The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked

[endless_wheelies]

It felt like we were so close this summer. 2nd place, 81 points, just one more summer of investment could have seen:
De Gea
Sidibe - Bailly - Alderweireld - Sandro(/Shaw?)
Fred - Matic - Pogba
Someone - Lukaku - Sanchez

You don't need to be the proven world class manager that Jose is to do big things with that 11.

What a time to pull the plug.

 

[ZenMaster Coltrane]

Anyone backing him needs to ask themselves what they are expecting in terms of results this year. Short of finishing 2nd we would effectively have gone backwards this year at which point Jose would probably be let go anyway.

Anyone backing him needs to ask how on earth they expect this squad, playing this style wins/finals the league or CL in the next 4 years under this manager. I'm not really interested in supporters who care about finishing 2nd just to rub it in the faces of Liverpool fans. Really? It was 2nd in points, 4th or 5th in terms of quality of football. It's not leading anywhere. No ones remembering anything from last season except JM who will remind us all what a terrific accomplishment it was.

 

[Bastian]

Anyone backing him needs to ask themselves what they are expecting in terms of results this year. Short of finishing 2nd we would effectively have gone backwards this year at which point Jose would probably be let go anyway.

I'm aware of your position on Jose but I just completely disagree. Did you see a team that didn't perform for their manager tonight? I didn't. I saw a team that responded really well and were unlucky. The "gone backwards" thing...if we would end up 3rd this season I would say the difference is we haven't strengthened like we've needed to. If we'd finish 4th or lower, sure. We are three games into the season. I also think a manager needs to be f backed especially when there is no other expertise available at the club's highest level.

 

[Bojan11]

I'm aware of your position on Jose but I just completely disagree. Did you see a team that didn't perform for their manager tonight? I didn't. I saw a team that responded really well and were unlucky. And gone backwards, if we would end up 3rd this season I would say the difference is we haven't strengthened like we've needed to. If we'd finish 4th or lower, sure. We are three games into the season. I also think a manager needs to be f backed especially when there is no other expertise available at the club's highest level.

I saw a team that couldn’t defend nor attack.

That’s down to the manager. Our best chance came from a Spurs mistake. For all this good football you keep mentioning, we created feck all. Just people seem to get giddy when players press a bit higher. That’s how bad our standards have fallen.

 

[bond19821982]

Would be happy with a top 4 this season or he can go.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

How many managers are we going to sack before we realise there’s more wrong here than just one man?

 

[Harry190]

I find it hard to rail against him when the board/Ed undermined his position all summer. The senior leadership at the club is a total shambles. Sacking Jose would just make it worse as we'd lose any semblance of coherency in the backroom.

Well that's too bad because we're not exactly coherent where it matters: the pitch. A madness is creeping in. Woodward does not set the team up and tell them how to play against Brighton. Woodward isn't the one who is with them 2-3 hours everyday, monitoring the training. Woodward isn't the talking to players to motivate them.

 

[Raoul]

I'm aware of your position on Jose but I just completely disagree. Did you see a team that didn't perform for their manager tonight? I didn't. I saw a team that responded really well and were unlucky. The "gone backwards" thing...if we would end up 3rd this season I would say the difference is we haven't strengthened like we've needed to. If we'd finish 4th or lower, sure. We are three games into the season. I also think a manager needs to be f backed especially when there is no other expertise available at the club's highest level.

The ethos and motivation of coaching a team to perform up to standard begins with the manager instilling a squad solidarity and confidence in them. Jose has done it on and off but has failed to do it with any degree of consistency. So when we don't perform well the accountability ultimately rests with him. Consider the noticeable disparity between Jose and Pep's teams over the past 12 months. We are going in opposite directions. What's there to be "Mourinho In" about when we are going either sideways or backwards.

 

[Bastian]

I saw a team that couldn’t defend nor attack.

That’s down to the manager. Our best chance came from a Spurs mistake. For all this good football you keep mentioning, we created feck all. Just people seem to get giddy when players press a bit higher. That’s how bad our standards have fallen.

I saw a team that was relentless in the first half and didn't afford Spurs any time on the ball. Then I saw that same team fade a bit which I expected with players lacking fitness and game time, tired legs. The defense is ropy and it's looked that way for ages. I can't remember a game where we haven't made reckless mistakes at the back. It hasn't cost every game because of our goalkeeper. And yes, I agree that we're not clinical enough but tonight we created chances, we opened them up plenty of times but we still lack quality.

 

[TsuWave]

No manager should be sacked after three games

this is Mourinho's 3rd season here though

"b-b-but we finished in 2nd last year", yeah but stumbled our way there with De Gea saving our results time and time again. 3rd year going and the team has no basic competence, let alone an identity or playstyle. Its not acceptable.

 

[Robbyb03]

Someone needs to have a heart to heart with Jose and tell him we need to try a more attacking philosophy and formation. If the fans can see a change, for the better, we can all get behind the team and get rid of all this negative press, hostilities, etc.

I don’t think Zidane is going to come or is even the answer. It would be very difficult to get a quality manager now that the season has begun. Conte, Wenger, Bosh, Stuger, Allardyce, Moyes, Bilic, Lambert, Pardew, etc. aren’t the answer at all compared to what we currently have in Mourinho.

 

[Bojan11]

I saw a team that was relentless in the first half and didn't afford Spurs any time on the ball. Then I saw that same team fade a bit which I expected with players lacking fitness and game time, tired legs. The defense is ropy and it's looked that way for ages. I can't remember a game where we haven't made reckless mistakes at the back. It hasn't cost every game because of our goalkeeper. And yes, I agree that we're not clinical enough but tonight we created chances, we opened them up plenty of times but we still lack quality.

When did we open them up several times? They passed to us for Lukaku chance. Aside from that nothing happened. Maybe you can refresh my memory. Lloris didn’t do anything. Not like he was making save after save.

 

[Bastian]

The ethos and motivation of coaching a team to perform up to standard begins with the manager instilling a squad solidarity and confidence in them. Jose has done it on and off but has failed to do it with any degree of consistency. So when we don't perform well the accountability ultimately rests with him. Consider the noticeable disparity between Jose and Pep's teams over the past 12 months. We are going in opposite directions. What there to be "Mourinho In" about when we are going either sideways or backwards.

Sideways or backwards? Are you having a laugh? Do you remember where we were when he was appointed? I'm just asking about results, trophies and where we've finished in the league, I don't count success as how you play FTR. I don't really see a point to comparing him to Pep at the moment. I think I'd just repeat what I've said in the OP.

 

[Bastian]

When did we open them up several times? They passed to us for Lukaku chance. Aside from that nothing happened. Maybe you can refresh my memory. Lloris didn’t do anything. Not like he was making save after save.

Dragging them out wide, making runs, pressing them high and winning the ball in their half, Shaw cutting past them like a man against school boys. I don't know, maybe just watch that first half again.

 

[Bojan11]

Sideways or backwards? Are you having a laugh? Do you remember where we were when he was appointed? I'm just asking about results, trophies and where we've finished in the league, I don't count success as how you play FTR. I don't really see a point to comparing him to Pep at the moment. I think I'd just repeat what I've said in the OP.

We finished 5th and were much closer to City and above Liverpool at the time.

Since he has taken over Liverpool have gone a level above us and City two levels above us. So I think you are having the laugh. He hasn’t improved us to a degree that Klopp and Pep have to their clubs.

 

[Raoul]

Sideways or backwards? Are you having a laugh? Do you remember where we were when he was appointed? I'm just asking about results, trophies and where we've finished in the league, I don't count success as how you play FTR. I don't really see a point to comparing him to Pep at the moment. I think I'd just repeat what I've said in the OP.

We've managed 54 and 68 goals in two years under Jose. Do you think that is anywhere near good enough given the amount of investments we've made ?

 

[Bojan11]

Dragging them out wide, making runs, pressing them high and winning the ball in their half, Shaw cutting past them like a man against school boys. I don't know, maybe just watch that first half again.

Yes, so where are these chances we created? Is dragging them out wide the new replacement for we won a corner?

 

[Bastian]

We've managed 54 and 68 goals in two years under Jose. Do you think that is anywhere near good enough given the amount of investments we've made ?

I didn't know we were judging him on goals scored. I missed that meeting. To be honest, I've often not liked the style we've deployed. But what I care about more than anything else is winning. I think that's what he brings. I am not going to judge him on this season alone, that is ridiculous.

 

[Velvet Revolver]

If players cannot perform at optimum levels, are afraid to make mistakes and lacking confidence then the manager takes a lot of the blame. Sorry, but JM hardly played the same CB pairing 2 games in a row last year, talked down his players in the preseason...that's not a recipe for virtuoso match-winning performances anywhere in world football.

The approach needs to be one of trying to be proactive and scoring multiple goals, putting teams under siege...not struggling to score one and hoping an unsettled back 4 can hold that lead for you.

We should have been 3-0 up in the first staff. Players missing chances is not on the manager. If they are doing it on purpose to get rid of the manager then they should not play for united!

 

[Sayros]

I think Mourinho needs to be out because it's alarming that three years have gone by and the team still looks fairly clueless. Now, I'm no body language expert like many of us on here, but I can see the argument also that the players are tuning him out and the inmates seem to run the asylum. I don't know if it's correct, but I can see why it's being said and if that's the case, then he HAS to go.

 

[Green_Red]

Anyone backing him needs to ask themselves what they are expecting in terms of results this year. Short of finishing 2nd we would effectively have gone backwards this year at which point Jose would probably be let go anyway.

I didn't want him here in the first place, however I feel a little sympathy for the man.

He was hired on the back of LvG being sacked straight after winning the F.A. cup, and after courting the club. So you would expect a certain amount of backing right?

I know he spent x amount on transfers and blah blah blah, but when you bring a player to United, signing them is no guarantee that they will be successful. Just look at some of Fergies signings (Alan Smith, Djemba Djemba, Bebe, Obertan, Chadwick, Bosnich, Forlan, Rossi, Eagles, Macheda, list is endless)... The point I am making is Fergie brought them in and when he realised they were no good, they were out. The board / chairman didn't veto his decision. That isn't happening for Mourinho. Another point is that when he doesn't rate a player and says they should be sold, they should be sold... Look at the players Fergie chopped, Keane, RvN, Beckham, Stam... When he said their time was up it was up... Mourinho is being second guessed by the board.

The biggest issue with that is the message it sends to the players and staff... here's a manager who is a serial winner but the board have decided they're going to make the decisions around the club... exactly what happened when he was at Chelsea, Inter, and Real... Exactly what we thought wouldn't happen here. Exactly the kind of atmosphere that leads to his meltdowns... and personally I don't lay all the blame at his feet.

Smalling / Jones / Rojo are not good enough, we should have signed a CB, today his assessment of the CB situation has been vindicated, so who really is to blame?

He pointed out the deficiencies in attack, we NEED a RW, but... we didnt sign one. Why not?

Personally I am sick of the clubs hierarchy. The Glazers are taking money out the club, which is really out of our pockets... I spend a fair bit of money supporting this club every year, a lot less than some people, and these vultures are destroying our club, not Mourinho.

The best we can hope is that the club stops being financially successful to the point that they float it publically again and we can buy it back... It's the only way out of this mess. Since Daddy Glazer died the sons have been vultures. They need to go!

 

[Parry Gallister]

I'm Mou in, but more from principle than being in love with the man.

Yes he's not done everything to settle in and while I think the mono-mania in style that Pep and Klopp have is naive, we don't have a clear vision, let alone a clear best 11/default shape etc. We have played tumescent stuff for large parts (not all though) of his time here too and he hasn't got the best of all our players, attacking especially we don't seem to focus on coaching movements but rely on our players to make it up on the hoof, despite how slow our build-up often is. He deserves some blame.

That said, he doesn't warrant all the stick he's gotten, 2nd to a dominant and well-backed (financially) city side last year is no disgrace, neither is the Europa League and League cup in the first season.

Our recruitment has been shocking, both in terms of weak spots in the squad and the consistency of who we've brought in and he clearly didn't get who he identified as key this summer, even though it was clear we are behind City and others were strengthening too. It's unclear with a lot of our signings during his period who's target they were too, we know the club's been operating independently of the manager (Pogba, Herrera etc.), and possibly are blocking sales he wants to make too.

Our owners/CEO seem to be alright with this, financially it doesn't seem to make an impact, there's no other explanation for them being happy with this. They've publicly undermined him and not shown the necessary support/strength to stop the negativity around the joint from becoming a perpetuating problem either. They're basically doing an Arsenal and I think that's having a bigger impact. And a bit of perspective is needed, we've lost two games and played like shit for 3 halves of football, we're still in August ffs.

 

[Bastian]

Yes, so where are these chances we created? Is dragging them out wide the new replacement for we won a corner?

We can do this all night you know. Maybe just look at the stats:
Possession
United 57% Spurs 43%
Shots
United 23 Spurs 9
On target
United 5 Spurs 5 (the clinical aspect)
Corners
United 5 Spurs 2

 

[Bojan11]

I didn't want him here in the first place, however I feel a little sympathy for the man.

He was hired on the back of LvG being sacked straight after winning the F.A. cup, and after courting the club. So you would expect a certain amount of backing right?

I know he spent x amount on transfers and blah blah blah, but when you bring a player to United, signing them is no guarantee that they will be successful. Just look at some of Fergies signings (Alan Smith, Djemba Djemba, Bebe, Obertan, Chadwick, Bosnich, Forlan, Rossi, Eagles, Macheda, list is endless)... The point I am making is Fergie brought them in and when he realised they were no good, they were out. The board / chairman didn't veto his decision. That isn't happening for Mourinho. Another point is that when he doesn't rate a player and says they should be sold, they should be sold... Look at the players Fergie chopped, Keane, RvN, Beckham, Stam... When he said they're time was up it was up... Mourinho is being second guessed by the board.

The biggest issue with that is the message it sends to the players and staff... here's a manager who is a serial winner but the board have decided they're going to make the decisions around the club... exactly what happened when he was at Chelsea, Inter, and Real... Exactly what we thought wouldn't happen here. Exactly the kind of atmosphere that leads to his meltdowns... and personally I don't lay all the blame at his feet.

Smalling / Jones / Rojo are not good enough, we should have signed a CB, today his assessment of the CB situation has been vindicated, so who really is to blame?

He pointed out the deficiencies in attack, we NEED a RW, but... we didnt sign one. Why not?

Personally I am sick of the clubs hierarchy. The Glazers are taking money out the club, which is really out of our pockets... I spend a fair bit of money supporting this club every year, a lot less than some people, and these vultures are destroying our club, not Mourinho.

He signed Lindelof and Bailly. Could have signed Maguire last year ahead of Lindelof.

His solution to the right winger problem was buy another left winger at a time when Martial was playing well. Sanchez hasn’t worked out and since he’s joined its resulted in Martial being shite too.

 

[Green_Red]

He signed Lindelof and Bailly. Could have signed Maguire last year ahead of Lindelof.

His solution to the right winger problem was buy another left winger at a time when Martial was playing well. Sanchez hasn’t worked out and since he’s joined its resulted in Martial being shite too.

We bought Lindlelof for the future, and Leicester weren't selling Maguire last year. Look at the fiasco around Mahrez trying to get out.

Sanchez was bought to stop City from getting him. Don't you remember the last minute hijacking of that bid?

 

[Bojan11]

We can do this all night you know. Maybe just look at the stats:
Possession
United 57% Spurs 43%
Shots
United 23 Spurs 9
On target
United 5 Spurs 5 (the clinical aspect)
Corners
United 5 Spurs 2

Do what all night?

You getting giddy because we pressed for 30 mins. How many saves did the Spurs goalkeeper make? You forgot we could have had a penalty conceded and every long ball in the box we struggled to deal with.

And Spurs in the second half after going 2-0 ahead decided to sit back, so of course we’d have more shooting chances. But we never looked threatening once. Besides the Alderweireld challenge on Lingard, I don’t recall Spurs scrambling in defence. They were in complete control.

You call that a good performance just shows how bad our standards have dropped by some of our fans. If Moyes had served that shit, I’m sure you’d be calling for his head.

 

[Bojan11]

We bought Lindlelof for the future, and Leicester weren't selling Maguire last year. Look at the fiasco around Mahrez trying to get out.

Sanchez was bought to stop City from getting him. Don't you remember the last minute hijacking of that bid?

What? Maguire was at Hull last year and was up for sale for a pittance.

 

[Raoul]

I didn't know we were judging him on goals scored. I missed that meeting. To be honest, I've often not liked the style we've deployed. But what I care about more than anything else is winning. I think that's what he brings. I am not going to judge him on this season alone, that is ridiculous.

No one here was a bigger Jose proponent than I was. I wanted us to sign him as a Fergie replacement well before Fergie actually retired.

Yes please. He's the only option.

He just has not demonstrated the sort of quality here that he did at his previous clubs - and this after having spent a hell of a lot of money on some fairly mediocre players. So after two years of unentertaining football and poor results (consider where City and United have gone since Pep and Jose arrived) its time for him to deliver results or move on, and if the first three games this year are anything to go by..we are more likely to implode ala Chelsea 3 years ago than we are to catch City,

 

[phunky]

If Lukaku scored that, we would looking at a different result and a more upbeat mood.

I'm in. Mourinho deserves more patience than what LvG or Moyes ever deserved..

 

[Bastian]

Do what all night?

You getting giddy because we pressed for 30 mins. How many saves did the Spurs goalkeeper make? You forgot we could have had a penalty conceded and every long ball in the box we struggled to deal with.

And Spurs in the second half after going 2-0 ahead decided to sit back, so of course we’d have more shooting chances. But we never looked threatening once. Besides the Alderweireld challenge on Lingard, I don’t recall Spurs scrambling in defence. They were in complete control.

You call that a good performance just shows how bad our standards have dropped by some of our fans. If Moyes had served that shit, I’m sure you’d be calling for his head.

If that performance had been under the leadership of the lovechild of Allardyce and Pulis I would have been impressed by it, given the context. Whilst I'd also see that our defenders are terrible. Truly terrible. Which is something I think Jose identified. Yes, tell me that he bought Bailly and Lindelof. Like I said in the OP, I think he identified that he needed someone stable there and he wasn't backed. I think Bailly needs an experienced player next to him and I think Lindelof is a dud who the manager can't afford to replace, apparently.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Anyone backing him needs to ask themselves what they are expecting in terms of results this year. Short of finishing 2nd we would effectively have gone backwards this year at which point Jose would probably be let go anyway.

Are you backing him?

 

[Bastian]

No one here was a bigger Jose proponent than I was. I wanted us to sign him as a Fergie replacement well before Fergie actually retired.

I was always hoping for Pep, tbh. But I think Jose was the right appointment at the time and I think he is still the right manager now.

 

[Raoul]

Are you backing him?

Now that the post match emotion has subsided a bit, I am willing to back him but I'm not willing to take another defeat after already having dropped 6 out 9 points to start the year. If we don't turn it around immediately and go on a run then the pressure will stay on him, and if we by chance drop more points in the next game then I wouldn't be surprised for the club to take action at some point since its very difficult to turn things around when the momentum is in the opposite direction.

 

[Luke1995]

I don't think he has entered Wenger levels of decline but he is at Ancelotti level, where he is still good enough to just remain above water but you never know when things will go downhill.

I say wait until January and if we are out of the top four sack him. At least get us in the Champions League.

 

[Red1968]

Like many long time fans, I feel very conflicted about Jose. I've always liked him. Admired his work at Chelsea and elsewhere. I really wanted him here to replace SAF instead of Moyes. When we finally got him I thought he would work his magic yet again quickly. It really hasn't worked out like it did for him anywhere else. Will it work out? Who knows. I believe he can get it done but at the same time I think back to how it ended at Chelsea and how that team basically decided to get him sacked. It happened there and it looks somewhat like some of the players here are doing the same. I just don't know what to think now and cannot trust my instincts. He looks done right now. I hope I'm wrong!

 

[JK-27]

I've said it before, Jose has been nothing but honest with the board, fans and media. He warned us this might happen if we didn't invest in the squad.

Off the back of an abysmal performance last week the team played well, and that is down to the manager.

Tactically we were spot on, and that is down to the manager.

Individual errors cost us, that is down to the players.

Jones is injured again, Rojo is chronically injured so we now lack cover in defence, and we didn't invest in a new CB despite Jose's request. That is down to the board.

Jose asked for Maguire or Alderweireld, we went for neither because Woodword wanted Varane. That is down to Ed.

If you can't see where the problem lies I give up all hope.

 

[Bastian]

I've said it before, Jose has been nothing but honest with the board, fans and media. He warned us this might happen if we didn't invest in the squad.

Off the back of an abysmal performance last week the team played well, and that is down to the manager.

Tactically we were spot on, and that is down to the manager.

Individual errors cost us, that is down to the players.

Jones is injured again, Rojo is chronically injured so we now lack cover in defence, and we didn't invest in a new CB despite Jose's request. That is down to the board.

Jose asked for Maguire or Alderweireld, we went for neither because Woodword wanted Varane. That is down to Ed.

If you can't see where the problem lies I give up all hope.

Absolutely.

 

[Carolina Red]

I see a Mourinho out thread on here and I want to create a little home for the minority on the Caf with an opposite thread.

As someone who has been on the coaching side of a poor team before, I have to say it makes me feel good to see this thread.

I am naturally very slow to blame a coach because I know that sometimes no matter how you’ve coached players, they go out, the lights come on, and they play like they’ve never seen a field before.

I’m with you.

 

[Fridge chutney]

Now that the post match emotion has subsided a bit, I am willing to back him but I'm not willing to take another defeat after already having dropped 6 out 9 points to start the year. If we don't turn it around immediately and go on a run then the pressure will stay on him, and if we by chance drop more points in the next game then I wouldn't be surprised for the club to take action at some point since its very difficult to turn things around when the momentum is in the opposite direction.

I'm of a similar mind. I have been very supportive. I think the media and pundits treat him hypocritically and disgracefully, but he doesn't make it easy at times.

It's hard to accept going backwards in year 3. But it's not necessarily a good idea nor becoming of a club like United to sack a manager so soon into a season. I believe in patience but I'd be lying if I said that doubt hadn't started to creep in slightly.

 

[fishfingers15]

2-0 down with one sub left against Spurs at home and he brings on Fellaini with Rashford on the bench, and Mata and Martial at home. I'm sorry, but that's just not good enough. I think we played much better than at Brighton and with Lukaku taking chances, it would have gone differently, but nothing just hinges on one result or one bad substitution. But the guy has taken us enough.