The RedCafe Boxing Thread

RedFish said:


He's lost it.:wenger:
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Bit harsh from Joshua but he is right in the sense that Lewis has always kind of had a hardon for him. Lewis no doubt felt resentment for how much politics kept him out and how they worked in Joshua’s favor and Lewis definitely doesn’t want to be upstaged (in British terms) and was not as popular with the public. He deserves respect though as he’s a great fighter who’s been there and done it.

Mayweather is that way too. He wants nobody to shine or be great even now he craves the spotlight so much he puts himself over even his own fighters. Contrast this to the likes of Julio Cesar Chavez and Felix Trinidad who show nothing but love, support and encouragement to their countrymen.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
Bit harsh from Joshua but he is right in the sense that Lewis has always kind of had a hardon for him. Lewis no doubt felt resentment for how much politics kept him out and how they worked in Joshua’s favor and Lewis definitely doesn’t want to be upstaged (in British terms) and was not as popular with the public. He deserves respect though as he’s a great fighter who’s been there and done it.

Mayweather is that way too. He wants nobody to shine or be great even now he craves the spotlight so much he puts himself over even his own fighters. Contrast this to the likes of Julio Cesar Chavez and Felix Trinidad who show nothing but love, support and encouragement to their countrymen.
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Lewis has always been pretty generous with praise for Joshua though. He criticised Hearn mainly for the Wilder fight not being made and then they came out with the stuff he doesn't like Joshua.

If anything it seems Joshua's ego isn't allowing him to take criticism rather than Lewis being jealous of him.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
Bit harsh from Joshua but he is right in the sense that Lewis has always kind of had a hardon for him. Lewis no doubt felt resentment for how much politics kept him out and how they worked in Joshua’s favor and Lewis definitely doesn’t want to be upstaged (in British terms) and was not as popular with the public. He deserves respect though as he’s a great fighter who’s been there and done it.

Mayweather is that way too. He wants nobody to shine or be great even now he craves the spotlight so much he puts himself over even his own fighters. Contrast this to the likes of Julio Cesar Chavez and Felix Trinidad who show nothing but love, support and encouragement to their countrymen.
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Joshua would have been better advised to have kept his mouth shut and use any perceived misjudgement as motivation for his rematch with Ruiz. For someone who has always projected an image of being humble and respectful, this tweet could hardly be more contradictory. Maybe his true self is coming out now he is no longer the king of the HW division. I always suspected his public persona was a load of tripe.
 
RedFish said:
Joshua would have been better advised to have kept his mouth shut and use any perceived misjudgement as motivation for his rematch with Ruiz. For someone who has always projected an image of being humble and respectful, this tweet could hardly be more contradictory. Maybe his true self is coming out now he is no longer the king of the HW division. I always suspected his public persona was a load of tripe.
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I just watched the interview this came from. Very interesting and AJ contradicts himself quite a bit in the interview but it’s pretty good.

Seems a bit dismissive of Ruiz and says it was a lucky punch whilst also saying he wasn’t really that up for the fight and it came across that he was a bit disillusioned with boxing chasing Wilder and Fury and just not getting them. Them being booked up for a year and a half when he’s offering them the biggest purses of their careers, the biggest publicity, huge crowds and they don’t want to fight him.

Just made out like he didn’t really see the point in the Ruiz fight but now, Ruiz got his belts so that’s what he is focused on.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
For those that are interested in reading books on fighters and era's of previous generations here's some books that I put up there as a mix of essential reading sprinkled in with a few personal favorites/books that may interest some here (British). No particular order of significance or quality but I've put them into sub categories.

Essay style

The Sweet Science by AJ Liebling - Liebling of The New Yorker is widely considered the most gifted writer to cover sports and this book was voted as the greatest American sports book of all-time by Sports Illustrated. It covers his works from the 1940's-1950's with Rocky Marciano, Sugar Ray Robinson, Joe Louis featured most prominently.

A neutral corner by AJ Liebling - These essays cover his work from the 1950's into the 1960's covering such unique fighters as Floyd Patterson, Archie Moore, Sonny Liston and Archie Moore. If you get the above book, you'll almost certainly want this one too.

Gods of War by Springs Toledo - I think this author is probably the closest thing to Liebling and the greatest sports writer of this generation. It starts of with a collection of some of his writings on such subjects as Peter Quillan and the original Kid Chocolate, the life and death of Alexis Arguello and then he breaks down his 10 greatest fighters in history with superb write-ups on each.

In the cheap seats by Springs Toledo - An excellent collection of stories where the author covers modern fights featuring the likes of Wadimir Klitshcko, Sergey Kovalev, Manny Pacquaio and writes about them in such a descriptive way whilst linking them to some of the greats of the past. Another literary masterpiece.

Dark Trade by Donald McRae - A brutally up close and personal look at the fighters and the men behind the fights during the 1990's of travelling the world covering some of the biggest names in boxing such as James Toney, Mike Tyson, Roy Jones, Evander Holyfield.

McIllvaney on Boxing by Hugh McIlvanney - Britain's Libeling and our very own Sir Alex' ghost writer, McIllvaney covered boxing and wrote about it better than anyone for about 30 years. This collection of his works is really one that should be in any boxing book worms library. A personal favorite write-up of mine is his account of the Carlos Ortiz vs. Ismael Laguna III fight from Shea Stadium in New York.

The hardest game by Hugh McIlvanney - Again, another collection of works that is so wonderfully written. There's a wide range of content here from the heavyweights of the 1970's, to British stars Ken Buchanan and Barry McGuigan all the way into some of the stars of the 1990's like Oscar De La Hoya, Lennox Lewis and Roy Jones.

Fridays Heroes by Willie Pep - This book is Pep really talking about himself a little bit and his up close stories about fighters he was friends with and fighters he saw up close and on TV. An excellent straight forward read by one of the all-time greats about a golden era.

Interview/Feature style

Corner Men by Ronald Fried - The author features some of the greatest boxing trainers and minds in history as they go into depth explaining their experiences, their methods and with countless incredible insights. Such legends as Ray Arcel, Jack Blackburn, Eddie Futch and Angelo Dundee are featured.

In the corner by Dave Anderson - Equally as good and important as the above book, this one features such legendary trainers as George Benton, Emmanuel Steward in addition to the men behind Marvin Hagler and Mike Tyson plus more.

In this corner..by Peter Heller - 42 world champions tell their story and it's brilliant. Legends from Jack Dempsey to Joe Louis to Henry Armstrong to Beau Jack to Roberto Duran etc; there is a nice little write up on each fighter and then the transcript of unedited interviews where the fighters told their story and what was on their mind. I'd argue this is probably the first book you should purchase if you've not got any on my list.

History

Mountain Fighters by Lawrence Davies - This book covers an era of mountain fighters in South Wales and is one of the finest pieces of boxing research that's been put to paper. A lot of the names of the people in the book I'd never heard of, men from the coal mines who'd settle differences and fight for cigarettes or a drink in the mountains away from the police.

Jack Scarott's Prize fighters by Lawrence Davies - The same author's excellent follow up covers close to a 100 page memoir from the Boxing booth promoter Scarott and then gets into his superbly researched and detailed write-ups. Some of the names featured are enshrined in the hall of fame like Jimmy Wilde and Jim Driscoll whereas many aren't known but are equally fascinating. This book is about the period of when booth fighting was prominent in Wales. For those that don't know what that is, a promoter would have like a fairground type tent and call people in there to either pay to watch or participate for a pay.

The International Boxing Hall of Fame register by the IBHOF - This was my bible in the late 90's early 2000's when I was trying to learn of all the greats. It has a small write-up on every hall of famer and their fight by fight record. Nothing majorly detailed but very useful and really helps if you are trying to get more interested and learn more.

Biographies

Live fast, die young: The life & times of Harry Greb by Stephen Compton: A hugely researched work which was over a decade in the making this book is over 700 pages. That had put me off purchasing it for a while but I figured Greb is a guy I want to know all about so I got it and really had a hard time putting it down at times. Brilliantly detailed and though the writer is a huge Greb fan, you don't sense any bias as the reports and stories are written as reported. Greb has the greatest resume of any fighter in history, yet no fight footage is known to exist, so do yourself a favor and get this one.

Charley Burley: The life & hard times of an uncrowned champion by Allen Rosenfeld - Thoroughly researched and detailed featuring many first hand sources and reports this one is also a hefty read coming in at around 600 pages. One way of looking at Burley is that he was a hard luck fighter, victim of the race discrimination of the times but he was also a quiet, dignified man of exceptional talent and artistic skill. The result is one of the greatest boxers ever and a worthy detailed look at his life which also helps you really appreciate and understand the era.

Sam Langford: Boxing's greatest uncrowned champion by Clay Moyle - I believe this to be the best written of these biographies and really paints the picture of the man and the times. Wonderfully researched and detailed piece on a happy go lucky lovable man who had everything against him and just got in with it to become one of the greatest fighters in history.

Freddie Welsh: Occupation: Prizefighter by Andrew Gallimore - Welsh is one of the most interesting characters to ever put on the gloves and Gallimore succeeded in bringing his story to life in an entertaining and fascinating manner. Born in Wales, Welsh moved to the States in his mid teens and often split time. From hobo to avoided challenger to (wrongly) ridiculed champion Welsh not only had an incredible career he also was the inspiration behind The Great Gatsby, a lover of literature who hung with the higher class and one of the first and most successful fighters at playing the press.

Joe Gans: The Longest fight by William Gildea - The shortest of these books but rich in expertly written detail, this book is featured around Gans' historical first battle with Battling Nelson but also tells the life story of an inspiring but ultimately tragic sporting idol.

Sweet William (Billy Conn) by Andrew O'Toole - An excellent book on Conn that really paints the picture of the Pittsburgh fight scene and Conn's Irish heritage. Conn, a fiery, brash Irish American lived an exciting life to say the least and this detailed, researched book with first hand accounts does him and his legacy justice.

Dick Tiger: The Life and Times of a Boxing immortal by Adeyinka Makinde - A brilliant book on the man who for my money is the greatest African boxer ever. The story details his youth, his struggling days in Liverpool and then his rise in America as a fight favorite and Ring fighter of the year, his wild popularity in Nigeria and his political struggles in his homeland and sad early death.

Autobiographies

Joe Frazier with Phil Berger
Larry Holmes with Phil Berger
By George by George Foreman
Somebody up there likes me by Rocky Graziano
Raging Bull by Jake LaMotta
Victory over myself by Floyd Patterson
Sugar Ray Robinson with Dave Anderson
Ken Buchanan: Tartan Legend
Jimmy Wilde: Fighting was my business

Hitting and stopping: How I won 100 fights by Jimmy Wilde - This one is a lot of Wilde talking tactics and is fascinating insight whilst also talking about such things as his hardest fight and the modern version as an excellent write up by Lawrence Davies.

Stories on individual fights
The Fight by Norman Mailer on Frazier-Ali I
Ghosts of Manilla by Mark Kram on Ali-Frazier III - You may not like it if you're an Ali die hard.
Beyond Glory by Dave Margolick on Louis-Schmeling II
Four Kings by George Kimball on the Leonard-Duran-Hearns-Hagler Fab Four fights

There's a lot more. I'll probably add over time.
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Lovely! I must buy some of those Springs Toledo books. Was reading through your post and was going to jump right in with 'Four Kings' if you hadn't mentioned it. Fantastic book.
 
I'd add:

Manos de Piedra by Frank Foster: Thrilling at some points, a bit workmanlike at others, but generally a really good read if you're a Duran fan.

Journeymen by Mark Turley: Can't recommend this enough. Basically about low level fighters in their own words, and revelatory basically.

The Devil and Sonny Liston by Nick Tosches and The Murder of Sonny Liston by Shaun Assael: Included these two together as I'm not entirely sure how good they are - I just find Liston compelling as feck and loved both books.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
Lovely! I must buy some of those Springs Toledo books. Was reading through your post and was going to jump right in with 'Four Kings' if you hadn't mentioned it. Fantastic book.
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Oh yes that is a great one. It belongs on that list.

I just read his new book on Harry Greb’s 1919 called Smokestack Lightning. Brilliant read as is his Murderers Row book. I’d recommend all his books personally.
 
Pat_Mustard said:
I'd add:

Manos de Piedra by Frank Foster: Thrilling at some points, a bit workmanlike at others, but generally a really good read if you're a Duran fan.

Journeymen by Mark Turley: Can't recommend this enough. Basically about low level fighters in their own words, and revelatory basically.

The Devil and Sonny Liston by Nick Tosches and The Murder of Sonny Liston by Shaun Assael: Included these two together as I'm not entirely sure how good they are - I just find Liston compelling as feck and loved both books.
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I read the Tosches one and felt it was good. I know a lot of folks didn’t like it but it’s a good book.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
I saw about half of this last night. Good stuff. I will be watching the rest tonight. I'm a huge Crawford fan.
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I love interviews like this. He's quite reserved but still it's fascinating to hear from him. I love him. Such an incisive fighter. Once he senses he's got you, it's game over. Love it.
 
RedFish said:
I love interviews like this. He's quite reserved but still it's fascinating to hear from him. I love him. Such an incisive fighter. Once he senses he's got you, it's game over. Love it.
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Yeah, he's not Mr. Charisma but he comes off well. He doesn't talk trash and clearly respects everyone willing to fight and takes his craft very seriously. You get no fluff from him or smugness or cockiness like you get with Spence for example. Crawford wants the fight, knows he'll win. Spence puts roadblocks up, puts others down and I think knows he'd be up against it.

Crawford is a surgeon. He's not the most devastating puncher or flashiest fighter in the sport but he's the most complete and can fight at distance or in close and he's an underrated finisher. Reminds me of Marquez in that aspect. Patient and poised and once they've got you, they will take you out in expert fashion.
 
Fantastic chin from Yarde but like AJ he's too musclebound and completely punched himself out after the 8th.
 
Estrada-Yafai looking like it will happen on the Joshua-Ruiz bill in Saudi Arabia. I'd actually be much more into that fight than the main event. Estrada looked good as usual on Saturday though the opponent was just ordinary. Estrada has been one of my favorite fighters for years it's good to see he's signed to Hearn now and getting the plaudits.

Lomachenko-Campbell this Saturday. I'm really excited about this one and I actually envisage Campbell giving him a good, competitive fight. The difference in size, height and reach is big and Campbell is schooled. Of course, if Lomachenko has a master plan for the jab and takes it away then it will be easy for him. Is anyone here going to this one?

For those interested in my history pieces, I'm going to be doing a lengthy piece on Jimmy Wilde in the next few weeks. Just got to double check some research and reports and will start writing it next week if time permits. Probably will be around 12,000 to 15,000 words.
 
Anyone ever seen the footage of Nigel Benn meeting Gerald McClellan years after their fight? That was a tough watch man.
 
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