The MMA thread

[Fortitude]

And what other fights are there for the winner of that match-up? So limited value there

They’ll try and talk up Joshua, but he doesn’t need UFC fighters with Parker, Wilder, Fury out there for him

If N'Gannou is a Tyson-esque world breaker, the spectacle will be him smashing the next poor sod, and the next, until a slayer comes along who has it in him to contest against what will then be built up to be an undefeatable monster.

A scenario such as N'Gannou going on a tear through 2018 whilst Cain somehow gets fit and is able to challenge in 2019 for a superfight would easily bring in huge numbers and be a box office draw that culminates in a spectacle most would want to see.

For many people, Cain is still the true champion of the division and he could easily be built up as such even with someone else holding the belt.

It's either that or some young blood comes in and turns heads, I think.

re. Joshua, until N'Gannou has anything like the profile to generate the huge bucks, Joshua has absolutely no reason to fight him, so again, 2018 would be about profile building before a potential superfight of some sort (boxing or MMA) could really be considered.

--

Darren Till has massive heel potential and I think he could be a draw as a dislikeable guy who people want to see beaten to a pulp, but I'm not sure he has that overall presence/charisma to draw in people in his favour, which is what the very best heels have plenty of.

 

[Raoul]

Not until they, combined, generate the income Conor does.

Conor is actually bigger than the sport - and that's the beast Dana fed because he profited from it.

All his golden boy/girl ventures have come up spectacularly short and amongst the new wave, who do you think has genuine superstar potential?

If N'Gannou becomes the Tyson of the HW's, possibly him, but even he doesn't have much charisma and if you go through the divisions total packages are non-existent, as there's generally either great fighters who can't sell a fight on anything but their ability, or great talkers, who can't match the words that come out of their mouth. And in terms of charisma, well, who is there outside of Conor?

Even someone like Sonnen had the heel-like qualities that made people emote enough to want to watch him and/or listen to his blabber before a fight. Same goes for Bisping, who tried his hardest to sell himself and his fights, even if he came up short in the octagon.

Conor's got them by the balls and they know it. It'll take something extraordinary to happen for him to be stripped or not indulged whilst he holds his division to ransom, effectively.

This means little if he doesn’t fight does it. He hasn’t stepped into the Octagon since 2016 and may not again until at least this summer or possibly even later. A once every 20 month fighter isn’t going to cut it for the UFC. Nor is a fighter who demands so much money that when he does fight, the profit potential for the UFC is eliminated by his PPV point cut or even more laughable, his demands to be made part owner. He is eliminating his own value to the UFC by his extended absences, drama queenish demands, and pretending he has leverage over them that he doesn’t actually have. The sport was doing just fine without him and will continue to thrive long after Conor and his WWE antics move on to making Fast and the Furious sequels.

As for stripping him of his belt, they will obviously do this at some point. They’ve done it before and Dana just said they will do it again if he doesn’t fight in a few months. Tony v Khabib willl be the title fight and Conor will be on the outside looking in if he doesn’t get his act together.

 

[Vato]

Conor bigger than the sport? Come on now..

I guess when he hangs up his gloves we'll all stop watching.

 

[sullydnl]

Conor bigger than the sport? Come on now..

I guess when he hangs up his gloves we'll all stop watching.

He isn't bigger than the sport to actual MMA fans but he probably is to the casual fans who a) make him a star and b) make the UFC so much money. We wouldn't stop watching if he retired but a lot of them definitely would, which is a problem when they're the cohort whose money the UFC desperately wants.

 

[Vato]

He isn't bigger than the sport to actual MMA fans but he probably is to the casual fans who a) make him a star and b) make the UFC so much money. We wouldn't stop watching if he retired but a lot of them definitely would, which is a problem when they're the cohort whose money the UFC desperately wants.

Nah, I don't believe in that. Other stars come up all the time who each have their own following.

This sport is the fastest growing sport now and it was before Conor joined the UFC. All this talk about Conor being bigger than the sport is just fanboying imo.

 

[Fortitude]

This means little if he doesn’t fight does it. He hasn’t stepped into the Octagon since 2016 and may not again until at least this summer or possibly even later. A once every 20 month fighter isn’t going to cut it for the UFC. Nor is a fighter who demands so much money that when he does fight, the profit potential for the UFC is eliminated by his PPV point cut or even more laughable, his demands to be made part owner. He is eliminating his own value to the UFC by his extended absences, drama queenish demands, and pretending he has leverage over them that he doesn’t actually have. The sport was doing just fine without him and will continue to thrive long after Conor and his WWE antics move on to making Fast and the Furious sequels.

As for stripping him of his belt, they will obviously do this at some point. They’ve done it before and Dana just said they will do it again if he doesn’t fight in a few months. Tony v Khabib willl be the title fight and Conor will be on the outside looking in if he doesn’t get his act together.

There's a reason they're not stripping him despite his antics as well as putting up with all the shite he's putting them through... and they listen to his demands at points where they would can others because they have to.

The sport was doing fine because it had multiple superstars driving it and that kept all of them in line. With each one being dethroned, Conor ceased his opportunity and rode it like a smart business man should.

If they had a ready-made Ronda, Jones, GSP, Conor wouldn't be able to call the shots like he is.

Dana bet on Northcutt, Vanzant and a few others who all failed miserably so now he's stuck with his one golden goose and that's not likely to change for the foreseeable until others with true star potential can sell like Conor and make him an expendable asset or at least one that can be reined in.

Dana has made a fortune off Conor. He's not going to jeopardise more earnings from him until there's no other option but to boot him.

Conor bigger than the sport? Come on now..

I guess when he hangs up his gloves we'll all stop watching.

no but a hell of a lot of casuals will unless an equivalent star is there for them to latch on to.

Conor is getting them ppv and exposure that otherwise would not be there.

They've got themselves a cash cow they won't do without unless he becomes untenable.

 

[Fortitude]

Nah, I don't believe in that. Other stars come up all the time who each have their own following.

This sport is the fastest growing sport now and it was before Conor joined the UFC. All this talk about Conor being bigger than the sport is just fanboying imo.

Name 2 fighters in the current roster people with no interest in MMA would tune in or pay money to follow.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

Is McGregor an asset or a distraction for MMA? Has two belts, any sign of fighting? Surely needs to be more active. If it was boxing and a fighter crossed over instead of defending his titles, he'd be stripped for inactivity. Any word on whether he fights before March/April?

 

[Vato]

Name 2 fighters in the current roster people with no interest in MMA would tune in or pay money to follow.

Nate Diaz, Francis Ngannou

 

[Fortitude]

Nate Diaz, Francis Ngannou

N'gannou I'll grant you. Diaz

 

[Vato]

N'gannou I'll grant you. Diaz

I mean, they might not be as big a "star" *puke* as McGregor but there are so many exciting young fighters in nearly every division. Like Yair Rodriguez, Brian Ortega, Mighty Mouse, Garbrandt, Holloway, Gaethje etc.. The list is almost endless.

I don't get why fans are trying to keep this myth alive that Conor is bigger than the sport. I really don't. Why would fans care so much if the ufc sells a few less ppv's? It's not like they're suddenly going to go bankrupt when it's the fastest growing sport in the world.

 

[Raoul]

There's a reason they're not stripping him despite his antics as well as putting up with all the shite he's putting them through... and they listen to his demands at points where they would can others because they have to.

They haven't stripped him yet because he made them some money when he boxed Mayweather - and the fact that Ferguson and Khabib haven't fought yet. The idea is to make them fight first before fighting Conor. If Conor however tries to subvert that by asking for too much money then Dana has said he will strip him. Watch the Skype interview he just did the other day.

The sport was doing fine because it had multiple superstars driving it and that kept all of them in line. With each one being dethroned, Conor ceased his opportunity and rode it like a smart business man should.

If they had a ready-made Ronda, Jones, GSP, Conor wouldn't be able to call the shots like he is.

Superstars come and go. If Conor moves on, rest assured there will be others who emerge, so this is not much a point any more. It would also be foolish for the UFC to lopsidedly rely on one fighter to sustain themselves as it would expose them once that fighters leaves. GSP is back and will fight again at some point and Jones will also come back probably sooner than most think he will.

Dana bet on Northcutt, Vanzant and a few others who all failed miserably so now he's stuck with his one golden goose and that's not likely to change for the foreseeable until others with true star potential can sell like Conor and make him an expendable asset or at least one that can be reined in.

Northcutt was never meant to be a Conor style self-promoter. They just promoted him as one of several new faces they wanted to put out there in the hope that something would take off.

Dana has made a fortune off Conor. He's not going to jeopardise more earnings from him until there's no other option but to boot him.

no but a hell of a lot of casuals will unless an equivalent star is there for them to latch on to.

Conor is getting them ppv and exposure that otherwise would not be there.

They've got themselves a cash cow they won't do without unless he becomes untenable.

Again, this means feck all if Conor doesn't fight or if he asks for too much money to where the UFC don't make the extra money they may expect by promoting Conor fights. If he doesn't fight, he will be stripped - that is a guarantee. It has happened before and will happen again unless he pulls his head out of his ass.

 

[Raoul]

Is McGregor an asset or a distraction for MMA? Has two belts, any sign of fighting? Surely needs to be more active. If it was boxing and a fighter crossed over instead of defending his titles, he'd be stripped for inactivity. Any word on whether he fights before March/April?

Increasingly more so a distraction than an asset. The only people who deny this are those who likely never watched much UFC before 2014 and feel that Conor is the UFC, which is of course completely laughable.

 

[Raoul]

Name 2 fighters in the current roster people with no interest in MMA would tune in or pay money to follow.

I seriously doubt people with no interest in MMA would watch any fighter unless it was for free. The people the UFC cares about are casual fight fans who like watching good fights. That is the demographic they are interested in expanding. Not people who know feck all about MMA.

 

[JP77]

There's a reason they're not stripping him despite his antics as well as putting up with all the shite he's putting them through... and they listen to his demands at points where they would can others because they have to.

The sport was doing fine because it had multiple superstars driving it and that kept all of them in line. With each one being dethroned, Conor ceased his opportunity and rode it like a smart business man should.

If they had a ready-made Ronda, Jones, GSP, Conor wouldn't be able to call the shots like he is.

Dana bet on Northcutt, Vanzant and a few others who all failed miserably so now he's stuck with his one golden goose and that's not likely to change for the foreseeable until others with true star potential can sell like Conor and make him an expendable asset or at least one that can be reined in.

Dana has made a fortune off Conor. He's not going to jeopardise more earnings from him until there's no other option but to boot him.

no but a hell of a lot of casuals will unless an equivalent star is there for them to latch on to.

Conor is getting them ppv and exposure that otherwise would not be there.

They've got themselves a cash cow they won't do without unless he becomes untenable.

I get the point you're trying to make but it's quite silly to say those two failed miserably. Northcutt is 21 years old, VanZant is 23. Let's not act like they were both late experiments who lost fights and now stand no chance of making it big. In fact VanZant has made a good name for herself already at 23. Despite the fact she's not on the level right now of the top women she's actually very marketable.

 

[sullydnl]

I mean, they might not be as big a "star" *puke* as McGregor but there are so many exciting young fighters in nearly every division. Like Yair Rodriguez, Brian Ortega, Mighty Mouse, Garbrandt, Holloway, Gaethje etc.. The list is almost endless.

I don't get why fans are trying to keep this myth alive that Conor is bigger than the sport. I really don't. Why would fans care so much if the ufc sells a few less ppv's? It's not like they're suddenly going to go bankrupt when it's the fastest growing sport in the world.

I don't care if the UFC sells fewer PPVs, I'd be relatively happy if McGregor left and sanity returned to the sport.

The UFC do care though as they're a business looking to make money.

For all the talk that other fighters could take his place as the UFC's main attraction, nobody is currently even remotely close to doing so. Which is hardly surprising given he's the biggest draw in the sport's young history. Other stars do come all the time but another superstar like McGregor will be a rare thing.

For all the talk that McGregor is becoming a liability to the UFC, they have and will continue to make an obscene level of profit off him, even if he continues to up his demands. By the standards of his counterparts in other sports McGregor has actually been massively underpayed by the UFC up to this point. It would be bizarre if the UFC didn't recognise that and do everything they can to keep their cash cow alive for as long as possible.

If we're talking about a fighter being "bigger than the sport" in terms of the power he wields then it's those sort of commercial considerations that come into play rather than how many young fighters there are who look exciting in sporting terms. After all, the preferential treatment the UFC gives him is hardly based on merit or talent.

 

[Raoul]

I don't care if the UFC sells fewer PPVs, I'd be relatively happy if McGregor left and sanity returned to the sport.

The UFC do care though as they're a business looking to make money.

For all the talk that other fighters could take his place as the UFC's main attraction, nobody is currently even remotely close to doing so. Which is hardly surprising given he's the biggest draw in the sport's young history. Other stars do come all the time but another superstar like McGregor will be a rare thing.

For all the talk that McGregor is becoming a liability to the UFC, they have and will continue to make an obscene level of profit off him, even if he continues to up his demands. By the standards of his counterparts in other sports McGregor has actually been massively underpayed by the UFC up to this point. It would be bizarre if the UFC didn't recognise that and do everything they can to keep their cash cow alive for as long as possible.

If we're talking about a fighter being "bigger than the sport" in terms of the power he wields then it's those sort of commercial considerations that come into play rather than how many young fighters there are who look exciting in sporting terms. After all, the preferential treatment the UFC gives him is hardly based on merit or talent.

Conor doesn't need the UFC and while the UFC could make a lot of money off of him, it is not a make or break proposition for them either. Conor/Nate holds the UFC PPV record at 1.65m buys but people often forget that Lesnar/Mir is just behind that with 1.6m buys - and that happened well before the UFC is as mainstream in its popularity as it is today. So this idea that Conor is critical to the UFC having high PPV buys is well off the mark. Also, it doesn't benefit the UFC that much that if it makes 1.6m buys on a Conor event and he turns around and wants 30% or more of that. There'ss little profit left for them to where they would make the same amount by promoting a non-Conor event.

If you look at the numbers - the UFC's problem is not enough Conor - its the fact that their non-Conor PPV events are gradually getting less and less PPV buys because of their lopsided marketing structure where they hype up one or two fighters so much that their others fighters get poorer numbers.

 

[RedFish]

Just strip him of his belts already. Conor is taking the piss. He can fight the winner of Khabib v Ferguson when he's spent all his cash. For now, he's inactive and irrelevant.

 

[cyberman]

Conor doesn't need the UFC and while the UFC could make a lot of money off of him, it is not a make or break proposition for them either. Conor/Nate holds the UFC PPV record at 1.65m buys but people often forget that Lesnar/Mir is just behind that with 1.6m buys - and that happened well before the UFC is as mainstream in its popularity as it is today. So this idea that Conor is critical to the UFC having high PPV buys is well off the mark. Also, it doesn't benefit the UFC that much that if it makes 1.6m buys on a Conor event and he turns around and wants 30% or more of that. There'ss little profit left for them to where they would make the same amount by promoting a non-Conor event.

If you look at the numbers - the UFC's problem is not enough Conor - its the fact that their non-Conor PPV events are gradually getting less and less PPV buys because of their lopsided marketing structure where they hype up one or two fighters so much that their others fighters get poorer numbers.

I'll stick up for the UFC here, MMA is a ridiculous sport in the way that anybody can beat anybody on a given night. With the standard getting higher and higher this will only become more obvious.
The problem UFC has is the publics perception of losing. Go on any sort of losing streak, hell one high profile loss would do and your stock plummets. It all disappears to the scenario when we have Lawler v RDA on fight night.
Look at Conor with fans repeatedly bringing up his loss to Nate years later. It was even brought up v Mayweather with Conor being mocked as some sort of spineless quitter for a standard (and encouraged) tap in MMA.
To be fair to Dana he has repeatedly said to fighters if they go out and have exciting fights and / or add a bit of personality then the UFC will get behind you. The problem has been fighters taking safety first approaches in fights and displaying the personality of a wet towel.
Instead of being listened to he gets mocked then it becomes the UFC fault fighters can't get eyes on the them. They're being told what to do and it's not due to UFC preferences, they're telling them the best way to market themselves because the UFC know what works and what doesn't work.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

I'm no McGregor Fan but some of this talk is naive. McGregor isn't just generating revenue, having McNugget fight also elevates the brand name because suddenly, all the main stream publications and broadcasters jump on board, casuals tune in and there is generally a buzz leading up to his fights that no one else can match on the current roster.

 

[Fortitude]

@Raoul I don't think there's a point us going back and forth over this because it'll just be a re-emphasis laden circular discussion.

I do think you're underplaying Conor's worth to the organisation though. I also think taking Dana at his word doesn't lead anywhere because he has to posture otherwise it looks absurd.

Conor has them by the balls until an actual star emerges who can cushion the blow of canning him and one of those is miles off. An organisation like UFC needs superstars to expand rapidly otherwise it's just us fans watching and a slow organic growth.

 

[Fortitude]

I get the point you're trying to make but it's quite silly to say those two failed miserably. Northcutt is 21 years old, VanZant is 23. Let's not act like they were both late experiments who lost fights and now stand no chance of making it big. In fact VanZant has made a good name for herself already at 23. Despite the fact she's not on the level right now of the top women she's actually very marketable.

it's not about their respective ages but rather that they were supposed to be prodigious talents who would go straight to the top and they were promoted as such.

They both obviously have time on their side but they can no longer be billed as Dana hoped because they aren't that special.

 

[Raoul]

@Raoul I don't think there's a point us going back and forth over this because it'll just be a re-emphasis laden circular discussion.

I do think you're underplaying Conor's worth to the organisation though. I also think taking Dana at his word doesn't lead anywhere because he has to posture otherwise it looks absurd.

Conor has them by the balls until an actual star emerges who can cushion the blow of canning him and one of those is miles off. An organisation like UFC needs superstars to expand rapidly otherwise it's just us fans watching and a slow organic growth.

I agree that the UFC needs superstars but that doesn’t mean they will continue to indefinitely play Conor’s game. He himself also has other options like another boxing match that could make him more than any UFC fight could, so at some point they will likely have a breaking point where the ties will be cut and Conor will be sent packing into the world of WWE or films.

 

[JP77]

it's not about their respective ages but rather that they were supposed to be prodigious talents who would go straight to the top and they were promoted as such.

They both obviously have time on their side but they can no longer be billed as Dana hoped because they aren't that special.

I know it's off topic in regards to what we're discussing but I think they both get a bad wrap from certain fans, it's quite strange. It's easy to forget Northcutt is 21. It's also easy to forget this dude got his break in the UFC at 19. That's absolutely crazy to be fighting at the absolute highest level possible at that age, I think he deserved most of the publicity and attention he was getting not only for being talented but he had the added bonus of the look too. At 19 he fought 4 times in 6 months.

VanZant came in at a similar age I believe, 20 I think? Again, a ridiculous age to start at the top level. I think they were right to push both of them. Neither has turned into a big star yet (and neither might never pull it off) but they're both well known now and have time on their side because they're so young. Interestingly VanZant left Team Alpha Male and is went over to Team Quest, fighting next weekend after moving to 125.

Now I sound like a proper Northcutt fanboy

 

[Raoul]

I'm no McGregor Fan but some of this talk is naive. McGregor isn't just generating revenue, having McNugget fight also elevates the brand name because suddenly, all the main stream publications and broadcasters jump on board, casuals tune in and there is generally a buzz leading up to his fights that no one else can match on the current roster.

This may be true to a degree but remember that UFC generally had better overall ratings before Conor arrived on the scene. Back then, the likes of Lesnar and Mir pulled very good PPV numbers and their non marquee cards were doing better than they are today.

 

[Oggmonster]

They haven't stripped him yet because he made them some money when he boxed Mayweather - and the fact that Ferguson and Khabib haven't fought yet. The idea is to make them fight first before fighting Conor. If Conor however tries to subvert that by asking for too much money then Dana has said he will strip him. Watch the Skype interview he just did the other day.

Dana says a lot of things though, until it happens I'd probably ignore it. I honestly can't see them stripping him. Equally the belt is so devalued at this point that it probably doesn't mean much anyway. Most people will class Khabib vs. Ferguson as the real title fight if it happens before McGregor vs. whoever. The problem they've got is the minute that fight happens and one of them wins they're gonna call out McGregor anyway, kind of rendering the whole thing a bit pointless.

I seriously doubt people with no interest in MMA would watch any fighter unless it was for free. The people the UFC cares about are casual fight fans who like watching good fights. That is the demographic they are interested in expanding. Not people who know feck all about MMA.

I know of people who had and still have no interest in MMA but paid to get in to casinos to watch McGregor vs. Diaz 2, McGregor vs. Mayweather and would also probably do the same again to watch him fight if he does fight again. Granted the UFC doesn't use people I know as a way of judging the popularity of fighters but McGregor will bring in viewers and numbers of people who wouldn't care about the UFC otherwise. Equally he will bring in viewers who will stick around and probably pay or watch future UFC events therefore he has huge value to them. People may know feck all about MMA now but they can get in to it and pick it up in the future and that is valuable to the UFC.

Just strip him of his belts already. Conor is taking the piss. He can fight the winner of Khabib v Ferguson when he's spent all his cash. For now, he's inactive and irrelevant.

I agree they should strip him really but they won't. they have a TV deal to negotiate and he is their biggest star, him holding a belt does hold some value. Like has been suggested by various journalists on twitter (notably Helwani) the UFC is pretty desperate. They were throwing round names like Mayweather fighting for the company to try and increase stock when in reality it was never happening. They will keep the belt on McGregor just to give the impression he will fight again even if he has no intention to. I also don't think he's irrelevant, he's probably one of the most famous athletes in the world at the moment and that has huge value. Especially considering he competes in one of the "smaller" sports.

This may be true to a degree but remember that UFC generally had better overall ratings before Conor arrived on the scene. Back then, the likes of Lesnar and Mir pulled very good PPV numbers and their non marquee cards were doing better than they are today.

They marketed people better then as well though. They put all their eggs in one basket with Conor and at the moment it's backfired massively. 216 with Ferguson headlining only did 200k numbers. Compare that to McGregor's and it's really poor. They fail to market any potential top star and it is backfiring miserably, there is a load of names and people in the UFC that could be stars along with McGregor but they landed on such a cash cow they decided to ignore them all. I suppose it's easy to criticise but for 1 (somewhat brief) moment they had the likes of Rousey and McGregor both pulling in huge numbers and both were/are at or coming in to their prime, Dana probably thought success would roll in on the back of that however it didn't work out perfectly.

Dana is half the problem really and I've said it before. This is the guy who should be talking up fighters yet he consistently shits on them. He's thrown Woodley under the bus before, he's done it to GSP in the past as well. His treatment of Nunes when she pulled out of the first Valentina fight was ridiculous. That's a fighter who dominated Rousey and Tate and probably had potential to be a big enough name and then he shit all over her it's just a bit odd to me. For all the talk of Conor is bigger than MMA it's worrying that arguably the second biggest name in the company isn't even an active fighter, that's more alarming for me.

I don't think Conor is bigger than the sport but I do think the answer is somewhere in the middle of "he's no where near bigger" and "he's bigger" I think it's a case of somewhere in the middle. The UFC have allowed him to get out of control and they've milked him as well. He's not bigger than the sport but I think it's a case he's probably the first thing people would think of when they think of the company showing he is of huge value to them.

The worst thing is they've actually got people in the company who are interesting and personalities but they aren't interested in them. Off the top of my head N'Gannou has an interesting story, Khabib is a personality, Ferguson is odd and something different, Kevin Lee, Stipe, Cormier, DJ, Dillashaw, Holloway, Woodley, Weidman, Romero, Derrick Lewis can all talk and are interesting and I'm sure there's loads more they're just not given the opportunity to do it in the UFCs time. There's probably loads of potential stars waiting around for them.

 

[Raoul]

Dana says a lot of things though, until it happens I'd probably ignore it. I honestly can't see them stripping him. Equally the belt is so devalued at this point that it probably doesn't mean much anyway. Most people will class Khabib vs. Ferguson as the real title fight if it happens before McGregor vs. whoever. The problem they've got is the minute that fight happens and one of them wins they're gonna call out McGregor anyway, kind of rendering the whole thing a bit pointless.



I know of people who had and still have no interest in MMA but paid to get in to casinos to watch McGregor vs. Diaz 2, McGregor vs. Mayweather and would also probably do the same again to watch him fight if he does fight again. Granted the UFC doesn't use people I know as a way of judging the popularity of fighters but McGregor will bring in viewers and numbers of people who wouldn't care about the UFC otherwise. Equally he will bring in viewers who will stick around and probably pay or watch future UFC events therefore he has huge value to them. People may know feck all about MMA now but they can get in to it and pick it up in the future and that is valuable to the UFC.



I agree they should strip him really but they won't. they have a TV deal to negotiate and he is their biggest star, him holding a belt does hold some value. Like has been suggested by various journalists on twitter (notably Helwani) the UFC is pretty desperate. They were throwing round names like Mayweather fighting for the company to try and increase stock when in reality it was never happening. They will keep the belt on McGregor just to give the impression he will fight again even if he has no intention to. I also don't think he's irrelevant, he's probably one of the most famous athletes in the world at the moment and that has huge value. Especially considering he competes in one of the "smaller" sports.



They marketed people better then as well though. They put all their eggs in one basket with Conor and at the moment it's backfired massively. 216 with Ferguson headlining only did 200k numbers. Compare that to McGregor's and it's really poor. They fail to market any potential top star and it is backfiring miserably, there is a load of names and people in the UFC that could be stars along with McGregor but they landed on such a cash cow they decided to ignore them all. I suppose it's easy to criticise but for 1 (somewhat brief) moment they had the likes of Rousey and McGregor both pulling in huge numbers and both were/are at or coming in to their prime, Dana probably thought success would roll in on the back of that however it didn't work out perfectly.

Dana is half the problem really and I've said it before. This is the guy who should be talking up fighters yet he consistently shits on them. He's thrown Woodley under the bus before, he's done it to GSP in the past as well. His treatment of Nunes when she pulled out of the first Valentina fight was ridiculous. That's a fighter who dominated Rousey and Tate and probably had potential to be a big enough name and then he shit all over her it's just a bit odd to me. For all the talk of Conor is bigger than MMA it's worrying that arguably the second biggest name in the company isn't even an active fighter, that's more alarming for me.

I don't think Conor is bigger than the sport but I do think the answer is somewhere in the middle of "he's no where near bigger" and "he's bigger" I think it's a case of somewhere in the middle. The UFC have allowed him to get out of control and they've milked him as well. He's not bigger than the sport but I think it's a case he's probably the first thing people would think of when they think of the company showing he is of huge value to them.

The worst thing is they've actually got people in the company who are interesting and personalities but they aren't interested in them. Off the top of my head N'Gannou has an interesting story, Khabib is a personality, Ferguson is odd and something different, Kevin Lee, Stipe, Cormier, DJ, Dillashaw, Holloway, Woodley, Weidman, Romero, Derrick Lewis can all talk and are interesting and I'm sure there's loads more they're just not given the opportunity to do it in the UFCs time. There's probably loads of potential stars waiting around for them.

Agree 100%. Rather than build their fighters up more evenly, Dana and the UFC opted for the lopsided approach of building one or two people up into megastars and generally ignoring the rest of their fighters. The result is having a PPV based revenue system where in most instances your megastars aren't fighting since they only fight once a year or so and all the other fighters like Holloway, Woodley, Nunes, Mighty Mouse, Garbrandt et al. then go out and only make a few hundred thousands buys for their events.

The UFC then have to grovel at the likes of Conor, Nate, Rousey (when she was champ), and the likes of GSP and Lesnar to make megafight cards. Well what happens when those fighters feck off to do other things ? We now have a situation where Conor has made $100m fighting Mayweather, which is about what he would make in 4 UFC fights over the span of 2 to 3 years. So he doesn't really have to fight in the foreseeable future and who is to say he won't opt for a bit more boxing since he makes more money doing it. Nate Diaz has now basically turned into a drama queen who won't entertain fighting again since he made bank off his two Conor fights, so Nate is more or less off the table as well. Rousey is gone. Lesnar was a one off against Hunt and wont be back due to age and steroids, and GSP is back on ice after his recent comeback.

So the question has to be asked whether the UFC have done the right thing in building up a few megastars or whether they should've spent their time more wisely to gradually build a more stable brand where each of their champions had a similar marketing value so that each of the UFC PPV events gets a more steady flow of buys in the 500k range. They would make more money doing it this way since they wouldn't have to deal with the Nunes/Shevchenko 100k PPV numbers we've recently seen.

 

[Oggmonster]

So the question has to be asked whether the UFC have done the right thing in building up a few megastars or whether they should've spent their time more wisely to gradually build a more stable brand where each of their champions had a similar marketing value so that each of the UFC PPV events gets a more steady flow of buys in the 500k range. They would make more money doing it this way since they wouldn't have to deal with the Nunes/Shevchenko 100k PPV numbers we've recently seen.

I think their problem is that you can't not hype up the likes of McGregor (or Rousey/Jones etc...I'd discard Lesnar he had a following from WWE so they didn't exactly hype him up on their own) but it comes at the disadvantage to others as they are constantly overshadowed and even more worrying they're put down by their own boss! McGregor is at a level where he doesn't constantly need hyping up by someone like Dana. The best thing the UFC do is ignore him really until he decides to come back and not massage his ego constantly. The likes of Nunes, DJ, Woodley, Dilashaw, Whittaker could do with some kind of hype or push from them and instead 4 out of that 5 have been shit on by Dana in the press it's just bizarre. They are people with stories, they are interesting in interviews and people would buy into them as well. It's not even like they have to feck McGregor off or anything, his fights sell regardless now he's a massive name, they can talk up the others at the same time. It's just weird all round really. They've done it in the past well with Jones, Rousey, GSP or Anderson SIlva I dunno why they can't do it now....I suspect part of it is lack of interest from Dana to be honest, he's worth $500million, he has no money motivation now.

 

[cyberman]

The girlfriend was watching the Golden Globes last night and Brendan Schaub pops up as a fecking co-host.
Brendan fecking Schaub.
Fire that agent Brendan, you're diluting your brand name with gigs like these my man!

 

[Nucks]

The girlfriend was watching the Golden Globes last night and Brendan Schaub pops up as a fecking co-host.
Brendan fecking Schaub.
Fire that agent Brendan, you're diluting your brand name with gigs like these my man!

He is the absolute worst.

The guy is a legend in his own mind. Ug.

 

[Oggmonster]

He's forged a great career for himself post fighting to be fair though. Especially for an average fighter...fair fecks to him really.

 

[cyberman]

@Nucks
You have to give him credit for branching out but he does have a history of getting great gigs only to sink without a trace.
Thats why his agent needs to calm down here.

 

[Nucks]

Conor bigger than the sport? Come on now..

I guess when he hangs up his gloves we'll all stop watching.

Conor is not bigger than the sport. He's the biggest star, but the UFC is in the business of making stars. Conor is not as good as people think he is. Conor is a special case of, charisma (to a certain type of person), hate (to another type of person), skill, and luck. He's been gifted two title shots without really having to run the gauntlet of either division he got those shots in. One of which he didn't have to fight anyone, and the other he got to avoid the most dangerous fighters. He did win both fights, one against a guy who just isn't really that good and is tailor made for Conor, and the other against one of the GOATS who now looks like he is on the decline, was he on the decline before Conor? Hard to say the fight ended in like .5s.

He got starched by a journeyman 155'r who really shouldn't even be ranked in the top 10 at 155, and won a razor thin decision (I thought he lost, but I can see it going either way) in the rematch. All world fighters don't lose to Nate Diaz. He's also benefited from being the UFCs latest PR construction, and they hit gold with him, but now its biting them in the ass. Conor was lucky to have the UFC shelter him from some of the killers at 145 outside of Aldo, and ALL of the killers at 155.

 

[Nucks]

@Nucks
You have to give him credit for branching out but he does have a history of getting great gigs only to sink without a trace.
Thats why his agent needs to calm down here.

Yea, it's just so insane to me. He is, however, the absolute worst. There is a TMZ interview with him about a Pacquiao Conor fight (I think), and it's the worst. A normal celeb will humor the TMZ guy and try to get away/end the "interview" asap. Schaub not only manages to look incredibly happy and smug about being interviewed by TMZ, he manged to stretch it into a much longer than necessary q and a, where he starts talking about how he is a super successful comic selling out events as a headliner.

Guy is living off of his friendship with Joe Rogan.

 

[Vato]

Conor is not bigger than the sport. He's the biggest star, but the UFC is in the business of making stars. Conor is not as good as people think he is. Conor is a special case of, charisma (to a certain type of person), hate (to another type of person), skill, and luck. He's been gifted two title shots without really having to run the gauntlet of either division he got those shots in. One of which he didn't have to fight anyone, and the other he got to avoid the most dangerous fighters. He did win both fights, one against a guy who just isn't really that good and is tailor made for Conor, and the other against one of the GOATS who now looks like he is on the decline, was he on the decline before Conor? Hard to say the fight ended in like .5s.

He got starched by a journeyman 155'r who really shouldn't even be ranked in the top 10 at 155, and won a razor thin decision (I thought he lost, but I can see it going either way) in the rematch. All world fighters don't lose to Nate Diaz. He's also benefited from being the UFCs latest PR construction, and they hit gold with him, but now its biting them in the ass. Conor was lucky to have the UFC shelter him from some of the killers at 145 outside of Aldo, and ALL of the killers at 155.

Oh I couldn't agree more with you.

I would absolutely love for him to stop running and be put in the cage with Khabib to finally open the eyes of most. But unfortunately that won't happen as he just knows that being ragdolled and beat to a pulp by the russian would make his stock plummet.

 

[cyberman]

Conor ran the gauntlet at 145, there was only Frankie Egar left ffs!

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Conor ran the gauntlet at 145, there was only Frankie Egar left ffs!

To be fair he was given a title shot after beating Siver and his strongest opponent before that was a very young Holloway. What about Lamas, Edgar, Cub etc? He didn't face anyone in the top 5 before getting the title shot.

Some say mini Mendes, but that wasn't a contender fight. Mendes was a replacement.

 

[Raoul]

To be fair he was given a title shot after beating Siver and his strongest opponent before that was a very young Holloway. What about Lamas, Edgar, Cub etc? He didn't face anyone in the top 5 before getting the title shot.

Some say mini Mendes, but that wasn't a contender fight. Mendes was a replacement.

I can't see Conor beating Holloway of the present. He's just too good now.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

I can't see Conor beating Holloway of the present. He's just too good now.

Agree. I don't think most people around his weight class can to be honest. I honestly believe him to be in the conversation for p4p best fighters

 

[Nucks]

Conor ran the gauntlet at 145, there was only Frankie Egar left ffs!

LOL. No, he didn't. The only top guy who fought who was top at the time was Chad "Mini Camp" Mendes, who was in Montana or something hunting when he got the call, and rolled into camp on 7 days notice I think?

Holloway certainly looks good on his resume, but he got Max before Max was great.

The top 5 when Conor was coming up, were

1) Aldo
2) Frankie
3) Mendes
4) Swanson
5) Lamas or Oliviera

Melendez was still in the mix then too, arguably top 5.

At the time Holloway was maybe 6. I'd rank Conor in that top 5 mind you, but other than Conor thats what your top 5 looked like 2-3 years ago.

He fought one guy out of the top 5, and the guy came in on a weeks notice. So no, he didn't run the gaunlet, let's see who he actually fought.

Marcus Brimage, who?
Max Holloway, great fighter now, but he wasn't ready then.
Diego Brandao, good win but the guy has never been top. 18-10 I think when he fought Conor. A good veteran, nothing more.
Dustin Poirier, good win, but the guy has never been top 5. Good eliminator fight.
Dennis Siver, he's a journeyman. Next.
Chad Mendes, the only top 5 guy he fought before Aldo.
Aldo, great win, but it didn't really tells us much about how they'd shake down without an instant flash KO, the way say, Max dismantled Jose exactly the same way in two fights.

No Lamas. No Edgar. No Oliviera. No Swanson. You run the gauntlet, you take out at least 3 of the top guys in the division.

I won't hold the 155 fight against him so much, because the UFC saw Eddie 'sloppy brawler' Alvarez had somehow stopped RDA, and saw an opportunity to build the hype around Conor even more. I don't think he was deserving of it, in a way that say GSP was deserving of fighting Bisping, but Bisping was the top fighter at 185 in much the same way Alvarez was. They were in the right place at the right time, got the job done, but any number of dudes at 155 and 185 would have smashed Alvarez or Bisping.