I am just glad to have both of these two young talented players which we can call our own so i'll just trust Jose to sort this out
The Rashford and Martial predicament
- Thread starter TheReligion
- Start date
In general I agree, but as I said if that attitude was taken all the time football would be duller for it.
Jose seems to be starting Rashford when the score is nil nil , the game is tight and the opposition are well organised to defend . Rashford seems to have more grit and determination and a willingness to track back when required . Once United score and the game opens up a bit , the opposition get a bit leggy it is perfect to bring Martial on to hurt them with his clinical finishing . Early days but seems to be working .
It will change as the season wears on though and the competition between the two can only be a good thing and form , fitness and rotation will play its part .
Good problem to have as they both give us fantastic pace and directness .
It will change as the season wears on though and the competition between the two can only be a good thing and form , fitness and rotation will play its part .
Good problem to have as they both give us fantastic pace and directness .
Yeah I have no problem with trying things in the right situations, maybe he thought the keeper was coming out and tried the dink. Really though it was an awful shot choice, lukaku scores that.
He's doing great work everywhere else just needs to find that finishing touch.
This shouldnt really be a debate, not becaue one is better than the other, but because Rashford isnt a bloody left winger. Rashford should be competing with Lukaku and being back up to him for a bit. I know Martial would probably consider himself a striker too, but he is much more suited to the left wing than an out and out forward. I dont see the skillset with Rashford to be able to play out wide, apart fom pace.
At the moment, Rashford is doing a fine job, and shouldn't be dropped. Yes, Martial has came on in the last couple of games, and bagged himself a goal, but Rashford has done more or less everything aprt from score. Also have to bare in mind that Martial is coming and playing against tired legs. That's not to take anything away from him, though. I do think he's been excellent in the couple of cameo's this season, but as I said, so has Rashford, and for that reason, Jose has no reason to drop him. It's a great problem to have, though. Two fantastic young talents.
In an ideal word; however, I'd like to see the both of them start. Would like to see Martial and the left and Rashford on the right to see how that goes. Especially against compact teams.
In an ideal word; however, I'd like to see the both of them start. Would like to see Martial and the left and Rashford on the right to see how that goes. Especially against compact teams.
Don't want to nitpick but I'd bet a lot of our games start at 0-0. Don't have the exact statistics to back this though.
I disagree with Mourinho and some fans who lump these guys together when they shouldn't be. Even if we assume similar talent (I think Martial has more talent), Martial is more developed due to 2 more years football experience, and more sophisticated due to playing and adjusting outside his home league and country. I think he should be starting with Rashford being his rotating understudy, and not the other way around as the start of this season seems to suggest. SAF's use of Sharpe and Giggs in 1991-3 provides an almost perfect case study.
Regardless, I'm not sure why fans care so much about a players 'predicament'. Fans should worry only about the 'clubs predicament'. ie: our first team has specific needs and requirements every time it plays, in different competitions and at different stages of the season. Whichever player the manager thinks is best suited for those requirements will be selected.
All our players are elite footballers and being paid industry-leading salaries, so it's up to them to make themselves required by the manager and not the other way around. I implicitly trust Mourinho: he makes his footballing decisions purely based on improving his chances of winning matches and trophies. And so if Martial or Rashford does not convince the manager that he deserves to start and is eventually sold, so be it.
The side point is both these players are still underdeveloped to be deserving of starting for an elite CL team. If we take Lukaku and Moratta as prime examples: they both secured their first proper CL team starting striker gig aged 24, and endured squad rotation status or play at lower level teams. Why should it be any different for Rashford or Martial? Both may not make it or might require a season long loan move before they finally earn themselves a genuine 1st XI starting place, and as fans, we should be ready for and accept that.
Regardless, I'm not sure why fans care so much about a players 'predicament'. Fans should worry only about the 'clubs predicament'. ie: our first team has specific needs and requirements every time it plays, in different competitions and at different stages of the season. Whichever player the manager thinks is best suited for those requirements will be selected.
All our players are elite footballers and being paid industry-leading salaries, so it's up to them to make themselves required by the manager and not the other way around. I implicitly trust Mourinho: he makes his footballing decisions purely based on improving his chances of winning matches and trophies. And so if Martial or Rashford does not convince the manager that he deserves to start and is eventually sold, so be it.
The side point is both these players are still underdeveloped to be deserving of starting for an elite CL team. If we take Lukaku and Moratta as prime examples: they both secured their first proper CL team starting striker gig aged 24, and endured squad rotation status or play at lower level teams. Why should it be any different for Rashford or Martial? Both may not make it or might require a season long loan move before they finally earn themselves a genuine 1st XI starting place, and as fans, we should be ready for and accept that.
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Martial over Rashford on the LW
Bad choice of words but I think you get what I mean .
Yeah, of course
Rashford's shooting, defending, dribbling - and as you say - pace are all pretty good for a young left-winger. His link play and crossing will hopefully improve given time and development.
Madrid play Cristiano and sometimes Bale out wide. Juve just made the CL final and won Serie A with Mandzukic at LW. It's not uncommon to play a 2nd goalscorer out wide to give you finishing, another target in the box and a bit of size compared to a smaller trickier winger.
Every game starts as a 0-0, that's a pure fact.
Couldn't disagree with anything said here. Good post.
Good post we should definitely stop ridiculing one player over the other. If we get the title i wouldn't care even if some players don't get enough playing.
I personally love the Rashford for 70 minutes and Martial against tired legs for 20 minutes, I assume Mourinho will manage the situation like that and vice versa. Could even be a 60/30 scenario either way if nothing is coming off for either player. I personally think this will be great for both players development, Martial's especially.
Rashford has more pace and is very direct, but lacks end product right now and seems to be playing with high shoulders. Marital has better technique both dribbling wise and finishing, but seems to fall in and out of games a lot
Imo the best would be to rotate them depending on form and the opposition, where there is room to exploit Rashford is a menace with his insane pace, but against teams that sit deep Martial is the better option
Imo the best would be to rotate them depending on form and the opposition, where there is room to exploit Rashford is a menace with his insane pace, but against teams that sit deep Martial is the better option
I can see but logic but i think the complete opposite right now. What Rashford brings is his pace and movement and thats what you need against a parked defence to move them about, Martial is much more static and then direct so he finds himself running/shooting into congested areas.
In the future when Rashford becomes more clinicial we'll be able to drop this role of a wide workhorse and let him focus on his pace to counter. I think this rotation within a game tactic will help them develop different areas of their game.
Martial------Lukaku------Rashford
Pogba------Herrera
Matic
Would look pretty nice...Pogba------Herrera
Matic
I'd think that if both stay in good form, at some point we will just start playing Rashford out wide on the right and start Martial on the left. Mkhi and Mata tend to drift into similar positions and at times its hard to tell which one is the designated #10 and which is the Rwer, they often rotate multiple times within a game. I'd also think Martial would be capable to play as the 10 in our current formation, despite not having the eye for a decisive pass like Mata and Mkhi, but due to his close control and strength/speed combo will be able to turn on defenders and get into the box, where he is a very adept finisher.
The three behind Lukaku are fairly fluid anyway. But it's easy to see why Jose likes Rashford. His movement is exceptional. He's great on the transition. Works hard. Tracks back. Gets in behind constantly. As he matures he's going to become some player. Both will get plenty of games. It's a long season.
This is anything but a predicament.
This is anything but a predicament.
I think they are both fine and Mourinho is handling them exceptionally. None of them are ready to lead the line for us. However both need games as striker to progress. If they don't then it will be a massive detriment to their progress and the types of players they turn into. I presume their weaknesses are already identified and the hard work put in on the training ground. The only thing now is I hope they play all the cup games....fa and league cup, as strikers along with Romero in goal and Pereira.
Would suffer without Mickys creativity. Here we are relying too heavily on Pogba, and to a lesser extent Herrera, to create.
Neither Martial nor Rashford are actually wingers and I don't think they are exactly what Mourinho wants. We all know that both are actually forwards. In Martial's case he operates from the left but his intention is to create an opening and score. Rashford is more like a pure striker but can do few things which wingers can.
Think that is the reason why Rashford is preferred and will continue to be selected above Martial. We should be thankful that Mourinho is at least considering going ahead with Rashford and has not got a pure winger like Perisic. Normally, Mourinho would have benched both and would have replaced them with a new signing.
Mourinho does not care about big scorelines. A win is enough for him and I think he feels that a proper winger add's the right balance. Rashford is able to do this and now Martial is also picking these skills up. I really like Martial and think he is technically superior to Rashford, but this is the difference between Mourinho and Pep.
Pep goes insane looking at a players footy skills and forgets about the role the player is playing. For Mourinho however, the player needs to be able to perform the role he is playing. A defender should be able to win tackles and clear the ball, a winger should be able to make runs, put crosses and assist the forwards. Rashford is better at doing this than Martial. Martial is improving in this aspect. Martial's finishing skills are far superior to Rashford but that is not his role.
Still, playing Martial changes our tactics a bit and gives teams something else to think about. Think Martial will always tend to play the way he played when he was under Van Gaal, which is wait for the ball and move with the ball, no matter how much he is coached differently. It is really great to have this option of being able to tweak the way we attack by bringing on Martial (or playing him from the start).
For now though, playing Rashford from the start is helping us win so I don't see any reason to change things. Still Rashford, needs to start putting his chances away. In any case, it is great to see that both Martial and Rashford, who are very young are a making good progress.
Think that is the reason why Rashford is preferred and will continue to be selected above Martial. We should be thankful that Mourinho is at least considering going ahead with Rashford and has not got a pure winger like Perisic. Normally, Mourinho would have benched both and would have replaced them with a new signing.
Mourinho does not care about big scorelines. A win is enough for him and I think he feels that a proper winger add's the right balance. Rashford is able to do this and now Martial is also picking these skills up. I really like Martial and think he is technically superior to Rashford, but this is the difference between Mourinho and Pep.
Pep goes insane looking at a players footy skills and forgets about the role the player is playing. For Mourinho however, the player needs to be able to perform the role he is playing. A defender should be able to win tackles and clear the ball, a winger should be able to make runs, put crosses and assist the forwards. Rashford is better at doing this than Martial. Martial is improving in this aspect. Martial's finishing skills are far superior to Rashford but that is not his role.
Still, playing Martial changes our tactics a bit and gives teams something else to think about. Think Martial will always tend to play the way he played when he was under Van Gaal, which is wait for the ball and move with the ball, no matter how much he is coached differently. It is really great to have this option of being able to tweak the way we attack by bringing on Martial (or playing him from the start).
For now though, playing Rashford from the start is helping us win so I don't see any reason to change things. Still Rashford, needs to start putting his chances away. In any case, it is great to see that both Martial and Rashford, who are very young are a making good progress.
If they can indeed share that slot all season and let mata mhiki lingard and whoever else we sign (maybe perisic) fight out the other two spots I think they will get more than enough football this year. We are fighting on all fronts. If Lukaku gets an injury then they might even end up overworked
Actually, would Lukaku have run so well with the ball at all? Haven't seen many goals from him where he has run at pace with the ball at his feet and scored. Might be wrong. Just checking.
Yeah, he runs with the ball fine. Check some of his goals for Everton. Infact he nearly did a great solo dribble in the first 3 minutes against Swansea.
Rashford is a better left winger than he is a striker as the kid can't finish so i'd much rather have him as a left winger or back up for left wing than back up for Lukaku. We will struggle to score if Rashford replaces Lukaku up front due to injury or rotation.
It's funny how people expect rashford to be this complete footballer at 19. If his name was rashiniho,people here would have raved over him.
Ffs he is 19 and has already plated more than 70 odd games for Manchester United. Jose admires his work ethics and if jose does then there must be something special . He specifically said the boy trains extra and wants to be the best. So yeah I trust jose and I do feel we have a special talent in rashford who just needs to work on his finishing.
Ffs he is 19 and has already plated more than 70 odd games for Manchester United. Jose admires his work ethics and if jose does then there must be something special . He specifically said the boy trains extra and wants to be the best. So yeah I trust jose and I do feel we have a special talent in rashford who just needs to work on his finishing.
If his name was Rashinho he'd have been scrutinized to death and not given much leeway by neither fans nor media. Rashford being a local lad from the academy has afforded his HUGE leeway to the point everything bad he does is forgiven. I've seen people twisting his misses into some positive things with explanations ranging from "No one else would have spotted the run" to "He carried the ball 30 yards before missing".
It's a good thing he is Rashford because that makes him English and a local lad, any other scenario and he'd have been crucified for his constant missing of sitters.
Maybe crucified by the media but not by our fans. It seems for some reason some of our fans always think any forward that comes from our academy can only be the next welbeck or lingard. That's why I said if he was a Brazilian , we fans would have worshiped him.
Problem solved - whoever comes on as sub scores.
They should help each other with thier deficiencies to make them bothe better players. Rashford to show martial how to have better off the ball movement and Martial to show rashford how to be ice cold infront of the goal
Don Balon offered us another solution ... Barca are going to buy Rashford and fix this..
As I mentioned in the match day thread, Rashford starts Martial scores, Martial starts, Rashford scores.
So, we should expect 38 goals between them in the league
So, we should expect 38 goals between them in the league
The perfect counter attacking lineup in the bigger and tougher games, but cannot see Jose dropping assist united king Mkhi, plus both guys are great has impact, starting both gives up our plan B pretty quickly, best to use one of these guys pace has an impact sub once we wearing them down
I agree, I really felt, when Rashford was starting, that he was running rings around their defence, tiring them out and softening them up. Then Martial came on to deal the killer blow. The other way round when Martial started.
Imagine being a defender, the relief of Rashford coming off only to see Martial coming on, no wonder they concede soon afterwards, they are demoralised.
I agree, I really felt, when Rashford was starting, that he was running rings around their defence, tiring them out and softening them up. Then Martial came on to deal the killer blow. The other way round when Martial started.
Imagine being a defender, the relief of Rashford coming off only to see Martial coming on, no wonder they concede soon afterwards, they are demoralised.
Yep, think using both we lose the Ace in the hole, martial and rashford both know what their impact does to teams. I do think if we use both it could hurt our chances of 3 points, obvious we need to address this attacking option so we won't need to keep needing to use subs. Both players obvious need to improve. Its a shame we won't be adding another attacking outlet considering our rivals are trying to add more
Martial is a better wide forward, Rashford is a better winger. If only one of them can play at a time, then the choice comes down to the leftback behind them. Whilst it's Blind, Rashford is the better option. If it's Shaw or Young, I'd go with Martial.