The need for a second playmaker

I just watched Dortmund vs Bayern for the second time. Christian Pulisic was the only Dortmund player who showed up in a match for the league lead. He created multiple goal scoring chances alternating between right and left wings. His work vs a double team in the left corner set up Dortmund's only goal in the 88th minute.

If United want a playmaker who shows up in big games, creates goal scoring chances from positions all over the attacking third, and drops into his own half to pick up the ball and dribble forward with pace, Pulisic checks all the boxes. He plays with so much more skill, aggression, determination and strength than Mhki, Mata, and Lingard that there is no disputing Pulisic's quality.
 
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yo@Kirk said:
I just watched Dortmund vs Bayern for the second time. Christian Pulisic was the only Dortmund player who showed up in a match for the league lead. He created multiple goal scoring chances alternating between right and left wings. His work vs a double team in the left corner set up Dortmund's only goal in the 88th minute.

If United want a playmaker who shows up in big games, creates goal scoring chances from positions all over the attacking third, and drops into his own half to pick up the ball and dribble forward with pace, Pulisic checks all the boxes. He plays with so much more skill, aggression, determination and strength than Mhki, Mata, and Lingard that there is no disputing Pulisic's quality.
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No more players from Dortmund.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
It is cute that you guys think signing another "playmaker" would fix the major issue.
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Makes you weep doesn't it? What we really need is a midfielder and a right winger. Signing Ozil would just mean we'd force Mkhi on the bench and Mata would be sold. Which would also mean that in a few months Ozil will be the new Mkhi and Mkhi the new Mata. At this point we buy another playmaker and the cycle continues.
 
About the Brazilian players mentioned here:
1 - Malcom. He's not playmaker. Is a player suited to attacking football, maybe Spain. Needs the ball all the time or will get frustated; moans the entire game at each error from his teammates and is suspicious in defense.

2 - Talisca is not playmaker. Was a 9 at Bahia. I have no idea why hes playing so deep in europe.

3 - Arthur has that Iniesta style, tend to be a wanderful player, but it would be too much responsibility for a player without european experience.

4 - Fabinho would be excellent.
 
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prtk0811 said:
How about Mateo kovacic? Whats te situation with him in Madrid?
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Was on his way to establish himself as the first backup option in CM imo, especially since a fourth midfield spot was created for Isco. Got injured at the start of the season instead, and his return is scheduled for this month. Llorente and Ceballos are his competition in DM/CM, but neither gets significant gametime atm.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
No more players from Dortmund.
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Pulisic just turned 19 in September and Lothar Matthaus is calling for Bayern to snap him up quick to replace Robben. Mhki and Kagawa have never been nor will they ever be as good as Pulisic is at age 19. To compare 19yo Pulisic to 29 yo Mhki and 28 yo Kagawa is not in the best interests of Manchester United, IMO.
 
prtk0811 said:
Cohesive linkage will return with pogba and ibrahimovic with mkh forced wide, most us is are sure of it. Yes we do lack 2-3 players and quality on the ball in terms or creativity and passing but it comes down to the lack of balance you have as opposed to other midfeilds.

We just got a ball playing cbadt summer who is taking time to adapt to the league and the team. Rojo is a ball playing cb as well .
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I agree mate we are not as good as Madrid Barca but we have plenty out.
I agree on the full back situation

We could have much more creative side with our injuries back

----------------ddg----------------
Valencia---bailly-----rojo----blind
-------------matic---pogba--------
-----------------zlatan-------------
Martial---------lukaku-----rashford


There are some obvious limitations there full backs being main ones I put blind in for his passing ability over young.replace zlatan with griezman next year then too.

There is a definite threat there in that team and midfield 3 complete confidence on the ball wouldn't go hiding like miki
 
MyOnlySolskjaer said:
He seems like the ideal choice, he’ll take away the goal scoring burden from Lukaku. He’s a supporting striker that’s capable of scoring 15/20 goals in the league which is something we haven’t had since Rooney.
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Indeed. I'd love for us to get him. I'd been big on Fekir and Lacazette for awhile but the latter ship has sailed with him going to Arsenal. Really wish we wouldn't let the former get away too.
 
Pereira is the ideal playmaker for us.

Understands the club, the fans and will have played with several of our first team players already.
 
poacher said:
When people suggest United aren't good enough to win the title or challenge for the European and domestic honours there is an army of rabid supporters shouting them down, however, the more games we play against the top teams it's becoming clear that this team isn't good enough to win nothing. We need more creativity and dynamism across the board. It's not about adding a #10. There is no cohesive linkage from defence to the midfield to attack. There is no fluidity to the way we play. No top team resorts to 'hoofball' as often as us. To fix the problem we need to overhaul of the squad. We need a CB with skills to pass out from the back, we need a playmaker CM that can control the play like a general directing play and a #10 with pace and creativity and ball control, we need wingers that have pace and ability to beat a man and cross the ball, we need proper fullbacks not failed wingers and utility players and we need a manager that is interested in fluid attacking play rather than safety first defensive football.

To solve the problems I would suggest:
Aymeric Laporte CB
Ghoulam LB
Fabinho RB
Jorginho CM
Fekir AM
Leon Bailey RW

The players listed above are the technically skilled dynamic players Man City have in their squad. It is no coincidence that quite a few of the above players have been linked to Man City. Surely this is the direction Manchester United must head down as we can't keep hoofing the ball down the pitch hoping for a lucky break whilst hanging on grimly against superior teams. Lastly, if we bring in a better class of player lets not be afraid to remove players that aren't up to Manchester United standard. BTW many fans will say this kind of post is just a knee-jerk reaction to a loss, however, there are many posters that have thought this way for a very long time we are just afraid of being labelled negative and being shouted down.
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We don't need to sign that many players. Mental suggestion.
 
Nick. said:
We were reduced to long balls against Chelsea earlier today, we have not a single playmaker other than Pogba (no Mkhitaryan doesn't count, he's crap) to break down a capable defense. Who is out there on the market that would fit into the team? I don't personally care whether it's a creative central midfielder, a #10 or a wide playmaker; we just need somebody to take the creative burden off Pogba.

We must not be fooled by the scorelines against weaker teams earlier in the season; we will continue to drop points throughout unless we can bring in another player to help break down packed defenses so that we do not rely on Pogba evading injury for the duration of the season as our sole creator.

Chelsea used Eden Hazard and Cesc Fabregas to take us apart today; two creative attackers to ensure their football remained fluid and that the ball could be circulated in te event that we retreated back into shape quickly. City used David Silva and Kevin De Bruyne to take Arsenal apart earlier as well. Real Madrid won the Champion's League twice in a row with Luka Modric and Toni Kroos in their central midfield; we must do the same to have a chance.

I've compiled a small list of four creative playmakers I have seen people discuss on this website. Please help identify more.

Mesut Özil - Arsenal - AM:
+ PL experience, played under Mourinho before, good delivery on the final ball, functions in Mourinho's favoured 4-2-3-1, #10.
- Goes missing in the big games which account for approximately 30 points a season against the five other members of the top six, offers little defensively, doesn't run the game.

Nabil Fekir - Olympique Lyonnais - AM:
+ 23 years old, works hard defensively, difficult to dispossess, releases the ball quickly, goal threat, #10.
- Come back from long term injury, would he be considered a true "playmaker"? Will his ankles hold out from constant impact?

Malcom - Bordeaux - RW:
+ Young, skillful, can beat defenders, right winger (an area we must strengthen), big potential.
- Has yet to test his ability in a stronger league, likely expensive, can he make the step up to United from Bordaeux?

Jean Michaël Seri - OGC Nice - CM:
+ Creative, disciplined, good range of passing, central midfielder, not likely to be the most expensive option on this list.
- Has yet to test his ability in a stronger league, 5' 6", works defensively, the "budget" option?
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Just bring in Mahrez, I say...
 
Green_Red said:
We don't need to sign that many players. Mental suggestion.
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We could get by with fewer new additions but the reality is there are plenty of bang average players at the club that should be upgraded if we are to challenge for titles. We have a huge squad but the squad is mostly filled with squad players rather than first team players. The truth is man for man we are miles behind our main rivals. If we had better players then Jose would not have to resort to hoofball against the top teams. I doubt Chelsea, Spurs or City would take Lingard, Blind, Carrick, Fellaini, Shaw, Young, Smalling, Miki, Darmain, Lindelof.

Once we have a quality squad without major holes then we can throttle back the spending but till then we will have to continue to spend to get back to the top of European football and compete with the likes of Man City, Barca, Chelsea etc. We wouldn't have to spend our way to the top if LVG and Moyes had handed over a better squad to Jose.
 
poacher said:
We could get by with fewer new additions but the reality is there are plenty of bang average players at the club that should be upgraded if we are to challenge for titles. We have a huge squad but the squad is mostly filled with squad players rather than first team players. The truth is man for man we are miles behind our main rivals. If we had better players then Jose would not have to resort to hoofball against the top teams. I doubt Chelsea, Spurs or City would take Lingard, Blind, Carrick, Fellaini, Shaw, Young, Smalling, Miki, Darmain, Lindelof.

Once we have a quality squad without major holes then we can throttle back the spending but till then we will have to continue to spend to get back to the top of European football and compete with the likes of Man City, Barca, Chelsea etc. We wouldn't have to spend our way to the top if LVG and Moyes had handed over a better squad to Jose.
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A sign a ton of players in one window is a full proof strategy see AC Milan this season.
 
Keeps It tidy said:
A sign a ton of players in one window is a full proof strategy see AC Milan this season.
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I agree signing masses of players in a season leads to a disjointed team that takes time to bed down. We have seen that at Spurs, Everton and AC Milan in the recent past. I would overcome the issues associated with a rapid change in team personnel by splitting the required six signings into two windows. Laporte in January and the other five next summer. Five signings in a summer are not too many as Man City has shown. We could also copy Chelsea and Man City by slowly introducing the players into the first team. Lastly, I would say the fans would have to be patient and accept a top-four finish in the first year till the players gel with one another.
 
poacher said:
I agree signing masses of players in a season leads to a disjointed team that takes time to bed down. We have seen that at Spurs, Everton and AC Milan in the recent past. I would overcome the issues associated with a rapid change in team personnel by splitting the required six signings into two windows. Laporte in January and the other five next summer. Five signings in a summer are not too many as Man City has shown. We could also copy Chelsea and Man City by slowly introducing the players into the first team. Lastly, I would say the fans would have to be patient and accept a top-four finish in the first year till the players gel with one another.
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With all the terrible players you seem to think we have we will more than likely make the top 4 this season.
 
poacher said:
We could get by with fewer new additions but the reality is there are plenty of bang average players at the club that should be upgraded if we are to challenge for titles. We have a huge squad but the squad is mostly filled with squad players rather than first team players. The truth is man for man we are miles behind our main rivals. If we had better players then Jose would not have to resort to hoofball against the top teams. I doubt Chelsea, Spurs or City would take Lingard, Blind, Carrick, Fellaini, Shaw, Young, Smalling, Miki, Darmain, Lindelof.

Once we have a quality squad without major holes then we can throttle back the spending but till then we will have to continue to spend to get back to the top of European football and compete with the likes of Man City, Barca, Chelsea etc. We wouldn't have to spend our way to the top if LVG and Moyes had handed over a better squad to Jose.
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You could hav said that about any of the teams / squads we've had throughout the last 30 years though. And, you could say that about a heap of the other top six sides. In reality, a fully fit starting XI we are better than nearly every other starting XI in the league, except fo 2, maybe 3. On a good day, we can beat any team with our current squad. Hoofball is not the players, thats the tactics mate. You're pointing your finger in the wrong direction.

And, if this is all on the back of the Chelsea game (which I have to admit I didn't see), then you can't blame Jose for turning up and trying to play defensively and compact, we got thrashed in the Bridge 4-1 last season, so I can't blame him for trying to get out with a point, plus given the current form we're in. But to say we're shite and our squads not good enough is totally wrong. I can name at least 5 of our players we have that would walk into nearly any starting XI in the world. De Gea, Bailly, Valencia, Matic, Lakaku, Martial, Rashford, Pogba, and probably Jones too. Mikhataryan needs Pogba / a similar player to get the most out of his game.
 
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Keeps It tidy said:
With all the terrible players you seem to think we have we will more than likely make the top 4 this season.
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I agree we will probably make the top four this year even with the current squad we have. I am confident we will edge out Liverpool and Arsenal. The investment is to take us from sneaking into the top four to challenging for titles. The investment in players will allow us to play a better brand of football. Hopefully one day we can go away to a rival and impose ourselves on them rather than hang on grimly hoping to nick a goal.

If Man City and Chelsea can buy five players in a transfer window despite already having better squads then us then the notion that we could bring in five or six players is not that outrageous. Our rivals are not sitting still and we have to keep improving just to stay where we are let alone chase down clubs with limitless money. SAF could probably turn this motley group of players into title winners but SAF is long gone and I doubt Jose could work similar miracles.
 
Walters_19_MuFc said:
No more players from Dortmund.
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Looks like Dortmund’s playing style flatters their attacking players. We had Kagawa and Mkhitaryan now who have both been brilliant At Dortmund only to be average at United. Think we have a severe lack of movement and players committing themselves forward when we attack.
One trait both Kagawa and Mykytarin share is their intelligence in finding space that other players have vacated we don’t have much movement from midfield or attack to highlight this from these players.
Think if we are to continue with this style some like Dembele or Bale for their driving running style would be more beneficial to us.
 
yo@Kirk said:
I just watched Dortmund vs Bayern for the second time. Christian Pulisic was the only Dortmund player who showed up in a match for the league lead. He created multiple goal scoring chances alternating between right and left wings. His work vs a double team in the left corner set up Dortmund's only goal in the 88th minute.

If United want a playmaker who shows up in big games, creates goal scoring chances from positions all over the attacking third, and drops into his own half to pick up the ball and dribble forward with pace, Pulisic checks all the boxes. He plays with so much more skill, aggression, determination and strength than Mhki, Mata, and Lingard that there is no disputing Pulisic's quality.
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I was just about to say this, if we are looking for a De Bruyne type of player capable of possessing the ball in tight spaces and creatively attacking defenders, Pulisic might be the guy. Kid is only 19 years old and making defenders in the Bundeslega look like fools.
 
Green_Red said:
We don't need to sign that many players. Mental suggestion.
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I agree 100%, ppl are going overboard about changing half of the team!! 4 in and 4 out imo during Jan and Summer transfers windows !
 
4 players I would like over next 2 windows.

Tierney -- LB

Fabinho--BtB Midfielder (can play RB also)

Griezmann-- Playmaker

Leon Bailey -- RW

Like to see Fabinho and Leon Bailey coming in January, other 2 in the summer.
 
There is just such a lack of good wide playmaker options right now that I feel most likely it will be Ozil. Given a choice I would pick Griezmann over Ozil personally but the second creative player is likely a #10 or central midfielder and Ozil fits that M.O.

Whose peak level was higher, Griezmann 15/16 or Ozil w/e his best season at Real Madrid was?
 
Nick. said:
There is just such a lack of good wide playmaker options right now that I feel most likely it will be Ozil. Given a choice I would pick Griezmann over Ozil personally but the second creative player is likely a #10 or central midfielder and Ozil fits that M.O.

Whose peak level was higher, Griezmann 15/16 or Ozil w/e his best season at Real Madrid was?
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Ozil has better midfield capabilities while Griezmann has better forward capabilities. Which one is better depends on the players around them. They cannot be compared because they are different types of players.
 
Nick. said:
There is just such a lack of good wide playmaker options right now that I feel most likely it will be Ozil. Given a choice I would pick Griezmann over Ozil personally but the second creative player is likely a #10 or central midfielder and Ozil fits that M.O.

Whose peak level was higher, Griezmann 15/16 or Ozil w/e his best season at Real Madrid was?
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Theres not a lack, we just arent going for the options that become available when we should. Malcom is a perfect example of somebody who will have all the top teams after him, so we should try and get ahead if we can. Gelson martins is a very good right winger as well. Sane left Schalke when Pep went to City yet we didnt even hear a thing about him for United, when he wouldve been perfect. Dembele went to Dortmund and then Barca. And then finally we have Rashford here who wont be a first choice left winger for us in the future ahead of martial and probably not striker ahead of lukaku, so why not develop him as a right winger? Not like he hasnt played there before.
 
bosnian_red said:
Gelson martins is a very good right winger as well.
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Not that good. HE makes bad decisions and looses the ball too.

ALso you forgot to mention sadio mane where we snubbed him so stupidly for mkh when we needed both. Also i dont think rashford can cut inside from the right and be creative enough like sterling. He plays like a typical touchline hugger winger on the right but with great crosses and pace.
 
haram said:
Ozil :devil:
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I like Ozil for what he brings with the ball but I hate having a passenger in the team. Ozil doesn't track back and doesn't really defend so is often a passenger. Fekir would be a better option because he contributes offensively and is willing and able to defend rather than let attackers walk by him. Ozil on a free is tempting but I like the all-around play of Fekir more.
 
1. Expensive solutions: Griezmann, Dybala...
2. Smart ideas: Pastore...
 
poacher said:
I like Ozil for what he brings with the ball but I hate having a passenger in the team. Ozil doesn't track back and doesn't really defend so is often a passenger. Fekir would be a better option because he contributes offensively and is willing and able to defend rather than let attackers walk by him. Ozil on a free is tempting but I like the all-around play of Fekir more.
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Pirlo, Messi and Ronaldo are/were probably passengers too? What Ozil doesn't have in defensive ability, he more than compensates for it with his ability on the ball and creative nous. Appreciate what someone can do, not talk down on him for the ones he can't.
 
Mcking said:
Pirlo, Messi and Ronaldo are/were probably passengers too? What Ozil doesn't have in defensive ability, he more than compensates for it with his ability on the ball and creative nous. Appreciate what someone can do, not talk down on him for the ones he can't.
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All the more ridiculous because he is a number 10, you know a player who attacks. Yet people are most worried about how he defends. He averages roughly the same tackles and interceptions per 90 mins to Fekir anyway.
 
Mcking said:
Pirlo, Messi and Ronaldo are/were probably passengers too? What Ozil doesn't have in defensive ability, he more than compensates for it with his ability on the ball and creative nous. Appreciate what someone can do, not talk down on him for the ones he can't.
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He's clearly a good player but he isn't the best fit for United. He would be a better fit at Man City as they dominate most games. We can't afford a passenger on the team. Arsenal fans will tell you how frustrating it is to be playing with 10 men for large parts of the game. He is brilliant for Germany because there are people in the team covering for his lack of defensive contribution but we can't afford a luxury player like Ozil. Matic would be burnt out in no time covering for Ozil. Remember Jose likes everyone in the team to contribute defensively and won't be happy if a player just stands around and doesn't defend.

Not sure if you watch Messi play but he definitely isn't a passenger. Messi presses the opposition all the time.
 
poacher said:
I like Ozil for what he brings with the ball but I hate having a passenger in the team. Ozil doesn't track back and doesn't really defend so is often a passenger. Fekir would be a better option because he contributes offensively and is willing and able to defend rather than let attackers walk by him. Ozil on a free is tempting but I like the all-around play of Fekir more.
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You want Ozil to make tackles? He can press and cover ground if the team is set up correctly. I dont care about players running around for no reason and putting in shit challenges. Those players are trash.
 
limerickcitykid said:
Ozil is often at the top of the list for ground covered anyway so he clearly does enough running around.
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Exactly, if the running is concentrated and the pressing is done correctly Ozil won't be seen as a 'passenger'. People say he is lazy because he doesn't stomp around like Sanchez.
 
poacher said:
Not sure if you watch Messi play but he definitely isn't a passenger. Messi presses the opposition all the time.
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He did when Pep was around, not anymore. He runs less than 8 km per game (his CL stats are 7,45 km per game), which is very, very little.
 
limerickcitykid said:
All the more ridiculous because he is a number 10, you know a player who attacks. Yet people are most worried about how he defends. He averages roughly the same tackles and interceptions per 90 mins to Fekir anyway.
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It’s the change of mentality that Mourinho brought, that I’m not very fond of, which has also seeped to the fans.

Everyone must defend first and foremost. Wingers and #10s tracking players and spending half the time defending in their own half. It’s kinda difficult to warm up to.
 
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