I think he even would miss fixures around this date for Barcelona also not just at PSG. As for the other Brazilians I agree to a certain extent but a lot of them players had a balance but then eventually let themselves go completely. You can see a clear change in Ronaldinhos physique before and after 2006, even though its well known he would party hard even in his PSG days. I think it can work if you keep a balance, but theres no doubt these guys could keep their top level a little longer if their work ethic stayed the same through their career, most of them stopped working as hard once they made it to the top.
The natural successor: Has Neymar blown it?
- Thread starter Fortitude
- Start date
I am not sure it was his move to PSG (even though it certainly didn't help). I think he never recovered after the horrible injury during the World Cup. It has been a different, deflated Neymar since then. His ego is still as high, or even higher, but his abilities - no more.
You've seen him play against Atalanta?
It's just not the way it works for a lot of brazilian players. For them football is a party (especially when they're talented) and their lifestyle matches this philosophy. There's no guarantee Ronaldinho would have been that good being more serious because it wouldn't have been him. Actually, it's well known that Ronaldo was even big a partier. But it does make very short careers.
You obsiously have no idea of what you're talking about. I actually don't know why would people comment without having a single clue about the subject.
1) he was great in many games since he came back from his injury
2) he has absolutely no ego issues. A lot of cafers predicted that it wouldn't go well with Mbappé stealing part of his light, and it's not even remotely what's going on. Neymar is an amazing playmaker and has no trouble giving assists instead of scoring. He even said on TV he was fine only helping Mbappé as much as he could on the pitch.
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I wonder what level Kaká would have reached if not for the injuries, because unlike Ronaldinho, Ronaldo and Neymar, he wasn't really a party guy. Even when things went very bad for him at Madrid, he never stopped training and trying to change Mourinho's mind. He had arguably the same level of profesionalism as Messi and C.Ronaldo.
I think that people mix his confidence and openeness with ego. On the field he generally makes an effort defensively and he is always looking for his teammates when he is on the ball, I'm actually not sure if he cares much about stats.
Neymar is nowhere near Ronaldo and Messi level / greatness and I doubt he will ever be. He has the quality to be right there, he just lacks everything else. I do enjoy watching him play but he isn't the kind of player that is going to carry a team to win a CL let alone carry the team consistently like both Messi and Ronaldo did over a decade.
When did Messi carry a team to a CL win? In 2015, Neymar is actually as good as he is.
Did Ronaldo really carry Real Madrid when they had the best defensive line and the best midfield in the world? Come on, no player "carries" a team to a CL win, this is absurd.
The sure thing is, he scored against Dortmund and carried PSG against Atalanta, nobody knows how it'll go next but saying he lacks everything else but the quality is just total BS.
This whole thread is getting ridiculous.
Come on bro, Ronaldo carried Madrid to at least one of their UCL wins
Carrying a team to a CL win doesn't necessarily means that they won every game by themselves, it just means they were the core reason (or the main one atleast) why that happened during the CL journey. And it can be argued that Ronaldo carried the RM team in one of the CL seasons where he was pretty much a one man army in the KO stages.
RM defensive line was always overrated, what made them so dangerous was their offensive mindset as team. Defensive wise they most of the time looked like they would concead goals but on the other other hand it was likely they would outscore the other team just as easily. Marcelo was poor defensively and incredibly dangerous going forward, Ramos was way too error / red card prone but he was a great header and scored a decent amount of clutch goals, Varane performances were either really good or prone to errors, etc.
When was the last time that you can say Neymar was the core reason why his team won wtv competition? His injuries didn't help much to his cause, but there's no way you can mention his name alongside both CR and Messi. Like I said, it's not because he lacks talent but he didn't do much in his career bar playing in a stacked Barcelona (where he actually did a great job and helped them win) and then went to PSG to play in a farmers league and win a competition they would win anyway without him. Kinda what Ronaldo did but Ronaldo had nothing left to prove at that point in his career
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Yeah sure guys, they had prime Marcelo/Ramos/Varane/Carvajal-Modric/Casemiro/Kroos + Benezema but Ronaldo was "carrying them".
I'd never put Neymar's name alongside Messi's or Ronaldo's, but saying that "he lacks everything but quality" is just plain wrong. For starters, he has for more leadership than Messi,
I'd never put Neymar's name alongside Messi's or Ronaldo's, but saying that "he lacks everything but quality" is just plain wrong. For starters, he has for more leadership than Messi,
I think this season has reset many calculations. Existing top top players are no longer there, whereas Neymar and PSG dominating would automatically qualify him as the best, if it continues...
This season looks like the end of the Messi/ Ronaldo dominance.
What we will return to is different players pushing for the best player each year. Neymar will be in the mix, but there will be lot harder to predict who will be the best players in the next few years.
What we will return to is different players pushing for the best player each year. Neymar will be in the mix, but there will be lot harder to predict who will be the best players in the next few years.
How can you have watched him against Atalanta and believe his abilities have diminished?
I don't think Neymar is going to end up anywhere near Messi and Ronaldo. I also disagree that Neymar was as good as Messi in 2015. The latter was definitely the better footballer although Neymar was also excellent.
However I do agree with you that the whole "they carried teams to the CL" is rubbish. Messi had a brilliant supporting cast with Xavi/Neymar/Iniesta /Pique helping him. Ronaldo has Modric/Kroos/Benzema/Ramos/Bale and often out the finishing touches to their great work. In the end, teams that good are not carried by any one player.
I totally did. For 80 minutes, he could not shoot towards the goal. It was quite sad
I am not sure in what world you live, but in this world there's big difference between "was great in many games" and being world's #1. Neymar has not wowed anybody, the way he used to before his injury, the way that would make you believe he's the next #1 in the world. The way that resembles anything that we have seen from Messi for over a decade.
"Neymar has no ego issues"? Are you fecking serious? He's a walking-talking egocentric. Why the hell did he leave Barca to begin with? Or have you heard the comments about him from his own club president? What reality are you in?
Not a natural successor as he isn't that good, and never was that great. He is similar to Hazard maybe, cause in terms of pure talent you just couldn't rule them out as the successors to Messi and Ronaldo, but they lack the professional character to take them all the way. Still a good player though.
Listen, I see Neymar every week, I see the way he interacts with his teamates, I see his behaviour on and off the pitch, there's absolutely 0 ego issue with him, despite the fact that he plays alongside a rising stars that any club wants to get. I don't really care about your tabloid rumors or what you think you read in the sun 3 years ago. We're talking about Neymar today and his behaviour is impeccable.
Glad to hear you love him. Keep him. Buy more like him. Please stay away from our Greenwood, because our guy can actually aim at the goal
And being young, may still win Ballon d'Or, which Neymar probably never will, at this point cheers
100%
Glad to hear you love him. Keep him. Buy more like him. Please stay away from our Greenwood, because our guy can actually aim at the goal
cheers
100%
It's not about loving him or not, it's actually about having an educated opinion about the subject you're commenting on. Good luck with your Greenwood, i'd rather have Neymar any day of the week. And worst case scenario, we also have Mbappé.
PSG are to France what Celtic are to Scotland.
Just remember Greenwood is a homegrown, local lad - that means a hell of a lot to supporters. If you spunk £200m on a striker, you should expect him to be at least half decent.
Speaking of educated opinions – this may shock you, but I am certain most United supporters would not trade Greenwood for Neymar, with you. So there's that.
Neymar is a level above Hazard and has been for years.
They're nowhere similar.
Hazard will go missing and hide in a big game. He's also never truly performed in the Champions League.
Who cares and how does it have anything to do with the discussion on Neymar?
Greenwood?! I’d send him on the plane myself if it was a straight swap for Neymar, and I think the kid is special too, but I suspect most neutrals would because there’s no guarantee Greenwood has a linear progression, Neymar is at least a sure thing when he’s fit. Just the epitome of top red. Good for you.
Always funny to me how people always gotta assign him some negative intangibles or attack his character. I don't know how you can say Neymar has a bad mentality, you cannot get to the level he is without a rare and elite mindset.
I wonder what the who people criticise Neymar's attitude think of Bale's actions at Madrid? The way I see it Bale is the epitome of a mercenary bum with an awful attitude, but he has more than his share of sympathisers on this forum. I guess that's the benefit of being British with a workmanlike image as opposed to being foreign with a more glamorous image.
As for playing in France, yeah it's not exactly the toughest league around but let's not act like he doesn't always perform for them in the CL, like he doesn't play great in the big games, like he wasn't elite for Barca in La Liga either.
Say he joined a PL club instead, he would instantly have been the best player in the league and probably won his team the league more often than not.
I wonder what the who people criticise Neymar's attitude think of Bale's actions at Madrid? The way I see it Bale is the epitome of a mercenary bum with an awful attitude, but he has more than his share of sympathisers on this forum. I guess that's the benefit of being British with a workmanlike image as opposed to being foreign with a more glamorous image.
As for playing in France, yeah it's not exactly the toughest league around but let's not act like he doesn't always perform for them in the CL, like he doesn't play great in the big games, like he wasn't elite for Barca in La Liga either.
Say he joined a PL club instead, he would instantly have been the best player in the league and probably won his team the league more often than not.
It's not a matter of price, I get why people like Greenwood here, he's a very talented young player, but the assertion that he has more chances to win the ballon d'or is ridiculous. A LOT of things can go wrong in his carreer (and I hope it doesn't). Just take a look at Dembele for exemple. I'm just very tired of the constant disrespect about players from people who obviously don't watch the games because they consider being a PL fan makes them better than that.
Neymar is not a sure thing.
PSG bought him at a good time. Would he have the motivation, fitness and determination to be successful in the PL? Maybe, but he’s far from a sure thing.
Greenwood is probably the most exciting player I’ve seen at Utd in 35+ years, he may turn out to be average, but I’d rather back our own than for someone who would only move to us for the money and would be a massive financial risk.
So with deflated Neynar' and 'his abilities have lowered' you referred solely to his finishing ability? Come on.
Ah, the good ol' 'PL-proven' nonsense in regards to a player like Neymar who shines everywhere he goes, okay.
That's completely your right to back up your own, I'd do the exact same thing, but there is a difference between backing your own and going into the ridiculous when you talk about better ballon d'or chances over a talent like Neymar, especially considering Greenwood had some serious competition around his own age range to begin with. I like Mason, but he has a long, long way to go to even be in the same sentence as Neymar, and I hope he gets there but this is the typical overhyping that we see at the club and more often than not it leads to disappointment. I agree that Greenwood seems destined for greatness, but so did others around the world who didn't quite get there. If he can have a career like Neymar, it'd be a massive success in my eyes.
I always thought he was massively overhyped. Very good player, 'flashy', good PR (even before moving to Europe), but nowhere near Messi & Ronaldo level, ever.
It was so cringe for me to hear him say something like "i am the best in the world because Ronaldo and Messi are not from this planet". He probably even thought that was somehow modest.
I'd take Robben over him any day of the week.
It was so cringe for me to hear him say something like "i am the best in the world because Ronaldo and Messi are not from this planet". He probably even thought that was somehow modest.
I'd take Robben over him any day of the week.
I always thought he was massively overhyped. Very good player, 'flashy', good PR (even before moving to Europe), but nowhere near Messi & Ronaldo level, ever.
It was so cringe for me to hear him say something like "i am the best in the world because Ronaldo and Messi are not from this planet". He probably even thought that was somehow modest.
I'd take Robben over him any day of the week.
That's not really a critique though. Only few in history are.
When Messi was out during a spell in 2015-2016, Neymar was the best player in the world for 1-2 months. Albeit, he didn't sustain that.
Personally think he's better than Ronaldo lately though. At least 2 years.
Not from the entirety of their careers though.
What happens if he leads PSG to become CL champions in the next few days?
Could be his defining moment in taking on the baton from Messi and Ronaldo?
Could be his defining moment in taking on the baton from Messi and Ronaldo?
Well Messi and CR7 are naturally phasing out with age, it's his title to lose at that point if he not only manages it, but sustains it both for club in Europe and country. He has to stay healthy.
Listen, you are mixing comments from different parts of the conversation, now. I said his abilities have lowered since the injury based on the actual performances. Before that World Cup the guy was flying and most people thought he was next Messi. Since that injury and having moved to PSG - what has he achieved? He has not won a single Ballon d'Or, whilst everybody thought he would have by now, he has not won anything except for French trophies, and let's be honest - PSG has been winning Ligue 1 with or without Neymar. Since 2012 they won all but one time. The guy is 28 years old, what has he accomplished that is outstanding, since he left Barca? Put emotions aside and give facts.
Then you asked if I watched the game against Atalanta, as if Neymar did a great job in that game. He didn't. For a player of his status, to miss that many opportunities, to not be able to target the goal almost on 10 different occasions - it's insane. If they played a team stronger than Atalanta, they'd be out.
He's 28 now? He maybe top form for 1-2 years but I think that ship has sailed, if he wins the CL I think he'll throw himself away like Dinho.
That doesn't make sense. My question if you saw the game was obviously in reference to you suggesting his abilities have lowered. The guy just achieved a record dribblings completed in the CL. He was flying in that game, so it's quite ironic that you post this claim at this point in time. You didn't adress his finishing, which would be the only thing making sense after this match.
I also don't understand what him underachieving (which is already debatable) has to do with his abilities. The guy is currently the best dribbler in the world alongside Messi, his trophy cabinet is completely irrelevant for that.
It’s not the PL proven thing.
Far more to do with the overall package. We have had our fingers burnt far too many times with expensive players looking for a payday.
I see your point ‘on paper’ and see why you would want to swap him for Greenwood, but when you actually sit down and think about the financial impact of bringing in someone like Neymar, it’s earth shattering.
How much would his transfer fee and wages be over the next 4 years?
So yes, I’d rather invest in youth, and yes I get far more joy seeing one of our own come through.
It’s the sort of vanity signing Utd and made and have tried to make over the past 5-6 years. We finally are getting our identity back.
If he was the final part of a jigsaw type signing then great, but we are nowhere near that stage, and so he’s totally the wrong player.