Yeah and I think Tresor and Montero will work superbly together
The Reality Draft: Main Thread (Finals)
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
OLIVER KAHN
The point of having a randomizer would be lost if we have trades. The whole point is to manage with whatever you are dealt.
As for keepers, the managers/interested people first need to start giving them importance before moaning about scan voters not caring about them. How many in match discussions take the keepers into account? It usually stops at how strong a CB pair is instead of looking at the keeper as the part of the defense.
Charity begins at home.
Charity begins at home.
Yeah, well. As I've tried to point out the problem doesn't reside with the managers. We don't deliberately pick "generic" keepers. The problem is that one of the players you've - perhaps even carefully - selected might as well be replaced by a generic one in terms of what impact he has on the game. It's a game, after all - your moves should have an impact. The individual manager's personal satisfaction in assembling a certain team according to his own standards - is something else entirely.
Fixing it? Sure, there are ways to make the keepers count for something. Many possibilities there. But this ain't the time and place for discussing concrete ideas regarding future drafts.
To be continued elsewhere.
That's a fair point. There has to be a precedent, though. If I all of a sudden started making a huge song and dance about the keepers in a match thread, I doubt that would go down well.
Well since non of you twats took my next pick I left it with Annah and he doesn't even know it 
Absolutely, it was a real no-brainer.
Great pick Viva.
Reuter was my original plan. He should have been picked earlier, such a useful player in the right system with his pace.
I'm not fussed if one move has zero impact TBH, I just accept it and get on with it. There are far more important things to invest your time and effort in than changing voter behaviour regarding keepers in a football draft. I'm not being pedantic, just stating the obvious for the sake of perspective.
Well since non of you twats took my next pick I left it with Annah and he doesn't even know it
Pick him for kicks. In fact, Annah shouldn't comment on picks left over, just act accordingly.
IMO.
I'm not sure what your system is, but if it involves Dani Alves you should have picked Reuter, and that's no slight on Alves.
I rate Reuter very highly but he has nothing on Alves going forward. Reuter is a very well balanced full back/wing back who is as good defensively and offensively, while not excelling to the absolute highest level at either. Alves is an offensively balanced one who excels at going forward and is absolute world class at doing that, so with an already secured defense that was more important than Reuters better defensive abilities.
Damn, I wish I could comment on the last few posts but anto would kill me.
Damn, I wish I could comment on the last few posts but anto would kill me.
You will get your chance, eventually.
Reuter was better than Alves at pretty much every attribute you can consider when comparing two wingbacks. The fact that he was less flashy and could also defend effectively doesn't make Dani Alves better and "more World Class" at attacking, just less balanced, as you admit. It's only natural that your attacking attributes stand out when you can't defend very well, else you wouldn't be a part of such a successful Barca side. Reuter would walk into most sides today or five years ago, if not all of them.
I don't agree with that at all but would be interesting to see what @Balu thinks. I've always loved very pacey players so Reuter has been one of my favorites for a long time. But I think it is really off to consider him better than Alves offensively. I think Alves is comfortably better, which is why he has racked up the statistics to prove it as well both for Sevilla and Barcelona.
I'm not saying he is better offensively, just that Alves is NOT comfortably better and has nothing on Reuter bar being a bit more flashy and being blessed to have played with better players in a more attacking setup. Alves is certainly NOT better offensively to the extent that it is worth sacrificing the significant differential there is in defensive capability.
Mind you, you are discussing this with someone who grew up watching Uruguayan football live, South American football occasionally on TV, and German football every weekend. I'm a strange specimen as a result and grew very fond of tactical discipline and structure, people knowing what the heck they are supposed to be doing, being effective, etc. On balance I put it down as responsible for 70% of a winning side and creativity/flair/genius being responsible for the other 30%. Germans probably raise the 70%, South Americans argue the case of the 30%, and people following England will be happy with either because they are fed up of ineffectual systems that stifle whatever creativity is at hand.
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I'm not saying he is better, just that Alves is NOT comfortably better and has nothing on Reuter bar being a bit more flashy and being blessed to have played with better players in a more attacking setup. Alves is certainly NOT better offensively to the extent that it is worth sacrificing the significant differential there is in defensive capability.
Mind you, you are discussing this with someone who grew up watching Uruguayan football live, South American football occasionally on TV, and German football every weekend. I'm a strange specimen as a result and grew very fond of tactical discipline and structure, people knowing what the heck they are supposed to be doing, being effective, etc. On balance I put it down as responsible for 70% of a winning side and creativity/flair/genius being responsible for the other 30%. Germans probably raise the 70%, South Americans argue the case of the 30%, and people following England will be happy with either because they are fed up of ineffectual systems that stifle whatever creativity is at hand.
I think that Alves is less flashy than Reuter, but that Reuter offensively is a lot less hit and miss than Alves who is very consistent at producing numbers(assists). Reuter was very flashy with his mesmerizing pace and good dribbling, which when it worked out looked amazing - but it wasn't something Reuter did in every attack.
With Gentile on the right, who is used to handle flanks all by himself and making it work, Alves added offense is more important than Reuter's added pace and defense. I already have more than enough speed in my team so Alves passing range is a great addition and something Reuter can't provide. Not just talking about crosses then, but actually initiating counters as well.
Litti and Reuter wouldn't work too well in my eyes. Litti is also a pacey dribbler so with Reuter neither of them would have the crisp passing to find the others runs.
Growing up having watched primarily Northern, British and German football I appreciate the balance player as in the North we've not had a lot of flair ones. For every Cristiano, there is a Gary Neville. Someone who can complement you, and make you shine. Rather than trying to have a Reuter behind Ronaldo who would suddenly also want to make those explosive runs behind the defense, but would of course make it worse than Ronaldo himself and Ronaldo would then have to act playmaker for Reuter at times.
The same way when Beckham was played on the right Neville was more aggressive in his overlap as David had such a passing range that if he had the ball with some space it'd be a good way to create something.
The same way when Beckham was played on the right Neville was more aggressive in his overlap as David had such a passing range that if he had the ball with some space it'd be a good way to create something.
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Not that I want to knock Alves here, he was immense for Barca at his peak, but you can't compare stats and conclude Reuter was hit and miss. How dominant the side is, how much poorer the opposition is, who the guys at the end of the passes are... it all affects the stats. If Reuter had played for that Barca side he would be a far bigger name than he is for the average football fan.
In any case, there's a clue, it's your pick ultimately, your team and Alves will certainly be the sexier one, but don't go around talking about gaps that don't exist with players most people hardly know (at least half the caf would be consistent with /shaw). If you want to bang on about Alves vs. Alaba, sure, knock yourself out because people will see through any exaggeration, but I'm not one to let unfair comments on lower profile players pass.
Manfred Kaltz
@crappycraperson
@crappycraperson
01. Annahnomoss - (3. Tardelli) 1. Cocu 2. Gentile 4. Amoros 5. Rossi 6. Gascoigne 7. Scirea 8. Bossis 9. Littbarski 10. Sterling 11. D. Alves
02. Chesterlestreet - (7. Lahm) 1. Mascherano 2. Nedved 3. Neeskens 4. Beckham 5. Henry 6. Júnior, 8. Buchwald 9. G. Neville 10. J. Rodriguez 11. Augenthaler
03. Joga Bonito - (4. O Ardiles) 1. Keown 2. Baggio 3. Figo 5. Weah 6. Søren Lerby 7. Cafú 8. Koeman 9. De Rossi 10. Juan Bernat 11. Sanchís
04. Raees - (2. Makelele) 1. Morena 3. Socrates 4. Conti 5. Stoichkov 6. Ballack 7. Zanetti, 8. Costacurta 9. Terry, 10. Pogba, 11. D. Villa
05. antohan - (3. Gerrard) 1. Ljungberg 2. Boniek 4. Effenberg 5. Raul 6. Luis Enrique 7. Hierro 8. T. Silva 9. Ferrara 10. Götze 11. Vieri
06. BorisDeLeFora - (7. Bergomi) 1. Zambrotta 2. Tigana 3. Robson 4. Cerezo 5. Del Piero 6. Klinsmann 8. Lucio 9. Popescu 10. Koke 11. A. Cole
07. ctp - (6. Ribéry) 1. Brolin 2. Lato 3. Xavi 4. Guardiola 5. Shevchenko 7. Kohler 8. Carvalho 9. Kakà 10. Carvajal 11. Evra
08. Skizzo - (7. Brehme) 1. Solskjaer 2. Cabrini 3. Schuster 4. K. Förster 5. Hugo Sanchez 6. Barnes 8. Deschamps 9. McGrain 10. Marquinhos 11. Michel
09. MJJ (Theon) - (4. Dalglish) 1. Di Livio 2. Souness 3. Bochini 5. Rivaldo 6. McGrath 7. Sammer 8. Campbell 9. Totti 10. Ricardo Rodriguez 11. Peter Schmeichel
10. Jayvin - (3. Iniesta) 1. Gallas 2. Vieira 4. Lizarazu 5. Romario 6. Overmars 7. Desailly 8. Blanc 9. Xabi Alonso 10. Hazard 11. Gianluigi Buffon
11. Stobzilla - (8. Jugovic) 1. Camoranesi 2. Hansen 3. Davids 4. Balakov 5. Batistuta 6. Irwin 7. Passarella 9. Pires 10. Strootman 11. Mauro Silva
12. Aldo - (7. Rio) 1. Senna 2. Hagi 3. Pirlo 4. Schweinsteiger 5. RvN 6. Tresor 8. Camacho 9. Gerets 10. Neymar 11. Montero
13. The Red Viper - (5. Simonsen) 1. Prosinečki 2. Robben 3. Scholes 4. Vidic 6. Eto'o 7. Stam 8. Rui Costa 9. Dunga 10. Rafael Da Silva 11. Kahn
14. VivaJanuzaj - (7. Nesta) 1. Francescoli 2. Seedorf 3. Breitner 4. Vierchowod 5. Rummenigge 6. Savicevic 8. Verón 9. Adams 10. Alaba 11. Reuter
15. harms - (1. Puyol) 2. Blokhin 3. Falcao 4. Roberto Carlos 5. Bergkamp 6.Bonhof 7. Ruggeri 8. Willy Ortiz 9. Stielike 10. Varane 11. Kaltz
16. crappycraperson - (7. Cannavaro) 1. Nadal 2. M. Kempes 3. Roy Keane 4. Jan Ceulemans 5. Shearer 6. Prohaska 8. Briegel 9. Ayala 10. Kroos
02. Chesterlestreet - (7. Lahm) 1. Mascherano 2. Nedved 3. Neeskens 4. Beckham 5. Henry 6. Júnior, 8. Buchwald 9. G. Neville 10. J. Rodriguez 11. Augenthaler
03. Joga Bonito - (4. O Ardiles) 1. Keown 2. Baggio 3. Figo 5. Weah 6. Søren Lerby 7. Cafú 8. Koeman 9. De Rossi 10. Juan Bernat 11. Sanchís
04. Raees - (2. Makelele) 1. Morena 3. Socrates 4. Conti 5. Stoichkov 6. Ballack 7. Zanetti, 8. Costacurta 9. Terry, 10. Pogba, 11. D. Villa
05. antohan - (3. Gerrard) 1. Ljungberg 2. Boniek 4. Effenberg 5. Raul 6. Luis Enrique 7. Hierro 8. T. Silva 9. Ferrara 10. Götze 11. Vieri
06. BorisDeLeFora - (7. Bergomi) 1. Zambrotta 2. Tigana 3. Robson 4. Cerezo 5. Del Piero 6. Klinsmann 8. Lucio 9. Popescu 10. Koke 11. A. Cole
07. ctp - (6. Ribéry) 1. Brolin 2. Lato 3. Xavi 4. Guardiola 5. Shevchenko 7. Kohler 8. Carvalho 9. Kakà 10. Carvajal 11. Evra
08. Skizzo - (7. Brehme) 1. Solskjaer 2. Cabrini 3. Schuster 4. K. Förster 5. Hugo Sanchez 6. Barnes 8. Deschamps 9. McGrain 10. Marquinhos 11. Michel
09. MJJ (Theon) - (4. Dalglish) 1. Di Livio 2. Souness 3. Bochini 5. Rivaldo 6. McGrath 7. Sammer 8. Campbell 9. Totti 10. Ricardo Rodriguez 11. Peter Schmeichel
10. Jayvin - (3. Iniesta) 1. Gallas 2. Vieira 4. Lizarazu 5. Romario 6. Overmars 7. Desailly 8. Blanc 9. Xabi Alonso 10. Hazard 11. Gianluigi Buffon
11. Stobzilla - (8. Jugovic) 1. Camoranesi 2. Hansen 3. Davids 4. Balakov 5. Batistuta 6. Irwin 7. Passarella 9. Pires 10. Strootman 11. Mauro Silva
12. Aldo - (7. Rio) 1. Senna 2. Hagi 3. Pirlo 4. Schweinsteiger 5. RvN 6. Tresor 8. Camacho 9. Gerets 10. Neymar 11. Montero
13. The Red Viper - (5. Simonsen) 1. Prosinečki 2. Robben 3. Scholes 4. Vidic 6. Eto'o 7. Stam 8. Rui Costa 9. Dunga 10. Rafael Da Silva 11. Kahn
14. VivaJanuzaj - (7. Nesta) 1. Francescoli 2. Seedorf 3. Breitner 4. Vierchowod 5. Rummenigge 6. Savicevic 8. Verón 9. Adams 10. Alaba 11. Reuter
15. harms - (1. Puyol) 2. Blokhin 3. Falcao 4. Roberto Carlos 5. Bergkamp 6.Bonhof 7. Ruggeri 8. Willy Ortiz 9. Stielike 10. Varane 11. Kaltz
16. crappycraperson - (7. Cannavaro) 1. Nadal 2. M. Kempes 3. Roy Keane 4. Jan Ceulemans 5. Shearer 6. Prohaska 8. Briegel 9. Ayala 10. Kroos
01. Annahnomoss - (3. Tardelli) 1. Cocu 2. Gentile 4. Amoros 5. Rossi 6. Gascoigne 7. Scirea 8. Bossis 9. Littbarski 10. Sterling 11. D. Alves
02. Chesterlestreet - (7. Lahm) 1. Mascherano 2. Nedved 3. Neeskens 4. Beckham 5. Henry 6. Júnior, 8. Buchwald 9. G. Neville 10. J. Rodriguez 11. Augenthaler
03. Joga Bonito - (4. O Ardiles) 1. Keown 2. Baggio 3. Figo 5. Weah 6. Søren Lerby 7. Cafú 8. Koeman 9. De Rossi 10. Juan Bernat 11. Sanchís
04. Raees - (2. Makelele) 1. Morena 3. Socrates 4. Conti 5. Stoichkov 6. Ballack 7. Zanetti, 8. Costacurta 9. Terry, 10. Pogba, 11. D. Villa
05. antohan - (3. Gerrard) 1. Ljungberg 2. Boniek 4. Effenberg 5. Raul 6. Luis Enrique 7. Hierro 8. T. Silva 9. Ferrara 10. Götze 11. Vieri
06. BorisDeLeFora - (7. Bergomi) 1. Zambrotta 2. Tigana 3. Robson 4. Cerezo 5. Del Piero 6. Klinsmann 8. Lucio 9. Popescu 10. Koke 11. A. Cole
07. ctp - (6. Ribéry) 1. Brolin 2. Lato 3. Xavi 4. Guardiola 5. Shevchenko 7. Kohler 8. Carvalho 9. Kakà 10. Carvajal 11. Evra
08. Skizzo - (7. Brehme) 1. Solskjaer 2. Cabrini 3. Schuster 4. K. Förster 5. Hugo Sanchez 6. Barnes 8. Deschamps 9. McGrain 10. Marquinhos 11. Michel
09. MJJ (Theon) - (4. Dalglish) 1. Di Livio 2. Souness 3. Bochini 5. Rivaldo 6. McGrath 7. Sammer 8. Campbell 9. Totti 10. Ricardo Rodriguez 11. Peter Schmeichel
10. Jayvin - (3. Iniesta) 1. Gallas 2. Vieira 4. Lizarazu 5. Romario 6. Overmars 7. Desailly 8. Blanc 9. Xabi Alonso 10. Hazard 11. Gianluigi Buffon
11. Stobzilla - (8. Jugovic) 1. Camoranesi 2. Hansen 3. Davids 4. Balakov 5. Batistuta 6. Irwin 7. Passarella 9. Pires 10. Strootman 11. Mauro Silva
12. Aldo - (7. Rio) 1. Senna 2. Hagi 3. Pirlo 4. Schweinsteiger 5. RvN 6. Tresor 8. Camacho 9. Gerets 10. Neymar 11. Montero
13. The Red Viper - (5. Simonsen) 1. Prosinečki 2. Robben 3. Scholes 4. Vidic 6. Eto'o 7. Stam 8. Rui Costa 9. Dunga 10. Rafael Da Silva 11. Kahn
14. VivaJanuzaj - (7. Nesta) 1. Francescoli 2. Seedorf 3. Breitner 4. Vierchowod 5. Rummenigge 6. Savicevic 8. Verón 9. Adams 10. Alaba 11. Reuter
15. harms - (1. Puyol) 2. Blokhin 3. Falcao 4. Roberto Carlos 5. Bergkamp 6.Bonhof 7. Ruggeri 8. Willy Ortiz 9. Stielike 10. Varane 11. Kaltz
16. crappycraperson - (7. Cannavaro) 1. Nadal 2. M. Kempes 3. Roy Keane 4. Jan Ceulemans 5. Shearer 6. Prohaska 8. Briegel 9. Ayala 10. Kroos
02. Chesterlestreet - (7. Lahm) 1. Mascherano 2. Nedved 3. Neeskens 4. Beckham 5. Henry 6. Júnior, 8. Buchwald 9. G. Neville 10. J. Rodriguez 11. Augenthaler
03. Joga Bonito - (4. O Ardiles) 1. Keown 2. Baggio 3. Figo 5. Weah 6. Søren Lerby 7. Cafú 8. Koeman 9. De Rossi 10. Juan Bernat 11. Sanchís
04. Raees - (2. Makelele) 1. Morena 3. Socrates 4. Conti 5. Stoichkov 6. Ballack 7. Zanetti, 8. Costacurta 9. Terry, 10. Pogba, 11. D. Villa
05. antohan - (3. Gerrard) 1. Ljungberg 2. Boniek 4. Effenberg 5. Raul 6. Luis Enrique 7. Hierro 8. T. Silva 9. Ferrara 10. Götze 11. Vieri
06. BorisDeLeFora - (7. Bergomi) 1. Zambrotta 2. Tigana 3. Robson 4. Cerezo 5. Del Piero 6. Klinsmann 8. Lucio 9. Popescu 10. Koke 11. A. Cole
07. ctp - (6. Ribéry) 1. Brolin 2. Lato 3. Xavi 4. Guardiola 5. Shevchenko 7. Kohler 8. Carvalho 9. Kakà 10. Carvajal 11. Evra
08. Skizzo - (7. Brehme) 1. Solskjaer 2. Cabrini 3. Schuster 4. K. Förster 5. Hugo Sanchez 6. Barnes 8. Deschamps 9. McGrain 10. Marquinhos 11. Michel
09. MJJ (Theon) - (4. Dalglish) 1. Di Livio 2. Souness 3. Bochini 5. Rivaldo 6. McGrath 7. Sammer 8. Campbell 9. Totti 10. Ricardo Rodriguez 11. Peter Schmeichel
10. Jayvin - (3. Iniesta) 1. Gallas 2. Vieira 4. Lizarazu 5. Romario 6. Overmars 7. Desailly 8. Blanc 9. Xabi Alonso 10. Hazard 11. Gianluigi Buffon
11. Stobzilla - (8. Jugovic) 1. Camoranesi 2. Hansen 3. Davids 4. Balakov 5. Batistuta 6. Irwin 7. Passarella 9. Pires 10. Strootman 11. Mauro Silva
12. Aldo - (7. Rio) 1. Senna 2. Hagi 3. Pirlo 4. Schweinsteiger 5. RvN 6. Tresor 8. Camacho 9. Gerets 10. Neymar 11. Montero
13. The Red Viper - (5. Simonsen) 1. Prosinečki 2. Robben 3. Scholes 4. Vidic 6. Eto'o 7. Stam 8. Rui Costa 9. Dunga 10. Rafael Da Silva 11. Kahn
14. VivaJanuzaj - (7. Nesta) 1. Francescoli 2. Seedorf 3. Breitner 4. Vierchowod 5. Rummenigge 6. Savicevic 8. Verón 9. Adams 10. Alaba 11. Reuter
15. harms - (1. Puyol) 2. Blokhin 3. Falcao 4. Roberto Carlos 5. Bergkamp 6.Bonhof 7. Ruggeri 8. Willy Ortiz 9. Stielike 10. Varane 11. Kaltz
16. crappycraperson - (7. Cannavaro) 1. Nadal 2. M. Kempes 3. Roy Keane 4. Jan Ceulemans 5. Shearer 6. Prohaska 8. Briegel 9. Ayala 10. Kroos
I don't understand this premise whereby if players dribble they can't pass the ball. Both could do both and the choice between doing one or the other is down to decision-making.
I take your point re: Becks/Neville vs. Ronaldo/Reuter, it's valid and complementing each other is hugely relevant. The problem is in your example Ronaldo/Alves doesn't necessarily work either. Ronaldo will always be the better one to have on the ball running at defenders.
So am I the only one who was surprised to see Reuter picked ahead of Kaltz?
I had Stob down as the one who would get him. What with having Batistuta and all. Heartache for the crappy one.
Did he predict that too? I'm not surprised though, it's a pretty obvious pick
So am I the only one who was surprised to see Reuter picked ahead of Kaltz?
That's where I agree with Annah it depends on systems and what's needed from your fb.
Reuter's passing wasn't great that is the issue. Offensively his game was a lot about overlaps on the inside and outside behind the defense. If you want a wing back or full back known for great playmaking and passing range then you'd want to go for somebody else.
I'd have Reuter very far up if the winger wasn't a dribbling type, but rather a Beckham or even Figo type. Reuters runs would cause chaos. Next to a world class dribbler though I wouldn't specifically dream of Reuter.
No, he was the one over whom there was that whole discussion few pages ago where he was mad at me for hinting about Kaltz when I said him and Becks would have been an insane crossing duo for Chester. I presume he was badly hoping to get him (specially now with Vieri!) but couldn't have seen him reach back to him.
Thought crappy was after him as he has been looking at the 50s players from the start and was annoyed at missing out on Gerets.
Probably, I haven't studied the teams of both the managers who picked him so that might be the case yeah.
No there aren't. You're clearly mistaken. I firmly believe this issue is the most important in the world - and I will NEVER relent until the day something is done about this.
It was. Again, styles, he wasn't tasked or expected to be a playmaker from midfield like a Junior but rather to make penetrative runs seeing as Dortmund didn't play wingers. Again, you are concluding things based on falacious observations.
Vieri would've been the perfect one to say "Manni banana, I head, goal", yep.
That was my dilemma back when I picked Ferrara. I was probably going to only have good Lbs in 90s (wrong) and I would have to nail Vieri next so Kaltz wouldn't get back to me.
I still wanted my options open for a back three and a 90s AM if at all available so made a conscious choice to pass on Kaltz out of the three. Would love to get him later if I have the chance.