The need for a second playmaker

ClosetDevil said:
I don't really think that's a reasonable excuse anymore. We've spent in excess of 300 million quid over the last few transfer windows. If other teams are able to identify, recruit, and develop prospects better than us, them it's obvious where the problem lies. It's clear that is simply throwing money at other clubs for their players isn't necessarily the solution.

The definition of insanity is trying the same thing multiple times and expecting to achieve a different outcome.
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TBF when Jose took over we're 5th. The 300 Million he spents gets him 4 player, and we're now 2nd.

I'd say he's on par with his spending, bare in mind we're also competing against 6 teams, instead of the pre-Roman era where SAF only has to compete with Arsenal
 
A lot of people may prefer an creative #10/SS like an Ozil but personally I would prefer a third midfielder to help Pogba in a 4-3-3. A CM that can pass the ball and set up attacks and would also help Matic out allowing Pogba to get forward at will. Now for an actual name then I wouldn't have a great idea as I haven't seen a lot of European football this year. Would Savic or Jorginho be able to fill this role?
 
Forsberg as part of a midfield 3, the closest thing to Modric I have seen:

 
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I agree IF United can only add one player I’d prefer it be a creative minded one.
 
Creativity has been a major problem for the past 5 or 6 seasons. Particularly from central areas. We simply don't play through different areas of the pitch including the centre and overlapping in and around the box enough. One main reason for that is that we had rooney and rvp who's game wasn't to run in behind players. But now that we have Rashford, martial and lukaku it's still a problem even though they possess pace. We only seem to play through teams when they are all open at the back chasing a goal.
 
If it were at all possible to tempt Pjanic it would probably be the best possible playmaker we could sign.
 
Nick. said:
If it were at all possible to tempt Pjanic it would probably be the best possible playmaker we could sign.
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Mahrez or ozil would be great signings in January, both available for the champions league, have Proven it in PL.
 
I have a feeling Mourinho intends to stick with 4231 next season. In which case I think we need a wide playmaker for the right in addition to the fullback(s) and central midfielder.

He said the plan was to buy two central midfielders in the summer but I think that's changed now because of Scott McTominay who has earned Mourinho's trust. Maybe just one central midfielder instead.
 
Nick. said:
I have a feeling Mourinho intends to stick with 4231 next season. In which case I think we need a wide playmaker for the right in addition to the fullback(s) and central midfielder.

He said the plan was to buy two central midfielders in the summer but I think that's changed now because of Scott McTominay who has earned Mourinho's trust. Maybe just one central midfielder instead.
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If you're right I guess that puts Pogba on the left of the 3 behind the striker as we have surely established by now that he can't play in the double pivot. As for the wide playmaker off the right, all the money should be thrown at Eriksen.
 
I think McTominay certainly has indicated he can possibly be relied upon (for the time being) as a backup for the defensive midfield role. Allowing us to direct our money on a proper backup, rotational option or partner for Pogba
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
I Insist, We need a second number 8. A player to help us recreate what Real get when employing Kroos and Modric or Kovavic/Ceballos and Isco in front of Casemiro
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Wouldn't mind Kovacic here, has good energy, quick feet and is quite comfortable with the ball, even under pressure.
Still not hit his prime yet either.
 
gulli_G said:
Forsberg as part of a midfield 3, the closest thing to Modric I have seen:

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Thought he played further advanced than a Modric. Interesting comparison. To be fair I haven't watched him play for a number of months so I may have just got it in my head that he's a Kagawa esque (in position sense) type player.

Gordon S said:
Wouldn't mind Kovacic here, has good energy, quick feet and is quite comfortable with the ball, even under pressure.
Still not hit his prime yet either.
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And may possibly getting impatient with the lack of starts he's getting at Madrid.
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
Thought he played further advanced than a Modric. Interesting comparison. To be fair I haven't watched him play for a number of months so I may have just got it in my head that he's a Kagawa esque (in position sense) type player.
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yeah he's a wide playmaker - a bit like Mata when used on the right. He isn't having one of the best seasons tho. Been injured for 2 months and missing about 10-12 games in total since December. Not yet back to the level of the last year either.

Would love to see him here but might need to prove himself a bit more since he has taken a step back, mainly due to the injury in December.
 
Hernandez - BFA said:
Thought he played further advanced than a Modric. Interesting comparison. To be fair I haven't watched him play for a number of months so I may have just got it in my head that he's a Kagawa esque (in position sense) type player.



And may possibly getting impatient with the lack of starts he's getting at Madrid.
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Kovacic is probably seen as a future star at Real, but as long as Modric, Kroos and Casemiro keeps performing at a high level he is going to have to wait. His patience must run out sometime i guess.
 
Devil may care said:
If you're right I guess that puts Pogba on the left of the 3 behind the striker as we have surely established by now that he can't play in the double pivot. As for the wide playmaker off the right, all the money should be thrown at Eriksen.
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Spurs aren't going to sell you Eriksen ... pursuing him would be a pure a waste of time.
 
Devil may care said:
If you're right I guess that puts Pogba on the left of the 3 behind the striker as we have surely established by now that he can't play in the double pivot. As for the wide playmaker off the right, all the money should be thrown at Eriksen.
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Pogba can play in a double-pivot, when we were beating teams 4 - 0 at the beginning of the season he was playing in a two. And he's played successfully with just Kante in the France team recently. The problem isn't the double-pivot itself as he's played poorly even in a three.
 
Rutan said:
Pogba can play in a double-pivot, when we were beating teams 4 - 0 at the beginning of the season he was playing in a two. And he's played successfully with just Kante in the France team recently. The problem isn't the double-pivot itself as he's played poorly even in a three.
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Those were a few games, what we saw after that was teams started to exploit the fact he left a huge gaping hole with his lack of positional awarenbess and began to run through us, then we saw Matic struggle with the lack of help, everyone thought he was so tired over Christmas, but then McTominay played alongside him in a proper double pivot and we saw that he's not shatrtered, he simply doesn't have the legs or engine to cover for someone with the indiscipline and lack of positional sense of Pogba, As for him playing it for France, I always think he looks a shell of himself for them when stuck in that 2 as he's reduced to just sitting deep and pinging a few balls around, and the fact Kante covers so much ground helps cover for the fact he's not suited to it defensively.
 
We need a playmaker big time. Pogba isn't the guy who can make a team tick. He's a creator. Ideally we'd get a CM who can playmake and run the game for us and possibly also a RW/AM who has some playmaking qualities if we're willing to stretch ourselves.
 
Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber said:
I Insist, We need a second number 8. A player to help us recreate what Real get when employing Kroos and Modric or Kovavic/Ceballos and Isco in front of Casemiro
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I've been saying this for so long, I even made a thread about it haha.. A no 8 in the mould of David Silva/Iniesta should be a top priority.
 
luke511 said:
I've been saying this for so long, I even made a thread about it haha.. A no 8 in the mould of David Silva/Iniesta should be a top priority.
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I imagine we'll be looking for someone a little more defensively assured than that to play with Pogba & Matic; I wouldn't say either Silva/Iniesta are what you'd call 'traditional' #8s.
 
Infra-red said:
I imagine we'll be looking for someone a little more defensively assured than that to play with Pogba & Matic; I wouldn't say either Silva/Iniesta are what you'd call 'traditional' #8s.
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A no 8 with more attributes of a 10 rather than a 6 is what we need at the moment. We can't hold possession in tight offensive areas well at all, and I honestly think having a player like this next to Pogba would relieve him of his defensive duties more than a 6 would. We do have Matic behind the pair of them after all.
 
Have only seen youtubeclips of Tanguy Ndombele, but he looks like a very promising cm prospect to me.
Has anyone watch him play? Can he be a creative 8?
 
I think Pogba and another CM that can drive the ball into space is enough. Especially if we address our RW.

If we could add 10 assists to the RW, we'd be in a much better position at this moment in time. All our attacks come from the left. A creative RW that can beat a man who be immense to our current set up. Ideally a 2010 Valencia. Big question is, who fits that description?

Malcom, Traore, Pulisic.. perhaps?
 
James Rodriguez would of been a good fit IMO.
 
luke511 said:
A no 8 with more attributes of a 10 rather than a 6 is what we need at the moment. We can't hold possession in tight offensive areas well at all, and I honestly think having a player like this next to Pogba would relieve him of his defensive duties more than a 6 would. We do have Matic behind the pair of them after all.
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so basically another pogba next to pogba?
To be fair I wouldnt mind us trying that with somebody like Milinkovic-Savic (or saul - but I think he is unobtainabe)
-----------------Matic----------------------------------------------------Mctominy-----------------
-----------Savic----------Pogba---------------------------------Herrera-----------Periera---------
----Sanchez----Lukaku-----Martial-------------------------Mata--------Rashford--------Lingard

Im sure there are some who think we will go out and buy neymar, griezman and dybala and much as I wish we would / could I suspect one or 2 players in midfield / attack is more realistic with probably a new left back as well
 
Cee90 said:
James Rodriguez would of been a good fit IMO.
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Agreed, he's a starter for Bayern now and can even play in a midfield three too but of course the Caf turned it's nose up at him lol...
 
What we need is a Deep Lying Playmaker. Someone who can help defensive and more importantly control the pace of the game. Able to transition quickly, retain possession and keep the game ticking and most importantly importantly... Pass long rather than hoof the ball.
 
Edgar Allan Pillow said:
What we need is a Deep Lying Playmaker. Someone who can help defensive and more importantly control the pace of the game. Able to transition quickly, retain possession and keep the game ticking and most importantly importantly... Pass long rather than hoof the ball.
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Couldn't Matic do this?
 
no

Need workers first, to steady the ship and then we can get a better view of whats short and who will have the heart to get stuck in! An extra playmaker would add to the problems.
 
We don't need another "win more" player like Pogba. They make the team better when you are in control but do nothing to help you regain control when you are losing nor do they put in the shift required to defend when out of possession. We need a midfield controller, someone who can stabilise our possession while also being good defensively. If you don't have the ball, then there's nothing to playmake with.
 
The reasons for city's ruthless instincts this season are their playmaking quality near the opposition final third and the control they provide with 2 points of contact in attacking third with a 5 pronged attack from all sides.

I think to catch them also united need a second attacking playmaker in the side who is an upgrade on Mata and Lingard both as they both are hot and cold players and a club with United's stature must also have a better playmaker than those 2 in the main starting 11. We need much more than just points and consistency to catch city, we need more creativity, control and arrogance on the ball to have even better attacking cohesive team.

Mourinho's teams had playmakers like Ozil and Schneider in his previous clubs who made their attacking play more ruthless and efficient which is not the case with current United team and also the style of the team suffers because of that as the transition is much slower to what fans want to see when Lukaku drops deeper to pick up the ball instead of stretching the line and running in behind and attacking the space behind.

Nabil fekir like playmaker would we a superb addition to our team who can also play multiple roles as a no 8, 10, and on the right wing.

Also as Jose loves a 4231 at times as well he can perfectly slot into those roles as well and make our system a 4231/433 attacking system.


---------------------Lukaku------------------
------Martial------------------------Sanchez--

----------Pogba------------------- fekir

-------------Jorginho/matic---------

This front 6 together would be immense with more creativity, better control, under the high press and better in transition. And this front 6 could easily transit to 4231 Jose system and be a hybrid 4231 /433 attacking system where Sanchez drifts centrally and fekir drifts to right wing as a left-footer cutting inside which we have been lacking in big games with Matas lack of pace, while pogba drops deeper like Mourinho is playing him right now alongside matic or jorginho.

Also, fekir would come in handy as a right winger in a defensive 433 with pogba and matic and jorginho/ any other DM could play as mid 3 adding extra quality and balance in final third that we lack.

Every top team in UCL as well have attacking playmakers to have good control and creativity in final third and United also need one if we have to improve with the ball. Bayern has it with James and Thiago, Madrid with Isco Modric and Kroos, Barcelona with Messi Coutinho Iniesta, city with Silva and kdb, Juventus with Dybala, and it's time united also have these playmakers rather than just DMS or b2b players.
 
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