The RedCafe Boxing Thread

Inter Yer Nan said:
Chisora is a thug and shouldn't be allowed to get a license. He's always creating unsavory moments and I don't think it's a show. He's a loose cannon.
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I'd like to see Chisora/Whyte 2 though. So hopefully he makes a comeback.
 
Crawford-Indongo this Saturday and on ESPN. Good exposure, though ESPN production is a million miles off Showtime and HBO.

I love Crawford. If Lomachenko isn't the best in the World, then he is. A complete boxer. Indongo is good and awkward and coming in with the confidence of winning two belts on the road in back to back fights. Should be fun.

On the undercard is Alex Gvozdyk who is certainly one to keep an eye on. A KO artist and skilled boxer. I think he's one of the next guys to become a pound for pound player.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
Crawford-Indongo this Saturday and on ESPN. Good exposure, though ESPN production is a million miles off Showtime and HBO.

I love Crawford. If Lomachenko isn't the best in the World, then he is. A complete boxer. Indongo is good and awkward and coming in with the confidence of winning two belts on the road in back to back fights. Should be fun.

On the undercard is Alex Gvozdyk wh'o is certainly one to keep an eye on. A KO artist and skilled boxer. I think he's one of the next guys to become a pound for pound player.
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Undisputed World Champion ...! Can't wait to see it. I've got Crawford no 1 in the p4p just ahead of Loma but mainly because of the brevity of Loma's pro record so far. Lomachenko is headed for that no 1 spot, but Crawford looks the finished article, at his absolute peak to me.
 
RedFish said:
Undisputed World Champion ...! Can't wait to see it. I've got Crawford no 1 in the p4p just ahead of Loma but mainly because of the brevity of Loma's pro record so far. Lomachenko is headed for that no 1 spot, but Crawford looks the finished article, at his absolute peak to me.
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Yeah, he's a masterful boxer just not as dazzling as Lomachenko. BUT he is IMO the most adaptable fighter in the game. Almost like he takes a round or two scouts his foe and then decides he's seen what he likes and he will slowly punish them. He can do it equally well as a right hander or a southpaw. He can fire underneath, over the top and from different angles because his feet are excellent too. Like when he's southpaw his right jab is authoritative just as his left is when he's conventional and then his cross is equally sharp and effective in both.

Probably the best switch hitter since Hagler. Basically, he takes the piss.
 
For those who give a shit he's a list I compiled during some downtime. It took me a few weeks and I was tweaking here and there but feel confident this is my general order. There's probably someone or even 10 or so fighters that I accidentally missed or maybe somebody I put twice by mistake. Realistically it's very hard because how can you really compare era's (you basically can't). Quantity of fights were way different and quality of opposition whereas we are in an era were a protected record and whats in the loss column is more important than who you fought and when you fought them. Obviously footage of Harry Greb for example is limited to him shadow boxing whereas youtube has everything on the career of Evander Holyfield so that makes it impossible to rank accurately. I go off quality of career/resume, overall skill set, dominance, how I they would do in the era before and after (mythical) and obviously opposition and adversity handled.

Pound for pound all-time

  1. Sugar Ray Robinson
  2. Henry Armstrong
  3. Willie Pep
  4. Roberto Duran
  5. Eder Jofre
  6. Harry Greb
  7. Benny Leonard
  8. Sam Langford
  9. Carlos Ortiz
  10. Ezzard Charles
  11. Muhammad Ali
  12. Joe Louis
  13. Archie Moore
  14. Carlos Monzon
  15. Sugar Ray Leonard
  16. Marvelous Marvin Hagler
  17. Barney Ross
  18. Jimmy Wilde
  19. Sandy Saddler
  20. Gene Tunney
  21. Pernell Whitaker
  22. Mickey Walker
  23. Kid Gavilan
  24. Tony Canzoneri
  25. Alexis Arguello


The 26-50

26. Jimmy McLarnin

27. Ike Williams

28. Charles Burley

29. Joe Gans

30. Jose “Mantequilla” Napoles

31. Tommy Hearns

32. Jack Johnson

33. Ruben Olivares

34.Tiger Flowers

35. Emile Griffith

36. Roy Jones JR

37. Evander Holyfield

38. Julio Cesar Chavez

39. Bob Fitzsimmons

40. Tommy Loughran

41. Billy Conn

42. Bernard Hopkins

43. Lou Ambers

44. Floyd Mayweather

45. Joe Walcott (Original)

46. Manny Pacquaio

47. Juan Manuel Marquez

48. Salvador Sanchez

49. Larry Holmes

50. Rocky Marciano


51-75


51. Jake LaMotta

52. George Foreman

53. Tommy Ryan

54. Michael Spinks

55. Kid Chocolate

56. Stanley Ketchel

57. Carmen Basilio

58. Joe Frazier

59. Dick Tiger

60. Jimmy Bivins

61. George Dixon

62. Jack Dempsey

63. Wilfredo Gomez

64. Joe Brown

65. Wilfred Benitez

66. Bob Foster

67. Harold Johnson

68. Beau Jack

69. Bob Montgomery

70. Azumah Nelson

71. Jack Brittan

72. Ted “Kid” Lewis

73. Terry McGovern

74. Abe Attell

75. James Toney


75-100


76. Aaron Pryor

77. Mashiko “Fighting” Harada

78. Mike McCallum

79. Felix “Tito” Trinidad

80. Carlos Zarate

81. Ricardo Lopez

82. Lennox Lewis

83. Joe Calzaghe

84. Maxie Rosenbloom

85. Marco Antonio Barrera

86. Erik Morales

87. Marcel Cerdan

88. Freddie Steele

89. Tony Zale

90. Miguel Canto

91. Johnny Kilbane

92. Joey Giardello

93. Vicente Saldivar

94. Luis Rodriguez

95. Ad Wolgast

96. Gene Fullmer

97. Sonny Liston

98. Jackie “Kid” Berg

99. John Henry Lewis

100. Roman “Chocolatito” Gonzalez
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
I love James Toney he's one of my absolute favorites ever but I think a lot of his talent was squandered (basically 1995-2002 should have been prime years and were squandered). If he had half the drive of Hopkins, he'd have been top 30-40 IMO.
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If i remember right more than half of his losses came in his last 10-15 fights. Made a great jump from super-middleweight and has a KO of Holyfield on his resume.
 
For the record my favorites are

Juan Manuel Marquez
Felix Trinidad
Salvador Sanchez
Rafael Marquez
James Toney
Marvelous Marvin Hagler
Vasyl Lomachenko
Terence Crawford
Kostya Tszyu
Eder Jofre

I tend to probably be harsher on them as I concentrate probably more on their careers/wins/losses and try to be impartial as possible etc; My mates all think I underrate Marquez and Tito on an all-time ranking (those are my top two ever). It's possible I lean more towards fighters from before my time for the same reasons.
 
Arbitrium said:
If i remember right more than half of his losses came in his last 10-15 fights. Made a great jump from super-middleweight and has a KO of Holyfield on his resume.
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His career was like this -

Unknown fighter fighting every few weeks lands a title shot as massive underdog KO's Michael Nunn coming from behind and then is very active. Beats HOF great Mike McCallum in there and somehow gets a decision over Dave Tiberi in a wretched performance. Jumps up to 168 destroys Barkley stays active and loses easily to Jones and then lost two debatable decisions to Montell Griffin then although staying fairly active didn't really get any good fights for years (lose to Drake Thadzi) and was considered washed up but emerges at cruiserweight and wins the title with a thriller against Jirov and had a good heavyweight run.

So up and down a bit but some incredible ups and the downs weren't based on lack of quality but lack of effort.

At his best he'd have beaten Hopkins for me but like I said Hopkins get 100% out of his talent. Toney probably got 50% which is sad but also awesome when you consider the career Toney had regardless.
 
RedFish said:
http://www.theboxingrant.com/podcast.html

A good preview of the Crawford v Indongo fight from the excellent Tale of the Tape podcast team
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Ricky Burns who fought both said the following
“Indongo’s main strengths are his height, his reach and he’s a southpaw,” Burns told RingTV.com. “He’s just so awkward to deal with. Standing in front of him at a weigh-in is one thing but when you square off against him, it’s amazing how big and rangy he is.

“We had excellent sparring for that fight. We brought in boys who were tall and long, just like him but, as I said on the night, the better man won. It was those big left hooks he kept throwing. He kept catching me high on top of the head and when he’s banging them in, he can really whack.”

That sounds ominous to say the least, but Indongo’s opponent is rated No. 4 by THE RING pound-for-pound for a reason.

“Technically, Crawford is just so good,” said Burns with respect. “His ability to switch-hit kept him one step ahead whenever I tried to come in. He can draw leads off you and his counters are really good. His boxing ability is definitely superior to Indongo’s.

“I can see Indongo giving him something to think about for the first few rounds but Crawford is just so good at figuring you out. I think he’ll take over and he might actually force a late stoppage."
 
RedFish said:
Joy to watch. Crawford is dispatching very good fighters with ease. Ridiculously good.

Fight with Garcia hopefully at some stage.
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I think Crawford outboxes Garcia will relative ease too. Garcia looks quite small/fleshy at 140.
 
I don't know much about boxing. What age is generally considered as being in peak form for boxers? With football it's generally from age 26 to 29 that we call 'peak years'.
 
VorZakone said:
I don't know much about boxing. What age is generally considered as being in peak form for boxers? With football it's generally from age 26 to 29 that we call 'peak years'.
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Depends on the style of the boxer really. A pressure fighter who relies on workrate may find his prime in his mid-late 20s, while a boxer/counter-puncher may find his prime in his early-mid 30s as they fine tune their style with experience and may rely less on their physical attributes.
 
Crawford is a phenom. He gets better and better every single fight. He actually trains all year round which definitely contributes. Consider that to most guys that plateau when they hit the pound for pound level because they just wait until they have a fight signed.

I think you have to put him #1 based on merit but Lomachenko is an acceptable answer as he is out of this world also.
 
Inter Yer Nan said:
He just fought Walters in November. I'll make the track to NYC for this one I think. Got a free place to stay there and tickets will be well priced.
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I thought you might pick up on that.:) You know I mean someone who can give him a half decent fight. Easier said than done, granted!

He could move up to 135 and then the likes of Garcia could be an option, though not sure we'd get past the TopRank problem.
 
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Inter Yer Nan said:
Crawford is a phenom. He gets better and better every single fight. He actually trains all year round which definitely contributes. Consider that to most guys that plateau when they hit the pound for pound level because they just wait until they have a fight signed.

I think you have to put him #1 based on merit but Lomachenko is an acceptable answer as he is out of this world also.
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Done. He's clearly no 1 in my book. Like I said he's appears to be at the peak of his powers and it really is something to watch. This man doesn't feck around! Thing I have him over Loma is his killer instinct coupled with really, really hurtful punching power. His body shots are a thing of beauty.
 
Dillian Whyte fought a nobody and it's being made a big deal of. All of a sudden everyone's certain that he's going to blitz Joshua. While i think he's capable, it isn't going to be as easy and it's being made out to be.

AJ's fighting Pulev next, can't see that go the distance. His hand speed would be too much for the Bulgarian. Wlad absolutely smashed him up when they met and i bet AJ'll do the same. If he goes on to fight Ortiz next i'm not so sure about the outcome.
 
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