The time in ligue 1?
The natural successor: Has Neymar blown it?
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
This might shock you, but both played in Ligue 1, and overall Neymar's been better in La Liga, Ligue 1, or CL.
Yes and one played for a team barely making top 4 while the other one is basically playing for a 'Football Manager with FMRTE save game editor' club.
You're thinking of Bayern Munich there.
To be honest I think he was pretty dominant in Barcelona’s big games from 2004-2006. Recall some massive performances against Real, Chelsea and Milan.
He was incredible in the big games.
The infamous toe-poke goal at the Bridge in 2005, the solo effort vs them the following year at the Nou Camp in 2006, his majestic pass to Giuly at the San Siro vs Milan in 2006 which was the only goal in the tie, his 2 goals vs Real at the Bernabeu.
He was a bit subdued in the CL final, but he was incredible in a lot of big games for those 2 years. It's a shame he couldn't carry it over to that WC in Germany, but in hindsight, that Brazil team was constructed horribly.
He just can't stay fit lately.
He gets injured during the worst times. Constantly missed CL ties. 2 straight WCs in his prime that he's not 100% because of injury.
It's a shame, but his move to PSG has led to his body breaking down over and over.
He gets injured during the worst times. Constantly missed CL ties. 2 straight WCs in his prime that he's not 100% because of injury.
It's a shame, but his move to PSG has led to his body breaking down over and over.
You're right he was pretty good against Chelsea (don't remember the Milan game that much outside of the controversial puyol goal) , perhaps my view of him is tainted due to the final where he was mostly invisible.
Huge respect for this. Ronaldo and Messi storm out of stadium when they lose a match.
No i'm thinking of PSG. Before they got bought by Qatar they were absolute pants in the league.
After - 2nd , 1st, 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 1st, 1st, 1st, 2nd, 1st
Before -4th, 13th, 6th, 16th, 15th, 9th, 9th, 2nd. 11th, 4th
Yeah I take back what I said, he could pretty great in those big games.
Rather than framing at as the hero moment, some people (staff) look at the 5th penalty as the moment with the most pressure and that’s when they want someone with the nerves to handle it. They’re banking on the idea that their first 4 are at least as good as the opposition’s. I agree it’s a gamble that seems to backfire more often than not, but there’s more logic to it than you’re implying.
This World Cup’s been unusual for penalties too. In the last World Cup all 10 penalty takers got a kick in Croatia-Russia, Colombia-England and Croatia-Denmark, and Spain got all 5 penalties against Russia (Russia didn’t need the 5th as they got all 5). So it’s not really irrational to think you’ll need your 5th penalty taker for a huge moment.
Modric went 3rd and scored in both those shootouts too, I’ve just noticed. What a hero.
It was all about personal glory. The three best penalty takers should take the first three penalties in any order they choose. A good start to a penalty shootout is essential. There is a statistic that the first team to go one up with equal penalties taken wins the shootout 75% of the time.
Neymar wanting to take the 5th was all about him. He chose personal glory over the team and it backfired. The sooner Brazil move on and realize Neymar is not Pele or Ronaldo (Brazilian) they will be better for it.
Three World Cups they have built around him and they have been rubbish by the standards set by pervious teams.
I rate him above two on that least
Yeah, money makes a difference in the league, if you're a United fan I'm sure you got to enjoy it as well until other teams started spending big too. But we didn't run 10 straight league titles despite all that money, and we don't hoard all the talents within our own league either. But why am I even getting into a debate with you, you're the kind of dude that uses words like farmer's league, I don't care what you think of it or anybody else who talks like that.
Fair enough if you put him over Romario, I don't but it's close.
Newcastle literally outspent UTD in the 90s
Cute story. We're in 2022, who's leading the chart over the last 10 years? United with a net expenditure of over 1 billion. No team has outspent you in that time.
Yeah and i'm so proud the owners invested so much of it's money. Oh wait it was the club's money
Premier league clubs have money to spend while Ligue 1 don't so it's not even comparable. First it was Newcastle, then came Chelsea and now it's City. Look how much they've been spending before Utd even started to properly spend.
not even the first three but even the fourth would have made sense too. I think waiting on the 5th is just way too risky of a strategy and just isn’t worthwhile when you consider you may not even take one and you’re having inexperience players take ones before you.
That was only because of the game against France.
Before that game, nobody was talking about unbalanced team or a team poorly constructed, as they were ultra favorites against France in quarter final.
Neymar is so despised by the masses that he's never objectively looked at. He's the most fouled superstar I've ever seen play majors, and that's inclusive of even Maradona; it's not even a case of toughening up; Neymar is always injured by a dirty opposition tackle and prevented from finding his form or feet in these tournaments.
It's incredible that it's not a talking point in the sport and across the internet. If it was any other superstar than Neymar it would be.
His prime World Cup years have been robbed from him. He clearly wasn't fit yesterday and I should imagine part of his distress would come from not being able to contribute to the game like he would've been capable of. This despite the goal, which was an effecitve moment in a mostly ineffective game.
It's a real shame we'll never see what he could have been capable of if not effectively taken out of the World Cup. Pele was robbed of '62, Maradona had to play '90 unfit, but at least we got to see both have World Cup's where they could perform to that version's best (we never saw Pele's peak-peak, but we saw what both the very young and old versions of him could do); Neymar has not once had that opportunity and I'm sure it's devastating for him.
It's incredible that it's not a talking point in the sport and across the internet. If it was any other superstar than Neymar it would be.
His prime World Cup years have been robbed from him. He clearly wasn't fit yesterday and I should imagine part of his distress would come from not being able to contribute to the game like he would've been capable of. This despite the goal, which was an effecitve moment in a mostly ineffective game.
It's a real shame we'll never see what he could have been capable of if not effectively taken out of the World Cup. Pele was robbed of '62, Maradona had to play '90 unfit, but at least we got to see both have World Cup's where they could perform to that version's best (we never saw Pele's peak-peak, but we saw what both the very young and old versions of him could do); Neymar has not once had that opportunity and I'm sure it's devastating for him.
Fully agree. If referees and all of us did a better job of protecting this mercurial talent, we would have seen far better versions of him than we have at World Cups. Unfortunately, his best World Cup came when he wasn’t when the world class player he is now, in 2014.
I still remember United vs PSG, 2020. He was brilliant. I can’t remember being as truly impressed with an opposition player as I was with him that day in my almost 14 years watching United. He tore us to shreds.
They weren't looking great before that game either.
They were only focused on the names and not their shape/performances.
I know, must have been so annoying to have a ligue 1 club taking some of your transfer targets away and being actually relevant. How dare they?Yeah and i'm so proud the owners invested so much of it's money. Oh wait it was the club's money
Premier league clubs have money to spend while Ligue 1 don't so it's not even comparable. First it was Newcastle, then came Chelsea and now it's City. Look how much they've been spending before Utd even started to properly spend.
Do you think City will use the same lame excuse you just did about Newcastle outspending you in the 90’s when it comes to their spending compared to United?
He is/was Brasil’s generational talent in the last decade yet they did not have any real sniff at WC glory during his tenure, which is a daming indictment for his personally and as a leader… he will have a last chance as a role player in 2026 imho, sort of make or break for his legacy.
Got his back broken during knockouts in 2014 (with the team collapsing soon after his exit), was rushed back from injury for 2018 and literally got injured AND rushed back from injury for 2022. I don't think it indicates anything about him other than being crazy unlucky not to have one clean tournament.
Despite being a generational talent, at club level he was forever playing under shadow of Messi at Barca, and Mbappe at PSG. At international level he never ever manage to win anything major for his country. His best achievement to date was probably scoring lots of goals for Brazil in friendlies.
He's literally been injured the past 3 World Cups.
Anyone would play under Messi's shadow at Barcelona and the two of them are probably the best attacking duo of our time.
Mbappe has only been better than Neymar last season at PSG. When you watch PSG, it's clear who the creative fulcrum and key player of the time is(prior to Messi's arrival).
He averaged 50 games in the first 8 seasons f his career. Since his move to PSG, the most he played in a season is 31 games.
It has been a disappointing career for someone of his talents. His best achievement with Brazil being an Olympic medal is way below expectations.
It has been a disappointing career for someone of his talents. His best achievement with Brazil being an Olympic medal is way below expectations.
TIte stills considers it was the right call, I highly doubt Neymar just decided he wanted his moment of glory. He was probably wrong but that was Tite's vision :
"He is the fifth and decisive penalty taker," Tite confirmed. "The player who has more quality and the mentality to step up then is under greatest pressure."
It wouldn't surprise me at all that an old fashion coach like Tite decided it was the right way to go despite statistical evidence of the contrary.
And about the 3 WC comment, some posters have already explained that he was injured every time, including one when he litteraly had his back broken on the pitch, that's a terrible way to measure his performances.
Yeah, it was not a jibe on my part (there would be margin for a couple or three when talking about his attitude at PSG, especially early in his stint there), it’s just the crude facts. I still think he lacked/lacks the leadership traits someone like Thiago Silva had to show in the bad times, while shielding a number of clowns playing for his NT.
That is such an old fashioned and wrong take. The 5th penalty is obviously not the decisive one since he never got to take it. Why not make him the 6th penalty taker? That one is decisive as well and even more pressure.
It's obviously wrong but you'd be surprise to know the amount of old fashion coaches that still have beliefs that ignore basic statistical evidence.
Oh, don’t get me wrong. I know and I agree with you. But why are these people in charge of these major decisions when they are that ignorant?
Not to mention he joined PSG at age 25-30, which is supposed to be his prime years. Its kind of a waste of his career of what it has turned out, given his talent, although he did earn alot of money going there.
Does anyone think Neymar would have become a more rounded player (and mentally stronger) if he had moved to PL rather than PSG?