.

 

[Regulus Arcturus Black]

I'm not a boxing expert by any means but when you think of some of the big name heavyweights during history:

Muhammed Ali
Mike Tyson
Frank Bruno / Lennox Lewis -
Klitschko / Wilder

No shit you’re not if these are the best names you can produce through history, fecking Frank Bruno and Wilder?

 

[fergies coat]

I wouldn't necessarily say Fury is a GOAT but I think he would be problematic for any other heavyweight in history.

I'm not a boxing expert by any means but when you think of some of the big name heavyweights during history:

Muhammed Ali - Fury is much longer than him and would have a huge height and weight advantage

Mike Tyson - Same issue as Ali. Although Tyson fought some big heavyweights he probably didn't fight anyone with the combination of size and movement as Fury

Frank Bruno / Lennox Lewis - both big powerful boxers but also not the most mobile so would probably struggle against Fury

Klitschko / Wilder- already beat both of them

I think ultimately Fury has an Unorthodox style and a combination of movement and skill thay isn't usually seen from a fighter as big as he is (in fact there are very few fighters ever at his size)

The Lewis fight would of been great. He had a great Jab, massive right hand and a vicious uppercut. There's no way he'd bully Lewis like he did Wilder, and he wouldn't jab his head of like he did Whyte.

 

[Red Rash]

No shit you’re not if these are the best names you can produce through history, fecking Frank Bruno and Wilder?

I did say "big name heavyweights" and not "best heavyweights". I included Bruno because he was a big name, good fighter if not world class and British so I thought if Fury was in the same era there would definitely be calls for a fight between the two.

Wilder was undefeated until not long ago and seen as one of the heaviest punchers of all time. Again there was a lot of calls for that fight for years before it happened

 

[Fortitude]

I think people need to understand being the ‘best of this generation’ has no value; it’s not even a decent era let alone a golden one like the 90’s and 70’s were. None of those fighting now sans Fury would break top 10 of the 90’s or 70’s and would have big trouble breaking top 5 in the 80’s. The 60’s and 50’s blur lines because of the weight classes as a number of those guys would be cruisers now, but on a technical level, again only Tyson is getting a sniff. Usyk doesn’t register until he has more H/W fights, as he has been, he’d be right in the thick of it with absolute monsters of the 50’s and 60’s; it would not be the same for him then as now because he wouldn’t have the technical gulf in class.

Fury is a very interesting freak to put up against anyone in the HW division through history simply because there’s never been anything like him to measure the past greats by. Not a single one of them have had a nimble 20st+, 6’9(!) weighing down on them. Not to say that’s decisive given some of the greatest uppercutters ever are in that mix and would gladly ball up with Fury to tee him up to take his head off on the inside.
Still, in terms of resume/CV, it’s literally impossible for him to break top 5 of all time. Your opposition determines that as well as your title defences and ability. That’s why the golden eras are untouchable as you have multiple monsters who would have been champions outside of the gladiatorial arena they were unfortunate to come up in.

 

[Red the Bear]

I think people need to understand being the ‘best of this generation’ has no value; it’s not even a decent era let alone a golden one like the 90’s and 70’s were. None of those fighting now sans Fury would break top 10 of the 90’s or 70’s and would have big trouble breaking top 5 in the 80’s. The 60’s and 50’s blur lines because of the weight classes as a number of those guys would be cruisers now, but on a technical level, again only Tyson is getting a sniff. Usyk doesn’t register until he has more H/W fights, as he has been, he’d be right in the thick of it with absolute monsters of the 50’s and 60’s; it would not be the same for him then as now because he wouldn’t have the technical gulf in class.

Fury is a very interesting freak to put up against anyone in the HW division through history simply because there’s never been anything like him to measure the past greats by. Not a single one of them have had a nimble 20st+, 6’9(!) weighing down on them. Not to say that’s decisive given some of the greatest uppercutters ever are in that mix and would gladly ball up with Fury to tee him up to take his head off on the inside.
Still, in terms of resume/CV, it’s literally impossible for him to break top 5 of all time. Your opposition determines that as well as your title defences and ability. That’s why the golden eras are untouchable as you have multiple monsters who would have been champions outside of the gladiatorial arena they were unfortunate to come up in.

Those eras fascinate me, the heavies actually got smaller compared to the previous eras back then , its also the first era where we have quality footage off ( we have some from the earlier eras but the quality is so so).
Anyway the skill of them boxers was off the charts in the lower divisions, guys like Archie Moore and Edward Charles were a joy to watch, but then they couldn't really crack it in heavyweight against rocky.
Fascinating era.

 

[ThierryFabregas]

The Lewis fight would of been great. He had a great Jab, massive right hand and a vicious uppercut. There's no way he'd bully Lewis like he did Wilder, and he wouldn't jab his head of like he did Whyte.

Lewis would still struggle a bit to get to him. Lewis was past his best against Vitali but he was getting outboxed handily. Fury is taller, longer arms and has better footwork than Vitali

 

[Kazi]

Have we heard from Dillian since the fight ended? Looking very much like a sore loser, I wonder what he'll do next?

 

[Kazi]

Delusional

 

[SuperiorXI]

Absolutely zero point in a rematch, it was clear who was the superior boxer on the night. Fury is levels above Dillian.

I don't think we'll see Fury again... I wonder if he can be tempted to fight AJ.

 

[lefty_jakobz]

I think if AJ somehow wins the rematch against Usyk, there will probably be a third fight at which point Fury will probably retire. If Usyk wins then the unification match is on. Not a given Fury wins that fight though (I think he will beat Usyk personally) as Usyk is probably the only one who could shock Fury if Fury has an off night.

 

[Red the Bear]

Hopefully we get a fury /usyk match up. As great as klitchkos were we never really got them fighting the best opponent available due to them being brothers .
If this match up happens it'll be the first time since the days of Lewis were the very best have a go at it.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Whyte now claiming the push finished him as his head hit the floor but his head didn’t even hit the floor. He’s delusional. Always was hard to like for me.

 

[Welsh Wonder]

Whyte now claiming the push finished him as his head hit the floor but his head didn’t even hit the floor. He’s delusional. Always was hard to like for me.

He's lucky he had a push rather than a left hook on his way back

 

[pascell]

Hopefully we get a fury /tyson match up. As great as klitchkos were we never really got them fighting the best opponent available due to them being brothers .
If this match up happens it'll be the first time since the days of Lewis were the very best have a go at it.

Think Mike Tyson is a bit too old to go at it for 12 rounds.

 

[Red the Bear]

Think Mike Tyson is a bit too old to go at it for 12 rounds.

My bad, meant to write usyk , was probably too sleep deprived to notice the mistake.
Mike would probably have a hard time reaching his ear though

 

[pascell]

My bad, meant to write usyk , was probably too sleep deprived to notice the mistake.
Mike would probably have a hard time reaching his ear though

yeah fury/usyk is the fight I want to see too.

I don't think Fury would stick around if AJ beat Usyk as they'd make a trilogy fight no doubt, although I think Usyk beats AJ in the 2nd fight.

 

[Red the Bear]

yeah fury/usyk is the fight I want to see too.

I don't think Fury would stick around if AJ beat Usyk as they'd make a trilogy fight no doubt, although I think Usyk beats AJ in the 2nd fight.

Yeah I have usyk as the favorite too (to be fair i did so in the first fight as well as I rate him very favorably so doesn't say much).
Fury is a colorful character so even though i think he's just bulshiting and waiting for the unification fight he might actually stay true to his word so there is that.
Anyway we haven't had an undisputed champ for so long and the dynamics between the two are very exciting (both are fun genuine characters as well) so I feel boxing needs this match, hope it happens.

 

[pascell]

Yeah I have usyk as the favorite too (to be fair i did so in the first fight as well as I rate him very favorably so doesn't say much).
Fury is a colorful character so even though i think he's just bulshiting and waiting for the unification fight he might actually stay true to his word so there is that.
Anyway we haven't had an undisputed champ for so long and the dynamics between the two are very exciting (both are fun genuine characters as well) so I feel boxing needs this match, hope it happens.

I feel that if Usyk wins the rematch, Fury will stick around. If AJ loses and it turns into a trilogy, then Fury will probably retire as he'll likely have a mandatory he'll have to fight.

Like you say, for boxing the Usyk vs Fury is the fight it needs.

 

[DannyCAFC]

I feel that if Usyk wins the rematch, Fury will stick around. If AJ loses and it turns into a trilogy, then Fury will probably retire as he'll likely have a mandatory he'll have to fight.

Like you say, for boxing the Usyk vs Fury is the fight it needs.

I don't think a mandatory will come in to it personally. Technically doesn't have to make one until April 2023, AJ-Usyk 2 is apparently happening in July. More than enough time to fit a trilogy fight in still if needed.

There's also the fact the WBC like all organisations will bend the rules how they see fit. You only have to look at how Fury walked in to a shot at Wilder (1st fight) ahead of Whyte for evidence of that.

 

[GDaly95]

So cool that Katie Taylor (and Serrano) have sold out Madison Square Garden this weekend.

Fun little anecdote on that front actually.

I'm from the same town as Katie Taylor and when I was young I trained down in her dad Pete's gym, nice little spot down by the harbour.

Anyway, the first few weeks I was only allowed to do cardio. No combat action. Bit annoying but fair enough I thought, suppose he's just testing my patience.

Eventually I was allowed to partake in sparring but to my dismay, he paired me off against a girl (not Katie). What's this codswollop? I thought. I was embarrassed that I had to go in there against some measly girl.

Anyway, she beat the shit out of me and I never went back.

Best of luck to Katie this weekend.