The Overlap | United a Mess, Faith Lost in Arsenal & Title Race Over? | Stick to Football 72

Gone too far with that nonsense, although I agree somewhat with him. Bruno is a very good player who has even been great at times with us, but is far from perfect captain with his moaning, exaggerating of contacts along with his petulance behavior. His running around often leaves gaps behind and sometimes it looks like he is running for the sake of it, so I get what he is saying with that one as well.

In a room full of great players Bruno would be far down the line for captaincy for me... In a room with current United players, I mean, it's pretty much case closed and moot point as he is pretty much only qualified to do so. Maguire played some awful stuff with armband, maybe Ugarte or DeLigt could make a case one day, but I reckon we still didn't buy our future captain. So, in that sense, it's one of those nonsensical Keano rants. And I absolutely love the man.
Bruno will deserve his plaudits once he hangs his boots, unlike many others he played with.
 
I don't watch this often, but I watched the United bit of the last episode. I personally love what Keane said about Bruno. Probably the most overrated player I've ever seen here.

I said before he actually joined that I wasn't a fan because I'd actually watched him for Sporting, but we were playing Lingard and Pereira every week as our 10 so I was all for any change at that point. Aside from his performance in the final last year, I've hated watching him and his Hollywood ball.

I also completely disagree with those who think we as a club are somehow beneath him. He was playing in Portugal before us. He disappoints for his country. He's not done anything here to suggest he could move on to better things. We've been crap since he joined and no top club has ever thought about trying to pinch him off us because he wouldn't work in a top team.

I'm glad Keane calls out the "he's saving us" malarkey. He has more bad performances than good.
 
Marwood said:
Look I love Keane for what he did for us and his on pitch personality.

But he was far from perfect as a captain. We could fill pages with uncaptain like behaviour.

When Bruno has his manager getting him out of a police cell we'll know it's bad. When Bruno strops that his pre season villa isn't good enough and stays separately to the rest of the players we'll know it's bad.

So on and so on.
Click to expand...

I never said he was perfect, but he is the greatest captain in PL history. You're free to argue for someone else.

All these people saying we'd be relegated without Bruno are delusional. The guy has been part of our worst results and worst seasons yet they still cling on to his stats. Someone else would take the free kicks and corners and someone else would fill that attacking role. Lets just take this season, Bruno has had more bad games than good. So literally any player who had more good games than bad would be an upgrade on him this season. People have already forgotten the dude got three red cards this season (one rescinded ) and stunk the place up until ETH got fired. He has this incredible ability to ninjutsu United fans into forgetting the first half of the season and a couple good months in March or Feb or April where he stat pads against some shit teams makes a bunch of fans so thrilled. He won player of the year last season having been horrible for 4 months of the season. For all the snowflakes saying he doesn't deserve the abuse and he should go to another club, on that second part I fully agree. He should leave asap and the first part is again pure delusion. He gets the most love out of anyone in the team from our fans. No other player has a fan club dedicated to spitting out his stats and claiming he is so far above his teammates.
 
Roy really played up the panto villain this week, the unhinged rant about Bruno was entertaining if nothing else.
 
Last edited:
Some of the posts on here :lol: :lol: :lol:

You guys are trying too hard, Keano is not going to read your posts here :boring:
 
Xeque_279 said:
Some of the posts on here :lol: :lol: :lol:

You guys are trying too hard, Keano is not going to read your posts here :boring:
Click to expand...
If it didn't punish us just as much you'd almost invite us selling Bruno to show them what we'd be like without his ability.
Relying on 5 games a season Mount instead. Or a new signing, when we've made about 2 successful ones beyond 3 month purple patches in a decade.
 
Keane was a brilliant player and captain, one of United’s best ever but he was also very lucky that he played in probably the greatest United team of all time with the greatest manager of all time. If you put prime Keane into the current United team they still wouldn’t be anyway close to winning league titles. He must have forgotten as well that he was relegated with Nottingham Forest. Bruno walks into any Fergie team also.
 
Love Keano and he was spot on with his views on United and it's players.

And...he can say it however many times he wants that he doesn't support United but it's clear that it hurts him to see us in our current state.
 
Insanity said:
Love Keano and he was spot on with his views on United and it's players.

And...he can say it however many times he wants that he doesn't support United but it's clear that it hurts him to see us in our current state.
Click to expand...
Didn't know he doesn't support United. Why would he lie about that? Weird thing to lie about.
 
Keane in todays locker room would be one of the worst things to happen. He would criticize every single thing of his team and act like a grown baby, huffing and puffing, trying to get his way and not letting grudges go. He wouldnt be a pleasure to play with.
 
SuperiorXI said:
Didn't know he doesn't support United. Why would he lie about that? Weird thing to lie about.
Click to expand...
He said it in the podcast before this one that he doesn't support United. Even Gary was surprised that he said that.

I don't know if it is a "lie" but his passion still comes out when he talks about United and our current state.
 
Sandikan said:
If it didn't punish us just as much you'd almost invite us selling Bruno to show them what we'd be like without his ability.
Relying on 5 games a season Mount instead. Or a new signing, when we've made about 2 successful ones beyond 3 month purple patches in a decade.
Click to expand...
This mindset is absolutely baffling.

Since signing Bruno, we've gone from new low to new lows. We were better before he came here. Yet he's somehow this saviour that's stopping us from getting even worse when, since he's been the focal point of the team, we've seen the worst stuff in decades.

The pedestal he's put on here is crazy and completely undeserved.
 
Civil war in here, blimey. Bruno is obviously a talented player but he's not captain material and isn't the player you should be building a team around. Neither of those two things are entirely his fault as he was made captain and I doubt he controls transfers.
 
Yagami said:
This mindset is absolutely baffling.

Since signing Bruno, we've gone from new low to new lows. We were better before he came here. Yet he's somehow this saviour that's stopping us from getting even worse when, since he's been the focal point of the team, we've seen the worst stuff in decades.

The pedestal he's put on here is crazy and completely undeserved.
Click to expand...

What's really odd is that you connect the arrival of one player to the fortunes of the entire club.
 
Marwood said:
What's really odd is that you connect the arrival of one player to the fortunes of the entire club.
Click to expand...
I'm not. I'm saying that people who act as if we're lucky to have him or that we'd be even worse without him are overlooking the fact that since being made the focal point of the team, we've seen the worse stuff in decades. I never said that's entirely down to him but he's not this saviour he's painted as either.

The only player in recent years who singlehandedly carried this team was Rashford in ten Hag's debut season, and he was only class for like a third of it, but that was enough to win us a cup and secure top 4. As soon as his form dropped, what happened? We sunk like a lead balloon because no one else was stepping up. That includes Bruno. Apparently he's stopping us from being even lower than we are now but if he was as good as people claim, we wouldn't be as low as we are in the first place. He's in the same boat as everyone else.
 
Bruno is our best player, and by a long way. Without him this season I am not sure where even half of the pittance of goals we have scored would come from. Ian Wright was correct about all that.

Bruno isn't the guy to lead this team out of the hole it is in, he's a great player, and we need him, but we also need better leadership. Keane has that right too.

Both things can be true, and there is no need to put Bruno down or pretend he's some weight dragging the club down either. Being captain wasn't his choice, and realistically, we have no one else who could be captain, but we need a better one. That is all on the club.
 
Yagami said:
I'm not. I'm saying that people who act as if we're lucky to have him or that we'd be even worse without him are overlooking the fact that since being made the focal point of the team, we've seen the worse stuff in decades. I never said that's entirely down to him but he's not this saviour he's painted as either.

The only player in recent years who singlehandedly carried this team was Rashford in ten Hag's debut season, and he was only class for like a third of it, but that was enough to win us a cup and secure top 4. As soon as his form dropped, what happened? We sunk like a lead balloon because no one else was stepping up. That includes Bruno. Apparently he's stopping us from being even lower than we are now but if he was as good as people claim, we wouldn't be as low as we are in the first place. He's in the same boat as everyone else.
Click to expand...

you just literally said since Bruno arrived "we've gone from new low to new low." How is that not specifically connecting him to the problem?

Besides not actually being true there are whole host of other things that have happened in this period. You could swap Bruno out of that sentence for about 30 other people/things.

So many issues at the club that it should be impossible to pick just one out.
 
Marwood said:
you just literally said since Bruno arrived "we've gone from new low to new low." How is that not specifically connecting him to the problem?

Besides not actually being true there are whole host of other things that have happened in this period.

So many issues at the club that it should be impossible to pick just one out.
Click to expand...
That was in response to this mindset that Bruno is this player that's preventing things from being worse; as if things haven't got worse with him here.
 
Yagami said:
That was in response to this mindset that Bruno is this player that's preventing things from being worse; as if things haven't got worse with him here.
Click to expand...

But you get they could be even worse right?

Clearly nobody is saying things haven't gone wrong in the last five years.
 
I think you can both be a great player but a detriment to the team overall in terms of the balance and harmony of the squad and structure both on and off the pitch. I can understand the arguments for Bruno both ways.

It's telling to me though how much division there is within the fanbase and punditry world regarding him though.
 
Marwood said:
But you get they could be even worse right?
Click to expand...
That's fair, which is why I've not really criticised Bruno that much this season even when he's had a bad game like the Tottenham game just gone. I just don't think he's been that much better than everyone else to warrant this mindset that we're lucky to have him or that he's carrying us to a significant degree. Like everyone, he's had a lot of poor games, too.

That goes for pretty much the whole squad. I don't think we have any player that makes me think "we're lucky to have him". Even Amad who inbetween ten Hag leaving and his injury I thought was our best player didn't make me think that, and I really like him. No one single player is currently changing much.
 
Marwood said:
you just literally said since Bruno arrived "we've gone from new low to new low." How is that not specifically connecting him to the problem?

Besides not actually being true there are whole host of other things that have happened in this period. You could swap Bruno out of that sentence for about 30 other people/things.

So many issues at the club that it should be impossible to pick just one out.
Click to expand...
He loves Rashford. He thinks Rashford would produce the figures Bruno does. You know the bloke that runs at people and never looks for somebody else most of the time. Then stops running.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
He loves Rashford. He thinks Rashford would produce the figures Bruno does. You know the bloke that runs at people and never looks for somebody else most of the time. Then stops running.
Click to expand...
I don't love Rashford. I was in favour of dropping him for a loooooooong time, and am in favour of selling him. I was hoping he'd turn it around a while back, and I don't like the vitriol he receives, but that doesn't mean he's a favourite of mine.

A bit random from yourself...
 
Yagami said:
I don't love Rashford. I was in favour of dropping him for a loooooooong time, and am in favour of selling him. I was hoping he'd turn it around a while back, and I don't like the vitriol he receives, but that doesn't mean he's a favourite of mine.

A bit random from yourself...
Click to expand...
Stop bringing Rashford into the equation to beat Bruno round the head then. If you want to have a go at somebody then what about Shaw and Mount who we are paying a fortune to and contribute absolutely nothing, just adding to medical bills. Not somebody who is always available and cannot ever be accused of slacking.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
Stop bringing Rashford into the equation to beat Bruno round the head then. If you want to have a go at somebody then what about Shaw and Mount who we are paying a fortune to and contribute absolutely nothing, just adding to medical bills. Not somebody who is always available and cannot ever be accused of slacking.
Click to expand...
No, I won't stop, because people acting like ANYONE is carrying us now is something I disagree with, and I will use Rashford as an example of someone carrying us - because he did. And as soon as he stopped doing so we plummeted, and have been in free fall since.
 
Yagami said:
No, I won't stop, because people acting like ANYONE is carrying us now is something I disagree with, and I will use Rashford as an example of someone carrying us - because he did. And as soon as he stopped doing so we plummeted, and have been in free fall since.
Click to expand...
If he was that brilliant he would be trying to carry the team like Bruno is trying to now, not sulking and going off on the piss. Ronaldo was a genius, Rashford is nowhere near that but thinks he is. He wants to play for Barcelona, Lewandowski is still a better player than him. The kids they have will put him well in the shade. I don't know what happened with Rashford, he seemed a nice humble lad, who maybe has surrounded himself with bad influences that will drag him down if he isn't careful. Bruno is not perfect, but as others have said Keane was fortunate to have brilliant players round him, they never looked to him to score and create goals on a regular basis. He also had a manager at that time who would protect all players to the end of the earth as long as they produced.
 
Roy Keane was too harsh on Bruno but he's right that he needs to take more responsibility. Man Utd desperately needs more leaders and "no nonsense" type of players akin to Keane, but there's none.

In the past younger players like Ronaldo and Rooney had to look up to Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Neville etc. We had leaders and great role models to look up to but now players like Garnacho and Hojlund look up to Maguire and Bruno. What separates the big teams from all others are not just the world class players or the coaches, but also excellent leaders. I am looking at this Liverpool side and Van Dijk stands out as this natural born leader.

I just don't see Bruno as this "leader" in the way that Van Dijk is at Liverpool. Bruno is not a type player who will shout at his players for misplacing a pass or try to assert some sort of authority. If Rashford lived in Keane's era of Man Utd, he wouldn't survive that kind of pressure. Keane would probably break his legs at the training ground for his attitude and jogging.

The leaders also set the standards for the club. When we had these big names and leaders in our dressing room, you had to give 110% of your game on the pitch. Not winning a trophy in a season was considered a disaster because we used to have big standards.

Bruno needs to set the standards and be a role model to the younger players, so they can look up to him. He also needs to be more vocal on the pitch and establish some kind of authority like a real captain. He needs to whine and moan less, and take more responsibility. Harry Maguire had to endure so much negativity and abuse but that's what happens when you are a captain for Man Utd.
 
DomesticTadpole said:
If he was that brilliant he would be trying to carry the team like Bruno is trying to now, not sulking and going off on the piss. Ronaldo was a genius, Rashford is nowhere near that but thinks he is. He wants to play for Barcelona, Lewandowski is still a better player than him. The kids they have will put him well in the shade. I don't know what happened with Rashford, he seemed a nice humble lad, who maybe has surrounded himself with bad influences that will drag him down if he isn't careful. Bruno is not perfect, but as others have said Keane was fortunate to have brilliant players round him, they never looked to him to score and create goals on a regular basis. He also had a manager at that time who would protect all players to the end of the earth as long as they produced.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree with any of that...

I'm not defending Rashford's attitude or form post 22/23 if that's the impression I gave you. I'm also not saying our woes are entirely down to Bruno (or any single player for that matter) either. All I disagreed with was that Bruno was carrying us this season, and used Rashford's previous form as an example of someone doing so in the past. Fair enough if you disagree.

I actually don't want to harp too much on Bruno because even though I don't agree with the "he's carrying us" sentiment, his last couple of games have been promising, so I'll leave it here and hope he continues his current form.
 
Yagami said:
I don't disagree with any of that...

I'm not defending Rashford's attitude or form post 22/23 if that's the impression I gave you. I'm also not saying our woes are entirely down to Bruno (or any single player for that matter) either. All I disagreed with was that Bruno was carrying us this season, and used Rashford's previous form as an example of someone doing so in the past. Fair enough if you disagree.

I actually don't want to harp too much on Bruno because even though I don't agree with the "he's carrying us" sentiment, his last couple of games have been promising, so I'll leave it here and hope he continues his current form.
Click to expand...
OK. No problem. :)
 
Yagami said:
This mindset is absolutely baffling.

Since signing Bruno, we've gone from new low to new lows. We were better before he came here. Yet he's somehow this saviour that's stopping us from getting even worse when, since he's been the focal point of the team, we've seen the worst stuff in decades.

The pedestal he's put on here is crazy and completely undeserved.
Click to expand...
Which has nothing to do with Bruno and all to do with how terribly our club is ran. If anything, Bruno has ensured those lows were just a little higher than they could have been (along with some other players who have also been good).
 
I thought Roy Keane was going to have a heart attack - you can see the mans passion, I bet he feels like his legacy is being tarnished with the current team being so poor.

He's 100% right though. All the players have plenty of blame, and Bruno is amongst them.
 
I thought Gary would have been in favour of taking the lunches away.

A bottle of Huel in the morning should see them through the day.
 
KingEric04 said:
Roy Keane was too harsh on Bruno but he's right that he needs to take more responsibility. Man Utd desperately needs more leaders and "no nonsense" type of players akin to Keane, but there's none.

In the past younger players like Ronaldo and Rooney had to look up to Keane, Scholes, Giggs, Neville etc. We had leaders and great role models to look up to but now players like Garnacho and Hojlund look up to Maguire and Bruno. What separates the big teams from all others are not just the world class players or the coaches, but also excellent leaders. I am looking at this Liverpool side and Van Dijk stands out as this natural born leader.

I just don't see Bruno as this "leader" in the way that Van Dijk is at Liverpool. Bruno is not a type player who will shout at his players for misplacing a pass or try to assert some sort of authority. If Rashford lived in Keane's era of Man Utd, he wouldn't survive that kind of pressure. Keane would probably break his legs at the training ground for his attitude and jogging.

The leaders also set the standards for the club. When we had these big names and leaders in our dressing room, you had to give 110% of your game on the pitch. Not winning a trophy in a season was considered a disaster because we used to have big standards.

Bruno needs to set the standards and be a role model to the younger players, so they can look up to him. He also needs to be more vocal on the pitch and establish some kind of authority like a real captain. He needs to whine and moan less, and take more responsibility. Harry Maguire had to endure so much negativity and abuse but that's what happens when you are a captain for Man Utd.
Click to expand...
I quite agree with this.

Back when I used to play football regularly, there were certain players where before a ball was even kicked you knew there's zero chance the opponent will have an easy day. The teams might be unbalanced but you had that player in the middle of the pitch that will drag your ass through the game. Sure, it made it less fun sometimes but in professional football, that kind of stuff is invaluable.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
Which has nothing to do with Bruno and all to do with how terribly our club is ran. If anything, Bruno has ensured those lows were just a little higher than they could have been (along with some other players who have also been good).
Click to expand...
I wasn't saying our decline was because of Bruno. Or any player. It's all on the people in charge of the club. I went into this above and, as I said to @DomesticTadpole , I don't wanna harp on about it because Bruno has had a promising past two games that will hopefully continue so it feels wrong to complain about him at the moment. I just kinda got sucked into the Keane stuff.
 
Bruno is borderline the only player at United in the past 10+ years that I cannot fault the effort of 99% of the time. Considering the shit he has around him as well. I don't think Keane quite understand how hard it is to do what Bruno does when the players around you barely care to turn up, let alone work for the team. Keane had internal and external motivation to perform. Bruno only has his internal motivation to keep him warm at night.

Yes he whinges too much and yes he has a whingy face which does him no favours but he can't change that. Most captains complain to the ref all the time as well.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.