Around the first minute of the first round McGregor landed a straight punch to Chad's face. His reaction to that punch was priceless. Pure pain. After that 1 punch i think Chad was already thinking about the end.
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Around the first minute of the first round McGregor landed a straight punch to Chad's face. His reaction to that punch was priceless. Pure pain. After that 1 punch i think Chad was already thinking about the end.
Can't argue with that mate. Mendes was never going to be a cakewalk, he's a different level to the likes of Siver. Conor will not face a better wrestler than Mendes, although Edgar comes close and can keep the same pace for 5 rounds. Mendes has gassed before even with a full fight camp, he's just too muscled.
I think it's an issue of being too emotionally invested. A lot of people really, really like Connor. Whenever he does something it's like the most amazing and spectacular thing ever. They have no distance and therefore no objectivity.
Chad won the first round pretty easily. He was winning the second round pretty easily. It's also obvious that two things played a major roll in this fight;
1) Chad had 2 weeks to really prepare. He was not at his peak gas tank wise.
2) Connor came out and was looking to target his gas tank.
So which factor is more important? I think it's pretty clear which is more important. We've seen Chad fight a longer, harder, more grueling and more brutal fight with Aldo and not look as tired as he did vs Connor. This doesn't discount what Connor did, but you need to put it in perspective. Connor attacking the body compounded an already present issue. I think it speaks more to the fight smarts of Connor and or his trainers. Attack the body of a guy taking a fight on short notice = smart.
Winning is winning.
Chad won the first round pretty easily. He was winning the second round pretty easily. It's also obvious that two things played a major roll in this fight;
1) Chad had 2 weeks to really prepare. He was not at his peak gas tank wise.
2) Connor came out and was looking to target his gas tank.
So which factor is more important? I think it's pretty clear which is more important. We've seen Chad fight a longer, harder, more grueling and more brutal fight with Aldo and not look as tired as he did vs Connor. This doesn't discount what Connor did, but you need to put it in perspective. Connor attacking the body compounded an already present issue. I think it speaks more to the fight smarts of Connor and or his trainers. Attack the body of a guy taking a fight on short notice = smart.
Winning is winning.
Conor.
To be fair Rex,
People have been talking about McGregors suspect wrestling game from nearly his first fight I believe. It's not something new, I've had this debate for months now with friends. Tonight just highlighted it to be true.
People have been talking about McGregors suspect wrestling game from nearly his first fight I believe. It's not something new, I've had this debate for months now with friends. Tonight just highlighted it to be true.
I don't know, be some fight, Penn was some man for the stand up battles.
I don't believe I've said anything of the sort that you are suggesting here. You are confusing me. I don't hate Connor. I'm not trying to shit on him. I try to be as objective and as analytical as I can. To judge something any other way is just a waste of time. Connor didn't do anything to night to dispel the concerns I have about his game. I thought he was weak on the ground, and he still looks weak on the ground.
I've always been this way. When Chuck was being hyped as the greatest fighter in the world, I was there on the sidelines saying "what about the fact the UFC hasn't signed any technical strikers?" "What about the fact the guys in the LHW division are all grappling experts with weak striking and weak take downs?"
When people were hyping Anderson Silva as the greatest ever, I was saying "He is in the weakest division in he UFC, where are the top tier wrestlers? What if Hendo decided to hold Anderson down instead of trying to h-bomb him?"
When people try to shit on Jon Jones, I was saying "How can you not recognize this guy as the best in the division, the best P4P, and probably will become the GOAT surpassing Fedor, he's faced every challenge, faced a murderers row, and faced guys who are recognizably elite in an incredibly deep division".
I was also a guy who waited a very long time before being willing to say Jones is the best in MMA, because you can't just hype a guy and say he's the best until he actually proves it and puts all doubt aside where there are no excuses.
Jones crushed Machida. He crushed Shogun. He crushed Rashad. He crushed Chael. He fought a WAR with Gustavvson, and while the fight was exceedingly close, he showed that championship heart. He beat Cormier. He answered all the questions. He ticked all the boxes.
Connor hasn't done that yet. I have never said he won't. He might. I don't think he will. I think the hole in his game IS too glaring.
Indeed. He's one of my all time favorites. His striking was great and so was his submission game, truly he won with his talent rather than physical gifts. In his prime, he had probably the best striking technique in the lower divisions. Only thing is his opponents were rather shitty wrestle-boxer strikers with very basic stand up techniques. The best he beat was probably Duane Ludwig but we never got to see much of the stand up. He also beat a green Gomi but Gomi was more of a power puncher, a bit like Chad. They just didn't have strikers like Pettis, RDA or Cerrone back then. Anyway don't want to turn this into a BJ discussion so ill just leave it at that.
Completely agree,
Jones for me is a good distance ahead of any other fighter in MMA history, I just have a wry chuckle when people put other names forward. No one has done what Jones has done in the manner he has done it.
His only real threat? Himself.
Exactly what I think/saw too there tonight. McGregor's had feck all time to prepare for a fighter like Mendes I can't understand why these self professed non objective or non biased fans are glossing over that side of things and making such a big thing about Mendes only having so much time to prepare for the fight. He was the one that was fight a lad with a style that he has fought many times before.
The preparation arguments on both sides cancel themselves out IMO. What happened inside the cage was as clear as the light of day. McGregors strengths outweighed the strengths of Mendes.
Conor.
I have no problem praising someone I dislike. I dislike Jones. I'd go so far as to say I hate him. Everytime he gets in the cage I want someone to fecking smash him. I think he is scum. He's also an incredible fighter. He is this crazy confluence of odd abilities. He isn't really all that athletic, not in a traditional sense. He isn't explosive, he isn't really all that powerful. However he is all arms and legs and odd angles and grace and fluidity of motion, and then he grabs hold of you and cart wheels you on your head.
No they don't cancel out.
One guy is preparing for a fight for months. He is in absolute peak physical condition preparing to fight. The other guy is just working out in the gym.
Neither guy was preparing for the other. Cancel each other out.
One guy was preparing to actually fight, the other wasn't. That doesn't cancel out.
Who's comparing him to Jones? I'm saying, and most others are saying that he's the fighter to beat in the division. He's answered all the questions put to him, so far. Yes, his wrestling is still a doubt, but he's fought one tonight and beat him. Yeah, Mendes only had two weeks to prepare, likewise, Conor only had two weeks to prepare for a wrestler. It's a different fight to the one he was preparing for.
I'm at a loss to see why you're comparing him to Jones though. Nobody here is claiming he's the greatest of all time or even the greatest in the division right now. But he is the one to beat. He's the form fighter in the division and has beaten everyone that has been put in his way so far.
Yeah, I know that. And he fought a wrestler tonight and beat him. Yeah, Mendes wasn't 100% so the question marks are still there. But lets see him prepare to fight a wrestler and then see where his game is. Mcgregor and his team's work can't be questioned. They have prepared for each fighter they have fought meticulously. So to take on a wrestler on short notice, when that is the biggest weakness in his game, and beat him is still impressive for me.
I think you have to put Anderson in the discussion just because of the way he finished his fights. He pioneered a lot of techniques.
I humbly apologize for adding an n to his first name. Doesn't really change the thrust of my argument though does it.
I don't dislike the guy at all, I just think he's a feckin idiot. The haters can try doubt his work in the cage but it's not really valid. He's just given them fuel for fire.
I suppose like all greats they have their "demons". Look at the greats of football, Best and Maradona? Even in other sports, Woods? Tyson? Armstrong?
The problem with Anderson is who he fought. Who DID he fight? The MW division during Andersons reign was awful. It was AWFUL. Look at who he fought. Other than a couple of names, it's a bunch of guys who you wouldn't think twice about.
Compare that to Jones. When the MW division was one of the weakest, the LHW division was one of the strongest if not the strongest. Jones is directly, DIRECTLY, responsible for a shift in this metric in recent times. Jones cleaned the LHW division out and many guys who were former contenders at LHW have gone to MW. Now MW is one of the strongest divisions and LHW has become a bit of a wasteland, partially because Jones chased many of them away, and partially because many of them are past it.
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McGregor said something along the lines of having to deal with an injury as well but he still fought so until anyone knows more for sure on that side if things I'd be slow enough in saying he was in absolute peak physical condition.
McGregor said something along the lines of having to deal with an injury as well but he still fought so until anyone knows more for sure on that side if things I'd be slow enough in saying he was in absolute peak physical condition.
Agree. Lot of people get caught up in their emotions. Whether or not you like, dislike or even hate someone, that doesn't mean someone isn't great. Lance is the greatest cyclist in history. He is also probably the biggest asshole in cycling history. They were all cheating so let's not get in that debate ;p
I think there is considerable difference between being in the gym working out and training, to actually training to fight. In one, you are just working, keeping in general shape. In the other you are training to peak for a very specific date. You are training with an intensified purpose, and you are training specifically to fight because you know you ARE fighting. These guys cannot go 100% all the time in their training, injuries are frequent, bodies break down.
That 2-3 month run up to a fight is incredibly important because that is when the intensity ramps up. The intensity also completely drops off about 2 weeks before a fight to let any niggles settle down. Chad did not have that ramp up of intensity. He only had that final 2 week period where he knew 100% he was fighting where everyone usually drops off and goes into light training and maintenance mode so they hit the fight as fresh as possible.
Everyone is usually carrying some sort of injury. That is why they slow down about 2 weeks out, to mitigate those injuries as much as possible and to coast on the hard work they did in the 8-10 weeks prior to that.
If Conor was badly hurt that needs to be considered in his performance as well, but right now it's just speculation. There is no speculation regarding Chad. He had 2 weeks. He did not have an opponent to prepare for, nor did he have a fight to prepare for. Conor had a fight to prepare for, he had that intense training camp, he just had a different opponent at the last minute. One guy had a full camp, neither guy knew who he was fighting until the last minute.
I am comparing the hype Conor has with the hype other fighters have had. I was called out for being a hater. I was providing a point of reference as to why I remain skeptical about Conors position at the top of the division. Near the top? Sure. At the top? He needs to prove it before people should say he is it.
Your argument in that particular post seemed to be mainly demolishing a straw man about McGregor being the greatest ever, or comparable with Silva and Jones. Claims nobody has been making. So yeah, my pedantry didn't take away from that argument at all.
It's 9am and I'm on my phone ao can't reply to anything properly.
McGregor tore his knee again, meniscus tear apparently while rolling with Rory MacDonald.
McGregor wins by KO in two rounds, against a last minute opponent against a style he is weakest against against having a fecked knee and not being able to train properly.
What a guy. Anyway I accept Mendes cardio issue, anything else about striking etc is a load of balls. Conor had a plan, executed the plan, and won. Mendes' shots didnt phase him even a little bit. Both sides can make excuses but there is still only one winner, and he won in style.
McGregor tore his knee again, meniscus tear apparently while rolling with Rory MacDonald.
McGregor wins by KO in two rounds, against a last minute opponent against a style he is weakest against against having a fecked knee and not being able to train properly.
What a guy. Anyway I accept Mendes cardio issue, anything else about striking etc is a load of balls. Conor had a plan, executed the plan, and won. Mendes' shots didnt phase him even a little bit. Both sides can make excuses but there is still only one winner, and he won in style.
Shit. That's not good news about his knee at all. Was it the one he had surgery on? If the joint is still unstable it could be an issue for the rest of his career.
The narrative leading up to the fight, or as it was starting. ... was McGregor's appearance and how he had to cut so much weight so quickly.
Why isn't that now being mentioned as any factor into his performances against an elite wrestler? Sure a 2 week training camp is rough, so is a huge weight cut in a few days.
He got taken down and manhandled...then got up and knocked him the feck out.
You beat what's in front of you. If Mendes agreed to take the fight on Short notice because he thought he could win...that's his own fault for underestimating his opponent.
Why isn't that now being mentioned as any factor into his performances against an elite wrestler? Sure a 2 week training camp is rough, so is a huge weight cut in a few days.
He got taken down and manhandled...then got up and knocked him the feck out.
You beat what's in front of you. If Mendes agreed to take the fight on Short notice because he thought he could win...that's his own fault for underestimating his opponent.
No Idea, was a rumour that now looks to true, especially as McGregor said there now at press conference he had an injury, he wouldn't say what it was. Presumably its the same knee and he sees it as a weakness so doesn't wanna say it out loud or whatever.
Again its just a rumour so possibly not true but look likely.
You should re-read the thread. There are plenty of posts suggesting Conor is the best in the division. My bringing up Silva, Jones, Chuck etc isn't a strawman. It's framing how I analyse fighters. I'm a wait and see guy. I want to see what they can do against legitimate opponents before I jump in and acknowledge them as great. Plenty of people here think Conor is great. Plenty think Conor has already proven all he needs to prove.
So ya, you being pedantic actually didn't take anything away from the argument.
Actually was meniscal tear, dunno if that's better or worse?
Im a dick they're same thing. Im very tired
Killing that cardio.
Miniscus is not a big deal.
It's just going to be tender. I've done the terrible triad and played on it successfully. Of the main injuries you can do to your knee miniscus is probably the least troublesome. It's the little bit of cartilage. It's not great for when you're 60 and your knee starts grinding, but being young and in your prime it's no ACL or MCL.
Were you preparing for a title fight against Chad Mendes?
This has nothing to do with it. A tear of the medial miniscus causes no function issues. It is simply an issue of pain and it isn't really even that painful. Cartilage doesn't really hurt. What a tear of the medial miniscus will do, is cause some initial discomfort (I suppose it varies based on pain tolerance) and fluid buildup inside of the joint itself. In terms of structural injuries to the knee, the medial miniscus is a non-starter. Had he torn his ACL, MCL, or had the opposite injury of the PCL or LCL those would be very serious injuries.
When I did my knee, I had the luxury of playing with a brace designed to provide the lateral stability the ACL and MCL give. You can't wear a brace in MMA like that. That also hurts, a lot, even with a brace. Having a torn medial miniscus is basically going to suck in 40 years. In the short term it's like having a sprained finger, only it probably impacts your performance less.
I still think this was a great win for Conor and did answer some questions. First of all, mentally, he's bulletproof, incredible mental strength. Second of all, the was a lose lose for him(in terms of answering the great wrestling debate), and he had it all on the line. Mendes had no pressure, had to do little media obligations, didn't have to listen to McGregor talk shit for months. All he had to do was turn up, and hold him down. Not only couldn't he do it, he got knocked out within 2 rounds trying to do it in the process, couldn't visibly hurt conor with a shot despite being rated as one of the most powerful hitters in the division. Couldn't keep him down despite being the best or close to wrestler in the division.
So Mendes couldn't hold him down, and couldn't hurt him on the feet, and got knocked out in the process. All with basically no pressure on him, and all of it on McGregor. Did Mendes have shitty cardio? Yea. But that's still a big fecking loss for him just because of shitty cardio.
So Mendes couldn't hold him down, and couldn't hurt him on the feet, and got knocked out in the process. All with basically no pressure on him, and all of it on McGregor. Did Mendes have shitty cardio? Yea. But that's still a big fecking loss for him just because of shitty cardio.
The meniscus has nothing to do with joint stability. It is the two little caps of cartilage in the knee between the femur and tibia. Many people who tear it never need surgery. What it will do is accelerate arthritic like symptoms in the knee (bone grinding on bone) but that is a long way off.
Sometimes it accompanies ligament tears, like the ACL and MCL or more rarely the PCL and LCL. If he had done any of these ligaments, it is very unlikely he would have been able to fight because those do cause major stability issues and you cannot wear rigid braces in MMA for this.
I disagree with some of your analysis.
Chad actually had very little trouble keeping Conor on the ground when he was trying to hold him on the groun. When Conor was able to get up, it was when Chad was going for submissions. It all comes back to cardio. Chad was going for submissions because he looked desperate. Maybe he knew he was in trouble cardio wise and figured he had to go for it while he still had something in the tank? I don't know. What I do know is that Conor couldn't do anything while Chad was just holding him down and ground and pounding him. The only time he really had any escapability is when Chad transitioned to sub attempts.
Cardio is kind of an important thing too, you shouldn't under estimate it. Look at Clay Guida. Giant cardio spaz and he wins fights with it.
McGregor was busting Mendes up from his back too though, they were nasty elbows to the head, he was also hitting him on the arms to try and kill them, pretty clever I thought. He also nailed Mendes pretty fecking hard to the body a few times, perhaps that had the biggest effect on his cardio who knows.
I'm rewatching the fight now, in the first McGregor lands a lot of hard shots to the body.
Okay just finished first round. McGregor did some serious damage to Mendes body in that round, go back and watch. He was digging into it with teeps, and was lighting Mendes up on the feet. Mendes got takedowns, although McGregor defended one or two. Mendes certainly didn't put a beatdown on him as someone else suggested.
Second round, I've counted 5 more body kicks, and then some nice punches landed, Mendes rushes in with takedown.
Mendes been on top for about 30 seconds now, hit him with two elbows. McGregor keeping his guard closed, seems alright to just sit and wait. Another elbow from Mendes. Conor landing elbows from bottom, still has his guard closed. Punch from Mendes but kinda misses. Elbow from Mendes. Conor has that big flurry of elbows from bottom. Big one from Mendes again. Few more scuffles, then Conor opens his guard, Mendes attempts pass into side control, McGregor bridges with his hips and Mendes loses control of McGregor's posture and goes for the choke, McGregor gator rolls out of it and they're back to their feet. McGregor wins.
Mendes been on top for about 30 seconds now, hit him with two elbows. McGregor keeping his guard closed, seems alright to just sit and wait. Another elbow from Mendes. Conor landing elbows from bottom, still has his guard closed. Punch from Mendes but kinda misses. Elbow from Mendes. Conor has that big flurry of elbows from bottom. Big one from Mendes again. Few more scuffles, then Conor opens his guard, Mendes attempts pass into side control, McGregor bridges with his hips and Mendes loses control of McGregor's posture and goes for the choke, McGregor gator rolls out of it and they're back to their feet. McGregor wins.