The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[Irish Jet]

Yep. Gonna go off a tangent here a bit...

Been wondering, if Poch is this magical genius who turns shit into gold how come he hasn't managed to coach Sissoko into a world beater? If he will be so great for silky players how come he is yet to do it with Eric feckin Lamela? What happened to the striker (no idea what his name is) he bought that turned out wank and was loaned out/sold? How come Rose looked like a rabbit in headlights v Utd?

Why didn't Klopp crack on with his mental footie using Markovic', Origi, Moreno? Oh he needed better players did he? I mean, since their attacking play is so breathless surely Karius' blunders don't matter since they outscore the oppo, right?

Use same argument to analyze St. Pep.

I'd argue both Sissoko and Lamela have improved under Poch. The latter has had real injury problems, as has Rose who hasn't been the same since.

I do see your point but under Pochettino a lot of players have gone to another level. Tough to know exactly how much it's down to him but it would be naive to play it down.

 

[Grande]

And most people were pretty happy with the first half of the season. Or at least weren't dramatically upset about not being in the title race. It's the 2nd half of the season that was absolutely dreadful to watch. No injury excuses, just we got dramatically worse and worse to watch. We signed Sanchez to replace Martial who was probably in our top 3 for that first half of the season, who had an incredibly shit 5 months after he signed, far worse than if we just stuck with Martial and Rashford to rotate, and in the same signing more or less killed any hope Martial had to be a regular under Mourinho. Then came regular awful performances, mixed in with a couple of random good games like Liverpool at home, but completely changing tactics for the Sevilla games and that being incredibly shite. We were lucky to not lose by a few goals in the first leg, and then outplayed at home and deservedly knocked out. To fecking Sevilla. The style of play got worse and worse, all the shite with Pogba, Sanchez playing every game despite playing like absolute ass, and so on. It was awful and just a sign of things to come with Mourinho, and then a pretty shit performance against a Chelsea side who had completely turned on their manager in the FA Cup final. And that's not after 1.5 successful seasons. The first season we finished 6th! Winning the Europa League saved it from being an absolute failure of a season.

People turned on him long ago, and at this point the only thing people can say for the "Mourinho In" POV is that we finished 2nd (but 19 points off the champions). So fecking what. Arsenal finished 2nd a few years ago and apart from last season, finished above us every single year post Fergie I think. Chelsea won the title 2 seasons ago then finished 5th last year, yet they couldn't wait to get rid of Conte. Spurs finished 2nd once or twice in the recent past, and are always in the top 4. It means nothing. Saying we're happy with Mourinho so far is saying you're happy with playing like absolute shit and being the most boring big side to watch in Europe while still not competing for the big trophies.

Is it allowed to call this drama queen behaviour?

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

I just want United to succeed. With Jose the current manager, I hope he does well and gets the season turned around. To be honest the media's (and many posters on here) recent actions and vitriol towards Jose are making me root for him even more. I know its all to get clicks, but articles comparing him to Trump, using Leeds training tactics etc....are too much.

 

[Grande]

Which has exactly what to do with the current situation

Talking about a-few bad games from the clubs most successful period is pretty weird. This is the here-and-now and right now, things look pretty bleak.

I don’t think you read the post your answering to. A poster claimed that the defense is worse now than last season. His evaluation of how good the defense is now is based on two games. The point is that you can’t evaluate anything but form based on just two games.

I’m not in a Mourinho In or Out camp, but I tire from a tendency I see that any stick is used to beat him with. You may well argue that our defense has shown weaknesses for a long while that haven’t been fully exposed and that haven’t been properly adressed. But you can’t claim that the quality of our defense has degenerated from last season based on a few games.

It might have, we’ll see as the season develops.

 

[Jojo <3 Mou]

I like Mourinho and I believe that he is in a situation that he can change. We are 3 games in, nothing at all is decided.

Results will be the deciding factor in him continuing to be the manager. If he is to remain United manager, for me , he must finish top 4 () and perform well (quaterfinals or semifinals) in the CL and win a cup/s. I would have liked for us to be challenging for Titles this year but if he is able to stabilize this mess and achieve something I'd have him continue as manager.

I think that he has been let down by the board this season but, the buck stops with him. If he isn't able to perform with this team this year then change may be necessary esp as he seems to be at odds with the board.

 

[Random Task]

I like Mourinho and I believe that he is in a situation that he can change. We are 3 games in, nothing at all is decided.

Results will be the deciding factor in him continuing to be the manager. If he is to remain United manager, for me , he must finish top 4 () and perform well (quaterfinals or semifinals) in the CL and win a cup/s. I would have liked for us to be challenging for Titles this year but if he is able to stabilize this mess and achieve something I'd have him continue as manager.

I think that he has been let down by the board this season but, the buck stops with him. If he isn't able to perform with this team this year then change may be necessary esp as he seems to be at odds with the board.

Not necessarily.

The club had a quite frankly awful summer of which 99% can be attributed to Jose's poor management. The Martial, Pogba and Fellaini situations were all handled badly by Jose (very badly if we're honest) and they were made infinitely worse due to being leaked to the press. There is a very clear and present power struggle going on between Jose and Woody, the result of which disrupted out transfer activity to the point where we ended up missing out on essential signings. The diabolical quality of football on display during pre-season, which could have been put down to a lack of fitness had we not witnessed the very same diabolical football against Leicester, Brighton and Spurs (second half). The tiresome press conferences in which Jose insists on displaying his narcissistic personality and/or borderline depressive attitude (either one or the other dependent on his mood at the time.

We would not be discussing whether Jose should be in or out of the job after only 3 games had any of the above events not taken place over the summer, we'd simply put it down to a bad start. Truth is, it's the culmination of events and poor managerial decisions (over the summer and prior to that) that have lead many of us to lose faith in Jose. For me, it happened after the Brighton game when I witnessed the worst performance I have ever seen from a United team. The Spurs drumming shortly after only served to compound that belief. You're not quite there yet but you will, eventually, reach your breaking point - same for the rest of the Jose in brigade.

 

[hn4manunited]

Not necessarily.

The club had a quite frankly awful summer of which 99% can be attributed to Jose's poor management. The Martial, Pogba and Fellaini situations were all handled badly by Jose (very badly if we're honest) and they were made infinitely worse due to being leaked to the press. There is a very clear and present power struggle going on between Jose and Woody, the result of which disrupted out transfer activity to the point where we ended up missing out on essential signings. The diabolical quality of football on display during pre-season, which could have been put down to a lack of fitness had we not witnessed the very same diabolical football against Leicester, Brighton and Spurs (second half). The tiresome press conferences in which Jose insists on displaying his narcissistic personality and/or borderline depressive attitude (either one or the other dependent on his mood at the time.

We would not be discussing whether Jose should be in or out of the job after only 3 games had any of the above events not taken place over the summer, we'd simply put it down to a bad start. Truth is, it's the culmination of events and poor managerial decisions (over the summer and prior to that) that have lead many of us to lose faith in Jose. For me, it happened after the Brighton game when I witnessed the worst performance I have ever seen from a United team. The Spurs drumming shortly after only served to compound that belief. You're not quite there yet but you will, eventually, reach your breaking point - same for the rest of the Jose in brigade.

I think you should consider the fact that Jose has come out and said that he is more of a coach in the current set up. If that is the case, there's not much of blame to put on Jose for the management aspects of any of the above you've mentioned. It's all Ed...

 

[#07]

 

[hn4manunited]

Nice to hear. We often hear how nice of a person Jose is. Very different than what the media portray him to be. Definitely a different persona he puts on when he’s in the press conference.

 

[Marcus]

Knee jerked enough. I am back with Jose in.

 

[el3mel]

And he was called a disgrace for the club in that Nazi meltdown thread.

 

[breakout67]

And he was called a disgrace for the club in that Nazi meltdown thread.

Any fan that makes things personal is not the brightest of the bunch. There is a small group on here that thinks he's a bad person, which is moronic since they know nothing of his personal life.

 

[hn4manunited]

Any fan that makes things personal is not the brightest of the bunch. There is a HUGE group on here that thinks he's a bad person, which is moronic since they know nothing of his personal life.

Fixed it for your

 

[K stand Red]

Everything that is wrong with this squad and the belief of the manager,when he quotes in his press conference yesterday and several times previously “ Achieving second place last year was his greatest achievement in management.”

In my mind that equates to getting this shower of shite to 2nd place was a miracle.

 

[Vinnie Peetang]

Had Mourinho been backed this summer, I can guarantee we'd be sitting on top of the table and the manager would be fielding questions like "Man Utd are back where they belong, how did you solve this?" Books will be written about the new generation of United legendary managers. I do not understand how Ed thinks and still holds his position as CE goddamn O.

 

[Member 5225]

I’d love it if Jose smashes it with us. I’ve been a fan for years.

My hope is IF Jose has difference of opinion with the club re players to bring in / send out (Martial, experienced CB etc), I hope the club (Ed) aren’t just saying ‘yep’ or ‘nope’ - and actually telling him a philosophy to follow (ie try and sign younger players in 22-25 age range for example).

 

[Member 5225]

Had Mourinho been backed this summer, I can guarantee we'd be sitting on top of the table and the manager would be fielding questions like "Man Utd are back where they belong, how did you solve this?" Books will be written about the new generation of United legendary managers. I do not understand how Ed thinks and still holds his position as CE goddamn O.

Not sure I buy into this. 1 or 2 experienced CBs and we would’ve been epically better? Doubt it.

 

[MUFAN79]

 

[Tiber]

The MEN is shilling hard for Jose. Going out of their way to praise even obcsure things he does. kinda odd but they are firmly in the 'more of the same please' camp

 

[SER19]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/45381747

Sorry if posted already. Neville, ex pro and current manager, feels mourinho is doing the opposite of 'throwing players under the bus'

Given how quickly critics say he throws players under with any criticism, its interesting to see a balance of the opinion

 

[SER19]

Monster

 

[FrantikChicken]

Everything that is wrong with this squad and the belief of the manager,when he quotes in his press conference yesterday and several times previously “ Achieving second place last year was his greatest achievement in management.”

In my mind that equates to getting this shower of shite to 2nd place was a miracle.

That's how I took it as well.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Wonder if he would have still been our manager had Guidetti scored that goal putting us out of the Europa. Finishing 6th, no champs league, doubt the Carling cup would have saved him.

 

[Kapardin]

Yeah well, you are just forgetting that the man has won everything with different teams and players so maybe maybe the players that have never won anything, maybe they are the one to be rubbish indeed

Rubbish? What's wrong with this XI:

De Gea - Valencia, Bailly, Smalling, Shaw - Fred, Matic, Pogba - Sanchez/Martial, Lukaku, Lingard.

With Shaw's improved form, you have a decent if not spectacular back 4, a solid midfield and an attack with enough pace and power.

Our only weaknesses are the CBs (Even there, Smalling's somewhat reliable nowadays), RB and RW positions. But Lingard can do a job - give him to an attacking manager willing to coach him and he would probably play like Sterling does for City, even if he's not world class.

This is a Top 3 squad IMO. Almost can match Liverpool in quality. Jose is getting only the bare minimum out of the attack and midfield, which is the reason why we can't cover our defensive errors by outscoring the opposition.

 

[hn4manunited]

Everything that is wrong with this squad and the belief of the manager,when he quotes in his press conference yesterday and several times previously “ Achieving second place last year was his greatest achievement in management.”

In my mind that equates to getting this shower of shite to 2nd place was a miracle.

IMHO, that is exactly the context that is being implied. Not just the qualities of the squad but also the injuries, suspensions, player form, board backing, the qualities of other teams and their forms, city doing a record season, bias media pressure, fans who want him out, etc etc etc...just to list a few.

 

[piratefox]

Everything that is wrong with this squad and the belief of the manager,when he quotes in his press conference yesterday and several times previously “ Achieving second place last year was his greatest achievement in management.”

In my mind that equates to getting this shower of shite to 2nd place was a miracle.

A multiple winner saying those words. Buried the squad saying that.

 

[Mercurial]

I've said it before, Jose has been nothing but honest with the board, fans and media. He warned us this might happen if we didn't invest in the squad.

Off the back of an abysmal performance last week the team played well, and that is down to the manager.

Tactically we were spot on, and that is down to the manager.

Individual errors cost us, that is down to the players.

Jones is injured again, Rojo is chronically injured so we now lack cover in defence, and we didn't invest in a new CB despite Jose's request. That is down to the board.

Jose asked for Maguire or Alderweireld, we went for neither because Woodword wanted Varane. That is down to Ed.

If you can't see where the problem lies I give up all hope.

I agree with your analysis, its pretty spot on, the damage to the squad and structure after SAF retirement and Moyes / LvG reshuffling is pretty deep going and will take time to iron out. I feel a lot of our culture and identity was wiped by Moyes and then Van Gal. I think also Jose need more time to get things right. I don't want another coach change yet again in under 6 years. I have a feeling we will be terribly exposed and found out at the back this season more times. Sometimes player transfers just don't work out I think Lindelöf need to play for a mid table team, we need a skilled and master of "Dark Arts" as our back bone in defense, someone to direct and play at a high level consistently.

 

[Hamadovich86]

Surely hes gone if we lose tomorrow right? Being in the bottom three after four games would be too much for Woodward me thinks.

 

[hn4manunited]

I've said it before, Jose has been nothing but honest with the board, fans and media. He warned us this might happen if we didn't invest in the squad.

Off the back of an abysmal performance last week the team played well, and that is down to the manager.

Tactically we were spot on, and that is down to the manager.

Individual errors cost us, that is down to the players.

Jones is injured again, Rojo is chronically injured so we now lack cover in defence, and we didn't invest in a new CB despite Jose's request. That is down to the board.

Jose asked for Maguire or Alderweireld, we went for neither because Woodword wanted Varane. That is down to Ed.

If you can't see where the problem lies I give up all hope.

I missed this post earlier in the thread. This is absolutely spot on.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

I've said it before, Jose has been nothing but honest with the board, fans and media. He warned us this might happen if we didn't invest in the squad.

Off the back of an abysmal performance last week the team played well, and that is down to the manager.

Tactically we were spot on, and that is down to the manager.

Individual errors cost us, that is down to the players.

Jones is injured again, Rojo is chronically injured so we now lack cover in defence, and we didn't invest in a new CB despite Jose's request. That is down to the board.

Jose asked for Maguire or Alderweireld, we went for neither because Woodword wanted Varane. That is down to Ed.

If you can't see where the problem lies I give up all hope.

So in a nutshell nothing is Jose's fault? I'm sure he'd agree..

 

[BlueHaze]

As critical as I have been of him, I really respect this, very classy move by him.

 

[wolvored]

Wonder if he would have still been our manager had Guidetti scored that goal putting us out of the Europa. Finishing 6th, no champs league, doubt the Carling cup would have saved him.

No way would he be here now if that happened.

 

[ash_86]

Rubbish? What's wrong with this XI:

De Gea - Valencia, Bailly, Smalling, Shaw - Fred, Matic, Pogba - Sanchez/Martial, Lukaku, Lingard.

With Shaw's improved form, you have a decent if not spectacular back 4, a solid midfield and an attack with enough pace and power.

Our only weaknesses are the CBs (Even there, Smalling's somewhat reliable nowadays), RB and RW positions. But Lingard can do a job - give him to an attacking manager willing to coach him and he would probably play like Sterling does for City, even if he's not world class.

This is a Top 3 squad IMO. Almost can match Liverpool in quality. Jose is getting only the bare minimum out of the attack and midfield, which is the reason why we can't cover our defensive errors by outscoring the opposition.

We did finish second last year. If you want attacking football though that backline needs to be better quality as our mid was basically taking the hit for our defense and DDG was god mode last season. Spurs game showed our defenders Quality to a T when they are left open.

 

[Kapardin]

So in a nutshell nothing is Jose's fault? I'm sure he'd agree..

I think there are some who believe that the first half against Spurs was some sort of attacking masterclass...when it was actually our players looking like amateurs who had just been learning how to press.

Yes, defensive errors were due to individual mistakes, but why do we look like we can't score a goal? As for the personnel argument, is a midfield of Matic-Fred-Pogba infinitely worse than Liverpool's or Spurs' midfields? Can't get a tune out of that midfield, seriously?

And with Shaw looking like a good LB, the only weakness we have is RB and CB, and even at CB we have Smalling who's half-decent.

The attack has both pace and power, a front three of Sanchez/Martial-Lukaku-Lingard can work if coached well. Look at how Sterling plays for Pep when coached properly, surely Lingard, who already has some pace and skill, can be coached to fit well in a cohesive system to make up for our RW deficiences. Sanchez and Martial are not too shabby to have at LW either, both are capable of more than what they are doing now.

That said, this is a Jose In thread and I respect people's opinions if they think he isn't at fault. I am neither In or Out at the moment, I think he should be given some time but this shouldn't be allowed to drag if it gets too dire.

 

[Kapardin]

We did finish second last year. If you want attacking football though that backline needs to be better quality as our mid was basically taking the hit for our defense and DDG was god mode last season. Spurs game showed our defenders Quality to a T when they are left open.

We don't need to attack like maniacs, but are you suggesting that a complete lack of cohesion among the forwards and an inability to string 3 passes together, as well as Fred not being coached to utilize his raw skills productively, are all issues due to our backline?

 

[Greck]

We don't need to attack like maniacs, but are you suggesting that a complete lack of cohesion among the forwards and an inability to string 3 passes together, as well as Fred not being coached to utilize his raw skills productively, are all issues due to our backline?

That excuse really irks me

 

[Pogue Mahone]

I think there are some who believe that the first half against Spurs was some sort of attacking masterclass...when it was actually our players looking like amateurs who had just been learning how to press.

Yes, defensive errors were due to individual mistakes, but why do we look like we can't score a goal? As for the personnel argument, is a midfield of Matic-Fred-Pogba infinitely worse than Liverpool's or Spurs' midfields? Can't get a tune out of that midfield, seriously?

And with Shaw looking like a good LB, the only weakness we have is RB and CB, and even at CB we have Smalling who's half-decent.

The attack has both pace and power, a front three of Sanchez/Martial-Lukaku-Lingard can work if coached well. Look at how Sterling plays for Pep when coached properly, surely Lingard, who already has some pace and skill, can be coached to fit well in a cohesive system to make up for our RW deficiences. Sanchez and Martial are not too shabby to have at LW either, both are capable of more than what they are doing now.

That said, this is a Jose In thread and I respect people's opinions if they think he isn't at fault. I am neither In or Out at the moment, I think he should be given some time but this shouldn't be allowed to drag if it gets too dire.

sure you aren’t...

 

[TsuWave]

I've said it before, Jose has been nothing but honest with the board, fans and media. He warned us this might happen if we didn't invest in the squad.

Off the back of an abysmal performance last week the team played well, and that is down to the manager.

Tactically we were spot on, and that is down to the manager.

Individual errors cost us, that is down to the players.

Jones is injured again, Rojo is chronically injured so we now lack cover in defence, and we didn't invest in a new CB despite Jose's request. That is down to the board.

Jose asked for Maguire or Alderweireld, we went for neither because Woodword wanted Varane. That is down to Ed.

If you can't see where the problem lies I give up all hope.

wtf is this post

 

[ash_86]

We don't need to attack like maniacs, but are you suggesting that a complete lack of cohesion among the forwards and an inability to string 3 passes together, as well as Fred not being coached to utilize his raw skills productively, are all issues due to our backline?

We showed all those last game , quick passing, 1-2, chances, what more do you want? The players left their shooting boots home unfortunately. Fred was very very good last game linking defense to attack. He created chances for Lukaku, Pogba, played defense splitting passes to start counters and what not. We haven't been playing at that intensity and when you start to do it you get these half baked performances until it ingrains in our players. Spurs just took their chances and our defenders were incapable of getting the basics right.

 

[C'est Moi Cantona]

I think there are some who believe that the first half against Spurs was some sort of attacking masterclass...when it was actually our players looking like amateurs who had just been learning how to press.

Yes, defensive errors were due to individual mistakes, but why do we look like we can't score a goal? As for the personnel argument, is a midfield of Matic-Fred-Pogba infinitely worse than Liverpool's or Spurs' midfields? Can't get a tune out of that midfield, seriously?

And with Shaw looking like a good LB, the only weakness we have is RB and CB, and even at CB we have Smalling who's half-decent.

The attack has both pace and power, a front three of Sanchez/Martial-Lukaku-Lingard can work if coached well. Look at how Sterling plays for Pep when coached properly, surely Lingard, who already has some pace and skill, can be coached to fit well in a cohesive system to make up for our RW deficiences. Sanchez and Martial are not too shabby to have at LW either, both are cpaable of more than what they are doing now.

The Spurs performance was naive from a manager that is just not comfortable playing the game this way, and I struggle to see why so many got so giddy about it, imo Jose would be far better reverting to type now and just getting results playing his way, which I expect tomorrow, and fair enough if he does.

He is not the only problem, and deserves some credit for sure, but he is just never going to work.