The natural successor: Has Neymar blown it?

calodo2003 said:
Way too black & white here, no nuance at all.
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Any Bolsonaro supporter could make an equally long list of scandals from Lula.

Mind, I was living in Brazil when he first got elected talking of Fome Zero (Zero Hunger) and I would tell everyone they shouldn't be so worried, let it play out, maybe he can make things better...

And he did. He brought tens of millions out of poverty and the middle class in Brazil lools demonstrably stronger / more robust and enjoying a better standard of living than they did 20 years ago.

Last decade has been a shambles though, so I can see how the same split as everywhere else has emerged.
 
Neymar blew it some time ago.

He's not professional enough to be at the very top.

The guy noticeably has put on weight.

He used to be very fit in his Barca days, even until two years or so ago, but he's not the same as he was.

I think he's lost a bit of ambition honestly, he can show up and create special moments but he's not the golden boy to world football. I think Mbappe is the natural suitor now.

He's a typical Brazilian like Ronaldinho was.
 
TheNewEra said:
Neymar blew it some time ago.

He's not professional enough to be at the very top.

The guy noticeably has put on weight.

He used to be very fit in his Barca days, even until two years or so ago, but he's not the same as he was.

I think he's lost a bit of ambition honestly, he can show up and create special moments but he's not the golden boy to world football. I think Mbappe is the natural suitor now.

He's a typical Brazilian like Ronaldinho was.
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Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Romario, the list goes on. They were all notoriously unprofessional off the field but they performed on it and did infinitely more with their talent than Neymar has done. I think he was appointed as Brazil's figurehead out of desperation to find somebody to take up the mantle of the superstar after the previous era retired. I just don't think he was ever up to that, he has never been as good as the hype suggested.
 
antohan said:
Any Bolsonaro supporter could make an equally long list of scandals from Lula.

Mind, I was living in Brazil when he first got elected talking of Fome Zero (Zero Hunger) and I would tell everyone they shouldn't be so worried, let it play out, maybe he can make things better...

And he did. He brought tens of millions out of poverty and the middle class in Brazil lools demonstrably stronger / more robust and enjoying a better standard of living than they did 20 years ago.

Last decade has been a shambles though, so I can see how the same split as everywhere else has emerged.
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I am no Lula supporter either, but for every corruption scandal in Lula’s tenure there’s something worse Bolsonaro did. For thirty years as a politician Bolsonaro and his family have employed straw-man with public money to not work and give them back a share of their salaries. The guy who used to operate the scheme (Queiroz) was wanted by the police and he was found inside of Bolsonaro’s lawyer house! As soon as he was found Bolsonaro agreed with the head of congress (Arthur Lira) that most of the estate funds would be commanded by the congress in what is now being called “the secret budget”, a horror story of corruption scandals that saved Bolsonaro from being impeached. And that’s how presidentialism died in my country.

But yeah, back to Neymar, and back to the “typical brazilian” nonsense people are speaking about even though this year Neymar has been absolutely unplayable (and better than Mbappe again!) in league games…

What I really think is that most people don’t really care to watch the games and would rather spill their prejudices on internet forums.
 
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dinostar77 said:
The guardian on neymar.

"..Why does Neymar annoy people? Because he’s annoying. The on-pitch theatrics have been grim to watch, most notably the Total Tantrum-Ball stuff in 2018 and the habit of always appealing to the referee, something the journalist Tim Vickery says has links to growing up as a futsal kid, a discipline where fouls are called constantly and the ref is always on hand..."

https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...l-talent-toxic-qatar-world-cup-2022-end-point
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He has more right than any other attacker to protest to referees; he is literally fouled out of games and tournaments at the most absurd rate. That excerpt is daft.
 
Fortitude said:
He has more right than any other attacker to protest to referees; he is literally fouled out of games and tournaments at the most absurd rate. That excerpt is daft.
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Today, footballers fall apart as soon as wind blows. Being "fouled" doesn't say anything anymore. You look at some other sports and you start to wonder how footballer became so fragile.

When it comes to Neymar, it is pretty clear that playing in France wouldn't help him or picture of him being next thing. Good player but he is some way behind players like Ronaldinho.
 
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90 + 5min said:
Today, footballers fall apart as soon as wind blows. Being "fouled" doesn't say anything anymore. You look at some other sports and you start to wonder how footballer became so fragile.
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Nonsense really
 
11101 said:
Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Romario, the list goes on. They were all notoriously unprofessional off the field but they performed on it and did infinitely more with their talent than Neymar has done. I think he was appointed as Brazil's figurehead out of desperation to find somebody to take up the mantle of the superstar after the previous era retired. I just don't think he was ever up to that, he has never been as good as the hype suggested.
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you make it sound like he's Adriano or something

he's still had an amazing career, and he's Brazils top scorer

he's no Ronaldinho/Ronaldo obviously but then he didn't have the support cast those guys had either
 
90 + 5min said:
Today, footballers fall apart as soon as wind blows. Being "fouled" doesn't say anything anymore. You look at some other sports and you start to wonder how footballer became so fragile.

When it comes to Neymar, it is pretty clear that playing in France wouldn't help him or picture of him being next thing. Good player but he is some way behind players like Ronaldinho.
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It’s got nothing to do with ‘today’. He is legitimately fouled out of far, far too many games because fouls aren’t given against him to curtail the behaviour that leads to him being taken out at some point in the game. If ever a player had a right to dive and do whatever he can to not meet such a fate, it’s him.

Neymar hasn’t been given a fair crack of the whip to know how he would actually perform at a natural conclusion rather than being stretchered off or coming into the majority of these decisive games crocked, which is not the path Ronaldinho found himself on - he ‘failed’ 2006 all by himself, not because he was injured by the opposition.

My view of Neymar has changed over time because objectively, he has been the most mistreated of all the superstars outright. It would have been nice to see what he was actually capable of, rather than him yet again being busted up by the opposition. There’s not a single player in his bracket who has been as waylaid at the biggest points in his career. Maradona, Ronaldo and Rooney are a bracket down as they all got to have at least a few moments in the sun despite being crocked for a number of their supposed defining moments or chances to truly enhance their legacies. Since his stellar CL-winning run at Barca, Neymar has basically been cursed - the run of being injured by the opposition since then is absolutely mental.
 
Fortitude said:
It’s got nothing to do with ‘today’. He is legitimately fouled out of far, far too many games because fouls aren’t given against him to curtail the behaviour that leads to him being taken out at some point in the game. If ever a player had a right to dive and do whatever he can to not meet such a fate, it’s him.

Neymar hasn’t been given a fair crack of the whip to know how he would actually perform at a natural conclusion rather than being stretchered off or coming into the majority of these decisive games crocked, which is not the path Ronaldinho found himself on - he ‘failed’ 2006 all by himself, not because he was injured by the opposition.

My view of Neymar has changed over time because objectively, he has been the most mistreated of all the superstars outright. It would have been nice to see what he was actually capable of, rather than him yet again being busted up by the opposition. There’s not a single player in his bracket who has been as waylaid at the biggest points in his career. Maradona, Ronaldo and Rooney are a bracket down as they all got to have at least a few moments in the sun despite being crocked for a number of their supposed defining moments or chances to truly enhance their legacies. Since his stellar CL-winning run at Barca, Neymar has basically been cursed - the run of being injured by the opposition since then is absolutely mental.
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It interesting to see you state that you changed your mind over time. I remember that some of us made that a point a long time ago when people were claiming that he was soft or diving for no reason. It took Neymar a long time to dive and try to get fouls, in fact the most likely outcome was for him to not go down easily and instead lash out.

 
Tarrou said:
you make it sound like he's Adriano or something

he's still had an amazing career, and he's Brazils top scorer

he's no Ronaldinho/Ronaldo obviously but then he didn't have the support cast those guys had either
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I actually think he's massively underachieved given his talent. What's he done at PSG for the last six years?

Only one CL to his name, and that is with some of the greatest supporting cast in the history of the sport.
 
JPRouve said:
It interesting to see you state that you changed your mind over time. I remember that some of us made that a point a long time ago when people were claiming that he was soft or diving for no reason. It took Neymar a long time to dive and try to get fouls, in fact the most likely outcome was for him to not go down easily and instead lash out.

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Yeah, it just absurd by now. I used to be of the view he was hamming it up, but I have definitely changed my tune on this because the guy barely gets to play out a tournament, through no fault of his own.
 
JPRouve said:
It interesting to see you state that you changed your mind over time. I remember that some of us made that a point a long time ago when people were claiming that he was soft or diving for no reason. It took Neymar a long time to dive and try to get fouls, in fact the most likely outcome was for him to not go down easily and instead lash out.

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Watched the full clip. Pretty brutal.

Three things strike you:

1) He reacts like a little bitch, which is why it took so long for many to not see it as exaggerated theatrics. This probably applies to refs as well, which doesn't help him.

2) His showboating and attitude has always riled rivals. Messi or Iniesta dribbled people purely for footballing purposes, Neymar often just did it for the sake of it, which gets you kicked in retaliation. A lot of those fouls are pissed off defenders not thinking straight.

3) His teammates don't help much either. Look out for fouls on Messi and you will see the whole Argie team rush in support and AN Other will retaliate on his behalf soon enough. I'd expect the same if one of our United players got kicked around like that. No one reacts much though, neither for club or country. I find that bizarre, maybe at club level he isn't making many friends, but Brazil? Why isn't he protected by his Brazil teammates?
 
11101 said:
Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Romario, the list goes on. They were all notoriously unprofessional off the field but they performed on it and did infinitely more with their talent than Neymar has done. I think he was appointed as Brazil's figurehead out of desperation to find somebody to take up the mantle of the superstar after the previous era retired. I just don't think he was ever up to that, he has never been as good as the hype suggested.
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He's been every bit as good as the hype suggested, just developed the unfortunate superpower of constantly getting injured at the wrong time. The one time he wasn't injured he took PSG to the CL final
 
giorno said:
He's been every bit as good as the hype suggested, just developed the unfortunate superpower of constantly getting injured at the wrong time. The one time he wasn't injured he took PSG to the CL final
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Funny that hes always injured around the time of his sisters birthday.

A career of wasted potential. Threw it down the toilet when he signed for PSG.

The one time PSG got to the CL final was the covid lockdown when the knockout stages were reduced to a single leg.

Players much better than him, get fouled all the time but get in with it, without the hysterionics and playacting.

A cautionary talent of a wasted career and not willing to sacrifice everything to scale the peaks of football.
 
dinostar77 said:
Funny that hes always injured around the time of his sisters birthday.

A career of wasted potential. Threw it down the toilet when he signed for PSG.

The one time PSG got to the CL final was the covid lockdown when the knockout stages were reduced to a single leg.

Players much better than him, get fouled all the time but get in with it, without the hysterionics and playacting.

A cautionary talent of a wasted career and not willing to sacrifice everything to scale the peaks of football.
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Not willing to sacrifice? What do you mean by that?
 
Tarrou said:
you make it sound like he's Adriano or something

he's still had an amazing career, and he's Brazils top scorer

he's no Ronaldinho/Ronaldo obviously but then he didn't have the support cast those guys had either
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Has he had an amazing career?

He's made a lot of money, sure, but what's he achieved? He was lucky enough to be at Barcelona when Messi was at his peak for the treble season, otherwise there's not much to boast about in his club career, and for Brazil he is most notable for their failures.
 
11101 said:
Has he had an amazing career?

He's made a lot of money, sure, but what's he achieved? He was lucky enough to be at Barcelona when Messi was at his peak for the treble season, otherwise there's not much to boast about in his club career, and for Brazil he is most notable for their failures.
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scored over 400 goals (and probably around 200 assists?) and counting and won loads of titles along the way, and he's all time top scorer for the Brazil national team

he's been injured for Brazil at crucial times, so it's a bit unfair to lay any blame at his door for that
 
dinostar77 said:
Funny that hes always injured around the time of his sisters birthday.

A career of wasted potential. Threw it down the toilet when he signed for PSG.

The one time PSG got to the CL final was the covid lockdown when the knockout stages were reduced to a single leg.

Players much better than him, get fouled all the time but get in with it, without the hysterionics and playacting.

A cautionary talent of a wasted career and not willing to sacrifice everything to scale the peaks of football.
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His sisters birthday is in march so yeah, if he picks up a bad injury a couple of months into the season, there's chances he's injured in march. I'm trying to figure out how it's funny though, did he break his ankle on purpose so he can go to his sister's birthday? Not once did he go to his sister's birthday since he arrived at PSG unless he was badly injured and off the pitch for months.

Also, Neymar's "playacting" got really bad in the 2018 WC, when he trained very hard to be back for his NT after his 1st ankle fracture so it was obviously ridiculous but I assume he was traumatized and didn't want to leave the WC. Lets remember that Neymar litteraly had his back broken on the pitch in the 2014 WC and was an inch away from being paralysed.

He tuned down his playacting a lot for a couple of years now, it's really not that bad.
 
People in here acting like he's had a poor career :lol:

The cafe for whatever reason has been heavily biased against him.

He's no Pele or Ronaldo Nazario, but you can easily make an argument for Neymar over Ronaldinho.

His biggest problem is that he simply can't stay fit lately and gets injured at the worst times possible.
 
The reason why Neymar is not rated as highly as he should is that he is perceived as having "taken the money" to go to PSG at his peak - and the one way to make up for that would be to:

1) Win the World Cup
2) Win the Champions League

or at least:

3) Be the best player in either competition.

This has not happened in the last 5 years. He's only been in one CL final. He was slightly unfortunate this time in the World Cup as he scored a truly brilliant goal at a vital moment - but the team conspired to mess up the last few minutes.
 
11101 said:
Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Romario, the list goes on. They were all notoriously unprofessional off the field but they performed on it and did infinitely more with their talent than Neymar has done. I think he was appointed as Brazil's figurehead out of desperation to find somebody to take up the mantle of the superstar after the previous era retired. I just don't think he was ever up to that, he has never been as good as the hype suggested.
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Such a ridiculous post :lol: Only one that is arguable there is Ronaldo. Neymar's better than both Ronaldinho and Romario
 
Eddy_JukeZ said:
People in here acting like he's had a poor career :lol:

The cafe for whatever reason has been heavily biased against him.

He's no Pele or Ronaldo Nazario, but you can easily make an argument for Neymar over Ronaldinho.

His biggest problem is that he simply can't stay fit lately and gets injured at the worst times possible.
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That’s nonsense. Top Brazilian goal scorer? Sure. Lasted longer than Ronaldinho? Certainly but in terms of peak, legacy and impact on the game he’s nowhere near Dinho. One is a top player and the other one sit amongst GOATS. Absolute blasphemy to put Neymar over that magical smiling buck tooth beaut Brazilian.
 
TsuWave said:
Such a ridiculous post :lol: Only one that is arguable there is Ronaldo. Neymar's better than both Ronaldinho and Romario
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I'm going to guess you are too young to have seen any of the three play.
 
TsuWave said:
Such a ridiculous post :lol: Only one that is arguable there is Ronaldo. Neymar's better than both Ronaldinho and Romario
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He is not better than Romario and it is laughable to believe otherwise. Romario is one of the 5 best brazilian players of all time. Ability-wise I'd put him level with Dinho, but he just doesn't have Dinho's resume to say he is better
 
Gio said:
Aye I’m not sure. The 98 final was such a farce with Brazil so shell-shocked and effectively down to 10 it’s hard to draw any meaningful conclusions. The semi-final against Holland showed that Ronaldo on his game could get them over the line even when they looked like they were up against a better team. But it also showed Brazil were vulnerable at crosses and Kluivert had the chances to knock them out. Zidane would not be so forgiving. I reckon Zagallo made mistakes in not selecting Mauro Silva (the sort of annoying player that could have kept a closer handle on a dominant Zidane) and Romario (who would likely have been well recovered by that point) in his squad. The latter would’ve made any decision to drop Ronaldo less of a disaster.
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You're spot on about romario and Mauro although it might be a bit of hindsight but as it stands they really struggled against Netherlands and I really doubt an on form France with Zidane firing on all cylinders would let them slip away, they simply didn't look like a team that belonged in a world cup final and im not sure adding striker(be it an all time great one) would change much.

That era of Brazilian football always gets a tad over rated in my opinion, they were stacked full of wonderful players but they never combined to make a truly devastating national team the way some others did and they never really impressed me much when I watched them(I didn't see their copa wins so maybe they did impress there)

Hell I go on to say that the less remembered 1994 team was better than the following incarnations of them which says a lot.
 
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Ronaldinho's and Romario's reps running on nostalgia stimulus package
 
TsuWave said:
Such a ridiculous post :lol: Only one that is arguable there is Ronaldo. Neymar's better than both Ronaldinho and Romario
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Dont agree more longevity but I feel the other two had higher peaks.

And Ronaldo is not arguable at all, no one would have Neymar above Ronaldo.
 
Righteous Steps said:
Ronaldo is not arguable at all, no one would have Neymar above Ronaldo.
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I agree with this to be fair, out of those three, he's the only one I have above him

Righteous Steps said:
How?

If anything time has made Romario underrated.
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I guess I put more importance on longevity than I do "peaks". Also, people rag on Neymar for going to the supposed "farmer's league" then turn around and want to put Romario on a pedestal. Come on man.
 
TsuWave said:
I guess I put more importance on longevity than I do "peaks". Also, people rag on Neymar for going to the supposed "farmer's league" then turn around and want to put Romario on a pedestal. Come on man.
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Romario won a world cup almost single-handedly. What are we even talking about here
 
giorno said:
Romario won a world cup almost single-handedly. What are we even talking about here
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You’re talking about fanfiction. Me? I’ve responded to someone who mentioned these players supposedly having higher peaks and said I guess I put more importance on longevity over peaks.
 
TsuWave said:
You’re talking about fanfiction. Me? I’ve responded to someone who mentioned these players supposedly having higher peaks and said I guess I put more importance on longevity over peaks.
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What fanfiction? :lol:

And longevity? Romario scored almost a goal a game for PSV and Barcelona over a period of 6 seasons and won a world cup almost by himself before the saudade kicked in and brought him back to Brazil. He was the actual, undisputed best player in the world for a couple of years - would have been more if he didn't coincide with Marco Van Basten. It's not like he was a one year wonder ffs
 
giorno said:
What fanfiction? :lol:

And longevity? Romario scored almost a goal a game for PSV and Barcelona over a period of 6 seasons and won a world cup almost by himself before the saudade kicked in and brought him back to Brazil. He was the actual, undisputed best player in the world for a couple of years - would have been more if he didn't coincide with Marco Van Basten. It's not like he was a one year wonder ffs
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I learned a new word today. Thanks!
 
kaku06 said:
That’s nonsense. Top Brazilian goal scorer? Sure. Lasted longer than Ronaldinho? Certainly but in terms of peak, legacy and impact on the game he’s nowhere near Dinho. One is a top player and the other one sit amongst GOATS. Absolute blasphemy to put Neymar over that magical smiling buck tooth beaut Brazilian.
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Ronaldinho sits nowhere near the GOATs of the game. He has such few world class seasons and he didn't perform at all for Brazil. He is ridiculously overrated nowadays. He's one of my favorite players too, but people look back with rose-tinted glasses for his career. His performances at the 2006 WC were terrible and he was the reigning BPITW expected to lead Brazil to WC glory, and he completely flopped at the WC.

And Ronaldinho not caring to stay in shape/remain in top form is an indictment against him. Neymar destroys him longevity wise and we can't even use injuries to validate Ronaldinho's gigantic fall from grace. He simply stopped caring after a while and kept declining and declining.

Ronaldinho's peak is also not winning a Ballon D'Or if it coincides with Messi's prime.
 
mu4c_20le said:
I actually think he's massively underachieved given his talent. What's he done at PSG for the last six years?

Only one CL to his name, and that is with some of the greatest supporting cast in the history of the sport.
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Total nonsense. How can a guy with 650 career goal contributions, 400 goals (as a number 10), 77 international goals (20+ more than anyone has ever managed in the entire history of the England national team for example), CL and Copa Lib titles and nearly 30 trophies overall have 'massively underachieved'? That's just a ridiculous statement I'm afraid.
 
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