The most toxic squad of first team players that have ever been assembled at Manchester United...

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Depends what is meant by toxic!

Individuals in any team which is not doing as well as expected become fractious and ill tempered, with themselves and start finger-pointing at others, tale-telling to outsiders and to the manager its... "no, not me boss, its him..."

What tends to make it worse for United, is the fact that 'it is United'. What did Shearer say, ..."it would be like living in a goldfish bowl" ...one of his reasons for not joining United.

The big problem is the collection of players, too many for the same positions, but not necessarily the best available, not enough players who are genuine utility players but are 'shoe-horned' into roles, just to make sure others get in the team. Key players not performing when we need them to, and the manager scratching his head about which ones will 'turn up' when he does pick them.

The new manager whoever it is will basically have two choices, choose or develop a playing style that suits the players he already has, and be realistic about what they can achieve; or adopt or develop a style to challenge competitors on his terms, keep those players he can use and move on those he can't. Regrettably it may well have to be the P&O solution.... now that is TOXIC!!
 
There isn’t an ounce of accountability with this squad and that’s down to the clueless board and coaching hierarchy. The countless times United players have resorted to posting on social media straight after a loss to explain their “disappointment” is laughable and reeks of insecurity and a lack of self-confidence. A player who knows what he is supposed to do will knuckle down after a loss and put the hours in at training. No explanation needed.
 
Lynty said:
So professional atheltes are immune to demotivation based on lack of confidence in leadership and failure of expectations? Key areas where demotivation presents itself is lack of productivity, negative discussion and apathy. I think it's pretty obvious that's what we are seeing.

Salary has very little factor on motivation or job satisfaction. People on lower income tend to think this way, but it's not true. There's been numerous studies on this:

http://www.timothy-judge.com/Judge, Piccolo, Podsakoff, et al. (JVB 2010).pdf

" The results indicate that the association between salary and job satisfaction is very weak. The reported correlation (r = .14) indicates that there is less than 2% overlap between pay and job satisfaction levels. Furthermore, the correlation between pay and pay satisfaction was only marginally higher (r = .22 or 4.8% overlap), indicating that people’s satisfaction with their salary is mostly independent of their actual salary. "

https://news.gallup.com/poll/150383/majority-american-workers-not-engaged-jobs.aspx

“Employees earning salaries in the top half of our data range reported similar levels of job satisfaction to those employees earning salaries in the bottom-half of our data range. Gallup’s findings are based on 1.4 million employees from 192 organizations across 49 industries and 34 nations. ”

Of course, we still expect players to behave professionaly as representation of the club, but we can only really point to the leak and perhaps Pogba's ill timed discussions regarding his future as unprofessionalism. Everything else is a clear symptom of demotivaiton and no job satisfaction.

Do I feel sorry for them? No. But I can understand.



Lies.
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No living being is immune to demotivation. But you cant compare the two directly. We are talking about a profession where the employees have more power than the employer, this is the case for most big name players. Actually top footballers can be seen more like self employed than someone devoting their lives for other, their brand alone can sustain them. So it is not the same and yes. It should be easier to keep motivation going when the job is more controlable and you have more say or power in it than if you are a powerless worker with way way less room for negotiation. Money and power doesnt solve everything but its better to have them than not at all. Thats two less problems for professional footballers than your average joe office workers.
 
Tom Cato said:
I had forgotten what I replied to, but as for my response in particular I differentiate between motivation in working at say, Burger King, to being a player in a professional sports team, because the environments are extremely different.

I dont disagree the simple fact that employees can become disgruntled.

The only thing I disagree with is that the situations are comparable between a 8-16 job and a job that involves a sports team.

The studies you cite above fit nicely into the common trope of "money doesnt make you happy". Except in the short run it certainly does, and it enables you the freedom to actually pursue happiness when you dont need to spend energ on things like "can i pay rent this month?" But of course over time, old problems are replaced with new ones, such as your job.

Which brings me to Manchester United players and the mechanisms they work under: These people are not immune to anything you or I are impacted by in daily life, from waking up tired to being unhappy with a colleague or not having a good day on the job.

The big difference for me is that while "most people" need to spend enery on taking care of their needs before they can focus on being happy. The players on this team can start with focusing on being happy, as all their needs are met, forever.

That is not to say that rich people cant be unhappy, because of course they are. But Elon Musks problems are not the same as mine. And Harry Maguires resources to get himself out of a motivational slump is not the same as Andy at the Haggis packaging facility.

The problems players and "normal people" face are in principle the same, but in reality the circumstances and resources available makes it a completely different conversation.
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tenpoless said:
No living being is immune to demotivation. But you cant compare the two directly. We are talking about a profession where the employees have more power than the employer, this is the case for most big name players. Actually top footballers can be seen more like self employed than someone devoting their lives for other, their brand alone can sustain them. So it is not the same and yes. It should be easier to keep motivation going when the job is more controlable and you have more say or power in it than if you are a powerless worker with way way less room for negotiation. Money and power doesnt solve everything but its better to have them than not at all. Thats two less problems for professional footballers than your average joe office workers.
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I'm not a Sports Psychologist, I don't know. Non of us do.

Ultimatley, I agree with you both, it's hard to compare - but I disagree that we have an inherently toxic group players. I don't even think they're unlikable - a run of wins and everyone would be The club has created a lot of these issues and the club has the power to fix them and remotivate the group.

There's probably a couple of lost causes, but I think we'll see a completely different vibe from the squad with a competant permenant manager.
 
Lynty said:
So professional atheltes are immune to demotivation based on lack of confidence in leadership and failure of expectations? Key areas where demotivation presents itself is lack of productivity, negative discussion and apathy. I think it's pretty obvious that's what we are seeing.

Salary has very little factor on motivation or job satisfaction. People on lower income tend to think this way, but it's not true. There's been numerous studies on this:

http://www.timothy-judge.com/Judge, Piccolo, Podsakoff, et al. (JVB 2010).pdf

" The results indicate that the association between salary and job satisfaction is very weak. The reported correlation (r = .14) indicates that there is less than 2% overlap between pay and job satisfaction levels. Furthermore, the correlation between pay and pay satisfaction was only marginally higher (r = .22 or 4.8% overlap), indicating that people’s satisfaction with their salary is mostly independent of their actual salary. "

https://news.gallup.com/poll/150383/majority-american-workers-not-engaged-jobs.aspx

“Employees earning salaries in the top half of our data range reported similar levels of job satisfaction to those employees earning salaries in the bottom-half of our data range. Gallup’s findings are based on 1.4 million employees from 192 organizations across 49 industries and 34 nations. ”

Of course, we still expect players to behave professionaly as representation of the club, but we can only really point to the leak and perhaps Pogba's ill timed discussions regarding his future as unprofessionalism. Everything else is a clear symptom of demotivaiton and no job satisfaction.

Do I feel sorry for them? No. But I can understand.



Lies.
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Bet youre a nice fellow when you order starbucks and they give you half full latte

Poor employee... Demotivated. Owww heres 5 bucks tips
 
Narcissistic, weak minded, mollycoddled most definitely. Toxic I don't think so, although there's a few that need to shut their trap, put their heads down and instead of moaning, focus on what their problem is and solve it.
 
Sky1981 said:
Bet youre a nice fellow when you order starbucks and they give you half full latte

Poor employee... Demotivated. Owww heres 5 bucks tips
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Bet your like:

"What the feck is this, your the most toxic unlikeable bunch of barristas i've ever seen. £9 per hour and you can't make a cup of coffee. They should get rid of the lot of you and hire people who want to work for Starbucks."
 
Lynty said:
I'm not a Sports Psychologist, I don't know. Non of us do.

Ultimatley, I agree with you both, it's hard to compare - but I disagree that we have an inherently toxic group players. I don't even think they're unlikable - a run of wins and everyone would be The club has created a lot of these issues and the club has the power to fix them and remotivate the group.

There's probably a couple of lost causes, but I think we'll see a completely different vibe from the squad with a competant permenant manager.
Click to expand...
Lynty said:
Bet your like:

"What the feck is this, your the most toxic unlikeable bunch of barristas i've ever seen. £9 per hour and you can't make a cup of coffee. They should get rid of the lot of you and hire people who want to work for Starbucks."
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I dont know where you worked at buddy. But if for 9 months i make half a cup full of coffee instead of a full cip I'd be fired long before 9 months.

Maybe tell me where you work and ill apply
 
Sky1981 said:
I dont know where you worked at buddy. But if for 9 months i make half a cup full of coffee instead of a full cip I'd be fired long before 9 months.

Maybe tell me where you work and ill apply
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If most the team are making half cups of coffee for 9 months, doesn’t that point to a problem with work environment/culture, which is management/corporate responsibility to instil.

You can’t sack the whole team?

For what it’s worth, I think the leak needs addressing (either in house or get them out) and I think a couple of the most negative aspects of the dressing room are on their way out. Everyone else needs motivating after a negative season. So what if they’re passing the blame a bit? It’s human nature
 
Lynty said:
If most the team are making half cups of coffee for 9 months, doesn’t that point to a problem with work environment/culture, which is management/corporate responsibility to instil.

You can’t sack the whole team?

For what it’s worth, I think the leak needs addressing (either in house or get them out) and I think a couple of the most negative aspects of the dressing room are on their way out. Everyone else needs motivating after a negative season. So what if they’re passing the blame a bit? It’s human nature
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I'm a realist, I understand that motivation, mood, mental health and 1001 other issues happens as human, and as an employee. I get it, nobody can give even 99% professionalism.

But Rashford has crossed the "reasonable" line long time ago, he has not even bothered to run not once but most of the times. That is unacceptable. And instead of knuckling down and trying harder (a.k.a run more, even for the sake of it) he gives us this leaks and attitude and victims mentality. Again, I can tolerate bad form, I do not tolerate Leaking info, using Liverpool as bargaining chip in contract negotiation, that's attitude problem.

Back to the Starbucks analogy:

I can tolerate in busy hour that they might get slower, or forgot that I Wanted 2 pumps of sugar instead of no sugar, that's acceptable. But getting the order wrong 5 times out of 10 is too much, that's the basic of being a coffee shop isn't it? At what point would you say... hold on, that's unacceptable level. Let alone for a Starbucks. I consider Manchester United as the premier in the industry, even if we're not doing well at the moment I expect certain standards.

As a customer, I'd stop going. As the owner, I'd sack the barrister, and the manager for allowing it to happen.
 
the idiom "one rotten apple will spoil the whole barrel" springs to mind, except it think we have a 3-4 in the club. get rid of them ASAP, the club psychologist should be able to spot the ones that wont or cant change.
I believe a man (or team of men) with top man management and coaching skills could still fix most of these lads. what would cesar milan do?
 
I don't think the players are toxic, the environment is. Even then it's not toxic by design. It's just simple complacency that has set in owing to success building the brand so strong that we no longer needed to be good at football to keep the ££££s rolling in. However, despite that seems like a simple problem with no simple fixes. There aren't simple fixes because the brand is so strong that it doesn't really matter if we are good at football or not for the now. Therefore there isn't really any catalyst or driver for the structural change that needs to be seen from the top level down. After today I do actually start fearing for the future of the club, because I can't see how it will change without getting worse first. Probably the thing that would do it is us just slightly ebbing away a bit of profitability year after year til the Glazers sell and new owners with some fresh idea and ambition come in. It really doesn't look bright at the moment, and I reckon if I were ETH I would have a long think about whether it was such a great idea to take over here.
 
Wibble said:
Yes. Labelling the squad as toxic because we aren't doing that well is right up there with booing your own players.
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I stated that the current squad is the most toxic one that I have ever seen assembled at Manchester United for the following reasons:
> The professionalism of the players
> The attitude of the players

It was as clear as day against Leicester, that the players have checked out.
That comes under professionalism and attitude.
 
Many of the players have lost the hunger. It comes from a combination of the club being run poorly and not winning anything and failing expectations. Because lets be honest, if we weren't rich, most of them would have asked to leave by now. It's a combination of egos and poor morale, which is exactly what the leaks suggest.
 
Yeah it's not necessarily toxic, but for whatever reason definitely doesn't mesh together combined with losing whatever hunger should be there, not being in a good mental place, being overly bloated leaving to unhappiness and then having a team mate that we saw as the future of the club do what Greenwood did. Failed to make the step up to meet rising expectations at the start of the season and then a shit show after.

Either way, we need a refresh in a few ways and it'll happen, so it's a clean slate in the summer.
  • Hopefully Ten Hag in
  • Outgoings including Pogba, Cavani, possibly Ronaldo, Lingard, possibly Martial, possibly VdB, one of the CB's, something with goalkeeper, etc
  • You'd expect we sign a CDM and a striker but who knows
Its a toxic situation. Not necessarily a toxic group. End result is the same but it's an important distinction, as the blame is on the squad building rather than certain individuals.
 
There is a terrible culture/working environment and your more likely to get a pay rise and or promotion for failing than be held accountable. It’s staggering how little accountability there is and how pretty much everyone is massively overpaid whether it’s a player, manager CEO, DOF despite achieving nothing and even failing repeatedly.

There is a terrible culture and I don’t see where there is the appetite and competence to start correcting it. New manager is doomed if the attitude from
above isn’t corrected as all the players know they can probably survive for years on huge wages no matter how they perform.
 
Once Ole said winning is for Ego that whole concept of being winners went out of the door.
 
duffer said:
Not sure if they're really "toxic", probably just not as good as some think they are.
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This. Should be quoted in the 'playing down tools' thread too. They are simply not that good. Look at that starting line up yesterday. Dalot, McT, Elanga all starting. They wouldn't for any other top team in the PL. Add to that a Luke Shaw that looks fat again and Pogba that doesn't care and that makes half a team.
 
Godfather said:
This. Should be quoted in the 'playing down tools' thread too. They are simply not that good. Look at that starting line up yesterday. Dalot, McT, Elanga all starting. They wouldn't for any other top team in the PL. Add to that a Luke Shaw that looks fat again and Pogba that doesn't care and that makes half a team.
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Spot on - I believe that most of the players do ‘care’ and ‘want to do well’ - but the reality is they are bang average and therefore play bang average most of the time. Remember, even our ‘great’ teams occasionally got turned over by so called poor teams - Norwich, Ipswich etc - but I think our win % of about 42% over the last season is about right = top 6/7, but bang average….certainly not worthy of our self-titled ‘world’s greatest football club’.

The squad is bloated in terms of cost to assemble/wages/egos but they are, with few exceptions, bang average mid table footballers. We need a complete over haul but, of course, being owned by those incompetent tools and being day to day run by the equally befuddled board means that it’s more likely going to get worse before it gets better.

Desperate times indeed.
 
P0GBA said:
We support players who try hard and have the right attitude. Elanga is a good example of this.
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Explain the vitriol that is given to Fred and McTominay who are anything but lazy players who don't care?
 
The Mitcher said:
Explain the vitriol that is given to Fred and McTominay who are anything but lazy players who don't care?
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Elanga will get it too eventually, he is just fresh and that is why he is being let off the hook.
 
Cassidy said:
Elanga will get it too eventually, he is just fresh and that is why he is being let off the hook.
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He's had some stick this season alrewdy in a few quarters because he failed to score or assist. A kid being inconsistent is now worthy of sustained attacks.
 
Jericholyte2 said:


Let 'em fecking go! And a few more to that list too!
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There isn't a single player on that list we'd miss there, which speaks volumes for the state of the squad.

Also, we'd be freeing up millions from the weekly wage bill (yes, plural!) by ridding ourselves of that lot.
 
Half a decade without even a league cup. No pressure for title challenge while club not looking to replace them because it will cost money. So instead of getting kicked out, these players are negotiating and getting new bumper contracts. I am not sure what type of players want to join UTD at the moment, probably only mediocre ones who wants a great salary without having the required talent. Hope this will change in the summer.
 
Couldn't care less if we gutted this squad, half of them at least have clearly checked out for the season
 
I find this dressing room more toxic than Jose's.
 
I actually despise this lot and would get shot of 90% of them if it was possible. The seasons finished just play the kids now and let these cnuts sit on the sidelines, they need a reality check.
 
It's not the individual players, it's the culture at the club that has led to this point. The Glazers and Woodward have watched the money roll in but shirked any responsibility to back the manager or hold the players up to any standards of professionalism.

If Rashford had downed tools at City or Liverpool then at best he'd be playing in the reserves.
 
L1nk said:
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For all the [sometimes fair] criticism Rasford has received this season not starting him on Saturday in the face of the no striker alternative was a ridiculous move.

I was all for RR coming in & firmly believe it’s as much an issue with playing staff as anything but this squad is still be mismanaged.
 
Withnail said:
:lol:

Also can we stop this x is the worst it's ever been crap? It's ridiculous.
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It's bloody annoying isn't it.

People do it with the "best" of too.

City are the best ever team, then it's Liverpool are.
Then it's Van Dyke is the best ever defender for a year or so of top form etc etc.

I really don't get why people think our players don't put the effort in for another. The much likelier conclusion is that a lot of them aren't as good as we thought, or the management/system doesn't suit them as much.

Rashford last looked brilliant when we were a counter attacking pace meister attack. Funnily enough, since we've stopped being, a guy with supreme pace doesn't look as handy.
 
Hope to see Luke Shaw and Maguire sold and McTom as a squad player next year. We should probably consider adding Rashford to that list too.
 
We needed Conte and his approach to whip these ponces into shape.
 
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