Well of course I agree but I refuse to give them credit for a mess they created. They could have replaced Mourinho in the summer instead of giving him a new deal then not backing him in the market. Literally everyone knows he turns toxic when disgruntled. Yes it’s certainly Mourinho’s fault for being unprofessional but the board earn big money to get these decisions right and should of known better.
The most toxic squad of first team players that have ever been assembled at Manchester United...
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Well of course I agree but I refuse to give them credit for a mess they created. They could have replaced Mourinho in the summer instead of giving him a new deal then not backing him in the market. Literally everyone knows he turns toxic when disgruntled. Yes it’s certainly Mourinho’s fault for being unprofessional but the board earn big money to get these decisions right and should of known better.
The situations arent even remotely comparable.
Professional sports teams and the conveory belt at the butter factory are not in the same conversation.
The last decade the players have not had a stable leadership, and they are being rewarded new mindblowing contracts by doing bare minimum effort.
Current management are far too kind and i think they are afraid to step on the players toes because the players throw everyone ecept themselves under the bus.
I do hope that when we get a new manager they will form and shape the squad as they please and not being forced to do stupid things like letting Maguire keep the captains armband, play Rashford because he is a local lad, play Pogba because he was good in Juventus and rather reward the players that perform well and put in the effort with a place in the first 11.
Current management are far too kind and i think they are afraid to step on the players toes because the players throw everyone ecept themselves under the bus.
I do hope that when we get a new manager they will form and shape the squad as they please and not being forced to do stupid things like letting Maguire keep the captains armband, play Rashford because he is a local lad, play Pogba because he was good in Juventus and rather reward the players that perform well and put in the effort with a place in the first 11.
You may think that, I disagree and think they have.Erm, no they have not
Weve been booed off at home several times this season.
What did you think of our captain being subbed off to cheers and applause in our biggest game of the season?
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Let's not forget that this idea emerged about five minutes after Fergie retired. Back then it was players like Rio and Vidic who were considered "toxic".
Which was utter bollocks, as it turned out. The manager wasn't good enough, the backroom staff wasn't good enough, key players were over the hill, the squad was in need of an overhaul - and so forth. The poor performances had feck all to do with motivation or "toxicity" as such. Or, if you insist on such factors playing some part, they were way down the list of problems.
Which was utter bollocks, as it turned out. The manager wasn't good enough, the backroom staff wasn't good enough, key players were over the hill, the squad was in need of an overhaul - and so forth. The poor performances had feck all to do with motivation or "toxicity" as such. Or, if you insist on such factors playing some part, they were way down the list of problems.
Don't have an emotional attachment to players but I have to say, I dislike the current squad.
My toxic list. These are the ones dancing in the clubhouse after losses, not giving full effort on the pitch, making faces, etc.
Pogba
Lingard
Martial
Greenwood
Needs an attitude adjustment:
Rashford
Maguire
Shaw
Hate to lose and can be hypercritical:
Ronaldo
Bruno
Leaves every speck of effort on the pitch and just want to win. Doesn’t mean they are good enough for United, but we don’t question effort
Fred
McTominay
Cavani
Elanga
Lindelof
Professional:
Varane
Matic
Mata
De Gea
undecided:
Sancho
Dalot
Telles
AWB
Pogba
Lingard
Martial
Greenwood
Needs an attitude adjustment:
Rashford
Maguire
Shaw
Hate to lose and can be hypercritical:
Ronaldo
Bruno
Leaves every speck of effort on the pitch and just want to win. Doesn’t mean they are good enough for United, but we don’t question effort
Fred
McTominay
Cavani
Elanga
Lindelof
Professional:
Varane
Matic
Mata
De Gea
undecided:
Sancho
Dalot
Telles
AWB
…Because those fans are at their wits’ end after so many false dawns and bad performances.
I guess the players are just sick of being hated. Hated by football fans in general because they play for United and despised by their own fans for every little mistake they make.
Imagine being hated by thousands of people, would mess with most people's heads.
I wouldn't want to play for this team and not because of the Glazers.
Imagine being hated by thousands of people, would mess with most people's heads.
I wouldn't want to play for this team and not because of the Glazers.
If you have a strong culture embedded in place, then the players become an intrinsic part of that. If you don’t, due to rudderless ownership and weak management, then the culture becomes that which is derived from the beliefs and behaviours of the players themselves - and that is what we see in play at United. It doesn’t shine them in a good light at all.
Is toxic just code word for least successful, because a squad which contained Keane Schmeichel, Cantona, Giggs, Sharpe Ince then later on Beckham Ronaldo Staam Ruud Rooney wasn’t exactly full of angels, you had a bunch of lads there who would shag anything walking, constantly be in and out of clubs, have fights with their own team mates and at times even attempt to undermine the manager and bully younger players, the only difference is they were all supremely talented and had a once in a generation manager to put everything together.
Imo, under LVG the football was toxic and then under Jose, Jose himself was toxic. Now it seems like the problem is the actual squad and the unprofessional attitude that was allowed to foster.
Keep Sancho, Varane, untried youngsters ….the rest can Foxtrot Oscar.
Fans that are blindly supporting underperforming players are also the reason for the toxicity, lack of standards.
I don't expect loyalty, passion, and committment, just professionalism
I might not like my company, but until the day i resign or fired i give 99% everytime i work.
I’m not saying the players are amazing or anything but much of the rhetoric surrounding the players come from the media, who are massively incentivised to stir up controversy and negativity
You cant compare normal office jobs with professional footballers. Most office workers have to work for a very long time to be able to retire, we are talking about one or more decades. Football players in a huge club will have enough money for 2 generations by the time they finished 2-3 seasons. Footballers also have adoring fans including kids that idolize them. They love them so much to write songs about the players. Office workers dont have any of that. If I see supporters singing my name when I play football then I would try to make them feel happy even if I hate my job. It's a moral obligation, these people aren't the employer you hate.
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Fans that trumpet this "support all of our players no matter what" bollox contribute to our shitness right now. No accountability and responsibility in the club because no matter how shit they are, you must support them somehow. feck logic. If not you are not "true" fans. And do you notice this logic only apply to "homegrown" and "british" players ? People who defend Rashford and Maguire to death would spurt out dogs abuse to Pogba and Martial while all has been at least equally shite.
Yup normally you'd expect a fan channel to be non biased however; its a joke at the moment. Its more shameful for the people watching and believing in that.
The club are equally at fault, if not more. Its a big problem if you give any youngster who shows a bit of promise mega contracts for long periods. Players like Rashford, Martial, etc. should be nowhere near their current wages. We never seem to learn from our mistakes and keep handing every player whatever they want. Such a culture basically rewards complacency.
You’d think our accountants would start to realise that handing fat contracts in the hope of getting transfer fees is super unsuccessful, and detrimental in the long run. Baffling why they continue to do that.
You’d think our accountants would start to realise that handing fat contracts in the hope of getting transfer fees is super unsuccessful, and detrimental in the long run. Baffling why they continue to do that.
I think there could be something in the fact that many of our squad, in comparison to the likes of City and Liverpool (for example) are mollycoddled 'wonderkids' who have had the Academy silver-spoon in their mouths from a young age. Many of them were touted as great talents before they had actually achieved anything in the game.
I am not saying all of these players are lazy or poor players, but think about the likes of Shaw, AWB, Rashford, Martial, Martial, Sancho, Pogba, McTominay, Lingard, Henderson....all either produced by United or transferred for big money as teenagers.
If you compare with City and Liverpool, many of their players have had to work damn hard to grind themselves into the position they are now after early set-backs. I can't think of many who came through Academies at what you would call traditional 'superclubs'.
We boast about the number of players we produce and we supplement that by poaching young talent from elsewhere....but does paying big money for these young lads actually bear fruit in the modern era? How many 18/19 year-olds have City or Liverpool paid £30-£50m for?
They sign players in their early/mid-20s from Portugal, Spain, Germany, France etc....after they have had to fight to forge a career in the game. I can't be arsed to go through City as well, but look at Liverpool as an example....
Allisson - signed from Roma aged mid-20s
Andy Robertson - signed from Hull at 23
TAA - Academy
Van Dijk - signed from Southampton, via Celtic aged mid-20s
Joel Matip - signed from Schalke aged mid-20s
Jordan Henderson - signed from Sunderland at 22, almost sold before coming good
Fabinho - signed from Monaco aged mid-20s
Naby Keita - signed from Leipzig, aged 23
Sadio Mane - signed from Southampton, aged mid-20s
Mo Salah - signed from Roma, aged mid-20s
Roberto Firminho - signed from Hoffenheim aged mid-20s
All of those players (bar TAA) had to prove they were good footballers before earning a big transfer. We're paying £30m for Luke Shaw at 18, £50m for AWB at 19, £73m for Jadon Sancho at 21, £59m for Martial at 18
Who has arguably been our best player this last three seasons? Bruno Fernandes....bought from Sporting Lisbon in his mid-20s!
We pulled it off twice with Rooney and Ronaldo in 2004 but I think it's time to stop splashing big cash on 'wonderkids' and get some scrappers in who've done the hard yards!
I am not saying all of these players are lazy or poor players, but think about the likes of Shaw, AWB, Rashford, Martial, Martial, Sancho, Pogba, McTominay, Lingard, Henderson....all either produced by United or transferred for big money as teenagers.
If you compare with City and Liverpool, many of their players have had to work damn hard to grind themselves into the position they are now after early set-backs. I can't think of many who came through Academies at what you would call traditional 'superclubs'.
We boast about the number of players we produce and we supplement that by poaching young talent from elsewhere....but does paying big money for these young lads actually bear fruit in the modern era? How many 18/19 year-olds have City or Liverpool paid £30-£50m for?
They sign players in their early/mid-20s from Portugal, Spain, Germany, France etc....after they have had to fight to forge a career in the game. I can't be arsed to go through City as well, but look at Liverpool as an example....
Allisson - signed from Roma aged mid-20s
Andy Robertson - signed from Hull at 23
TAA - Academy
Van Dijk - signed from Southampton, via Celtic aged mid-20s
Joel Matip - signed from Schalke aged mid-20s
Jordan Henderson - signed from Sunderland at 22, almost sold before coming good
Fabinho - signed from Monaco aged mid-20s
Naby Keita - signed from Leipzig, aged 23
Sadio Mane - signed from Southampton, aged mid-20s
Mo Salah - signed from Roma, aged mid-20s
Roberto Firminho - signed from Hoffenheim aged mid-20s
All of those players (bar TAA) had to prove they were good footballers before earning a big transfer. We're paying £30m for Luke Shaw at 18, £50m for AWB at 19, £73m for Jadon Sancho at 21, £59m for Martial at 18
Who has arguably been our best player this last three seasons? Bruno Fernandes....bought from Sporting Lisbon in his mid-20s!
We pulled it off twice with Rooney and Ronaldo in 2004 but I think it's time to stop splashing big cash on 'wonderkids' and get some scrappers in who've done the hard yards!
We've all been pretty scathing about many of them but I do hear the main grievance that we and the players all have about the lack of top coaches at United and the direction we go each year. It's a negative feedback loop.
By rewarding failure with long improved contracts is whats perpetuating the problem. Just one example Rashford; apparently being offered a new improved contracy when he has done nothing to deserve it. Any competent board would look a this objectively and look at both pros and cons of keeping him. At the moment the cons far outweigh the pros and they should explore selling and replacing, before blindly offering a new contract.
For Rashford he knows he can half heartedly play shit in most games with no consequence
For Rashford he knows he can half heartedly play shit in most games with no consequence
It’s not really their fault tbh. The running of the club is just absolutely disgraceful, fat new contracts regularly handed out despite underperformance means players aren’t going to be motivated by winning. It’s only natural.
I am not sure I would describe them as "toxic", more "the most pathetic", but other than that - I agree with the sentiment. It is certainly the most dysfunctional squad in my lifetime. And it's been going on for a while.
We're going through our "Spice Boys" phase. The only reason we haven't seen the white suits is because this lot can't even make it to an FA Cup final.
How dare some of the Posters on here brand the players as Mercenaries!!
Same Posters that always slated the manager first
What manager since Fergie left haven't we crucified before the actual player?
I think that we deserve the culture after we didn't back MOU with his fight against Pogba
Say what you want about MOU, he is still our most successful manager and the same viruses that he complained about have now become full blown Epidemic Species
Same Posters that always slated the manager first
What manager since Fergie left haven't we crucified before the actual player?
I think that we deserve the culture after we didn't back MOU with his fight against Pogba
Say what you want about MOU, he is still our most successful manager and the same viruses that he complained about have now become full blown Epidemic Species
The effort and desire of the players is at an extremely low ebb.
However, what came first, insufficient quality or insufficient attitude? It's probably the former. When you have the right quality, with the right manager, and everyone pulling in the same direction then you have a recipe for success.
When you don't have a great bunch of players, just individual star quality that isn't well integrated and then heaps of mediocre players that wouldn't grace other top clubs, what can the outcome be except mediocrity?
Then I think what happens is the attention towards the club, the negativity around the club, it creates a vicious spiral that's very hard to escape. Everybody's confidence is shot and some have completely given up the ghost because they don't see any way to turn it around under the current structure. You would think this should mean they at least give 100%, and they absolutely should. But I think it's a different generation of players, they tend to feel sorry for themselves and give in.
However, what came first, insufficient quality or insufficient attitude? It's probably the former. When you have the right quality, with the right manager, and everyone pulling in the same direction then you have a recipe for success.
When you don't have a great bunch of players, just individual star quality that isn't well integrated and then heaps of mediocre players that wouldn't grace other top clubs, what can the outcome be except mediocrity?
Then I think what happens is the attention towards the club, the negativity around the club, it creates a vicious spiral that's very hard to escape. Everybody's confidence is shot and some have completely given up the ghost because they don't see any way to turn it around under the current structure. You would think this should mean they at least give 100%, and they absolutely should. But I think it's a different generation of players, they tend to feel sorry for themselves and give in.
Right now the trend is white designer t shirts with diamond littered gold chains on their necks
What an utter embarrassment of a thread.
Agreed. A different manager/club culture in charge and all these toxic players fall in line. Players in general aren't saints. Same thing could happen at City with a different setup regardless of the character of the players.
I'd be over the moon if my boss paid me 2500 quid per week and ignored me half arsing my way through the job. Lest we forget these players are getting paid 100 times more.
U could also say too much support and patience for underperformance and a meek acceptance for falling standards and mediocrity.
I won't say they are "Toxic". But it is very obvious that many of our players lack the winning mentality, even though they may be good persons in real life.
They are content with mediocrity, not push themselves hard enough, not brave enough, don't want to shoulder responsibility, show not enough sign of urgency when we are behind, etc.
maguire and rashford are just a great examples of this.
They are content with mediocrity, not push themselves hard enough, not brave enough, don't want to shoulder responsibility, show not enough sign of urgency when we are behind, etc.
maguire and rashford are just a great examples of this.
So professional atheltes are immune to demotivation based on lack of confidence in leadership and failure of expectations? Key areas where demotivation presents itself is lack of productivity, negative discussion and apathy. I think it's pretty obvious that's what we are seeing.
Salary has very little factor on motivation or job satisfaction. People on lower income tend to think this way, but it's not true. There's been numerous studies on this:
http://www.timothy-judge.com/Judge, Piccolo, Podsakoff, et al. (JVB 2010).pdf
" The results indicate that the association between salary and job satisfaction is very weak. The reported correlation (r = .14) indicates that there is less than 2% overlap between pay and job satisfaction levels. Furthermore, the correlation between pay and pay satisfaction was only marginally higher (r = .22 or 4.8% overlap), indicating that people’s satisfaction with their salary is mostly independent of their actual salary. "
https://news.gallup.com/poll/150383/majority-american-workers-not-engaged-jobs.aspx
“Employees earning salaries in the top half of our data range reported similar levels of job satisfaction to those employees earning salaries in the bottom-half of our data range. Gallup’s findings are based on 1.4 million employees from 192 organizations across 49 industries and 34 nations. ”
Of course, we still expect players to behave professionaly as representation of the club, but we can only really point to the leak and perhaps Pogba's ill timed discussions regarding his future as unprofessionalism. Everything else is a clear symptom of demotivaiton and no job satisfaction.
Do I feel sorry for them? No. But I can understand.
Lies.
totally agree
Difficult to know if it is the players who are toxic, we all like a good moan about things at work, now is it the players going to the press of friends and family on the make leaking stuff.
Its not that bad. A lot of what we hear are just rumours.
Wasn't it Neville who said just last season that this is a more likeable team?
Fact is, we've yet to have a manager who have been able to get the best out of this current group.
You'll have ego's in every team, but our current squad is not unmanageable.
We just need a top class manager!
Wasn't it Neville who said just last season that this is a more likeable team?
Fact is, we've yet to have a manager who have been able to get the best out of this current group.
You'll have ego's in every team, but our current squad is not unmanageable.
We just need a top class manager!
I had forgotten what I replied to, but as for my response in particular I differentiate between motivation in working at say, Burger King, to being a player in a professional sports team, because the environments are extremely different.
I dont disagree the simple fact that employees can become disgruntled.
The only thing I disagree with is that the situations are comparable between a 8-16 job and a job that involves a sports team.
The studies you cite above fit nicely into the common trope of "money doesnt make you happy". Except in the short run it certainly does, and it enables you the freedom to actually pursue happiness when you dont need to spend energ on things like "can i pay rent this month?" But of course over time, old problems are replaced with new ones, such as your job.
Which brings me to Manchester United players and the mechanisms they work under: These people are not immune to anything you or I are impacted by in daily life, from waking up tired to being unhappy with a colleague or not having a good day on the job.
The big difference for me is that while "most people" need to spend enery on taking care of their needs before they can focus on being happy. The players on this team can start with focusing on being happy, as all their needs are met, forever.
That is not to say that rich people cant be unhappy, because of course they are. But Elon Musks problems are not the same as mine. And Harry Maguires resources to get himself out of a motivational slump is not the same as Andy at the Haggis packaging facility.
The problems players and "normal people" face are in principle the same, but in reality the circumstances and resources available makes it a completely different conversation.
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