Porto, Chelsea, Athletico and, I’m afraid to say, us. Remember that we beat Chelsea on penalties after they handed it to us on a plate with Terrys penalty miss. Even ‘99, if we are being honest, had a big slice of luck attached to it after being outplayed for the vast majority of the game. ‘Mediocrity’ is however to harsh a term, but by comparison to the Barcelona and Real Madrid teams, the 4 mentioned were never really in the same league.
The Mourinho Thread: Should he stay or go? | Sacked
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Porto, Chelsea, Athletico and, I’m afraid to say, us. Remember that we beat Chelsea on penalties after they handed it to us on a plate with Terrys penalty miss. Even ‘99, if we are being honest, had a big slice of luck attached to it after being outplayed for the vast majority of the game. ‘Mediocrity’ is however to harsh a term, but by comparison to the Barcelona and Real Madrid teams, the 4 mentioned were never really in the same league.
What the. I thought you would mention us at 2011 and I would tend to agree that our team was average at this time, but no one deserved it more than us in 2008.
I don't mean that at all
what I mean is that we are a proud and loyal bunch especially in the stadium
a bit like being 3-0 down to Scousers at home under Moyes and the fans sang 20 times 20 times relentlessly over the last 15 mins to drown out the scousers
If only he would back up a little and try to adopt his tactis to modern game.
His football could be really effective with more positive approach, but he's just too stubborn and egoistic to apply change and I just don't see any progress with him as manager.
And don't know why he so defensive all the time, getting this negative and pesimistic vibe around the club, when, given his previous accomplishments, he should be cocky and act with positive swagger.
United really lacks in character both on upper club levels and within players and manager(s) since Sir Alex left and it tells on how disorganised club looks like atm.
His football could be really effective with more positive approach, but he's just too stubborn and egoistic to apply change and I just don't see any progress with him as manager.
And don't know why he so defensive all the time, getting this negative and pesimistic vibe around the club, when, given his previous accomplishments, he should be cocky and act with positive swagger.
United really lacks in character both on upper club levels and within players and manager(s) since Sir Alex left and it tells on how disorganised club looks like atm.
Yes - I haven't been impressed with him in either of his two full season. Better than LVG, sure, but it's been no better than ok.
Winning the FA Cup would have been nice but I think the 2nd place finish is fairly meaningless considering we didn't challenge for the title and has been overrated a bit like that first half vs Spurs earlier this season. The CL exit was a disgrace too.
Reminiscent of Mancini's final season at City. Not awful but it was pretty clear he'd done all he could do and it was time to move.
You what? The mediocre 2008 team who won 3 league titles in a row and also made the CL final the following season.
He is 2 years 2 months into his contract and the team hasn't shown any kind of consistency, any kind of identity, any kind of footballing ability. It doesn't really take that much time to impose a philosophy.
I was a staunch supporter of Jose but after the last two games l have had enough. Every good run is just a false dawn and I just don't bother to watch terrible football week in week out.
I get a bit confused about the argument that Jose's defensive tactics are making the team suffer. The team keeps losing possession most of the time and in some phases during the Derby match did not look capable of taking possession off their players. I am not sure what kind of defensive tactic is that.
Unless one thinks that the players are purposefully giving away possession to stay back. But then the players hardly stayed back as well iirc.
Unless one thinks that the players are purposefully giving away possession to stay back. But then the players hardly stayed back as well iirc.
What you've said seems to contradict it self. You've said that the way we are playing it looks as if we are likely to finish out of the top 4, yet you think him getting top 4 would be meaningless?
Surely if we get into the top 4 it would indicate that the team has improved and isn't trying to grind out results like we are now?
Really if you take a step back and look at everything as a whole over Mourinho's time here it's clear that it's way, way, way x infinity too early to be making the passionate judgements everyone is currently making on Mourinho and how much better things are guaranteed to be if we sack him.
Prof. Philip Tetlock studied expert predictions in a variety of fields over 20 years and found their forecasting was no better than chance and no more accurate than the control predictions by random readers of the New York Times. Maybe we can assume that a Premier League manager is better than a Conference manager, but Zidane being an improvement over Mourinho? Pochettino being an improvement over Mourinho? Quite simply I wouldn't trust the Cafe to predict the colour of my milk tomorrow, let alone make an accurate prediction on that.
I know, if there were any indication at all that things might be different but there's not. I wonder how bad it has to get to wake some people up.
I'm not Mou-in regardless now tbh
Is it allowed?
O yeh.. I understand and agreed with that. You guys sacrificed a lot to be there. Might as well enjoy and having fun on the game, instead of being a negative asshole the whole game
(i mean, what's the point being there then).And it's just common sense, being there on the stadium supporting the team; entitled you as a better supporter. As you actually put time and money into supporting the team. I don't see why people have a hard time acknowledging it.
I don't know why people call it a curse. I don't know what it is exactly, maybe his ability to hold a relationship or the downside of his intensity, but Mourinho has regularly lost something with his teams after the second year.
Jose out now before we snowball down the table. Don't let this damage continue.
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I think it goes back to coaching and how the team is set up. Mourinho obviously doesn't tell the players to keep losing possession cheaply, but to me it looks like a) the team isn't well set up to retain possession, e.g. we don't consistently have players moving to make themselves available for a short pass and we also resort to long balls very often; and b) individually the players don't look like they adequately train to retain and play the ball under pressure.
Who needs the media when we have a padawan poster, dishing out insults, who will demand answers. I don't have to answer to you, pal
You haven't a clue about my feelings, connections or affiliations to Manchester United, boy! You haven't a notion
I wish you luck on the next managerial go around the club produces....I'll be there though, will you?
The worst thing is that Sir Bobby never wanted Jose. He even went on record about that.
Turns out his fears were accurate.
Turns out his fears were accurate.
Yeah, but he preferred Moyes over Jose. No matter how you slice it, it's still a indefensible decision to this day.
Mourinho needs to go. He’s hurdling down a well worn path. He did some good work here but his best seems beyond him. His worst weighs heavily on this great club. We can’t afford the damage he will cause if allowed to continue on.
He is what he is. Right now, that’s a hell of burden for this beleaguered club to carry.
He is what he is. Right now, that’s a hell of burden for this beleaguered club to carry.
It's just all so pointless. We're in fandom purgatory because big Ed is a f*cking coward. There is nothing in Jose's history to suggest that he will turn this around. Literally nothing, he's never done it, or come close to doing it. And nothing in the last calendar year has suggested he can get this group of players to perform in an acceptable manner.
The only logical reason to carry on with him is the contract payoff - but we just 'saved' far more than that by not buying any further players this summer. Hell, we'll probably save that much if we continue with him and get out of the goals scored, clean sheets and CL qualification bonuses too. Wait a second...
The only logical reason to carry on with him is the contract payoff - but we just 'saved' far more than that by not buying any further players this summer. Hell, we'll probably save that much if we continue with him and get out of the goals scored, clean sheets and CL qualification bonuses too. Wait a second...
Oh did he? I thought moyes thing was mainly on SAF.
Both of them preferred Moyes over Mourinho at the time.
Think anybody with braincells running into double figures preferred Moyes over Mourinho at the time.
Lets give him some time. Things might change in January after being given enough funds for the transfer as he has full board support
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I mean I understand some, that value Mourinho and out of their devotion for the man they refuse to criticise him but they don't try to straight-up rewrite history and downplay everything bad he's done whilst simultaneously exaggerate everything according to them others have done, but that guy, that guy is just something else.
Please don't blame Sir Alex and Sir Bobby for Moyes' faults. It's really hard to see through people. Sir Alex saw himself in the younger version of Moyes. But instead of being anything remotely close to him, Moyes ended up being his grade D carbon copy. The carbon itself was the copy of the original grade D carbon, manufactured by some dodgy factory in China and being sneaked through illegal boat all the way from Shanghai to Glasgow.
Porto was dominating league those years and if you look at the careers they players have after that CL success it's pretty clear they weren't an ordinary team.
Chelsea reached the final that year and SF next year only going out to uefa robbing them in favor of Barcelona. They had played in SF against Liverpool in 2007 iirc as well, so no, not ordinary by any means.
Athletico is from Bilbao, but I know you're referring to Atletico Madrid. That Atletico has won the league that year where they reached CL final, they got to SF iirc next year and also another final a year after that.
Wasn't it SAF and Gill tho? Iirc they had Guardiola as their primary target, but that NYC meeting didn't go well or something (Guadiola's rumbling about not understanding SAF's English well etc) don't think I ever read it anywhere that Sir Bobby wanted Moyes tho.
Hardly. Most people were horrified at moyes
Hi, welcome to the cafe ❤
I agree with you many were saying the same thing at the time. His style is not suited to the heritage of this club, the brand of football we played is why I became a fan. Watching us play now I dont recognise this team, I don't think any of our appointments have been correct since SAF left.
It's very annoying as Tuchel and Sarri were available in the summer! But our board don't plan and they're not proactive either.
I do wonder what he saw in Moyes - Moyes was never known for playing a good brand of football. If his football was like Eddie Howes I could see why but it's literally the opposite.
It's so strange.
The revisionism is startling around here at times. Yes, I want Mourinho out now but feck me, the majority at the time would have jumped at the chance to bring him in. I mean, the guy had just won a La Liga title the previous season and had a cracking CV. Why the feck would anyone have wanted David fecking Moyes who had never won a thing! I know I was stunned when we appointed him and never wanted him anywhere near the club.
Utter rubbish.O yeh.. I understand and agreed with that. You guys sacrificed a lot to be there. Might as well enjoy and having fun on the game, instead of being a negative asshole the whole game
And it's just common sense, being there on the stadium supporting the team; entitled you as a better supporter. As you actually put time and money into supporting the team. I don't see why people have a hard time acknowledging it.
What about people who can't afford it? Or live miles away?
I used to go regularly because my dad got tickets through his work. Now I live abroad and only go to occasional away games. Does that make me a worse fan than before?
Come back with something better next time.
???
I know hardly anyone who preferred Moyes over Mourinho in 2013 (opposition fans excepted). In hindsight, Mourinho may already have been over the hill back then (post-Madrid). Moyes, on the other hand, never got up the hill in the first place.
Can you pack it in and actually let people answer the guys question? Why are you even in here if you're just going to yell self fulfilling prophecies about how each individual fan is feeling? Christ on a bike, nobody cares what you think people might say. Let them actually have their say and discuss the matter properly.
Top four is fine in this situation for me personally, I'm not Mou in or out though. I'm Mou patient, if he went I'd go 'fair enough, who you got for us this time Ed?' and if he stayed I'd be looking at Ed going 'so you're actually gonna work with him to fix the squad yeah? No vinegar stroke marketing bonanza players? Actual hard working players that want to be here on sensible wages that give a bollock?...'
The squad is a reeking mess full of left over players from SAF's time, players grossly overpaid for what they should earn for the effort they put in and the responsibility they shoulder. There are a bunch of players rammed in there that can't be dropped for fear of paper and fan backlash. I don't know how you can manage under-performing players while having to play them non-stop for other external reasons. I'm not even 100% convinced he's in control of transfers. The end of the window seemed to just be an Ed Woodward "/stubbs ciggy on the ground. Nup sorry mate couldn't get anyone in for ya, good luck this season" when it was clear we are about three or four player swaps and one or two regular players away from having a properly balanced squad at the very minimum.
IF (and it is a big if) Pogba wasn't at this club and this whole thing was going absolutely shite like it is on field, THEN I would be more upset with Mourinho but Pogba is completely under-performing for his stake on the wage bill AND he seemingly is untouchable at board, managerial, marketing and fan level. How on earth do you even make that work on the field? He can down tools and give up all responsibilites whenever he feels like and nobody seems to bat an eyelid. Everybody just defaults to "MOURINHOS FAULLLTTTTTTTT". The players could literally walk up beside posters and go "YEAH ITS HIS FAULT!" and leave after a match without a care in the world. A ridiculous scenario.
There are so many unanswered weirdities with this squad and this club at the moment. If Ed Woodward came out and said right we're going to assemble a crop of talent scouts and football development heads and throw them in a building at Carrington to work on the mid/long term development of player strategy and development and Mourinho plugs into that group and then Ed releases the funds then I'd be happy. If Ed said "I'm stepping down from all player recruitment and letting Mourinho do all of the scouting/recruiting and releasing funds for him" then I'd be happy to see Mourinho continue.
But right now the whole thing is a farcical mess. If three layers of the team aren't working properly then how is Mourinho who is sandwiched in the middle supposed to get anything done with this crop of massively overpaid responsibility shirking pussies?
Somehow this is the worst post I've seen in this thread for a good while. What utter utter nonsense.
Just in general, man. People who spend their hard earned money to support the team, I don't mind calling them better supporter.
Anyway, I am a worse fan than you, but then, so what. It doesn't really affect my feeling about United. But my main point was, even if people watching the game live in stadium, doesn't make them more knowledgeable about what is best for United. Nor making them representing United as a whole. Hence, the Michael Owen analogy.
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