The pressure and weight of expectation being placed upon Ugarte as some kind of saviour figure

Valencia Shin Crosses said:
I mean that was more so people rolling their eyes at Ten Hag saying he might not be ready for a month while he went out and ran games for Uruguay.

I’d actually argue there’s not much pressure at all because most people expect our midfield to still be shit and there’s not any optimism at all.
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Yes with little training with United. He should be expected to be eased in, nothing wrong with what he said
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Where is source for this?
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Source for what exactly? the reaction to his comments (all over the caf and the internet) or what he said? This is also all over the caf and the internet.
 
Cloud7 said:
I think the only people heaping this kind of expectation on Ugarte are the people who somehow think ETH is going to turn things around and is just missing the right players for his master plan to come to fruition.

I am quite excited about the addition of Ugarte to the team, as I think he is a profile of player that we desperately need, but I am not expecting to see much impressive stuff out of him while we are still attempting to play clownball.
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Could not agree more. If you think one player can change this set up, I couldn't disagree more. There is no player in the history of the game imo who can make this type of midfield play work.
 
As long as something doesn't drastically change at Utd (what exactly I don't know, seems like hardly anybody does),
and we keep being this dysfunctional club,

Players like Ugarte a/o Yoro for example need to reminds themsleves that they are indeed going to make a lot of money,
and play in what is the most challenging league in the world,

But at Utd they have a greater realistic chance of damaging their reputatinion/stalling their development than achieve great things.

The chances of Ugarte being some sortt of saviour are ridiculously low. Why would anyone expect him to be one?
 
ScholesyTheWise said:
As long as something doesn't drastically change at Utd (what exactly I don't know, seems like hardly anybody does),
and we keep being this dysfunctional club,

Players like Ugarte a/o Yoro for example need to reminds themsleves that they are indeed going to make a lot of money,
and play in what is the most challenging league in the world,

But at Utd they have a greater realistic chance of damaging their reputatinion/stalling their development than achieve great things.

The chances of Ugarte being some sortt of saviour are ridiculously low. Why would anyone expect him to be one?
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He doesn’t need to be one though
 
Cassidy said:
Source for what exactly? the reaction to his comments (all over the caf and the internet) or what he said? This is also all over the caf and the internet.
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As in who said he’s not allowed?

Because from what I’ve seen he said a fact (Ugarte didn’t have pre season and hasn’t played, until the international apps recently) and is available for selection. There are a lot of posters who want to moan about everything, many not even bothering to read the Harry Potter quote for context, but I can’t see how he’s under any extra pressure to play or not play Ugarte. I suspect he wants to because Case is so out of form but he’ll be told by our medical department if Ugarte is ready and how many minutes they recommend. People love to stir the United pot but this seems a mountain out of a molehill to me.

(Unless there’s a quote I have missed, hence why I asked for source).
 
tomaldinho1 said:
As in who said he’s not allowed?

Because from what I’ve seen he said a fact (Ugarte didn’t have pre season and hasn’t played, until the international apps recently) and is available for selection. There are a lot of posters who want to moan about everything, many not even bothering to read the Harry Potter quote for context, but I can’t see how he’s under any extra pressure to play or not play Ugarte. I suspect he wants to because Case is so out of form but he’ll be told by our medical department if Ugarte is ready and how many minutes they recommend. People love to stir the United pot but this seems a mountain out of a molehill to me.

(Unless there’s a quote I have missed, hence why I asked for source).
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The very fact he had to make the Harry Potter comment should tell you something, he was asked a direct question by the press to apply pressure to a decision on whether he plays instead of Casemiro
The fan reaction to it is what I was referring to, the reaction was overall negative thus the "hes not allowed comment". Of course you could argue stupid fans apply no pressure at all, but in reality they do, especially when some of them are ex players in the media
 
Cassidy said:
The very fact he had to make the Harry Potter comment should tell you something, he was asked a direct question by the press to apply pressure to a decision on whether he plays instead of Casemiro
The fan reaction to it is what I was referring to, the reaction was overall negative thus the "hes not allowed comment". Of course you could argue stupid fans apply no pressure at all, but in reality they do, especially when some of them are ex players in the media
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If there’s anything you should have learned from watching ETH since he joined is he will start whoever he wants and stick to his plan. If any manager is getting influenced by the media on their team, I doubt they’d have ever made it into their jobs to be honest.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
If there’s anything you should have learned from watching ETH since he joined is he will start whoever he wants and stick to his plan. If any manager is getting influenced by the media on their team, I doubt they’d have ever made it into their jobs to be honest.
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Who said he was influenced? I said he is under pressure, it makes his decisions be scrutinised more if we lose and it puts his job under more pressure
Not to mention it adds a lot of pressure to the player, unnecessarily
 
Banana Republic said:
The team as a whole being too soft, isn’t going to be solved by just one physically aggressive player being drafted into the middle of the park.
We can’t continue putting out 4 forward players who are all incapable or too weak to perform midfield and other defensive duties.
At least two of them have to be able to do the physical stuff effectively and be capable of winning back possession when required.
Ugarte should be seen as another much needed, useful cog in the team rebuild and not expected to solve all our midfield problems on his own.


.
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Did I say otherwise? Not sure why you responded with this to me simply saying his tenacity will add to the team, nothing about whether he'll be a "solution" to our overall team problems. Adding one decent player who isn't soft is better than adding a player who's soft, no more, no less. You could have simply typed your last sentence, and we'd be in complete agreement.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
Needing to train with a shit team for almost a month is pretty overrated. This isn’t some 18 year old that hasn’t played senior football.
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No one said he had to train for a month. Short memories on when Casemiro was eased in, quite obviously it has more to do with understanding the game plan than fitness too
 
Cassidy said:
No one said he had to train for a month. Short memories on when Casemiro was eased in, quite obviously it has more to do with understanding the game plan than fitness too
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I mean Ten Hag himself said he wouldn’t be ready for weeks to potentially a month so that’s not really true. The entire argument is hypothetical anyways I don’t think he’ll be held out that long.
 
Valencia Shin Crosses said:
I mean Ten Hag himself said he wouldn’t be ready for weeks to potentially a month so that’s not really true. The entire argument is hypothetical anyways I don’t think he’ll be held out that long.
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He said he didn't know and it could be weeks, maybe months. Hes answering the question by saying he didn't know, considering he had not even trained much it was reasonable response taken out of context by hysterical fans
 
Cassidy said:
Who said he was influenced? I said he is under pressure, it makes his decisions be scrutinised more if we lose and it puts his job under more pressure
Not to mention it adds a lot of pressure to the player, unnecessarily
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You said he was not allowed to say that, by whom? Some redcaf posters who have gone feral in the international break?
 
Cassidy said:
Yes with little training with United. He should be expected to be eased in, nothing wrong with what he said
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If we had a midfield that could adequately complete 90 minute matches, sure. As is, we don't, so he'll be playing the next match if not tomorrow. We're about to play 7 matches over the course of three weeks. Casemiro and Mainoo cannot last beyond 60 minutes, and the style of play does not help them either. Ugarte will likely have featured at least 5 times in three weeks time.
 
tomaldinho1 said:
You said he was not allowed to say that, by whom? Some redcaf posters who have gone feral in the international break?
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And pundits and ex players etc online like I said
 
Bastian said:
If we had a midfield that could adequately complete 90 minute matches, sure. As is, we don't, so he'll be playing the next match if not tomorrow. We're about to play 7 matches over the course of three weeks. Casemiro and Mainoo cannot last beyond 60 minutes, and the style of play does not help them either. Ugarte will likely have featured at least 5 times in three weeks time.
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He'll play if hes ready sure, his comments were quite obviously to calm down the expectations. People were also doing the same with De Ligt and Zirkzee even though they did not play in pre season and also did not play much during the Euros
We just came off a season with riddled with injuries, common sense must be applied
 
Cassidy said:
He'll play if hes ready sure, his comments were quite obviously to calm down the expectations
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Yes, but they had the opposite effect. Which is getting quite normal. I've said it elsewhere, I'm still on the fence with him, but he doesn't navigate this media part of the job well. He says "we're Man United and we have to win every game" while at the same time he acknowledges that Rangnick was right. He'd have been better served (hindsight) to have endorsed Rangnick's take in part, or at least sat down with him when he joined.

With Ugarte he could have just said it'll take him time to get up to speed with the minimal amount of training with the group, and that would have been fine. But he went a bit dramatic, which he likely did not intend.
 
Bastian said:
Yes, but they had the opposite effect. Which is getting quite normal. I've said it elsewhere, I'm still on the fence with him, but he doesn't navigate this media part of the job well. He says "we're Man United and we have to win every game" while at the same time he acknowledges that Rangnick was right. He'd have been better served (hindsight) to have endorsed Rangnick's take in part, or at least sat down with him when he joined.

With Ugarte he could have just said it'll take him time to get up to speed with the minimal amount of training with the group, and that would have been fine. But he went a bit dramatic, which he likely did not intend.
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Yes because of the hysteria around the club, that's on fans as much as it is him. Either way it should not change when Ugarte plays.
 
Bastian said:
He'd have been better served (hindsight) to have endorsed Rangnick's take in part, or at least sat down with him when he joined.
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I think football managers in general are a stubborn, arrogant breed -- so I don't think this is unique to Ten Hag. That's why so much is made of "modern" managers who treat recommendations from various experts (data, set pieces etc.) seriously.
 
Cassidy said:
Yes because of the hysteria around the club, that's on fans as much as it is him. Either way it should not change when Ugarte plays.
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I think it's mostly on the blood thirsty media who've smelled blood for a while now and keep prodding him. And he is too naive or not self-assured enough to control it better.
 
Bastian said:
I think it's mostly on the blood thirsty media who've smelled blood for a while now and keep prodding him. And he is too naive or not self-assured enough to control it better.
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Thats a cop out to be perfectly honest. He didn't say anything wrong. The fan reaction to his comment was stupid. As usual taken out of context but fans as well as the media smell blood can’t always blame the media. A lot of fans want him gone and are looking for excuses to lose their wig
 
Cassidy said:
And pundits and ex players etc online like I said
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Very strange way to word it, that he’s not ‘allowed’. Basically any article about any manager that’s slightly critical falls into this category, I doubt any of them give a feck.
 
Any expectation is Ugarte's fault for prancing around looking like the footballing imitation of Dmitry Bivol
 
tomaldinho1 said:
Very strange way to word it, that he’s not ‘allowed’. Basically any article about any manager that’s slightly critical falls into this category, I doubt any of them give a feck.
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I didn't say he gave a feck, maybe its a strange way to word it sure.
However the reaction to what he said, is why I used the term because that what it gave off.
I think we can both agree the reaction from media, fans and ex players was stupid and on top of that unhelpful
The general negativity that our fans have started to by into from the media is general unhelpful in my opinion
 
The pressure and expectation is part of being a player at a supposedly top club and reflected in the higher wage available.

That's what United have got massively wrong over the last decade.

City have probably got rid of a first eleven that would beat this current United side comfortably.
 
Cassidy said:
I didn't say he gave a feck, maybe its a strange way to word it sure.
However the reaction to what he said, is why I used the term because that what it gave off.
I think we can both agree the reaction from media, fans and ex players was stupid and on top of that unhelpful
The general negativity that our fans have started to by into from the media is general unhelpful in my opinion
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The last point I wholeheartedly agree. Fans need to wise up though, most people seem to react to headlines now rather than articles. The worst is when people believe half these journos who use the classic:

‘A source who wished not to be named’

And then you get posters taking it as gospel.
 
I only want him to be a combination of Zidane and Pirlo, so no real pressure coming from me. Although if he doesn’t show me he’s one of the greatest midfielders of all time within his opening 25 minutes, he can feck right off.
 
The weight of expectation absolutely should be there. It’s not all to do with him. We have a new defence compared to last season. Shaw, Martinez, De Ligt and Yoro are all additions compared with last season.

We have to expect big improvements from our youngsters, Gernacho, Hojilund and we have to expect Rashford to be better.

The weight if expectation has to be there and the whole team top to bottom
Should be better. That’s before we see the best of Ugarte and Zirkzee.
 
I agree that we're probably building this lad up to be better than he really is, out of desperation or wishful thinking or whatever.

But I tell myself, he couldn't be worse than what Casemiro has been for the past 12 months, f**k me! Any half decent player in there would be an improvement, surely?!
 
I wouldn't heap too much pressure on him.

But I expect after watching Casemiro plod about for the last year, he'll look like a combination of Keane, Scholes, Carrick and Robson.

I'll give him 1 game to prove it.
 
Cassidy said:
Thats a cop out to be perfectly honest. He didn't say anything wrong. The fan reaction to his comment was stupid. As usual taken out of context but fans as well as the media smell blood can’t always blame the media. A lot of fans want him gone and are looking for excuses to lose their wig
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Yeah, that's not the way I see it. Sure, there's loads of fans waiting to pounce, same as the press. But as someone who has likely defended him more on here than most I don't think he helps himself with how he navigates this part of the job. I thought he absolutely did the right thing last season banning Luckhurst (amazed he's allowed in, amazed he's not fired by MEN, given his relentless undermining of anything United) but mainly I think he lacks the nous for it, which of course is a rare thing to possess.
 
Bastian said:
Yeah, that's not the way I see it. Sure, there's loads of fans waiting to pounce, same as the press. But as someone who has likely defended him more on here than most I don't think he helps himself with how he navigates this part of the job. I thought he absolutely did the right thing last season banning Luckhurst (amazed he's allowed in, amazed he's not fired by MEN, given his relentless undermining of anything United) but mainly I think he lacks the nous for it, which of course is a rare thing to possess.
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Personally managers at other clubs say a lot worse but their fans don’t follow the media frenzy. Sancho saga being the perfect example
 
It's the same old story of expecting miracles from new signings in a desperate attempt to paper over the gaping cracks created by an incompetent manager. One day we'll actually get around to fixing the root issue with the team.
 
Count me in on the "curious to see him play" rather than the great expectations side of the story.

That said. I always hope for the best with new seasons and very much someone who assumes a new player addition is a positive until proven negative. In the case of Ugarte I guess there's a certain desperation from fans rather than an expectation about him.

We have a job that needs doing in the team and there's no avoiding the fact that he gives us hope. That comes with the United player territory though, not just the Ugarte territory. Some players can handle that, but a lot can't, some can learn to handle it and that makes the manager's role in "player protection" even more critical.
 
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