Ok, cheers for clarification, apologies for biting. Completely agree with your second paragraph here.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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Jose has lost a lot of the dressing room, I read a John Terry thing yesterday in which he said Jose purposely humiliated and belittled him to get a reaction out of him and make him know that even as captain Jose would happily sell Terry if he didn’t run through walls for Jose and how Jose wanted things.
Thing is that style was 15 years ago and Jose hasn’t evolved his mentality, tactics, approach, ideas and clearly isn’t willing to do so which is what’s created this Pogba vs Jose battle but it’s not just Pogba vs Jose.
Jose has singled out Bailly, Shaw, Martial and Rashford all over the past year for poor or inconsistent performances despite their age yet plays Sanchez, Valencia, Lukaku and Fellaini regardless of performance and form because they’re his personal favourites so the ones he’s singled out can’t progress or get any kind of momentum as they’re lucky to get a run of games.
Jose isn’t going to adapt or change a thing and it’s his way or no way which isn’t going to work, I don’t think players should ever be more powerful than the manager but the manager has to adapt and evolve and listen to ideas when it’s clear his way doesn’t work. Sir Alex did it with Carlos Quieroz and evolved and listened which is why we stayed successful so as Jose won’t its time he went as we’re only going backwards with him.
Thing is that style was 15 years ago and Jose hasn’t evolved his mentality, tactics, approach, ideas and clearly isn’t willing to do so which is what’s created this Pogba vs Jose battle but it’s not just Pogba vs Jose.
Jose has singled out Bailly, Shaw, Martial and Rashford all over the past year for poor or inconsistent performances despite their age yet plays Sanchez, Valencia, Lukaku and Fellaini regardless of performance and form because they’re his personal favourites so the ones he’s singled out can’t progress or get any kind of momentum as they’re lucky to get a run of games.
Jose isn’t going to adapt or change a thing and it’s his way or no way which isn’t going to work, I don’t think players should ever be more powerful than the manager but the manager has to adapt and evolve and listen to ideas when it’s clear his way doesn’t work. Sir Alex did it with Carlos Quieroz and evolved and listened which is why we stayed successful so as Jose won’t its time he went as we’re only going backwards with him.
Don't forget Matic who has generally been poor since the first half of last season.
Yeah he made it up. Here's the proof: https://www.redcafe.net/threads/your-preference-for-the-next-manager.370323/
I fecking hate when people blatantly make shit up for no reason whatsoever and try to push it as fact.
Ha ha, delude yourself that Pogba is just putting himself in the firing line for the good of all the other poor put-upon players - absolutely nothing at all to do with the fact that he's looking for a transfer, no siree...
And you keep saying stuff like the bit in bold, but it's just not true. Apart from what he said during the World Cup (which was actually pretty much bang on) Mourinho - in public at least - has been hugely supportive of Pogba. I even gave you an example from April this year when Mourinho publicly defended Pogba when Scholesy said that he had been disrespectful.
Good grief, it's hard to take you seriously when you're writing stuff like the bolded bit. Pogba is the best friend of everyone?! He's Matic's best friend is he? Or Valencia? David De Gea? But anyway - how the heck would you know?!
Finishing outside the top four this season would definitely be a sackable offense. Mourinho himself would have a hard time arguing otherwise.
Firstly I am the last person who should be on this thread as I am definitely Jose Out and have been that way since the Liverpool away game last year, before that I was very much Pro Mourinho. We have all seen and read the arguments why he should be backed or why he should be sacked, I won't go into those details anymore.
I was just wondering if anyone has realized what it will/could cost UTD by keeping him here, what I mean by this is, what could be left of our team by next year. Firstly we all hear about this contract DDG is going to sign but somehow just seems not to be happening. We all know Pogba wants out if Jose stays, our fresh and new revelation this season, Luke Shaw, walks for free this summer. What was his excuse for not signing a new contract "I must first improve to make myself worthy of a new contract", yeah right. We all know Martial is biding his time, his manager came out and said so himself. Valencia is finished now and will only become a liability from now on and Young is getting any younger, who knows what Matic might be like next year. Pereira said before the season started, he wanted to get game time at UTD otherwise he would prefer a move away instead of a loan. Both Rojo and Darmian looked like they were leaving this past summer, both wanting out. Rashford who is truly loyal to the club, a moment may come when he is offered a chance to play week in week out, can't think he wants to be the eternal sub and he too must think of his future. As we know there are a lot of players whose contracts have just been extended by one year, we could end up with half a team left by the summer.
Getting back to the transfer market this past summer, never before have players come out during a transfer market and openly turned down coming to play for UTD, so we can all blame Ed for not getting the business done but how many of our targets had no interest in coming to play for Mourinho and after another trophiless season and the football we are playing, who do you think we will be able to realistically get in to improve our team. If we take a look at all the Jose's signings we have done so far, not one is playing to his potential or to the standards they were playing at their previous clubs.
At the moment Jose reminds me of a world champion boxer who won all these prizes/titles and then got to the stage that he decided he was retiring. Once out of the sport for a while, still missing the excitement, the limelight decides to make a comeback. Well we all know how most of these stories end, they somehow just never reach those levels they had before they retired and in UTD situation we got that fighter who decided to come out of retirement. Jose hasn't come close to the heights he reached with his previous clubs. At this moment in time I wouldn't mind having the Jose we had in his first year here with Zlatan.
I was just wondering if anyone has realized what it will/could cost UTD by keeping him here, what I mean by this is, what could be left of our team by next year. Firstly we all hear about this contract DDG is going to sign but somehow just seems not to be happening. We all know Pogba wants out if Jose stays, our fresh and new revelation this season, Luke Shaw, walks for free this summer. What was his excuse for not signing a new contract "I must first improve to make myself worthy of a new contract", yeah right. We all know Martial is biding his time, his manager came out and said so himself. Valencia is finished now and will only become a liability from now on and Young is getting any younger, who knows what Matic might be like next year. Pereira said before the season started, he wanted to get game time at UTD otherwise he would prefer a move away instead of a loan. Both Rojo and Darmian looked like they were leaving this past summer, both wanting out. Rashford who is truly loyal to the club, a moment may come when he is offered a chance to play week in week out, can't think he wants to be the eternal sub and he too must think of his future. As we know there are a lot of players whose contracts have just been extended by one year, we could end up with half a team left by the summer.
Getting back to the transfer market this past summer, never before have players come out during a transfer market and openly turned down coming to play for UTD, so we can all blame Ed for not getting the business done but how many of our targets had no interest in coming to play for Mourinho and after another trophiless season and the football we are playing, who do you think we will be able to realistically get in to improve our team. If we take a look at all the Jose's signings we have done so far, not one is playing to his potential or to the standards they were playing at their previous clubs.
At the moment Jose reminds me of a world champion boxer who won all these prizes/titles and then got to the stage that he decided he was retiring. Once out of the sport for a while, still missing the excitement, the limelight decides to make a comeback. Well we all know how most of these stories end, they somehow just never reach those levels they had before they retired and in UTD situation we got that fighter who decided to come out of retirement. Jose hasn't come close to the heights he reached with his previous clubs. At this moment in time I wouldn't mind having the Jose we had in his first year here with Zlatan.
Looks like Jose is going to need a mass clear out to continue his tenure at the club. The media have him falling out with half the squad just about.
Maybe it's what's needed? Otherwise Jose will go and the issues we've had for numerous seasons will remain. Really split on how he's managing the team and how the players are performing. He's not getting the best out of them and they're not putting in the required effort even when things aren't going their way.
Maybe it's what's needed? Otherwise Jose will go and the issues we've had for numerous seasons will remain. Really split on how he's managing the team and how the players are performing. He's not getting the best out of them and they're not putting in the required effort even when things aren't going their way.
Why? Just another proof that the guy is a grade A prick. Public execution of a player in the media, after Shaw just had a good game, coming back after being sidelined for a long time.
Can't remember the last time I went out of my way to listen to any of his interviews or press conferences. Not really interested in what he has to say.
Sorry, I didn't have time to answer you yesterday. There were people wanting him out then, but they were few. Yeah, opinions change over time, but you haven't really adressed my main point. The number of people who are Mourinho out now compared to the end of last season is much much bigger. Do you think so much has changed on the pitch since than, that warrants this?
This is not only based on the football, it is based on what Mourinho has been saying through the summer until now and his conflict with Pogba. You can't think rationally when you are so emotionally charged, because of your hatred towards someone as a person. Although, it is obviously those who wanted him out before the summer who have only been waiting for him to say something negative or get in a conflict with players, who are hysterical now.
The guy who started the Nazi thread is a great example of what happens when you let emotions get in the way of objectivity. That's an extreme case though, but the same thing is happening now around the forum, only to a lesser extent. This is evidenced partly by the fact that some people are absolving Pogba of any blame in this conflict with Mourinho.
Having said this, It's pretty normal to react like that, you can't expect every fan to be sensible, which is why fans don't get to make the decision of when a manager needs to go.
You're claiming I blindly support him even though I told you that my opinions on him will not be the same in 2-3 months time if we don't improve. Actually, I'm not that far of being in the out camp myself. I'm just a tad more patient than some of you. So we could be agreeing in a while, despite how difficult that might be to believe.
If you expected him to beat City's tally of 101 points when he took over a far inferior squad to City's, then spent less than City, how do you expect a worse squad plus worse investment to perform better than the team with a better squad and better investment?
Incredible what some fans expect instantly. Spoilt. Get real, when we spend the most in the PL for about 5 years running (a la City), we'll be expected to be the best team in the league.
Within 2 years:
- He's improved every area of our team. Like it or not, he has. We have a better attack (Zlatan followed by Lukaku, two strikers who hit neary 30 per season are worlds better than Rooney), a better midfield (Fred, Pogba, Matic are worlds better than Schneiderlain, Schweinsteiger and Herrera), our defence whilst going through a bad patch, was incredibly strong last season (DDG got a record number of clean sheets).
- He's improved our league status, 2nd place last season ahead of everyone apart from record breaking City
- He's won 3 trophies in 2 years
Wenger also year on year made the squad worse, the league finishes worse, and refused to invest heavily in the squad until it's too late.
Mourinho has taken us from 5th to 2nd, and dramatically improved our squad. Comparing the two is a joke.
If Mourinho took over Bayern Munich he would have won many more titles, if he took over Celtic he would have won many more. Your argument is flawed. He took over a very broken United knowing the size of the job. He could have easily took a job like PSG or the like and racked up more titles.
It's getting embarrassing mate. I see a section of spoilt brats demanding we win everything immediately, and a HUUUUUGE divide followed by realistic fans who can see the situation for what it is.
Yeah problem is he might want to take over Bayern, PSG but don't think those clubs would be interested in hiring him.
I think it does in some cases though, probably even in most cases, it's inevitable.
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Why? We overachieved by finishing 2nd last season, our squad isn't the 2nd best in the PL. If you are delusional enough to think it is, then you need to change sports.
Secondly, the very next rival to us, Liverpool significantly improved their squad, spending bucketloads, City strengthened, Chelsea strengthened, Spurs already have a superior XI to us, so for you to be SO SHOCKED to see United struggling for top 4 is laughable. There are 5 very good teams and managers, and some United fans throw all their toys out of the prams at the first sign of danger. I've no time for that kind of fan.
I think the most successful manager currently managing would be attractive for clubs like PSG and Bayern 2 years ago, just like he was for United.
No. Otherwise Bayern wouldn't have hired manager like Kovac, or PSG with Tuchel whose CV isn't very good. 2 years ago Jose came with lot of baggage for stable clubs to hire him.
Wish someone would ask him how Brighton, Wolves and Derby can outplay us for long stretches of games. Would like to see how he spins that. the
It's world cup finals for those teams, we lack attitude and same bs.
"The players don't go out with the right attitude"
"Those teams come to play a cup final against United"
"Something about Pogba"
I know Chelsea finished 10th the season he was sacked but what position where they in when he was sacked?
He pretty much wants beautiful football without trophies. Wonder how much patience his kind of fan would have in that case.
Around 17th
After spending 400m on 10+ player, Spurs still have superior XI to United. It is clearly not Jose's fault. United should give him another 400m
You mention coming second and omit Liverppol reaching the champions league final in the same season?
Jeez! Hopefully we act before that kind of a meltdown.
Exactly, we'll see how they react when Pogba does the same thing with the next manager.
So not even Chelsea sacks a manager after 6 games. RA has more patience than some of you lot.
Mourinho will get rid of Martial and Pogba before he eventually gets sacked. He must be stopped right now imho
So not even Chelsea sacks a manager after 6 games. RA has more patience than some of you lot.
Nice straws.
I'm surprised you've even had this much patience with this poster, I've ignored him more than a year ago.
Keep pretending that it is only based on what's happening on the field.
I haven't bothered replying to him since this post tbh.
Bizzare how he likens Pogba talking out of line to the manager to Mourinho's press conferences. Ones a manager and the other is a player. If anyone doesn't understand the remits they work under given their roles then the discussion is lost on them.
Bayern Munich will never, ever have Mourinho as their manager. He won't even make it to an interview. He goes against every principle they hold as a club. They'll much rather have Van Gaal back than Mourinho.
PSG are a desperate club in need of achieving continental success and would do anything, buy anything to attain it. The perfect setup for Jose. No surprise he was flirting with them last season.
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Sorry, I didn't have time to answer you yesterday. There were people wanting him out then, but they were few. Yeah, opinions change over time, but you haven't really adressed my main point. The number of people who are Mourinho out now compared to the end of last season is much much bigger. Do you think so much has changed on the pitch since than, that warrants this?
This is not only based on the football, it is based on what Mourinho has been saying through the summer until now and his conflict with Pogba. You can't think rationally when you are so emotionally charged, because of your hatred towards someone as a person. Although, it is obviously those who wanted him out before the summer who have only been waiting for him to say something negative or get in a conflict with players, who are hysterical now.
The guy who started the Nazi thread is a great example of what happens when you let emotions get in the way of objectivity. That's an extreme case though, but the same thing is happening now around the forum, only to a lesser extent. This is evidenced partly by the fact that some people are absolving Pogba of any blame in this conflict with Mourinho.
Having said this, It's pretty normal to react like that, you can't expect every fan to be sensible, which is why fans don't get to make the decision of when a manager needs to go.
You're claiming I blindly support him even though I told you that my opinions on him will not be the same in 2-3 months time if we don't improve. Actually, I'm not that far of being in the out camp myself. I'm just a tad more patient than some of you. So we could be agreeing in a while, despite how difficult that might be to believe.
I suppose this is how I see it: We may have finished second last season, but in the grand scheme of things, it was a pretty abysmal second place finish. I feel the limp effort we put in, in the FA Cup Final was just shocking really and the CL exit was embarrassing, no matter what way you look at it. Our performances last season were also pretty meh but we did manage to grind out some decent results. However, most weren't happy with our lethargic style of play but were willing to wait until this season to see if things would change. Not just have things not changed, bit they've actually gotten far worse; Mourinho has given the media constant ammo to micro-scrutinise every aspect our club from the board down to the players. Our performances have been by-and-large terrible and, me personally, I find our style of play directionless and our team selections are often baffling.
So yeah, for a-lot of people, what transpired over the summer and since the start of the season has made them reach their tipping point. But to say it's 6 games is a mere fallacy and a total and utter straw man, as it's a mass accumulation of things stemming from last season that has made people feel the way that they do about Mourinho.
I genuinely wanted him in the first place and he had my full support up until the end of last season. But since then and all the negative shit that is surrounding our club, I want him gone. If I felt there was any hope of him turning it around, then yeah, I would want him to stay to save more upheaval. What gets me is this; how can anyone watch us this season and listen to the constant negative stories and feel we are pulling in the right direction either on or off the pitch? I just don't get it. Maybe you don't blindly defend him, but some certainly do. The ones that do, generally don't put forward good arguments either, they merely resort to insults and start with this holier-than-thou bollox. I'm just amazed anyone watching us can find any positives!
Yeah well there are extreme cases form both sides and that's going to happen on a forum. I think it's fairly easy to weed out the drivel, though. Some mentalist claimed this morning that in 2013 "everyone wanted Moyes over Mourinho" - that's great and all until I dug up a thread from 2013 and the poll had Mourinho with four times the amount of votes that Moyes had. So yeah, there is some crazy revisionism in regards to Mourinho. As I said, I wanted him here and I thought he was going to be extremely successful. I blamed his antics at Madrid and Chelsea on the clubs as both have trigger happy boards and a-lot of cnutish players. But I was obviously naïve. I mean, lightening certainly doesn't strike 3 times and the common denominator is obviously Mourinho and not the clubs. Look at the negative press that followed Cheslea around towards he end of his second spell, it's very similar to what's happening with us. This is hardly a coincidence, now is it? Again, there's one common denominator and it's not the "ABU media".
I didn’t insult you tbh. Just asked for your reasoning. Helps me understand posters like you. So maybe I could preach a little sense back.
Managerial merry go rounds happen at all the ‘big’ clubs these days. Maybe you need to just understand ‘you’ and us were lucky to have SAF, sink that into your affiliations with the club. If your going to see out the next managers then I don’t truly understand your beef. Acting like Jose Mourinho is all Manchester United stands for. I’m sick of these sit on the fence supporters.
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