Not quite agreeing with you here, but it will be interesting to see the Monday intros & guest lineups of the shows on MSNBC & Fox after today’s relegations.
The Mueller Report
- Thread starter Raoul
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Not quite agreeing with you here, but it will be interesting to see the Monday intros & guest lineups of the shows on MSNBC & Fox after today’s relegations.
The main thing we've learned is that we should take whatever Seth Abramson says and assume the opposite.
I agree with you. But talking about "the 26%" again places the blame on "the people". Yeah, many people don't vote. Many people don't care about politics at all. Many people don't read the news. Many people don't know the name of the president, and they don't care.
It doesn't matter. The rules are the same for both parties. The goal is to get more votes, under these specific rules. That's how it is in a democracy. When Obama won, we did not complain that only 26% of the people voted for him.
The narrative among the Dems, MSNBC, and CNN will be to find out what the actual Mueller report said and not Barr's summary of it. There will be a call for the entire thing to get released. Trump and his stooges will bask in this for a week or so then attempt to discredit the SDNY investigation.
The focus of the discussion will be on the primary focus of the investigation. The one that resulted in all of the prosecutions, most of the manpower and was deemed the greatest threat to the American political system. It's just sad to try and deflect attention away from that to suit your own interests.
The Muller report will undoubtedly be damning about the obstruction of justice case, although it's hardly a surprise he couldn't quite prove corrupt intent. Even though they've already stated much of it was in public, and presumably the majority of it has been in the media already, having it all laid out in a single assessment from a legal expert should cause a lot of American voters to contemplate some major issues.
That doesn't detract from the fact that comments like these, which were echoed by many, were not entirely accurate:
@Red Dreams, what's your take at this stage? Might your attacks on others for not buying into the conspiracy have been slightly misguided?
Yes, we have two reports and we musn’t confuse them.
1. Mueller Report.
2. Barr Report.
1. Mueller Report.
2. Barr Report.
I do wish that you would stop oinin’ @Red Dreams .
all this sdny talk is insane. the system is not setup to prosecute rich people who use connections to flaunt the rules. the country is setup to protect and give ever more power and wealth to those people. if you think we can defeat trump and his fascist allies with lawsuits and congressional hearings, you're feckin lisa simpson.
Don't start getting weird again as if you know me. I was never on the Russia thing. Trump has enough dirt on him from the Iast few decades (which you already know) there's no need to even entertain this Russia thing. Take that shit up with someone else....
The appointment of Barr, though, has been Trump's best strategic move in all this. Paid zero cost for forcing out a recused Sessions and got to install his own cover a month ago.
Every now and then a big fish is caught to fend off the wolves. You don't think it's possible that he doesn't get re-elected in 2020, and is prosecuted for a number of things that Congress were compelled to investigate for political purposes? At a certain point ignoring the evidence becomes more problematic for the justice system than prosecuting a former president, I reckon.
Who's fecking Lisa Simpson? She's 8 years old FFS.
He will never ever spend a single day in jail and neither will anyone in his family.
"Trump just got tentatively cleared of a subset of specific crimes, vindicated!"
"Let me rush to the internet and start celebrating... Take that RedCafe and Twitter"
Riveting stuff...
"Let me rush to the internet and start celebrating... Take that RedCafe and Twitter"
Riveting stuff...
Don't use we. Many of us have been pointing the problem with low voter turnout for years. It matters not if a Democrat like Obama was elected. Voter turnout is a massive problem and indictment on the US political system irrespective of who wins
We're not celebrating, we're mad that the foolish libs gave him a weapon to use in 2020.
Because rich and powerful people don't go to jail?
I'm not sure I understand. Are you saying that you didn't get caught up in the idea that there was collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russians?
You know what? I hear that...
But I'll be honest. If y'all can't see past this and zero in on the real corruption going on in your government and you elect these grifters again... You deserve whatever you get. Sorry.
I don't recall believing or stating (outside of a joke) that trump knowingly colluded with Russia to win the 2016 election. That's what this investigation was for.... And here we are.
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Probably worth posting this from a few days ago:
(Read the thread)
He also predicted and warned about the report being short, contextualising partial quotes and framing specifics which could be falsified within the report rather than drawing a broad conclusion from the entirety of the report.
He said it would likely be damning enough to be believable but not politically damaging.
Manaforts report alone was 800 pages, this was likely magnitudes of that and yet Barr has summarised it in 48 hours, quoted just 65 words, all of which are incomplete sentences and neither are actually specific enough to draw the conclusions he has from them.
We’ve received a 4 page document from Trump’s pick for AG who did the same
hatchet job on the Iran-contra investigation and was chosen for his negative words against the investigation.
Until the report is public and Mueller testifies to Congress, this is nowhere near over.
(Read the thread)
He also predicted and warned about the report being short, contextualising partial quotes and framing specifics which could be falsified within the report rather than drawing a broad conclusion from the entirety of the report.
He said it would likely be damning enough to be believable but not politically damaging.
Manaforts report alone was 800 pages, this was likely magnitudes of that and yet Barr has summarised it in 48 hours, quoted just 65 words, all of which are incomplete sentences and neither are actually specific enough to draw the conclusions he has from them.
We’ve received a 4 page document from Trump’s pick for AG who did the same
hatchet job on the Iran-contra investigation and was chosen for his negative words against the investigation.
Until the report is public and Mueller testifies to Congress, this is nowhere near over.
Presidents dont go to jail. Once you reach a certain level in this countey there are very few things that bring actual consequences. Short of a "dead girl or a live boy", nothing will happen to them.
Something every American really needs to think long and hard about. Corruption flourishes faster than weeds and like weeds there comes a point where you are left with no choice but to tackle it or it will choke you.
I was asking about the Trump campaign, not Trump alone. I don't get understand why you're trying to extract yourself from the speculation you took part in. You were in on the Russia thing. We all make mistakes. Pretending we didn't make them when the evidence is right there is just silly.
("Acted" = hacked)
Don't hold your breath.
Bingo. Looks like people getting caught up in the sideshow again...
Mate. Just say what your saying and stop tiptoeing. I just told you I was never in on it... I've not seen anything to make me say 100% he colluded. I've not seen otherwise either tbf... There's better posters for you to be taking this line of questioning up with, unless your just on the wind up? I'm starting to think I've said something to you that's stuck with ya
Trump is a crook, right or wrong?
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As much as I hate Trump, it really is healthier taking this report on its merits and moving on. This whole thing is ingrained into the public due to leaks and the absurd way that the press and political commentators had chosen to cover it all that this just feels so empty. It's just so fecking flat.
We've been blue balled and it's given his supporters every right to dance on the reports grave.
Is this it? Isn't there anything this orange peel can be brought up on?
We've been blue balled and it's given his supporters every right to dance on the reports grave.
Is this it? Isn't there anything this orange peel can be brought up on?
Bingo. Looks like people getting caught up in the sideshow again...
Mate. Just say what your saying and stop tiptoeing. I just told you I was never really in on it... I've not seen anything to make me say 100% he colluded. I've not seen otherwise either tbf... There's better posters for you to be taking this line of questioning up with, unless your just on the wind up? I'm starting to think I've said something to you that's stuck with ya
Trump is a crook, right or wrong?
I'm not tiptoeing. I'm being specific to give you an opportunity to answer. Did you think the Trump campaign colluded with Russia?
Yes there were lots of other people that said lots more about the Russian collusion aspect of the investigation than you. The only reason I'm asking you about it is because you are the one that distanced yourself from it the moment it came up, while speaking to me directly.
You didn't say anything that stuck with me but you're here talking about how weird it is that people want to discuss the various missteps people took in coming to such dramatically incorrect conclusions, and investing so much time and energy into something that only ever existed in their mind. If you don't want to be challenged on that then you needn't challenge other people on the legitimacy of their views or motives. You did that in this thread and it was a surprisingly common thing among a range of folks in the Muller thread amid all of the speculation.
You only think it's weird because of the atmosphere that was built up around the investigation on here and across the internet. That atmosphere is very dangerous and is not something to be glossed over, in my view. You might hold a different view but any attempt to ridicule it can be picked apart quite easily in light of the evidence. I don't think that's necessary.
Yes he's a crook and I would assume the vast majority of people that voted for him knew that at the time. They just deemed it irrelevant as long as he did stuff in their interests. He's acted more or less like I would imagine most people expected him to. There were extremes on both sides that expected, and speculated continuously about, much more significant things that as yet haven't transpired. Ideally this report will tone down the extremes on both sides and inject a dose of reality back into the commentary.
Also a moment of silence for our brothers and sisters at #Qanon who thought Mueller was going to arrest the Clintons, Obamas, and the rest of the elite liberal Hollywood paedophile ring.
Soooooo...what happens now realistically?
No Collusion!
The evidence put forward for committing obstruction of justice is not something to take lightly. His supporters may want to focus on the other aspects but that part can't be successfully minimised. There's nothing flat about that. To me it's more important than the Russian collusion because it's something that Trump can do over and over again in all kinds of corrupt scenarios, and we have every reason to expect him to. Whereas the collusion could only ever have been that one moment in time.
The saga will continue with the investigation into his dirty money
Following the money. Where the real meat will be found.
Demands/subpoenas for the full report. Barr may try to head that off with an abrdiged/heavily redacted version. Can't see how he and eventually Mueller don't get hauled in by Congress for a public hearing.
Plus there's the ongoing prosecutions and case referrals to other jurisdictions, all of which are likely to have a great deal of criminal liability.
An undeniable PR win for Trump & Co but that's why they put Barr in there in the first place. If the Mueller report is the total exoneration he is claiming, they should slap "Trump 2020" across the top of it and mail copies out to every voter in the country.
Ah man that's a lot of words do I really have to? You're being kinda weird about it I dunno what else to tell ya...
I'll just say this, treat it how you want to. I was never in on it, I'm distancing myself in response to you claiming I was part of it
. Why I don't know....And the funny thing is, for the people that did get caught up in it, so what? It's about what they do (I won't say now because there's clearly a lot of details that haven't come out yet, not that this seems to bother you) later.... You pointing at them and laughing saying you told them so is about as useful as you telling the Trump base they are worshipping a charlatan. What are you hoping to achieve?
No obst... Uhm... Exonerated!
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Question: Who has access to the full Mueller report? Can all the Dems in Congress and their staff read the full thing?
Came in here just for this.
Barr is only required to make a summary available to Congress, so it's very possible the full thing never comes out.