The need for a second playmaker

poacher said:
He's clearly a good player but he isn't the best fit for United. He would be a better fit at Man City as they dominate most games.
Click to expand...
We do dominate most games don't we?
We can't afford a passenger on the team. Arsenal fans will tell you how frustrating it is to be playing with 10 men for large parts of the game.
Click to expand...
He's bizaarely underappreciated at Arsenal. They are more focused on what he cant do rather than just appreciate his creative genius.
He is brilliant for Germany because there are people in the team covering for his lack of defensive contribution but we can't afford a luxury player like Ozil. Matic would be burnt out in no time covering for Ozil.
Click to expand...
And who are those that cover him at Germany that he doesn't have at Arsenal? Why not just admit the German players are better than the Arsenal ones? A player plays much better with better players around him especially one who relies on his on-the-ball ability rather than workhorse(ry).
Remember Jose likes everyone in the team to contribute defensively and won't be happy if a player just stands around and doesn't defend.
Click to expand...
Remember too, that he was the creative hub in Jose's Madrid team, so I don't have an awful lot to say here.

Not sure if you watch Messi play but he definitely isn't a passenger. Messi presses the opposition all the time.
Click to expand...
Maybe the young Messi, but the Messi I have watched in the last few years is pretty much a poor man's Ozil when it comes to defending.
 
I think Brandt has a pretty low release clause this summer... something like £15m?

Bargain at that price and yeah I know young German probably go to bayern but at the low buy out we could chuck a big wage and signing fee into the mix and take a punt
 
sun_tzu said:
I think Brandt has a pretty low release clause this summer... something like £15m?

Bargain at that price and yeah I know young German probably go to bayern but at the low buy out we could chuck a big wage and signing fee into the mix and take a punt
Click to expand...
He is a left winger. I doubt we need one.
 
sun_tzu said:
I think Brandt has a pretty low release clause this summer... something like £15m?

Bargain at that price and yeah I know young German probably go to bayern but at the low buy out we could chuck a big wage and signing fee into the mix and take a punt
Click to expand...

Would pick Leon Bailey instead
 
Mcking said:
Maybe the young Messi, but the Messi I have watched in the last few years is pretty much a poor man's Ozil when it comes to defending.
Click to expand...
That’s because Messi is that level of talent where he’s instructed not to put in a shift defensively. Özil isn’t that good, as good as I think he is.

But then again, I think if Jose wanted Özil, he could get a lot more out of him than Wenger.
 
Ish said:
That’s because Messi is that level of talent where he’s instructed not to put in a shift defensively. Özil isn’t that good, as good as I think he is.

But then again, I think if Jose wanted Özil, he could get a lot more out of him than Wenger.
Click to expand...

And like with Cristiano the opposing FB is not going to venture too forward knowing that they have to deal with Messi.
 
Ish said:
That’s because Messi is that level of talent where he’s instructed not to put in a shift defensively. Özil isn’t that good, as good as I think he is.

But then again, I think if Jose wanted Özil, he could get a lot more out of him than Wenger.
Click to expand...
So you think Ozil is a luxury player too? The poster clearly labelled Ozil a luxury because he doesn't put in a defensive shift. I was merely pointing out Messi doesn't too which by that logic, makes him a luxury too.
 
Mcking said:
Well that was last summer. Two months later, it's clearly obvious in hindsight that it was(is) probably the least of our problems alongside GK and CB.
Click to expand...
If we were to get 2 top LWB and RWB that would sort out the wide player problem. Both Young and Valencia are the wrong side of 30 and cant always get up and down quickly enough over 90 mins.
 
Mcking said:
So you think Ozil is a luxury player too? The poster clearly labelled Ozil a luxury because he doesn't put in a defensive shift. I was merely pointing out Messi doesn't too which by that logic, makes him a luxury too.
Click to expand...
That depends. Ozil is a luxury player of sorts, but if you surround him with the right players, he can be devastating. It’s just a bit pointless to say Messi doesn’t defend either because Messi is on a different planet to Ozil, ability wise.
 
Hed Zitin said:
This is the priority signing now. Not a single player at this club is performing even adequately there.
Click to expand...

I'm starting to think that signing the likes of Özil wont make as much difference as we'd expect. It isn't just a case of signing another playmaker anymore (although we probably still need one anyway) but in addition the coaching of our attacking football needs to improve. We must learn to make more off the ball runs, switch the play, move the ball quicker etc. I look at Monaco 16/17 and it looks to me like they usually had only 1 true playmaker (Bernardo Silva, unless you count Lemar as one too) but their attacking play was very quick and decisive.
 
Ozil is a passenger because Wenger allows him to be. At Madrid, Ozil would get taken off every other game because he was told to do so much running. At Arsenal, Ozil waltz through most games.

Against Tottenham Ozil was taken off because he was asked by Wenger to do more running and Ozil did it because he was asked to.
 
breakout67 said:
Ozil is a passenger because Wenger allows him to be. At Madrid, Ozil would get taken off every other game because he was told to do so much running. At Arsenal, Ozil waltz through most games.

Against Tottenham Ozil was taken off because he was asked by Wenger to do more running and Ozil did it because he was asked to.
Click to expand...
But that just isn't true because Ozil still does the running and regularly is near the top of the distance covered.
 
limerickcitykid said:
But that just isn't true because Ozil still does the running and regularly is near the top of the distance covered.
Click to expand...

I think you misunderstood what I meant.

At Madrid - offensive work + defensive work = taken off at 70 mins every other game

At Arsenal - offensive work + no defensive work = plays 90 mins every game

Ozil does very little defensive work at Arsenal; he still does the offensive work because that is his game but he must be pushed by the manager to do more defensive work.
 
breakout67 said:
I think you misunderstood what I meant.

At Madrid - offensive work + defensive work = taken off at 70 mins every other game

At Arsenal - offensive work + no defensive work = plays 90 mins every game

Ozil does very little defensive work at Arsenal; he still does the offensive work because that is his game but he must be pushed by the manager to do more defensive work.
Click to expand...
Well you said running which is just false because he still does the running. It's non-sense criticism anyway, his defensive stats are the same at Arsenal as they were at Madrid. The criticism he gets is ridiculous.
 
This is so much more important than a lazy #10 like Ozil or a SS like Griezmann, we need a playmaking #8/AM that can prevent us being so easy to run through centrally while sharing creative duties with Pogba.
 
There are 3 players I'd like for us to sign for this problem - Jonathan Viera, Luis Alberto or Suso.

I think Viera is the best playmaker out of the three (and one of the best in the world) but he isn't great defensively which would be a hindrance. He doesn't work particularly hard and doesn't have the best stamina. When he has the ball, though, he's up there with the best of them in terms of creating chances. It also helps that, despite his size, he's a great shielder of the ball so that when he receives the balls in the channels or under pressure he doesn't lose it.

Suso's probably the best all rounder of the 3. Not only can he playmake to a good standard (I don't think he's as good as Viera or Alberto but still good nonetheless), he's a goal threat and, when out wide, can beat his man and whip in a good ball. So he could play in a 3 or on the right to a good standard providing more depth than the other two.

Luis Alberto reminds me a bit of David Silva. Lazio mainly play on the counter and he's a big reason as to why they are so efficient (along with Immobile) at their game plan. He can lose his marker with some great turns, is a pretty fast player with the ball at his feet, and is good at playing the final ball. When Lazio are in possession in the oppositions half, he's also very good at keeping the ball under pressure, moving the ball about to good effect, and great at unlocking packed defences. I wouldn't say he's as good a playmaker as Viera or as flexible as Suso, but would still be a fine option.
 
Yagami said:
There are 3 players I'd like for us to sign for this problem - Jonathan Viera, Luis Alberto or Suso.

I think Viera is the best playmaker out of the three (and one of the best in the world) but he isn't great defensively which would be a hindrance. He doesn't work particularly hard and doesn't have the best stamina. When he has the ball, though, he's up there with the best of them in terms of creating chances. It also helps that, despite his size, he's a great shielder of the ball so that when he receives the balls in the channels or under pressure he doesn't lose it.
Click to expand...
I've seen videos (obviously not the best way to scout) of him in the past and he looked very good. If he's so good, why has nobody been in for him/why hasn't he sought out greener pastures? Is he a Las Palmas fan or just a late bloomer?
 
SS said:
I've seen videos (obviously not the best way to scout) of him in the past and he looked very good. If he's so good, why has nobody been in for him/why hasn't he sought out greener pastures? Is he a Las Palmas fan or just a late bloomer?
Click to expand...
I watch Las Palmas a lot just because I enjoy watching him so much and I definitely think, right now, he's good enough to play for someone like us, but he's not always been as good as he is now. I used to watch Valencia quite a lot whilst he was there for one season (mainly due to Banega) and he looked so out of his depth. I didn't rate him highly at all. I just think he's a late bloomer, though he is a Las Palmas fan. He never played any of the passes he does now at Valencia (though he did at Rayo Vallecano but not as consistently as now) and he never took responsibility, but looking back, it seemed like he never really got a fair look in which could come down to himself of course.

So, despite his age and lack of experience at the top level, I think he'd be a fine signing because, to me, he's only just entered his prime only last season. He's up there with Pogba in terms of playmaking, and in regards to his defending not being up to par, that could be down the managerial instructions because he's so important to them attacking wise they might not want to weigh him down with defensive responsibilities.
 
Yagami said:
I watch Las Palmas a lot just because I enjoy watching him so much and I definitely think, right now, he's good enough to play for someone like us, but he's not always been as good as he is now. I used to watch Valencia quite a lot whilst he was there for one season (mainly due to Banega) and he looked so out of his depth. I didn't rate him highly at all. I just think he's a late bloomer, though he is a Las Palmas fan. He never played any of the passes he does now at Valencia (though he did at Rayo Vallecano but not as consistently as now) and he never took responsibility, but looking back, it seemed like he never really got a fair look in which could come down to himself of course.

So, despite his age and lack of experience at the top level, I think he'd be a fine signing because, to me, he's only just entered his prime only last season. He's up there with Pogba in terms of playmaking, and in regards to his defending not being up to par, that could be down the managerial instructions because he's so important to them attacking wise they might not want to weigh him down with defensive responsibilities.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. Based off what I've seen and what you've said, I hope we take a look at him. At his age, by the time he does start to decline, Gomes would hopefully be close to getting into the first XI.

For those that haven't heard of him:
 
Last edited:
I'm going to say Jose is going to go for that Portuguese guy at Watford
 
Hard to find this type of midfielder, I can't think of anyone that stands out.

Perhaps we could buy Fekir and employ him as a playmaker like City does with Silva. Fekir got some insane ball shielding and ball retention abillity, he is like the anti-Mkhitaryan.
 
I think we need another box to box player. Someone, like Pogba, who swings both ways - because at the moment if Pogba’s out or having an off day we’re truly fecked. Herrera brings feck all, Fellaini isn’t good enough and I’m confused as to what Mourinho see’s in McTominay.

Anyone else think Pereira will be brought back in Jan, even if he doesn’t want to? He’s a silky little player that can control games and perhaps exactly what we need to come on in games like yesterday. As much as I’m happy for him doing well at Valencia and his desire to improve there is great, but he’s our player. Unless we buy another midfielder I think we should recall him.
 
LennonNL said:
I think we need another box to box player. Someone, like Pogba, who swings both ways - because at the moment if Pogba’s out or having an off day we’re truly fecked. Herrera brings feck all, Fellaini isn’t good enough and I’m confused as to what Mourinho see’s in McTominay.

Anyone else think Pereira will be brought back in Jan, even if he doesn’t want to? He’s a silky little player that can control games and perhaps exactly what we need to come on in games like yesterday. As much as I’m happy for him doing well at Valencia and his desire to improve there is great, but he’s our player. Unless we buy another midfielder I think we should recall him.
Click to expand...

I can't see Pereira coming back in January to be honest. I think he could definitely add something to this team that we don't have, but I feel Jose has issues with him and prefers the likes of McTominay anyways (whether I agree with him on that is different, but hey).

In Summer though, we need to make a second playmaker the priority and I think we will by bringing Ozil in. We also need a RW and arguably a CM or 2 if Fellaini, Carrick and Herrera leave. We cannot afford to have this situation of playing the likes of McTominay and the Matic \ Herrera duo again next season as teams just steam roller us with ease.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.