The MMA thread

PhilipB said:
Well first of all, he has already failed a drug test the first time he fought Silva. His testosterone levels were crazily high then so it's already been proven he's a cheat, why believe anything he says this time around. Secondly, If he was using banned substances then he shouldn't have been putting himself forward for any fights.
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You don't need to believe anything he says. The results are public record. Chael Sonnen isn't really the issue. The issue is that the drugs he was busted for are used for PCT and that is why they are banned. They aren't PED's, they are seen as proof of using PEDs. That is why this case is so unique and Chael himself isn't the issue. The point is the commission banned TRT yet didn't put in pace any rules which allow for those with exemptions to safely come off it. You can't disclose a banned substance, which many are suggesting Chael should of. What should have happened is the commission should have foreseen this and put in place new temporary exemptions for people coming off TRT allowing them to use certain drugs for PCT.

Btw, I don't think Chael ever had crazy high testosterone levels. He had a high T/E ratio. This is consistent with those using TRT. It's normal for guys on TRT to have T/E ratios several times higher than average men, but many misunderstood this and think that is the reason he was suspended. He was suspended for not properly disclosing in Nevada. He'd been given TRT exemptions previously and it was well known he was a TRT user. That's why he got a 6 month suspension and not a year. No one within the UFC was shocked to discover he was on TRT, he'd been on it for a few years. TRT was legal then and he would have qualified for an exemption for the Silva fight, as he had for previous fight and fights since.
 
Following a Tuesday announcement that he failed a Nevada State Athletic Commission-issued drug test, Chael Sonnen (28-14-1 MMA, 7-7 UFC) has retired from MMA competition.

Sonnen used his co-host platform on today’s edition of FOX Sports 1′s “UFC Tonight” to make the announcement, bringing his 17-year career to an abrupt end.

“I want to take an opportunity to officially announcement my retirement from competitive mixed martial arts,” Sonnen said. “I had a great time.

” … I want to thank FOX. I want to thank the leadership of the UFC. I want to thank a man named Bill Brady, who gave me a second wind, if you will. He’s a member of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, and he believed in me at a time when I really needed somebody to, and I owe the second wind of my career to him. I am proud to call him a friend. I also want to thank the most important opponent I’ve ever had. I couldn’t have got here without this dance partner, and that is of course you, Anderson Silva. Thank you for the opportunity. Thank you for the memories. Thank you for the invitation to the barbecue, even though I didn’t take you up on it. “

A random drug test admitted to Sonnen by the NSAC this past month resulted in the 37-year-old testing positive for two banned substances. Sonnen later explained the positive results were a product of him taking fertility medication and to help taper off testosterone-replacement-therapy, which the NSAC banned earlier this year.

According to Sonnen, that medication worked. However, it came at the price of a positive test.

While Sonnen admits his first reaction was a defensive one, he now takes full responsibility for the results.

“I absolutely take responsibility,” Sonnen said. “The one thing when I spoke with (UFC President) Dana White yesterday when Dana White went and spoke with (America’s Pregame host] Mike Hill, he was very clear to say, ‘Chael needed to talk to the commission.’ Now I do agree with that, and I am well aware, as is my management team, that we do need to talk to a commission.

“This was out-of-competition testing. This has never happened to me. I’m only the third athlete ever that’s had to go through this. There’s also a bit of an expectation on my behalf that the commission will understand as I’m transitioning off testosterone as we’ve talked about a number of times. In the meanwhile, my wife and I were having problems with fertility. This is a matter of health, and this is a matter of being a parent and being able to live the next chapter of my life. At no point was there an attempt to slip around the system.”

Even though Sonnen is one of the UFC’s top-drawing fighters and has a tremendous following, he feels the importance of raising a family far exceeds his need to continue his professional career.

“I want to stay within the rules,” Sonnen said. “I don’t fully understand them, and I have to put my health first. I have to put my family first.

“ … There is going to be a day where I’m going to no longer have the title of fighter. That’s the reality. But I don’t ever want there to be the day where I can’t have the title of parent and father and husband. My health has got to come first.”

Sonnen retires from the sport with 43 professional fights and a 28-14-1 record, including a 7-7 mark in the UFC. He fought three times for a UFC title but came up short to former middleweight champ Silva (twice) and reigning light-heavyweight titleholder Jon Jones.

Sonnen’s 35 takedowns landed in middleweight competition are the most in UFC divisional history. His 1,300 total strikes landed at middleweight rank second all-time in the UFC.
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Sonnen retires :(
 
Failed drugs test is now irrelevant pretty much!

Sonnen has retired!

He has so much going on outside of fighting anyway, he's great analyst for the cards... be great to see him on the commentary desk though too! :)
 
It's a shame we didn't get to see the Silva fight. I was really looking forward to seeing Sonnen lie ontop of him for 15 minutes, just to shut him up.
I'll bet any money Wanderlei comes out with a statement saying how Sonnen was too scared to fight him.
 
redmeister said:
You don't need to believe anything he says. The results are public record. Chael Sonnen isn't really the issue. The issue is that the drugs he was busted for are used for PCT and that is why they are banned. They aren't PED's, they are seen as proof of using PEDs. That is why this case is so unique and Chael himself isn't the issue. The point is the commission banned TRT yet didn't put in pace any rules which allow for those with exemptions to safely come off it. You can't disclose a banned substance, which many are suggesting Chael should of. What should have happened is the commission should have foreseen this and put in place new temporary exemptions for people coming off TRT allowing them to use certain drugs for PCT.

Btw, I don't think Chael ever had crazy high testosterone levels. He had a high T/E ratio. This is consistent with those using TRT. It's normal for guys on TRT to have T/E ratios several times higher than average men, but many misunderstood this and think that is the reason he was suspended. He was suspended for not properly disclosing in Nevada. He'd been given TRT exemptions previously and it was well known he was a TRT user. That's why he got a 6 month suspension and not a year. No one within the UFC was shocked to discover he was on TRT, he'd been on it for a few years. TRT was legal then and he would have qualified for an exemption for the Silva fight, as he had for previous fight and fights since.
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Hendo seemed to do just fine... Maybe Chael shouldn't have been accepting fights if he was taking banned substances? But all the bullshit Chael came out with to the media after this failed test is perhaps the most annoying part, especially when lots of people just gobble it up.

The bit I've highlighted is also not true at all, where'd you get that from?
However, the bloodhounds at Cageside tracked down Keith Kizer to get the scoop on Sonnen's history of pre-fight disclosure.

Unfortunately, they came up snake eyes on that roll:

Sonnen fought Nate Marquardt in Nevada this past February, after the Okami fight, so I called Keith Kizer, Executive Director of the Nevada commission. According to Kizer, Sonnen never applied or was approved for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT). Not in February or any of his previous fights in Nevada. Before the Marquardt fight, he applied and was approved for Soma/carisprodol (a muscle relaxer recently banned completely by WWE because it can cause intoxication while others don't and are more effective) for sleep as long as he didn't take it the night before and doxycyline (an antibiotic) for acne.
As Larry Pepe speculated in the fallout of his post-fight drug test, the likelihood that Sonnen was taking steroids seemed less likely than the possibility that he was on Testosterone Replacement Therapy (TRT), which is not uncommon for athletes his age and with his competitive background.
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He was suspended because he didn't tell anyone he was on TRT, who even knows if he was at that point? His levels were 16:1, average males are 1:1. He never did explain why his levels were so high that time, and no, if you're on TRT your levels should not be that high. That is not the point of it.
 
PhilipB said:
Hendo seemed to do just fine... Maybe Chael shouldn't have been accepting fights if he was taking banned substances? But all the bullshit Chael came out with to the media after this failed test is perhaps the most annoying part, especially when lots of people just gobble it up.

The bit I've highlighted is also not true at all, where'd you get that from?

He was suspended because he didn't tell anyone he was on TRT, who even knows if he was at that point? His levels were 16:1, average males are 1:1. He never did explain why his levels were so high that time, and no, if you're on TRT your levels should not be that high. That is not the point of it.
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We don't know if Hendo got tested. The tests are random. Also Chael accepted the fight before the TRT ban. Also the random testing is new. As fans we should just care about clean fighters. I can't get my head around why so many are trying to get annoyed with Chael when he got "caught" taking drugs which demonstrate he's complied with the TRT ban and aren't performance enhancers. If it wasn't Chael this happened to and someone else, there would be a huge fan back lash, as it simply isn't right.

Regardless of what you think of Chael or his past, you have to try and be objective and look at it from a totally neutral point of view. The fact are TRT was legal and Chael was on it when he agreed to do TUF Brazil and fight Wand at the Finale. Then the Wand fight got put back and the TRT ban came in. Also until then, there was no random testing. So it made total sense to come of TRT and do a PCT. There is no point in informing the commission and getting the fight postponed. That helps absolutely no one, the fans least of all. All we should care about it fair play and Chael getting busted is proof that we were going to get that. This whole situation has come about because the commission banned TRT with no warning and then but nothing in place to ensure those on TRT were able to come off it safely. The reality is though, that they themselves weren't the one's doing the tests, so probably didn't think anything was necessary.

As much as you might dislike Chael, you surely have to acknowledge that he wasn't trying to cheat or gain any advantage. Given the circumstances he took the best course of action. People can say things like he shouldn't have accepted fights or informed the commission, but they aren't being realistic. Informing the commission shouldn't have been necessary and he'd committed to fighting Wand well before the TRT ban. This case is totally unique and we wont see anything like it again. Ultimately Chael has been his own worst enemy in this as over the years he's divided opinion so much, that so many people don't want to be fair about this and many just don't trust Chael whilst at the same time don't understand the situation. If you understand what has happened then whether you trust what Chael says or not is irrelevant, as the test results are public record. Hence I said in a previous post that Chael himself isn't really the issue. The issue is the appalling handling of the TRT ban and the total lack of foresight towards how this might effect things.


His T/E ratio was 16.1. That's normal for TRT users, but people get their information from places like Wikipedia which state an average, rather than point out that in the days shortly after injections T/E ratio can be very high. But people think his testosterone levels were high, when they weren't, hence he was banned for non disclosure and for 6 months not 12. Big Foot Silva is an example of a TRT guy who tested positive for high test levels, not just high T/E ratio.
 
redmeister said:
We don't know if Hendo got tested. The tests are random. Also Chael accepted the fight before the TRT ban. Also the random testing is new. As fans we should just care about clean fighters. I can't get my head around why so many are trying to get annoyed with Chael when he got "caught" taking drugs which demonstrate he's complied with the TRT ban and aren't performance enhancers. If it wasn't Chael this happened to and someone else, there would be a huge fan back lash, as it simply isn't right.

Regardless of what you think of Chael or his past, you have to try and be objective and look at it from a totally neutral point of view. The fact are TRT was legal and Chael was on it when he agreed to do TUF Brazil and fight Wand at the Finale. Then the Wand fight got put back and the TRT ban came in. Also until then, there was no random testing. So it made total sense to come of TRT and do a PCT. There is no point in informing the commission and getting the fight postponed. That helps absolutely no one, the fans least of all. All we should care about it fair play and Chael getting busted is proof that we were going to get that. This whole situation has come about because the commission banned TRT with no warning and then but nothing in place to ensure those on TRT were able to come off it safely. The reality is though, that they themselves weren't the one's doing the tests, so probably didn't think anything was necessary.

As much as you might dislike Chael, you surely have to acknowledge that he wasn't trying to cheat or gain any advantage. Given the circumstances he took the best course of action. People can say things like he shouldn't have accepted fights or informed the commission, but they aren't being realistic. Informing the commission shouldn't have been necessary and he'd committed to fighting Wand well before the TRT ban. This case is totally unique and we wont see anything like it again. Ultimately Chael has been his own worst enemy in this as over the years he's divided opinion so much, that so many people don't want to be fair about this and many just don't trust Chael whilst at the same time don't understand the situation. If you understand what has happened then whether you trust what Chael says or not is irrelevant, as the test results are public record. Hence I said in a previous post that Chael himself isn't really the issue. The issue is the appalling handling of the TRT ban and the total lack of foresight towards how this might effect things.


His T/E ratio was 16.1. That's normal for TRT users, but people get their information from places like Wikipedia which state an average, rather than point out that in the days shortly after injections T/E ratio can be very high. But people think his testosterone levels were high, when they weren't, hence he was banned for non disclosure and for 6 months not 12. Big Foot Silva is an example of a TRT guy who tested positive for high test levels, not just high T/E ratio.
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Well, the CEO of the United States Anti-Doping Agency disagrees and saying they are performance enhancing.

Tygart told Yahoo Sports. "The reason (the two drugs in question are banned) why is because they can maximize the effects of testosterone use or other anabolic steroids use, as well as in and of themselves providing a performance-enhancing benefit."

Sonnen hoped to get away with using banned drugs to transition off the TRT by not mentioning it. He could have brought this all out into the open when the TRT ban was issued and gotten an official response. But he knew that response would be that he can't use those two drugs. That's why he didn't ask.

I also don't appreciate him trying to fool people into thinking they're allowed outside competition by the committee, as well as the other lies.
 
Yup he is an idiot and has previous

But I will miss him as he was entertaining and I was looking forward first to him vs Wand and then against Vitor (3 of the dodgiest lads in the sport)

It does make me think about the Pride days (long before I had any interest in MMA) there was little or no testing done in that organisation, surely puts a question mark on all or a lot of the great fighters from that era.

Chael might return in a year or two when it all blows over.
 
redmeister said:
We don't know if Hendo got tested. The tests are random. Also Chael accepted the fight before the TRT ban. Also the random testing is new. As fans we should just care about clean fighters. I can't get my head around why so many are trying to get annoyed with Chael when he got "caught" taking drugs which demonstrate he's complied with the TRT ban and aren't performance enhancers. If it wasn't Chael this happened to and someone else, there would be a huge fan back lash, as it simply isn't right.

Regardless of what you think of Chael or his past, you have to try and be objective and look at it from a totally neutral point of view. The fact are TRT was legal and Chael was on it when he agreed to do TUF Brazil and fight Wand at the Finale. Then the Wand fight got put back and the TRT ban came in. Also until then, there was no random testing. So it made total sense to come of TRT and do a PCT. There is no point in informing the commission and getting the fight postponed. That helps absolutely no one, the fans least of all. All we should care about it fair play and Chael getting busted is proof that we were going to get that. This whole situation has come about because the commission banned TRT with no warning and then but nothing in place to ensure those on TRT were able to come off it safely. The reality is though, that they themselves weren't the one's doing the tests, so probably didn't think anything was necessary.

As much as you might dislike Chael, you surely have to acknowledge that he wasn't trying to cheat or gain any advantage. Given the circumstances he took the best course of action. People can say things like he shouldn't have accepted fights or informed the commission, but they aren't being realistic. Informing the commission shouldn't have been necessary and he'd committed to fighting Wand well before the TRT ban. This case is totally unique and we wont see anything like it again. Ultimately Chael has been his own worst enemy in this as over the years he's divided opinion so much, that so many people don't want to be fair about this and many just don't trust Chael whilst at the same time don't understand the situation. If you understand what has happened then whether you trust what Chael says or not is irrelevant, as the test results are public record. Hence I said in a previous post that Chael himself isn't really the issue. The issue is the appalling handling of the TRT ban and the total lack of foresight towards how this might effect things.


His T/E ratio was 16.1. That's normal for TRT users, but people get their information from places like Wikipedia which state an average, rather than point out that in the days shortly after injections T/E ratio can be very high. But people think his testosterone levels were high, when they weren't, hence he was banned for non disclosure and for 6 months not 12. Big Foot Silva is an example of a TRT guy who tested positive for high test levels, not just high T/E ratio.
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I actually like Chael, I've posted a few videos of him in here, like his appearance on the JRE podcast which was really good. So you can stop with that shit about only people who dislike Chael have a problem with this.

You completely ignored the fact that you were wrong about his first failed test. He didn't have any trt exemptions before that...you keep moving the goalposts. Again I will quote
[/quote]
According to Kizer, Sonnen never applied or was approved for testosterone replacement therapy (TRT).Not in February or any of his previous fights in Nevada. Before the Marquardt fight, he applied and was approved for Soma/carisprodol (a muscle relaxer recently banned completely by WWE because it can cause intoxication while others don't and are more effective) for sleep as long as he didn't take it the night before and doxycyline (an antibiotic) for acne.[/quote]

So why didn't he apply for a TUE before that Silva fight if it was completely legal and he had a legitimate medical condition (hypogonadism)? Hmm...I wonder...

The most annoying thing is the fact that you seem to place no blame on Chael whatsoever and call me biased because I dislike him or some shit.
 
gooDevil said:
Well, the CEO of the United States Anti-Doping Agency disagrees and saying they are performance enhancing.

Tygart told Yahoo Sports. "The reason (the two drugs in question are banned) why is because they can maximize the effects of testosterone use or other anabolic steroids use, as well as in and of themselves providing a performance-enhancing benefit."

Sonnen hoped to get away with using banned drugs to transition off the TRT by not mentioning it. He could have brought this all out into the open when the TRT ban was issued and gotten an official response. But he knew that response would be that he can't use those two drugs. That's why he didn't ask.

I also don't appreciate him trying to fool people into thinking they're allowed outside competition by the committee, as well as the other lies.
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Exactly! He just went into full bullshit spin mode, and the president of the UFC is seen as defending a drug cheat. Not a great look, especially after the way he treated GSP for wanting extra drug tests but I guess we already knew the UFC couldn't really give a shit about PEDs in the sport.
 
PhilipB said:
Don't know a lot about wrestling but isn't he too small? Lesnar and the Rock etc are huge compared to Sonnen.
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Not at all, wrestlers come in all sizes. If Wikipedia is correct, he's 6'2 and 200lbs, which is fine for a technical wrestler, and WWE always pad the numbers anyway, so to them he'd be 6'4, 235lbs, give or take.
 
And his mic work would be a huge advantage

In fact I would love to see him in it, I might start watching it again if he does
 
Be great to see Sonnen in WWE! Never been a fan of this part time schedule stuff though, you can't really put belt on any of these guys... cant build a future around them you know... your either in or your not for me.

But still, certainly be interesting to see him in WWE...

Realistically I can't see it though, he'll probably stick with the TV work going forward...
 
Reckon main event will be a cracker tonight, also interested to see what Arlovskis return will be like. This McDonald and woodly might be a bit of a snore fest

The wiki page right now has Bob sapp vs Bop Sapp in every fight :lol:
 
Here we go! Genuinely can't call this one, Rory has to be weary of that speed and power....hopefully it lives up to my expectations.
 
Complete control, Woodley didn't have a game plan (or if he did, he completely disregarded it), and then just tried to land that one shot, could've fought for a week and he still wouldn't have landed it. Impressive from McDonald but can't help but feel a little disappointed with it as a contest.
 
UFC Fight Night: Te Huna vs. Marquardt (also known as UFC Fight Night 43) is an upcoming mixed martial arts event to be held on June 28, 2014, at Vector Arena in Auckland, New Zealand.[1][2][3]

Main Card (UFC Fight Pass)
Middleweight James Te Huna vs. Nate Marquardt
Heavyweight Soa Palelei vs. Jared Rosholt
Featherweight Hatsu Hioki vs. Charles Oliveira
Welterweight Robert Whittaker vs. Mike Rhodes

Preliminary card (UFC Fight Pass)
Lightweight Jake Matthews vs. Dashon Johnson
Flyweight Richie Vaculik vs. Roldan Sangcha-an
Welterweight Chris Indich vs. Vik Grujic
Welterweight Neil Magny vs. Rodrigo Goiana de Lima
Featherweight Dan Hooker vs. Ian Entwistle
Light Heavyweight Gian Villante vs. Sean O'Connell
 
UFC Fight Night: Swanson vs. Stephens (also known as UFC Fight Night 44) is an upcoming mixed martial arts event to be held on June 28, 2014 at AT&T Center in San Antonio, Texas.[1]

Main Card (Fox Sports 1)
Featherweight Cub Swanson vs. Jeremy Stephens
Welterweight Kelvin Gastelum vs. Nicholas Musoke
Middleweight Cezar Ferreira vs. Andrew Craig
Featherweight Ricardo Lamas vs. Hacran Dias
Middleweight Clint Hester vs. Antonio Braga Neto
Lightweight Joe Ellenberger vs. Bryan Barberena

Preliminary card (Fox Sports 1)
Lightweight Colton Smith vs. Carlos Diego Ferreira
Bantamweight Johnny Bedford vs. Cody Gibson
Middleweight Marcelo Guimarães vs. Andy Enz
Flyweight Ryan Benoit vs. Ray Borg

Preliminary card (UFC Fight Pass)
Heavyweight Oleksiy Oliynyk vs. Anthony Hamilton
 
The amount of MMA I watch now compared to 3 -4 years ago is shocking. It just feels so watered down. I used to watch every UFC event from first fight to last (also Strikeforce and WEC) now I'll just watch the main card most of the time. Looking at those two cards coming up I'm probably interested in the top 3 fights on the New Zealand card, and maybe 3 fights on the other one. I don't see how anyone has enough time to watch all the events in full anymore.

It also lacks the build up it used to, so much so that I can barely tell you where the next fight is going to be an who is on it. Whereas before I'd be anticipating a card weeks before. At the end of the day it doesn't really matter so much for me as I don't have to pay out for PPV's, but man, it must cost a lot to be a UFC fan in America.
 
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