The MMA thread

[Icemav]

You could make a good argument that Gaethje has never truly revealed his wrestling background, but then again Justin has never been the global hype machine that Conor has become, so people generally don't care. When Conor opens his mouth during promotional campaigns, it gives audiences the impression that he's some sort of dominant, multi-faceted UFC fighter, when his results clearly show that he struggles when being exposed to dealing with level changes. If you go back and look at most of round one of the Mendes fight - Chad spent a good portion of it mauling him on the ground, until eventually gassing. This was Conor's first memorable test against a good grappler, and wound up being a harbinger of how he would struggle on the ground in future fights.

It really hasn't been. Aside from Khabib (who wrestle fecks everyone) when else has he struggled on the ground? And please don't say Diaz when he was rocked and retreated to the ground.

I mean the Mendes thing is bizarre. It was the first elite level wrestler he fought with no specific prep for him. He came through it successfully and actually displayed some good talent even then for avoiding take downs.

 

[2cents]

Just watched it. So much for Gaethje the All American wrestler. Fight was only ever gonna end one way but he barely put up a struggle.

Because it creates an irrational expectation among casuals who wind up thinking fighters who are masters of hype are equally good at fighting, when that is clearly not the case.

Did the hype around Gaethje convince you he is a multi-dimensional fighter, when that is clearly not the case?

 

[Icemav]

I don't know how many times I have to say this but McGregor didn't jump up 2 weight classes. His actual weight class is LW. He even said so himself. He was also training to fight RDA at LW. He therefore jumped up 1 weight class. Until that point, he was going down a weight class to featherweight. How is is this so difficult for some people to understand?

He also fight Nate, who is a LW, Nate was also fighting a weight class above with zero camp until he got the call.

I'm terms of how McGregor would do against other gatekeepers at LW? With the sample size, we simply don't know.

Despite winning the belt, he is far less accomplished than the likes of Ferguson, Gaethje, Poirier etc at LW.

He may spark these guys out or tap out to them. There's no way of knowing until he decides to be more active.

I'm not a McGregor hater or anything but blindly making claims and excuses for him is something that gets on my nerves.

He's a very good striker.
He was phenomenal at featherweight.

Above featherweight, he's just another guy until he proves otherwise.

When you move up from one weight class where you have been previously fighting to another, be it boxing or MMA, its called moving up a weight class. Conversely if you go down its said you are moving down or dropping down a weight class. Last week of the prep it was decided Conor would move up 2 weight classes instead of 1.

The lack of weight cut for Nate was a huge advantage especially with the late call up. Doesn't need explaining.

Yes we will probably never know about how he fairs against other gatekeepers at 155. I think pretty well though Conor would never have to go through them anyway. Nate was a unique case because of money. Of the top contenders vs prime Conor, Ferguson he annihilates imo, sitting duck in the same way Gaethje and Lando put it on him but far worse. Gaethje would be interesting but again good chance of being lopsided because he is not an offensive wrestler. Poirier the renaissance man? Has a chance to win of course but he wouldn't be the betting favorite and its not like any version of Dustin was better than the Conor that fought Alvarez.

 

[JPRouve]

Just watched it. So much for Gaethje the All American wrestler. Fight was only ever gonna end one way but he barely put up a struggle.



Did the hype around Gaethje convince you he is a multi-dimensional fighter, when that is clearly not the case?

He maybe an all-american but Khabib is an all-Nurmagomedov wrestler.

On a serious note Khabib wrestling is extremely high level, I would say that only olympic wrestlers would bother or dominate him. An other thing that people may have noticed when they were trading punches, Khabib tested Justin during the first round, several times he put his hand behind Justin's head and maintained him low which is a wrestling move and Justin didn't manage to neutralize it quickly.

 

[Raoul]

Just watched it. So much for Gaethje the All American wrestler. Fight was only ever gonna end one way but he barely put up a struggle.



Did the hype around Gaethje convince you he is a multi-dimensional fighter, when that is clearly not the case?

There is no hype around Gaethje in contrast to the ridiculous amount of hyper McGregor generated over the past 5 years. Gaethje was known as a wrestler, DC was known as a wrestler, Chad Mendes was known as a wrestler, as are several others. None of them generate the levels of mindbendingly irrational hype as McGregor does, which is why he receives far more scrutiny on the topic.

 

[cyberman]

There is no hype around Gaethje in contrast to the ridiculous amount of hyper McGregor generated over the past 5 years. Gaethje was known as a wrestler, DC was known as a wrestler, Chad Mendes was known as a wrestler, as are several others. None of them generate the levels of mindbendingly irrational hype as McGregor does, which is why he receives far more scrutiny on the topic.

As it stands Conor has lost against a stand in fighter which was avenged and against the greatest MMA fighter of all time. Plus he has not only won the rest of those fights but won them well.
He couldn't do any better.

 

[Icemav]

Why is hype relevant? You said Justin is more multi dimensional. Why is he? He’s a striker. He has openly admitted that he doesn’t like to wrestle because it’s tiring. He also hasn’t shown a good ground game in his MMA career. He looked more lost on the ground against Khabib than Conor did and I don’t think he has a good ground game either.

All fighters will try and utilise what they are best at... for Conor or Justin, that’s striking. For Khabib, he wants to take you down. Khabib will go down as one of the greatest ever but his striking is nothing more than good. It doesn’t matter though because he will take you down and impose his style completely.

Very good point there. Khabib is as you say just a good striker but in a way he is exceptional at certain aspects of striking because he has perfected guiding the fight towards his unparalleled strength on the ground.... in the sense that his striking defense and awareness is very good, he can pressure brilliantly, set up take downs brilliantly, and essentially control the Octagon reducing his chances of getting knocked out and increase his ability to take down. I am trying to make the same point with Conor that although only good at grappling, he excels at certain aspects which allows him to dictate the fight and guide towards that deadly left of his.

 

[2cents]

There is no hype around Gaethje in contrast to the ridiculous amount of hyper McGregor generated over the past 5 years. Gaethje was known as a wrestler, DC was known as a wrestler, Chad Mendes was known as a wrestler, as are several others. None of them generate the levels of mindbendingly irrational hype as McGregor does, which is why he receives far more scrutiny on the topic.

There has certainly been a lot of talk about the potential difficulties Gaethje might pose for Khabib due to his wrestling background.

But in any case, you have claimed that Gaethje is a much more multi-dimensional fighter than McGregor. If not the hype, then what has convinced you of this?

 

[Raoul]

There has certainly been a lot of talk about the potential difficulties Gaethje might pose for Khabib due to his wrestling background.

But in any case, you have claimed that Gaethje is a much more multi-dimensional fighter than McGregor. If not the hype, then what has convinced you of this?

I don't think he is (if I said it before, then that was a mistake). He still has all his work ahead of him in terms of showing his wrestling skills he had in college. Ferguson, on the other hand, has nothing to prove in this regard.

 

[2cents]

I don't think he is (if I said it before, then that was a mistake). He still has all his work ahead of him in terms of showing his wrestling skills he had in college. Ferguson, on the other hand, has nothing to prove in this regard.

You said it less than six hours ago.

 

[Raoul]

You said it less than six hours ago.

I was thinking of Ferguson at the time.

 

[2cents]

I was thinking of Ferguson at the time.

Not a chance. Gaethje and Conor would be a good fight since their styles match up well. Conor clearly has no ground game to deal with anything of Khabib’s caliber, so once it goes to the ground it’s over. Gaethje , Poirier, and Ferguson are much more multi dimensional than Conor.

 

[Raoul]

Excellent work. Well spotted. One point for you.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

When you move up from one weight class where you have been previously fighting to another, be it boxing or MMA, its called moving up a weight class. Conversely if you go down its said you are moving down or dropping down a weight class. Last week of the prep it was decided Conor would move up 2 weight classes instead of 1.

The lack of weight cut for Nate was a huge advantage especially with the late call up. Doesn't need explaining.

Yes we will probably never know about how he fairs against other gatekeepers at 155. I think pretty well though Conor would never have to go through them anyway. Nate was a unique case because of money. Of the top contenders vs prime Conor, Ferguson he annihilates imo, sitting duck in the same way Gaethje and Lando put it on him but far worse. Gaethje would be interesting but again good chance of being lopsided because he is not an offensive wrestler. Poirier the renaissance man? Has a chance to win of course but he wouldn't be the betting favorite and its not like any version of Dustin was better than the Conor that fought Alvarez.

You can use technicalities but we all know he's a natural LW, especially as he's said it himself and he fought a guy whose also a natural LW. Saying he "jumped up two weight classes" is something people do to add sprinkle to his achievement. If you want to do that then fair enough.

As for Nate having advantage for no weight cut after getting the fight late, surely McGregor didn't need to weight cut either when it was announced it will be WW fight?

As for your final point, I think you're doing way too much MMA gymnastics, especially as you yourself said styles make fights (I think you said that?).

Ferguson does get dropped but he's durable. If McGregor can't finish him quick, he'll have the same fate as he did against Diaz. Ferguson can also take him down and choke him out. It's not as clear cut as you make it sound.

Gaethje isn't an offensive wrestler but that's not the only way to win. Gaethje hits hard and has a good gas tank and is also durable. Against, McGregor, Connor would be favourite for the first two rounds then the tables would turn. Not as clear cut as you make it.

As for Poirier, he's not the same fighter at LW as he was at FW. He was even close to submitting Khabib. It would not be the same fighter as before.

You're comparing against prime McGregor... So compare to prime versions of these fighters and you'll see that these fights can go either way.

Like I said, no way of knowing until it happens.

 

[RedTiger]

Anyone else excited for LW with Khabib retiring?

Not really. The one good thing that will happen is that Gaethje will concentrate on his ground game now and hopefully become an even more rounded fighter. Other than that the only other thing to look forward to is perhaps Chandler.

 

[Berbaclass]

You can use technicalities but we all know he's a natural LW, especially as he's said it himself and he fought a guy whose also a natural LW. Saying he "jumped up two weight classes" is something people do to add sprinkle to his achievement. If you want to do that then fair enough.

As for Nate having advantage for no weight cut after getting the fight late, surely McGregor didn't need to weight cut either when it was announced it will be WW fight?

As for your final point, I think you're doing way too much MMA gymnastics, especially as you yourself said styles make fights (I think you said that?).

Ferguson does get dropped but he's durable. If McGregor can't finish him quick, he'll have the same fate as he did against Diaz. Ferguson can also take him down and choke him out. It's not as clear cut as you make it sound.

Gaethje isn't an offensive wrestler but that's not the only way to win. Gaethje hits hard and has a good gas tank and is also durable. Against, McGregor, Connor would be favourite for the first two rounds then the tables would turn. Not as clear cut as you make it.

As for Poirier, he's not the same fighter at LW as he was at FW. He was even close to submitting Khabib. It would not be the same fighter as before.

You're comparing against prime McGregor... So compare to prime versions of these fighters and you'll see that these fights can go either way.

Like I said, no way of knowing until it happens.

Nate was easily 15 pounds heavier on fight night. That's a big advantage.

 

[Raoul]

I also thought, winning the middleweight title against Bisping in the manner and the circumstances was awesome.

I'd say.

Jon Jones
GSP
Khabib
Nunes
Mighty Mouse

Hard to really put them into order but I'd be inclined to say that Jonny Bones is #1.

Peak Jon Jones was something else. Tough to decide between him, Khabib, and GSP.

 

[Raoul]

Nate was easily 15 pounds heavier on fight night. That's a big advantage.

He was also smoking weed on a boat in Cabo when he got the call to fight Conor, so whatever extra weight he was carrying wasn't exactly fight hardened muscle.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Nate was easily 15 pounds heavier on fight night. That's a big advantage.

Yeah but McGregor was in camp whilst Nate was getting stoned on a boat in Cabo. There's two sides to that coin.

Peak Jon Jones was something else. Tough to decide between him, Khabib, and GSP.

I would have said Jones but the drug stuff and his performances since his last drug scandal takes shine away from his résumé.

 

[Berbaclass]

He was also smoking weed on a boat in Cabo when he got the call to fight Conor, so whatever extra weight he was carrying wasn't exactly fight hardened muscle.

Must have been good weed to make him forget how to fight.

 

[cyberman]

Not really. The one good thing that will happen is that Gaethje will concentrate on his ground game now and hopefully become an even more rounded fighter. Other than that the only other thing to look forward to is perhaps Chandler.

There isnt really any reason to be better on the ground. Everybody mostly stands and bangs these days.

 

[Raoul]

Not really. The one good thing that will happen is that Gaethje will concentrate on his ground game now and hopefully become an even more rounded fighter. Other than that the only other thing to look forward to is perhaps Chandler.

Not sure how much time he will invest in it given the current opposition in the division. He went into last night with a winning strategy that would've had a good chance of success against any other opponent other than Khabib, who just happened to be in GOAT mode last night. If Justin was fighting anyone else, the leg kicks would've been debilitating and eventually led to some punches to the head.

 

[JPRouve]

There isnt really any reason to be better on the ground. Everybody mostly stands and bangs these days.

Isn't that a perfect reason to be better on the ground? Smash everyone on the ground.

 

[Icemav]

You can use technicalities but we all know he's a natural LW, especially as he's said it himself and he fought a guy whose also a natural LW. Saying he "jumped up two weight classes" is something people do to add sprinkle to his achievement. If you want to do that then fair enough.

As for Nate having advantage for no weight cut after getting the fight late, surely McGregor didn't need to weight cut either when it was announced it will be WW fight?

As for your final point, I think you're doing way too much MMA gymnastics, especially as you yourself said styles make fights (I think you said that?).

Ferguson does get dropped but he's durable. If McGregor can't finish him quick, he'll have the same fate as he did against Diaz. Ferguson can also take him down and choke him out. It's not as clear cut as you make it sound.

Gaethje isn't an offensive wrestler but that's not the only way to win. Gaethje hits hard and has a good gas tank and is also durable. Against, McGregor, Connor would be favourite for the first two rounds then the tables would turn. Not as clear cut as you make it.

As for Poirier, he's not the same fighter at LW as he was at FW. He was even close to submitting Khabib. It would not be the same fighter as before.

You're comparing against prime McGregor... So compare to prime versions of these fighters and you'll see that these fights can go either way.

Like I said, no way of knowing until it happens.

If you don't want to talk about technicalities then leave the subject alone. He fought seven fights in a row at featherweight and was moving up to a weight he hadn't fought at for 4 years and his camp prep was geared towards 155 until a week out and then he hit the steak and carbs apparently. These things are normally meticulously planned so yes it has an impact.

Many of Conor's fight have this fascinating feeling that they can go either way. A bit like Ali in some of his seminal fights where he was sometimes the underdog. Conor was supposed to get smashed by Aldo, the p4p number 1 champ unbeaten for 10 years, similar to Ali vs Liston where Ali was supposed to get crushed by the champ. Alvarez was also supposed to give him a torrid time. Dos Anjos before him. Nate was supposed to be easy. Actually every late replacement fight is supposed to be easy according to most fans (except it isn't, Bisping late replacement versus Rockhold, no camp, new champ, Rockhold mega mega mega chump?). I've heard it all really. Conor does have holes in his game, specifically his gas tank, that makes him vulnerable in many matchups but the feeling is the best version of Conor should beat these guys unless they pull out a great performance and an upset. The most likely being Ferguson because Conor exhausts himself smashing his face in worse than what Gaethje did. Gaethje on the other hand is no more durable than Alvarez and was stopped by both Eddie and Poirier so its not like the guy is unbreakable.

But I understand the hype there used to be around Conor and fast tracking has always led to this "how good is he really?", "does he deserve it?", "will he get exposed?". All valid. Still not sure we know.

 

[RedTiger]

There isnt really any reason to be better on the ground. Everybody mostly stands and bangs these days.

I believe yesterday's very quick triangle proved the importance of having a rounded octagon game for Gaethje. Gaethje is a very proactive fighter who likes to implement his style on the opponent and make them adjust their style for him. When the lack of a decent ground game means that it effects his dominant stand up style due to a lack of belief in his own ability then he needs to work on it, if not for the added dimension then at least for his own mental strength.

 

[sammsky1]

Its says a lot that loads of Irish people were delighted that he smeshed "our boy". I remember thinking "Please do!" when he said that line. We will bandwagon on any sporting success but it speaks volumes that there is an almost national rolling of the eyes towards Conor McGregor.

Do you think he will regain lost Irish fans if he manages to start winning again and stops with the trash talk?
Or are his many many sins terminal in terms of public perception?

 

[sammsky1]

When has Justin Gaethje? Someone you consider more multi dimensional... despite a real lack of evidence of anything other than striking in his career.

That’s such false revisionism. Everyone was talking up Gaethje’s ‘American wrestling’ prowess before the fight.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

If you don't want to talk about technicalities then leave the subject alone. He fought seven fights in a row at featherweight and was moving up to a weight he hadn't fought at for 4 years and his camp prep was geared towards 155 until a week out and then he hit the steak and carbs apparently. These things are normally meticulously planned so yes it has an impact.

Many of Conor's fight have this fascinating feeling that they can go either way. A bit like Ali in some of his seminal fights where he was sometimes the underdog. Conor was supposed to get smashed by Aldo, the p4p number 1 champ unbeaten for 10 years, similar to Ali vs Liston where Ali was supposed to get crushed by the champ. Alvarez was also supposed to give him a torrid time. Dos Anjos before him. Nate was supposed to be easy. Actually every late replacement fight is supposed to be easy according to most fans (except it isn't, Bisping late replacement versus Rockhold, no camp, new champ, Rockhold mega mega mega chump?). I've heard it all really. Conor does have holes in his game, specifically his gas tank, that makes him vulnerable in many matchups but the feeling is the best version of Conor should beat these guys unless they pull out a great performance and an upset. The most likely being Ferguson because Conor exhausts himself smashing his face in worse than what Gaethje did. Gaethje on the other hand is no more durable than Alvarez and was stopped by both Eddie and Poirier so its not like the guy is unbreakable.

But I understand the hype there used to be around Conor and fast tracking has always led to this "how good is he really?", "does he deserve it?", "will he get exposed?". All valid. Still not sure we know.

If you want to follow technicalities then don't go banging on about McGregor's power, which only looked Ngannou-like fighting people below his natural weight class. I'm not sure you did, but many do.

As for McGregor fights seeming 50/50, it just shows that McGregor has big holes in his game, which is why this happens.

McGregor great striker, can he handle Khabib wrestling?

McGregor so dangerous at the start of a fight, but can he last beyond round 2 against Ferguson?

Etc. My point still stands, he's in the shuffle at LW. Just like the rest of them, he has strengths and weaknesses like the rest of them.

This is where Khabib stood out. His striking wasn't the best but it was what it needed to be to compliment his actual strength. It would take something special to beat him.

 

[Icemav]

That’s such false revisionism. Everyone was talking up Gaethje’s ‘American wrestling’ prowess before the fight.

They were talking up that he is a top wrestler who never uses it and can he be the guy to stuff Khabib's take downs.

 

[Shane88]

Do you think he will regain lost Irish fans if he manages to start winning again and stops with the trash talk?
Or are his many many sins terminal in terms of public perception?

Unlikely. He will always have his core fanbase here, most of whom answer any criticism of him with "He makes more money than you!"

I think to the vast majority of Irish people he is considered a loudmouth scumbag and there is little to no pride in his achievements.

 

[cyberman]

I believe yesterday's very quick triangle proved the importance of having a rounded octagon game for Gaethje. Gaethje is a very proactive fighter who likes to implement his style on the opponent and make them adjust their style for him. When the lack of a decent ground game means that it effects his dominant stand up style due to a lack of belief in his own ability then he needs to work on it, if not for the added dimension then at least for his own mental strength.

Yeah but thats Khabib. Look at the wrestlers, all of them have abandoned any idea of taking it to the ground.
Justin, Romero and DC are probably the best wrestlers in mma today and all dont touch it. Its all about on the feet. Even Kahab kept it standing for 99 percent of the fight last night.

 

[GiddyUp]

Do you think he will regain lost Irish fans if he manages to start winning again and stops with the trash talk?
Or are his many many sins terminal in terms of public perception?

I don't think he can help himself. Controversy will follow him everywhere and he has a mouth on him. It was all a bit WWE with him but punching that old guy because he didn't want some shite whiskey in the middle of the day was a fecking disgrace.

 

[Icemav]

If you want to follow technicalities then don't go banging on about McGregor's power, which only looked Ngannou-like fighting people below his natural weight class. I'm not sure you did, but many do.

As for McGregor fights seeming 50/50, it just shows that McGregor has big holes in his game, which is why this happens.

McGregor great striker, can he handle Khabib wrestling?

McGregor so dangerous at the start of a fight, but can he last beyond round 2 against Ferguson?

Etc. My point still stands, he's in the shuffle at LW. Just like the rest of them, he has strengths and weaknesses like the rest of them.

This is where Khabib stood out. His striking wasn't the best but it was what it needed to be to compliment his actual strength. It would take something special to beat him.

I didn't. We were talking weight classes.

But you are right we don't know how good Conor is at Lightweight and you can only judge on resume. I imagine if he had dedicated himself to it he would have done ok but 3 fights is not enough. His main strength seemed better than the other competitors' and he showed against Alavarez, a big Diaz, and Cowboy that he can sit these guys down easy enough.

Khabib dominated his weightclass. Enough said.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

I didn't. We were talking weight classes.

But you are right we don't know how good Conor is at Lightweight and you can only judge on resume. I imagine if he had dedicated himself to it he would have done ok but 3 fights is not enough. His main strength seemed better than the other competitors' and he showed against Alavarez, a big Diaz, and Cowboy that he can sit these guys down easy enough.

Khabib dominated his weightclass. Enough said.

My bad, must have been someone else.

The thing that frustrates me about McGregor is his potential. I would have loved to see him in his prime fighting these killers at LW, then conversations like this wouldn't even be needed.

Doubt it will ever happen I guess...

 

[Alemar]

Just checked stats: McGregor has 22 wins and 4 losses. Even Gaethje and Tony Ferguson have better results. What’s an obsession with McGregor is hard to understand

 

[RedTiger]

I think to the vast majority of Irish people he is considered a loudmouth scumbag and there is little to no pride in his achievements.

I dont want to turn the thread into an ethno-political screed, but the truth is that Conors brash arrogance is the antithesis of the Irish personna of humbleness and self depreciation. He's frankly an embarrassment to the Irish people which he didn't need to be. In my opinion the Irish people are the most liked "european" people to the rest of the world. That's all because they suffered the same under colonialism as everyone else and the were treated like subhuman trash like everyone else. Comor could've ridden that Irish popularity into the sunset but instead he decided to be a xenophobic twat.

 

[2cents]

Do you think he will regain lost Irish fans if he manages to start winning again and stops with the trash talk?
Or are his many many sins terminal in terms of public perception?

I don’t see him as capable of the kind of turnaround required, he is who he is.

Unfortunately he’ll retain a small cadre of supporters here no matter what, there’s a subset of McGregor wannabees who have invested too much of their self-image in him to let go easily. For the rest of us who enjoyed the ride while it lasted - and for a small, generally humble nations like ours, it was a wild and entertaining ride - he’s gone way beyond the pale. Just wish he’d feck off permanently to America, because he’s gonna be in our faces for years to come, one way or another.

 

[2cents]

the truth is that Conors brash arrogance is the antithesis of the Irish personna of humbleness and self depreciation

That was initially part of the attraction of McGregor for us. We’re looked upon as a humble little nation who sometimes punch above our weight but are ultimately plucky losers. This is the image that drives Roy Keane to despair. In the aftermath of a pretty devastating economic collapse, it was in some ways quite refreshing to see a brash Dub telling the world to suck his big Irish balls and then going out and knocking people out.

 

[sammsky1]

Unlikely. He will always have his core fanbase here, most of whom answer any criticism of him with "He makes more money than you!"
I think to the vast majority of Irish people he is considered a loudmouth scumbag and there is little to no pride in his achievements.

I don't think he can help himself. Controversy will follow him everywhere and he has a mouth on him. It was all a bit WWE with him but punching that old guy because he didn't want some shite whiskey in the middle of the day was a fecking disgrace.

I don’t see him as capable of the kind of turnaround required, he is who he is.
Unfortunately he’ll retain a small cadre of supporters here no matter what, there’s a subset of McGregor wannabees who have invested too much of their self-image in him to let go easily. For the rest of us who enjoyed the ride while it lasted - and for a small, generally humble nations like ours, it was a wild and entertaining ride - he’s gone way beyond the pale. Just wish he’d feck off permanently to America, because he’s gonna be in our faces for years to come, one way or another.

Does Conar know that his public perception is so bi-polar, and that many of his countrymen despise him as a cnut? And that its because of his many illegal crimes and misdemeanours? Does he even care?

The few people I knew who had serious and heavy cocaine addictions seemed to also undergo permanent personality changes. I suspect the highs and destructive lows during comedown from such a heavy addiction would take your mind into depressive areas the rest of us never experience.

All of his rape accusations and other despicable character traits seem to have started from the omnipotence he felt during the Mayweather experience. Add the heavy cocaine habit, befriending Irish mafia and narcissistic whisky selling .... I can't see how he could ever regain his former personality. And that even assumes that he wants to.

I noticed that he has employed Tony Robbins, famous for the power of positive self affirmation. That would explain his recent tweets trying to delude himself that he actually 'won' his fight vs Khabib and got 'unlucky' to fall for the choke. I know people who have had the full 'Robbins experience' and seen how his methods have transformed their lives. If Robbins succeeds, McGregor would be his must publicly successful transformation ever, am sure they are recording progress for the Netflix blockbuster. So who know, maybe we will see St Mcgregor of Ireland as his final avatar?

 

[sullydnl]

I dont want to turn the thread into an ethno-political screed, but the truth is that Conors brash arrogance is the antithesis of the Irish personna of humbleness and self depreciation. He's frankly an embarrassment to the Irish people which he didn't need to be. In my opinion the Irish people are the most liked "european" people to the rest of the world. That's all because they suffered the same under colonialism as everyone else and the were treated like subhuman trash like everyone else. Comor could've ridden that Irish popularity into the sunset but instead he decided to be a xenophobic twat.

That was part of the initial attraction with McGregor too though and why he initially built up a cult-like following.

You mention humbleness and self-deprecation but the negative flip aide of that is a sense of inferiority and a lack of ambition, especially when applied to Irish sport. So for a younger generation (who grew up in a prosperous country with less of the hang-ups of prior generations) it was refreshing to see an Irish athlete unabashedly aim for the top, hold himself to the highest standards in his sport and have the confidence to openly declare he would reach those heights. Even more so as he actually did it. If he had conformed to the more traditional Irish persona then he likely wouldn't have attracted that same ferocity of fandom.

But a fundamental shift happened around the time of the Mayweather fight. Public perception shifted further away from the idea of him as an arrogant underdog to a more accurate perception of him as a successful bully, his sporting achievements diminished and his behaviour got worse and worse until it became more and more difficult to see him as anything other than a coked-up scumbag.

If he had just been brash and arrrogant (like a more aggressive Zlatan, say) then he'd have been able to maintain a certain attraction and grudging respect even as he became succesful but at this point he isn't going to regain that status again. I'm sure he'll always have a small sycophantic following but he's widely disliked in the country at this point and that isn't going to change.