I don't understand why English fans can't not overrate the PL. Everyone in Europe likes it because it's fun to watch but the level of the teams isn't particularly high, the middle table teams are as strong as the Spanish or German ones and at the moment the top teams are pretty weak but that's only momentary. When I look at some of the french players playing in the PL, I can't help but laugh, most of those players were considered as dross in the french league and the french league isn't great.
The quality of the premiership is shocking
- Thread starter C'est Moi Cantona
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United have a worse record against Dutch teams this season than against British teams. Arsenal have a much worse record against Greek teams this season than against domestic rivals, also they have a higher ratio of losses per game against Croatian sides. West Ham have lost as many away games to Maltese teams as they have to English teams and have worse record against Romanian clubs than against English teams. Southampton have a better win % against English teams than Danish.
They should all be proud of the quality their league could produce. Those English teams would drop a lot more points if they were to play PSV, Astra, Birkirkara and Mitjylland in the league.
What? English teams have cherry picked the best players from Ligue 1. Every single French player from PL was in ToY in France at least three times.
Isn't it ironic that at a time when English clubs get knocked out from Europe by Astra and Mitjylland, PL lovers reckon Bayern and Barcelona would drop points left, right and centre in Premier League?
German clubs have a horrendous record against English sides over the last 3/4 years. It's not a Leap that Bayern would find facing English sides that little bit harder.
It's not just the quality but it's such hard work playing in England, it's a real grind that can wear you down
It's not just the quality but it's such hard work playing in England, it's a real grind that can wear you down
Yeah, the best players in the world generally play in Spain and others for Bayern, but this is so much more than that. The horrific thing in Europe is that it's not as if the English sides do well and only lose to Real, Barca and Bayern. United could be going to out Wolfsburg and PSV, Arsenal to Olympiakos and Chelsea have a decisive match with Porto while Dynamo Kiev are almost certain to qualify. Who put the ball in the English net? Half fecking Europe. It's like regression to the early 90s, after the English sides returned from the ban. And I really don't know why.
We've been rebuilding and haven't found the right form at right time which has cost us. Chelsea are having a freak season. Arsenal have a ton of injuries. In tournament football, so much is decided in single games so a wrong tactical decision, bad luck or just a bad performance can see you out of the tournament. Take last year's Chelsea v. PSG match, Chelsea should have won it but Mourinho's insistence on keeping it tight and not killing of the game meant PSG came back and won the game. Had Chelsea killed it off, they could have made a serious challenge for the Champions League considering they were doing pretty well in the league. Conversely, it was luck and playing really defensively that won them the CL in 2012.
English teams have the financial capability to compete and even the players to an extent, its just getting all of the pieces of the puzzle together.
To be fair if Lyon beat Valencia they'll be out, Sevilla will probably finished bottom and Atletico could finish 2nd if they lose away to Benfica. If we beat Wolfsburg only Bayern will qualify from the four German teams. Other than Bayern/Real/Barca, teams from those leagues have performed pretty poorly in this years CL.
I think part of it is that teams, particularly the ones competing to win the league, rely on competition from each other to push up their standards. You only have to be better than your rivals to get what you want, so if your rivals are goood you aspire to be better, if your rivals are bad you just have to be less bad...and at the top of the league at least, there just hasn't been anyone really pushing the standards up for a while now.
For example you had the Arsenal Invincibles who raised the bar for anyone who wanted to win the league, so then from that came Mourinho's Chelsea, which meant Fergie and United had to raise their standards a fair bit to compete, and then you had the United side of 2007-2009, so the other teams again had to raise their game just to keep up...you had a while where you had to be really fecking good just to be a top 4 team. After that though it just kind of lulled a bit for a few years, which was bound to happen...but from that you had us winning at a canter, and then instead of someone else having to step up to catch us, Fergie retired and we turned really crap, so there was nothing to raise the bar against...and there hasn't been really since. Last season Chelsea won at a stroll which you think might have pushed other teams to sort themselves out, but then this season Chelsea have done a Moyes as well...which means there really is no set standard.
Sort of like if you're in a race and there's one or two guys ahead who are that bit faster, you'd think "I can catch them" and find a way to make yourself faster, by training harder or working harder on something. If you're in a race and everyone else trips over their own feet or ends up half a mile behind you, you'd probably just go home and have a pizza and not worry about it.
I don't think the middle or lower part of the league has necesserily changed that much. You still have good football teams like Everton, Spurs, etc...or surprise teams like Leicester. There's not really been a time when these teams wouldn't struggle against their European counterparts...occasionally one does well in the Europa League but I can't remember there being a point where the not so giant European teams weren't generally a lot stronger than people in England ever seem to give them credit for.
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We have hard games to grind out every week, Germany have whatever the Premier League don't want yet.
Don't bother, what's actually happening is that despite British clubs literally cherry picking all the best players from abroad to the point where German papers are even mocking the clubs, we're getting much weaker.
You can see the strength in the premier league every weekend. It's a cracking league.
Are you wumming?
No. It's a fact, that's just how it is.
The three relegated teams last year got more income from television than every club in Germany bar Bayern Munich put together. That's the disparity these clubs are running at. Premier league clubs like Leicester, Stoke, Liverpool and Tottenham got the pick of the bunch thisyear.
How is that a fact? English clubs don't sign the best Germans, Italians or Spanish players. Those players season after season sign for Juventus, Atletico, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Bayern, Dortmund, Leverkusen, Schalke or Wolfsburg. That's what happens each and every year, sometimes those clubs let English clubs have their rejects at an exorbitant price.
The very best players in Germany sign for Bayern. The rest come to the Premier League.
The very best players in Germany sign for Bayern. The rest come to the Premier League.
Like Ginter, Reus, Gundogan, Geis, Draxler, Kruse, Kramer and others? At the exception of Schurrle and De Bruyne who joined the PL while rated?
Where is that plethora of German players filling english teams?
Dortmund admittedly also can currently keep up with the allure of the PL, but you're kidding if you think English clubs aren't raiding their German counterparts.
As the transfer window closed this year one paper had a headline along the lines of "Please shut the window now, there's a draft".
Who are all these highly rated German or formerly German based players who English teams have snapped up?
I can only think of De Bruyne and he went to City, who generally can attract good players anyway.
Other than that, I dunno...Spurs signed some guy...Liverpool bought Ferminho but in fairness, he's a bit crap. All of the actual good players I can think of who were playing in Germany last year, are currently playing in Germany
I can only think of De Bruyne and he went to City, who generally can attract good players anyway.
Other than that, I dunno...Spurs signed some guy...Liverpool bought Ferminho but in fairness, he's a bit crap. All of the actual good players I can think of who were playing in Germany last year, are currently playing in Germany
So you are basing everything on the german press making fun of the english press? Because there is no raid, there is a lot of paper pretending that Leverkusen are going to cave under Arsenal financial power which has not happened, they pretend that Dortmund can be forced into selling Gundogan, Hummels or Reus which has not happened, English clubs can't buy players from Schalke despite their debt, City had to mortgage the prince palace to buy De Bruyne from Wolfsburg, and you convinced yourself that a raid was going on.
What kind of dream world are you living in? The reactions to the spending of English clubs have been mixed, some of course have stated their worries about so much money, but others such as Heidel and I believe Rummenigge have also stated that the fees and wages paid by English clubs are so way over the top that this might actually turn out to be a good thing for German clubs, because they can use their scouting to replace their losses much cheaper. Such as for example Leverkusen who sold Son for €30m and used that money to buy Kampl and Chicharito for little over €10m each - both of whome have probably been their best attackers this season.
And I find it hard to believe that a serious paper wrote anything along the lines of what you are suggesting.
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You really live in some alrernate reality. I swear you must wake up every day screaming 'I love Premier League'.
There are some people deluded about apparent quality of the league here but you're by far the worst. Who are these German players cherry picked by PL teams? Fuchs whose contract wasn't extended in Germany?
Money doesn't equal quality. West Ham are probably 20 times richer than Astra Giurgiu yet they didn't stand a chance against them. It's clear by looking at Europe how far behind English clubs have fallen. They've been nothing but abysmal in European competition but yeah, I know it's because incredible quality of Norwich and West Brom makes them this bad in Europe.
People keep comparing the current top teams to Barcelona, Bayern and Madrid. Chuck that, the top teams are poor in comparison to previous premier league title contenders. I mean it's really gotten a bit shit hasn't it? Earlier you had United, Chelsea and Arsenal with truly brilliant teams, and now you've got sides that are so unconvincing no one can figure out which one of them will get their act together and win it.
In fact, this is so far possibly the poorest year of the lot. At least last season Chelsea showed proper consistently and played like champions in the first half of the season even though they were relatively medocre compared to past champions. But this season it's awful. We can barely score goals and were right up there.
In fact, this is so far possibly the poorest year of the lot. At least last season Chelsea showed proper consistently and played like champions in the first half of the season even though they were relatively medocre compared to past champions. But this season it's awful. We can barely score goals and were right up there.
De Bruyne?
Firminio?
Joselu?
Schweinsteiger?
Worscheild?
Son?
Okazaki?
Worschield?
Baba Rahman?
That assessment is spot on.
Yes, yes - I know what you mean. The problem is that it isn't quantifiable. My gut says you're probably right, but it's impossible to prove.
You forgot to write Chicharito there, right? That's the second attacker you meant with 'both'? The Son example is so laughable. Leverkusen bought a better attacker for their team from United for a 3rd of what they got for Son, they made almost 20m profit while improving their attack by dealing with PL clubs.
yeah
Wollsheild is so amazing you had him twice. He was actually out of favour at Leverkusen and loaned from one club to another. Joselu wasn't great either. Schweinsteiger spent his best years in Bundesliga. Son, De Bruyne and Firmino are the only ones who were good in Bundesliga and went to PL at their best in huge money moves.
So basically the rest are mid-table English sides buying average mid-table German players who are not wanted by top German teams. Yay, PL pisses all over rest of Europe.
Eric Wollsheild-Wollsheild
Also how is his name actually spelt?...you've both spelt it completely differently and on the BBC website it's spelt differently again, and then on another website it's spelt differently again.
How can it be possible for no one in the entire world to know how someone's name is spelt like? It's literally written on his back
How can it be possible for no one in the entire world to know how someone's name is spelt like? It's literally written on his back
I actually had to google where Wollscheid plays right now . Is he doing well at Stoke? I really rated him as a talent at Nürnberg, but he has been a disaster over the last 3 years. It would be great if he can turn his career around.
. Is he doing well at Stoke? I really rated him as a talent at Nürnberg, but he has been a disaster over the last 3 years. It would be great if he can turn his career around.I can see the correlation between more money for all PL teams and a more competitive league, but why would it lead to a decline in quality among top teams? They have more money too. They're just using it less effectively than the other top European teams.
Because the rest of the Premier League is now of a higher standard, meaning it takes more to beat them, meaning it is harder to maintain fitness and remain injury free in England.
Schweinsteger was allowed to leave on the cheap as a goodwill gesture for all his years of service. Like Utd have for good servants on the past. Bayern no longer required himThat's still about the league being more competitive. It doesn't explain why the top English teams get worse. And they are demonstrably worse.
It's extremely difficult to sustain selling your best players and replacing them every year though. You will always be playing catchup.
There is no upside to becoming a selling league or team. Im sure the likes of Ajax / West Ham / Valencia /Arsenal / Southampton etc thought they cracked the code but one bad recruitment summer and they're set back a long way.
Erm...
Are they? How is this proven?
Replace him with Prodl then.