The quality of the premiership is shocking

Revan said:
Atletico Madrid, PSG and Juve are all better than anything EPL has to offer.

So, yeah, 6 better teams than any team in EPL.

In UEFA coefficients, there is a single EPL team in top 10. And that is more objective than us speculating, because it is based on results not opinions.
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And that's Chelsea who are 15th in the PL -- ie it's all fairly meaningless because United missed one season in the CL because in other leagues they would have qualified for the CL , sort of defeats its own arguments
 
KingMinger22 said:
This.



And definitely this.

6-20 positions are MILES ahead of anywhere else in Europe. 1-6 are poor compared to their peers right now.

It will change. Finances are everything in professional sports. Just not always instant or over the short term.
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What's the reason for English teams being absolutely terrible in Europe?

As I said, Serie A has 8 teams competing for the title. It's way more competitive than PL.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
And that's Chelsea who are 15th in the PL -- ie it's all fairly meaningless because United missed one season in the CL because in other leagues they would have qualified for the CL , sort of defeats its own arguments
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Chelsea have been shit this season, but they are the only English team who hasn't been shit in Europe in the last few years.

United wouldn't quality in Europe in 13-14, don't be this close minded. We finished below Everton and Spurs for feck sake.
 
Revan said:
Chelsea have been shit this season, but they are the only English team who hasn't been shit in Europe in the last few years.

United wouldn't quality in Europe in 13-14, don't be this close minded. We finished below Everton and Spurs for feck sake.
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So in the season where we were not good enough to qualify for Europe we thrash a German team so we wouldn't be good enough to qualify from the German league, OK
So if we had been in the French Ligue 1 we wouldn't have been good enough to finish in the first 3 or the Italian league , hmmm OK - and you mention Everton and Spurs finishing above us that season which even further shows the strength of the PL and that PL teams have far more difficult matches to play week in week out which is the whole point,

I must ask myself why I and millions of others watch the PL and don't choose to watch other leagues , why does the PL get seen by so many more people than any other league - I know, it's because it's so crap, full of crap teams full of crap players , I mean why do TV companies pay so much to show the PL when it's so crap - why does Canal+ in France show 5 PL matches every weekend even more than Ligue 1 and all the other leagues put together - what could be the reason, are they so stupid
 
Paul the Wolf said:
So in the season where we were not good enough to qualify for Europe we thrash a German team so we wouldn't be good enough to qualify from the German league, OK
So if we had been in the French Ligue 1 we wouldn't have been good enough to finish in the first 3 or the Italian league , hmmm OK - and you mention Everton and Spurs finishing above us that season which even further shows the strength of the PL and that PL teams have far more difficult matches to play week in week out which is the whole point,
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And when Everton/SPurs go to Europe, they embarras themselves.

Paul the Wolf said:
I must ask myself why I and millions of others watch the PL and don't choose to watch other leagues , why does the PL get seen by so many more people than any other league - I know, it's because it's so crap, full of crap teams full of crap players , I mean why do TV companies pay so much to show the PL when it's so crap - why does Canal+ in France show 5 PL matches every weekend even more than Ligue 1 and all the other leagues put together - what could be the reason, are they so stupid
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Do you also think that Justin Bieber and Psy are the best singers in the world, and that Avatar is the best movie of all time? Or that Dan Brown is the best current writer?
 
C'est Moi Cantona said:
For the self proclaimed 'best league in the world' the current quality level is just too low, we are all light years behind Bayern, Madrid, and Barca, to have Leicester with players like Morgan, Simpson, Albrighton, and Huth sat top of the league is embarrassing for English football imo.

I don't know what the problem is but it seems to be getting worse, if it's as simple as giving them a winter break then just give it to them, but it has to be more than that....
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As others have pointed out, I'll take a league with a modicum of predictability any day over a league which has the same team(s) dominating year-in, year-out.
 
Revan said:
And when Everton/SPurs go to Europe, they embarras themselves.


Do you also think that Justin Bieber and Psy are the best singers in the world, and that Avatar is the best movie of all time? Or that Dan Brown is the best current writer?
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Everton beat Wolfsburg home and away and topped their group - a team that that are supposedly equal to the best in the PL
They both made it to the knockout stages,

Your other point makes no sense
 
Revan said:
United spent 250m pounds these 2 years. City spent even more. Atletico didn't spent that much in 5 years. Hence, City and United piss all over Atletico.

Logic!
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United spent 108m Pounds last summer
Atletico spent 140m Euros which is about the same give or take.
Those poor paupers playing on scraps..
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Everton beat Wolfsburg home and away and topped their group - a team that that are supposedly equal to the best in the PL
They both made it to the knockout stages,

Your other point makes no sense
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You are looking now at isolated results, something that you didn't seem to like when it comes to City/Juve.

UEFA coefficients look at all results for the last 5 years. While by no means perfect, it is a better way than judging things subjectively.

The last point makes sense in the way: you were basically saying that EPL is the best because it watched by most people. Then by the same logic you should agree that Justin Bieber or Psy are the best singers and Avatar is the best movie.
 
I now officially claim that Sevilla are now the best team in Europe following the arguments on here as they have beaten both Barca and RM
Second are Celta Vigo having beaten Barca 4-1
Third are Borussia Mönchengladbach having beaten Bayern 3-1

However as City beat Sevilla both home and away and have also beaten Borussia Mönchengladbach in the CL this season - this must make them the most fantastic team in living memory
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I now officially claim that Sevilla are now the best team in Europe following the arguments on here as they have beaten both Barca and RM
Second are Celta Vigo having beaten Barca 4-1
Third are Borussia Mönchengladbach having beaten Bayern 3-1

However as City beat Sevilla both home and away and have also beaten Borussia Mönchengladbach in the CL this season - this must make them the most fantastic team in living memory
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This is sort of your logic - we beat Leverkusen so we'd make CL in Bundesliga.
 
Revan said:
You are looking now at isolated results, something that you didn't seem to like when it comes to City/Juve.

UEFA coefficients look at all results for the last 5 years. While by no means perfect, it is a better way than judging things subjectively.

The last point makes sense in the way: you were basically saying that EPL is the best because it watched by most people. Then by the same logic you should agree that Justin Bieber or Psy are the best singers and Avatar is the best movie.
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I thought that was what we were supposed to be doing
The Uefa coefficients is my point - it is much more difficult for the PL teams to qualify every season even with 4 places - United being the perfect example

The point you make is short term fame/like/popularity - this PL issue is over a very long period of time you can't compare
 
jem said:
As others have pointed out, I'll take a league with a modicum of predictability any day over a league which has the same team(s) dominating year-in, year-out.
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Thats what people don't understand about why our league is the most popular worldwide, I can't think of a sport that has 1 or 2 competitors dominating that is widely popular. A sport always spikes in popularity when a new rival emerges.
American sport has a huge following in Asia and that follows the draft system and the playoffs. Very few teams / dynasties are allowed to dominate and the teams that do are soon hated. I can see why they would gravitate towards English football over the rest. Lack of diverse competition at the tailend fails to attract their support imo.
Nothing to do with marketing or what language is used
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I thought that was what we were supposed to be doing
The Uefa coefficients is my point - it is much more difficult for the PL teams to qualify every season even with 4 places - United being the perfect example

The point you make is short term fame/like/popularity - this PL issue is over a very long period of time you can't compare
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Wonder how it'll be with 3.
 
cyberman said:
TBF German teams have a really poor record against English sides over the last 4/5 years
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Yes but it doesn't mean that United of 13-14 would make it into CL in Germany. We were definitely worse than Bayern and Dortmund for starters. It's hard to say but I definitely wouldn't base it on doing well against Leverkusen in CL in two games when we were abysmal in the second half of season, not the first half in which we played Leverkusen and actually managed to stay around top 4 domestically.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
Germany are not so safe - and France could be down to 2 with Russia threatening

United's match in Wolfsburg is more important than ever
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Yep. Three horse race for two position.

Agree for the last point. But mostly, cause it would be shit if we don't qualify for the next stage in what was a relatively easy group.
 
The debate on the quality has transformed (as always) in "we are richer and more global".
Leicester will not win the league, will be probably City or United, the teams that have invested more , there is no secret.
As there is no dominant teams(in my opinion simply for inconsistency) then you enjoy that is unpredictable.
As stated in other threads I think it's a tactical problem . Besides, teams should invest differently(scouts) to avoid paying crazy amounts for players who come for two or three million euros to la liga.

In this case I don´t understand all the posts about European competitions and comparisons with Bundesliga/la Liga.The question of this thread would have to be answered directly by Premier League viewers without going into comparisons with other leagues or trying to justify everything.
 
Revan said:
And when Everton/SPurs go to Europe, they embarras themselves.
....
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I can't speak for Everton, but it certainly isn't true of Spurs. We did rather well in our only CL outing to date and we usually usually make it at least beyond the group stages of the EL ... which is why we're always in Pot 1 for EL draws.
 
GlastonSpur said:
I can't speak for Everton, but it certainly isn't true of Spurs. We did rather well in our only CL outing to date and we usually usually make it at least beyond the group stages of the EL ... which is why we're always in Pot 1 for EL draws.
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You did great in UCL, true, but not that good in Europe.

If we assume that you are as good as Sevilla - which certainly is given the impression from EPL defenders - then you should have a shot of winning Europa, considering that you have an experienced squad in that competition.
 
No other top league is as competitive and thus as unpredictable as the Prem. In a hypothetical giant league competition containing all the Prem clubs and all the clubs from any other single top league that you care to name, the Prem clubs would have the higher average league finishing position and points total ... by far.
 
The amount of money in the prem is leading to some really poor decisions in the transfer window which in turn is negating the benefits of having so much money. If the prem teams end up sorting themselves out, given the financial difference between the premiership and the other big leagues, this conversation wouldn't even be worth having.

While you can sit there and talk about Bojan and Shaqiri at stoke, you can't deny that Adam, Walters and Whealan also get lots of minutes there. This makes them a mediocre side cause football is an 11 man game.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
France could be down to 2 with Russia threatening
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We already only have 2 as the 3rd never makes the playoffs but we could be down to only PSG. If Russia gets ahead we can still beat Portugal.
 
Paul the Wolf said:
I must ask myself why I and millions of others watch the PL and don't choose to watch other leagues , why does the PL get seen by so many more people than any other league - I know, it's because it's so crap, full of crap teams full of crap players , I mean why do TV companies pay so much to show the PL when it's so crap - why does Canal+ in France show 5 PL matches every weekend even more than Ligue 1 and all the other leagues put together - what could be the reason, are they so stupid
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This one is a mystery really. I think its a snowball effect. Since the prem got crazy momentum in the mid 2000's it really didn't lost it. At that time it was the best league in the world. Somehow despite losing that, the league hasn't gone backwards in attractiveness to football fans in general. In fact, its getting more popular hence the new deal. As long as it makes business people will keep supporting it, and at this very moment it does.

Serie A is obviously just as good as the prem. In terms of the quality of football and the quality of the players. Why people don't watch it currently? Well its had a reputation since the scandal for shelving out some rather low quality tumescent affairs. This stigma has stuck and people still to this day don't really bother with the league. I do and argued last season that the leagues were on a par with each other. I also know that no one around me actually watches the league.
 
RooneyLegend said:
This one is a mystery really. I think its a snowball effect. Since the prem got crazy momentum in the mid 2000's it really didn't lost it. At that time it was the best league in the world. Somehow despite losing that, the league hasn't gone backwards in attractiveness to football fans in general. In fact, its getting more popular hence the new deal. As long as it makes business people will keep supporting it, and at this very moment it does.

Serie A is obviously just as good as the prem. In terms of the quality of football and the quality of the players. Why people don't watch it currently? Well its had a reputation since the scandal for shelving out some rather low quality tumescent affairs. This stigma has stuck and people still to this day don't really bother with the league. I do and argued last season that the leagues were on a par with each other. I also know that no one around me actually watches the league.
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It has a lot to do also with the tempo of the league. Serie A is slower and more disciplined than EPL. EPL is more chaotic and faster. More attractive.

I don't like Serie A. It is possible that it has the same quality as EPL, but I don't like it that much. But then, I didn't like it that much even when it was the top league around.

La Liga is the best in quality, easily, why also is quite attractive and astute tactically. Bundesliga is in some aspects similar to EPL, exciting. But probably more disciplined.

One thing that I don't like in EPL is the underdog mentality. Teams set up to not lose, rather than win like in Spain. Small teams defend with 10 men, and so you rarely see the results 6-0 like in Spain when even the small teams think to attack Barca and Madrid. The biggest problem is that this gets translated to Europe and then you see big English teams setting up with 10 defenders when they play European top teams. But unlike the small English teams who do it week in week out and are good at it, big English teams don't do it efficiently.
 
Revan said:
It has a lot to do also with the tempo of the league. Serie A is slower and more disciplined than EPL. EPL is more chaotic and faster. More attractive.

I don't like Serie A. It is possible that it has the same quality as EPL, but I don't like it that much. But then, I didn't like it that much even when it was the top league around.

La Liga is the best in quality, easily, why also is quite attractive and astute tactically. Bundesliga is in some aspects similar to EPL, exciting. But probably more disciplined.

One thing that I don't like in EPL is the underdog mentality. Teams set up to not lose, rather than win like in Spain. Small teams defend with 10 men, and so you rarely see the results 6-0 like in Spain when even the small teams think to attack Barca and Madrid. The biggest problem is that this gets translated to Europe and then you see big English teams setting up with 10 defenders when they play European top teams. But unlike the small English teams who do it week in week out and are good at it, big English teams don't do it efficiently.
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In Spain they don't have goal difference so teams can afford to go to Madrid and Barca with no fear of a hiding. A couple of hidings v the big teams in England could be the difference between staying up or going down.
That's also why Madrid and Barca seem to stroll second halves of games, there is no point in the opposition wasting their energy and risking cards while they're already buried when they have a real game (relative to their situation) a few days later.
 
Sarni said:
Absolute nonsense based on nothing but your crazy perception of PL being incredibly strong. They are miles ahead of any PL team.
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At this point in time:
Madrid - no, Barca - yes, Bayern - yes.
 
In my futsal league team there are 8 lads who constantly browsing any live scores and such in the dressing room and would watch every single game available to them (incl. Honduras segunda division or whatever it may be called).

What they only speak about is EPL. And 5 of them are Barca/Real fans! The only thing outside of EPL they're interested in is El Clasico and Bayern-Dortmund clashes. And occasionally our domestic footie which is saddly devoid of any quality - bar the National Team who are serving some top cluss stuff at last.

You'll genuinely learn more about Suderland - Stoke game from people than about any clash between superior teams in Spain (bar El Clasico) let alone Italy.

Yes, I'd say EPL is the most entertaining league, despite not being the best for a few years now.
 
Revan said:
It has a lot to do also with the tempo of the league. Serie A is slower and more disciplined than EPL. EPL is more chaotic and faster. More attractive.

I don't like Serie A. It is possible that it has the same quality as EPL, but I don't like it that much. But then, I didn't like it that much even when it was the top league around.

La Liga is the best in quality, easily, why also is quite attractive and astute tactically. Bundesliga is in some aspects similar to EPL, exciting. But probably more disciplined.

One thing that I don't like in EPL is the underdog mentality. Teams set up to not lose, rather than win like in Spain. Small teams defend with 10 men, and so you rarely see the results 6-0 like in Spain when even the small teams think to attack Barca and Madrid. The biggest problem is that this gets translated to Europe and then you see big English teams setting up with 10 defenders when they play European top teams. But unlike the small English teams who do it week in week out and are good at it, big English teams don't do it efficiently.
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Fighting fire with fire when you have a match stick and the opposition has a volcano is never the brightest idea. Playing without in intent to win and playing great back foot football are two different things altogether. Seems this is getting lost in this current period of football.

The small teams in la liga are poor though. Tactically and technically. There's way to many spanish players at the wrong end of the log. While its true that spain probably has the highest quality of players around currently, there's no one that's going to convince me that the 200th best spanish player is better than the 40 best argentina or brazilian, and most of those in that rank are stuck in brazil dreaming of an european move.

I do agree the league is better, however that's cause of the top half of the table not the bottom half. The bottom is filled with some extreme levels of mediocrity that match the excellence of the other side hence the outrageous scores non competitiveness.
 
RooneyLegend said:
Fighting fire with fire when you have a match stick and the opposition has a volcano is never the brightest idea. Playing without in intent to win and playing great back foot football are two different things altogether. Seems this is getting lost in this current period of football.

The small teams in la liga are poor though. Tactically and technically. There's way to many spanish players at the wrong end of the log. While its true that spain probably has the highest quality of players around currently, there's no one that's going to convince me that the 200th best spanish player is better than the 40 best argentina or brazilian, and most of those in that rank are stuck in brazil dreaming of an european move.

I do agree the league is better, however that's cause of the top half of the table not the bottom half. The bottom is filled with some extreme levels of mediocrity that match the excellence of the other side hence the outrageous scores non competitiveness.
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From a pragmatic point of view, definitely. EPL is more pragmatic than any other leagues. Financially, staying in EPL is more important than staying in other teams.

I don't like EPL teams going full defensive in UCL though. Not only now when it can be justified, but even in the past when the teams were quite good, they were still going quite defensive when they met Barcas of this world.
 
Think the criticism on City is a bit harsh. They are missing a fully fit Aguero, Kompany, Zabaleta and Toure. Take away 4 key players from Bayern, Real, Barca and watch how they'll lose significantly more points in the league.
 
RooneyLegend said:
This one is a mystery really. I think its a snowball effect. Since the prem got crazy momentum in the mid 2000's it really didn't lost it. At that time it was the best league in the world. Somehow despite losing that, the league hasn't gone backwards in attractiveness to football fans in general. In fact, its getting more popular hence the new deal. As long as it makes business people will keep supporting it, and at this very moment it does.

Serie A is obviously just as good as the prem. In terms of the quality of football and the quality of the players. Why people don't watch it currently? Well its had a reputation since the scandal for shelving out some rather low quality tumescent affairs. This stigma has stuck and people still to this day don't really bother with the league. I do and argued last season that the leagues were on a par with each other. I also know that no one around me actually watches the league.
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Premium coverage is a huge factor. La Liga and Serie A broadcast quality is significantly worse with less money being put into it, and marketing is non-existent compared to Premier League. Stadiums, atmosphere, quality broadcasting, marketing - they're main factors, not the quality of football.
 
Is the PL more competitive because all the teams are really good or because all the teams are really shit?
 
VorZakone said:
Think the criticism on City is a bit harsh. They are missing a fully fit Aguero, Kompany, Zabaleta and Toure. Take away 4 key players from Bayern, Real, Barca and watch how they'll lose significantly more points in the league.
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You mean something like having only one fit central defender for months or missing your two star wingers like Bayern?
 
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