The Overlap | United a Mess, Faith Lost in Arsenal & Title Race Over? | Stick to Football 72
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He’s not been for sale and is happy at the club, plenty would be interested. Clubs are interested in players who take a season off to find themselves like Sancho , I’m sure they’d be interested in a more productive , consistent player like Bruno.
How can you not fault him at least for a bit when he's Man Utd's captain and we're 15th on the table? In the last year and a half he has been very inconsistent and he had as much as poor performances as he had the good ones. In 2021/22 Ronaldo and De Gea were practically carrying UTD and UTD finished 6th and people still wanted De Gea and Ronaldo gone.
People said that Ronaldo was the "problem" even though he bailed us out in so many matches. I was fine with that because he didn't fit the system and no player is above the club, so we got rid of him. But what has Bruno done so much to get this kind of praise and protection?
I like Bruno but he shouldn't be a captain. If we want to rebuild the club, we need a better leader than him and we should sell him if the right price comes in.
Because he is one man and he pretty much always leaves everything on the pitch. You can't fault players for having bad patches. You can fault them for not giving their all.
Ronaldo wasn't carrying United, he was clearly causing issues with our all around play and he selfishness regardless of situation. His behaviour was also horrendously unprofessional at the time and he was on a silly wage. DDG was again on a silly wage and couldn't play out from the back like every top keeper does these days.
Captains don't do as much as you seem to think they do. Bruno isn't even a small part of the reason we have been so shit for years. I am not against selling any of our players if the right offer comes in and I don't care if he is captain or not. He is not even on the first page of our problems at the moment.
There is no doubt that your Keane would have them higher than 14th. Hated him. But he was a captain in every sense of the word. He would have dragged them up and put out fires.
And who is that in this team?
If someone answers Maguire, I will genuinely get annoyed.
Magwire.
"Because he is one man and he pretty much always leaves everything on the pitch".
It's not enough, he's a captain for Man Utd for crying out loud. Where are his leadership skills or authority on the pitch? No one in the dressing room is listening to Bruno Fernandes. When Ronaldo and Rooney were young they were literally listening and learning from the players like Keane, Scholes and Giggs. There was this famous story where young Ronaldo wouldn't pass to Van Nistelrooy in the training and Ruud shouted and humiliated young Cristiano. Ronaldo went back to the dressing room and cried like a little baby. That got to the head of Ronaldo and for the rest of his United career he would stop being a dribbling merchant and he started to pass the ball to Ruud and Saha. Do you think that young players like Garnacho and Hojlund are really listening to Bruno or are they a bit afraid of him. Of course, not.
"Ronaldo wasn't carrying United, he was clearly causing issues with our all around play and he selfishness regardless of situation". He did save us so many times, and remember he was 36. We were trailing behind Norwich (the worst team in the league) and he scored a hattrick to save us from losing to Norwich at home. He also scored a hattrick against Spurs as well. In the Champions league group stages, we literally went through because of him. The late clutch winning goals against Villareal and Atalanta home, and that ridiculous volley out of nowhere to secure a draw in Italy and the first place in the group. He had the better goals per game stats than the likes of prime Kane and Salah in that season. And what's worse he didn't get any service and we still had the likes of Bruno and Pogba in midfield.
"His behaviour was also horrendously unprofessional at the time". He was a serial winner and he came to United to win trophies. Remember, we brought Varane, Sancho and him to be the Premier League title contenders. When he left United for the first time to Real, Utd was the best team in Europe and much better side than Real Madrid btw. Whatever you think of his antics, it's undeniable that he was one of the few players who had this desire to win major trophies.
"Captains don't do as much as you seem to think they do. Bruno isn't even a small part of the reason we have been so shit for years". Yes, they are. United would be a much worse side, if it weren't for Keane and his brilliant leadership skills. Keane instilled fear and authority to Man Utd locker room and Bruno possesses none of these qualities. Keane will be forever remember for this moment and that's why he was a brilliant captain. We were trailing behind 2-0 in the semis of 1999 UCL against the star studded Juventus, and Man Utd needed 3 goals to advance to the finals. His midfield mastery for the next 60 minutes helped us to make a comeback and win 3-2. He gave a boost to a side that looked beaten and demoralized and he took the match to his hands even though he wasn't the best player of UTD at that time. That's what real captains do. They take responsibility for the bad results and try to set up the standards. Anytime UTD lost during the Fergie years, any Man Utd captain would be furious and shouting at the players. Now, when we draw 2:2 against Everton, we celebrate like we won EPL title.
If you want to look at a real captain and a captain that has a huge influence on the team, it's Virgil Van Dijk in Liverpool. He's a natural born leader and Liverpool is brilliant and stable because of him. The most important thing for a captain is to do a couple of things: 1) have great leadership skills 2) be an authority on the pitch 3) instill big standards for the club and the dressing room 4) be respected and feared by the opposition teams. Great captains of the big clubs in the past included the players like: Puyol at Barcelona, Terry in Chelsea, Ramos in Madrid and Tony Adams for Arsenal. We went from having Cantona, Keane, Neville and Vidic as captains to Young, Maguire and Fernandes. Those names alone tell you how far have we fallen as a team...
That's the biggest problem of modern Man Utd. We don't really have any leaders in the dressing room and that's been a problem for years now. Our last three captains were Young, Maguire and Fernandes. The last great Man Utd was Nemanja Vidic and it's not a coincidence that was our last successful period. Captains of the clubs often reflect the state of the clubs, and nothing screams as "failure" more when your captains are the likes of Young and Maguire. If I had to choose, I would pick Licha Martinez to be the captain of this squad.
Some say that Ugarte is a captain material as well. The best modern captain in the EPL is Virgil Van Dijk and we need that kind of a natural born leader in the UTD squad. Nothing against Bruno as a player, but I don't believe that he has those kind of natural leadership skills that captains are supposed to have. Amorim as a new coach should see and decide who is going to be a captain next season. Maybe we will buy a center back or a midfielder who can be a leader in the dressing room and on the pitch and he'll eventually become a new captain for Man Utd.
I love Keane but that was a ludicrous rant from him. Did anyone else catch the pure rage in his eyes during the rant as well? I have no doubt that it was a personal attack just from looking at that. He absolutely detests Bruno and I don’t understand why.
Happy to see that the majority of us have taken Bruno’s side though. Keane being a United legend gives him absolutely no right to slander our best player and the one man in our team who genuinely cares about our current plight.
Happy to see that the majority of us have taken Bruno’s side though. Keane being a United legend gives him absolutely no right to slander our best player and the one man in our team who genuinely cares about our current plight.
Keane is obviously the best United captain and leader during my time supporting United but it doesn't mean we should accept everything he says or do without question. Also can't see him going back to management with a big club, would be having go at players on weekly basis haha.
Plus I'm already fed up seeing our ex-players on screen now always talking about the glory days
Plus I'm already fed up seeing our ex-players on screen now always talking about the glory days
Agree about Ronaldo and his ill behaviour
Agree about captains not doing as much and that Bruno is down the list of problems when we have Onana, Dalot, Casemiro, Eriksen, Hojlund stinking up the place
Bruno however, as the elite player in the squad, on elite player wages isn’t doing enough. Yes he leaves everything on the pitch. But so could you. Running around and chasing after players doesn’t make you a good player. Although i also concede it would be nice if others shared his tenacity.
It’s his G/A (from open play) and in particular his ball retention that really concern me and as captain I believe he should have the self awareness that perhaps he should look after the ball a bit more rather than some of the silly things we see whilst in difficult situations. His in game management is terrible when we’re chasing games when he’s trying Rabona crosses. Outside of boot crosses. Shooting in anger. Gifting possession in dangerous areas…and then shows the audacity to swing his arms at others for their short comings.
He is of course a talented player. I don’t think he’s at the levels of Utd players in years gone by but he clearly has high ability. And it’s more frustrating because I believe if he wasn’t in such a rush to progress the ball and instead showed a bit more composure, he’d raise his game back to the levels we saw in that first 18 months. He’s showing no signs of doing that though
I think Fernandes is the worst ‘best player’ United have had since the 80s. He’s a very good player, capable of quality. But he’s not good enough to be the fulcrum of the side nor is his temperament quite strong enough for the responsibilities he is burdened with. Bit like Coutinho. Liverpool’s issue in that period was he was the ‘go to’ guy to dig Liverpool out. The side didn’t take the next step until Liverpool had proper leaders all over the pitch. Feenades should adorn a good team rather than be the basis of creativity, tenacity and influence.
100%.
Good point. But the Liverpool example also shows how difficult it is to prevent such situations. Liverpool has been in a comparable situation with Steven Gerrard not too long ago. Yet the Coutinho situation developed the way it did. Thats the thing - it obviously is enticing to try to make the most use of a very good player. And probably it makes sense more often than not. But there is a danger of clinging to it longer than it is good for the team. The move from Mbappe to Real also ended in PSG playing differently and according to understat, they are on around 70 xG today in the league while they ended up with 72 xG for the whole of last season. Don't get me wrong, this is not me saying, get rid of Bruno to unlock the team, I don't think, this would happen to United. This is only me saying that some fans crossed the line to being a little too dogmatic about intertwining Bruno with the fate of Manchester United. I can see the reasoning behind it and I'd definitely keep it in my in my decisions but it feels like some people are boxing themselves in, seeing things only in black and white.
Gerrard was capable of carrying the burden though. He elevated Liverpool considerably. But obviously much better overall.
Yep, he's a nutcase.
Great player no doubt but when you hear stories of his management career, he just comes across as a massive tit.
Again it’s easy to say that when he played in the team that he played in with the manager he had as well, he did get relegated with Nottingham Forrest so this idea that he’d inevitably drag a team up a table is a tad far fetched, he was incredible, probably my favourite ever United player, but he didn’t achieve success on his own and if he was in this current United team with the shit show it’s become he might find it difficult too.
The only one I've actually enjoyed watching from start to finish was when it was Evra, Rooney, Neville and Wright. It was a fascinating insight into some of the untold stories from the Fergie years. Talking about how if it wasn't for Carlos Queiroz then we wouldn't have knocked out Barca in 08.
I've tried several other episodes but lasted less than 15 minutes before realising I'm uninterested.
I agree with what you said except the part about Ronaldo. I think the main point is we shouldn't of bought Ronaldo. It was a huge mistake. He had no legs left. And we where playing a fast transition, low block. Wrong player for the tactics. We had to change for Ronaldo. So of course he will score some goals. But overall it was a disaster. After telling Cavani he would be the main man and convinced him to stay we sign Ronaldo and completely upset the dynamics of the squad. Worst signing ever. Also very unprofessional. I've never seen anyone act like he did. He could of been a legend at United. But he burned the bridge. Not once, but twice. Amazing!