The MMA thread

[Icemav]

I rate Conor’s standup striking as some of best in UFC. Likewise, I rate every other aspect of his MMA game as poor to average. So what you get at the end of the day is exactly what we’ve seen with Conor - a great striker, the GOAT of self-promotion and punching old men in pubs, and a highly flawed mixed martial artist who still hasn’t taken the time and effort to develop a high quality ground game.

You rating every other aspect of his MMA game as poor to average is incorrect. He was late to the ground game but it has developed hugely in his career and he steers fights to his vast advantages.

However I do agree he is a flawed MMA fighter. Very high risk and high reward style of fighting and match making. Conor as we know can be beaten and has a style where he could be caught becausw of the risk taking. Or most likely he destroys you and makes millions doing it.

Khabib is much more of a rock solid and bullet proof style. Both big characters who towered over everyone else in the FW and LW division and ultimately Khabib won the war. Conor blew his chance and chose boxing and 100million.

 

[Raoul]

You rating every other aspect of his MMA game as poor to average is incorrect. He was late to the ground game but it has developed hugely in his career....

If this were true he wouldn’t have lost when taken to the ground in recent years.

 

[Fortitude]

There's lots mate. I feel like putting in an exhaustive list is doing disservice to lots of other great fighters. I agree about DC and Fedor. You could put Valentina there too. We can all agree that Khabib is one of the best to ever do it and that's good enough.

If we're being super real about it. DJ is the perfect fighter. Flawless. A million miles ahead of everyone else. Problem is, nobody cares because of his weight class.

In terms of pedigree, it's Bones. The guy came in as a young prodigy, took on everyone, and utterly dominated until his ego consumed him and all the other shite followed.

Silva and GSP

Then a bunched group that are harder to separate because of different pros and cons.

 

[sammsky1]

Not last two fights - meant to say two of his last 5 fights.

Also, Chad Mini Mendes, who took his fight with Conor on a couple of weeks notice, took him down within seconds and nearly beat him. Then a couple of years later Nate chokes him out, then a couple of years later Khabib chokes him out. The common thread being that Conor is poor on the ground and generally a tap machine.

If you are above the age of 11 then you should really be embarrassed calling McGregor McTap.
If you don't like the man then that is fine but seriously if the best insult you have is that then you are either 11 or you got dropped on your head as a child .
McGregor brought the sport to the masses he will go down as a UFC legend and rightly so .

@Tel074 Looking forward to you slating @Raoul on this too for hurting your feeling about 'the tapper'. How old do you think he is?

 

[Raoul]

Watch until the end. Khabib was bang on about Conor being a tap machine, which was proven in the Octagon days after this interview.

 

[sammsky1]

People are still arguing Mcgregor could trouble Khabib? Big lols

 

[Berbaclass]

Agree he did well considering. The guy lost his focus and discipline and turned into a complete C@nt. He used to engaged is psychological warfare before fights but the racist xenophobic personal bile he was spewing was shameful. Nothing clever about it at all and he got deservedly humbled, and this is coming from a fan of Conor. Live by the sword, die by the sword, and ultimately the money went to his head.

My only regret is that we did not see the best of Mcgregor. I think if he was in the zone like he was post Alvarez we may have seen something special.

Conor is a great fighter and was a phenomenom but he is not an all time great. Mayweather made way more money but never went on coke and booze binges and descended into scumminess. It is what it is though. Ultimately its the fans that have missed out a bit.

I think it’s well known that Mayweather did just that isn’t it? Not the coke or booze but scumminess.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

You rating every other aspect of his MMA game as poor to average is incorrect. He was late to the ground game but it has developed hugely in his career and he steers fights to his vast advantages.

However I do agree he is a flawed MMA fighter. Very high risk and high reward style of fighting and match making. Conor as we know can be beaten and has a style where he could be caught becausw of the risk taking. Or most likely he destroys you and makes millions doing it.

Khabib is much more of a rock solid and bullet proof style. Both big characters who towered over everyone else in the FW and LW division and ultimately Khabib won the war. Conor blew his chance and chose boxing and 100million.

This is what I don't get... How did McGregor tower over the LW division? Unless your simply saying holding the belt is towering over the division? Or you're saying McGregor towered over featherweight.

He's had three figures in that LW division. Won 2 and lost 1. That's not towering over anything.

 

[Chief123]

Reading through this morning having a laugh some of the posts on Khabib are some weird shit. Like some odd fan fiction of what they dream someone is like.



Rather live on the streets This is a weird view.



This is just a really weird statement. Its how people speak like they know the guy and have just got it in their head he can do no wrong and is an angel. In fact there was a post saying "there's YouTube videos of him..." and how humble, modest etc he is. As if a YouTube video is in no way edited in his favour. There's also YouTube videos of him being a cnut to homeless people and hanging around with terrorists (and he takes money off them Mr Frugal himself) this narrative that goes on is really odd, if you like him fair enough but he's hardly the nicest guy in the world.



Yeah the McGregor bit is always weird and then the same comments appear from people who don't like him "McGregor is desperate to stay relevant" surely completely aware by commenting on him them same people are making him relevant still? Mayweather became a billionaire targeting them people.

As for the fights went the way I thought they would. Hopefully Whittaker is better prepared for Adesanya and there is something annoying about a fighter retiring champion. I hope they'd set up a tournament so we get 3 top level fights but I imagine it does go to the winner of Connor vs Poirier now.

Your whole post was hilarious. Salt is real.

You’ve just laughed at everyone who said he’s a humble guy even though they don’t know him.

And then you state “he’s hardly the nicest guy in the world” when you don’t know him either.

Genius.

 

[Raoul]

I think Khabib comes back for one more at some point - probably against GSP

 

[Icemav]

If this were true he wouldn’t have lost when taken to the ground in recent years.

Don't know why I bothered typing what I did. I gave my rationale. Its all there if you care to read it. Conor does not lose everytime it goes to the ground. He was submitted by Nate after being rocked by strikes and was ground down by Khabib, the best ever to do it. Again whatever point you are trying to make is so simplified. Conor submitted by Khabib = ground game not improving. Anyway you spoke about all other facets of his game. He has elite tdd. He defensive jiu jitsu is excellent. His positional ground control. His ability to stand back up after being taken down. His control against the fence.

He is not poor or average at these. All this compliment his striking. What he is not is an offensive wrestler or submission expert.

 

[Shane88]

Its says a lot that loads of Irish people were delighted that he smeshed "our boy". I remember thinking "Please do!" when he said that line. We will bandwagon on any sporting success but it speaks volumes that there is an almost national rolling of the eyes towards Conor McGregor.

 

[Icemav]

I think it’s well known that Mayweather did just that isn’t it? Not the coke or booze but scumminess.

My point was that Mayweather has always been a true pro who took care of his body and was fully focused on being one of the greatest boxers ever even after the dosh came rolling in. Thats why he is easily the best of his generation.

 

[Icemav]

This is what I don't get... How did McGregor tower over the LW division? Unless your simply saying holding the belt is towering over the division? Or you're saying McGregor towered over featherweight.

He's had three figures in that LW division. Won 2 and lost 1. That's not towering over anything.

Ok.

 

[Raoul]

Don't know why I bothered typing what I did. I gave my rationale. Its all there if you care to read it. Conor does not lose everytime it goes to the ground. He was submitted by Nate after being rocked by strikes and was ground down by Khabib, the best ever to do it. Again whatever point you are trying to make is so simplified. Conor submitted by Khabib = ground game not improving. Anyway you spoke about all other facets of his game. He has elite tdd. He defensive jiu jitsu is excellent. His positional ground control. His ability to stand back up after being taken down. His control against the fence.

He is not poor or average at these. All this compliment his striking. What he is not is an offensive wrestler or submission expert.

You still haven't proven why he isn't better than average on the ground. When has he ever done anything remotely impressive in any area of MMA other than standup striking ?

 

[Berbaclass]

Its says a lot that loads of Irish people were delighted that he smeshed "our boy". I remember thinking "Please do!" when he said that line. We will bandwagon on any sporting success but it speaks volumes that there is an almost national rolling of the eyes towards Conor McGregor.

That's purely because he's a massive cnut though. Nothing to do with what he's done in the octagon.

 

[Berbaclass]

You still haven't proven why he isn't better than average on the ground. When has he ever done anything remotely impressive in any area of MMA other than standup striking ?

I think you're generalising way too much here. Of course he's done things that are impressive besides striking, he was the champ champ...

You don't get to that point without being an elite level athlete.

 

[Icemav]

You still haven't proven why he isn't better than average on the ground. When has he ever done anything remotely impressive in any area of MMA other than standup striking ?

expand...

"I rate Conor’s standup striking as some of best in UFC. Likewise, I rate every other aspect of his MMA game as poor to average."

I just listed and explained the other parts of his game that are better than average. Thats all I've got mate. You can keep asking. And I can can keep writing my opinion answering your question. Not sure I can be much clearer.

 

[Raoul]

I think you're generalising way too much here. Of course he's done things that are impressive besides striking, he was the champ champ...

What specifically has he done ? His KO of Aldo was impressive, he got humiliated against Nate, then got a decision in the rematch, then faced Alvarez (again an impressive standup performance), then once again got schooled on the ground by Khabib. He then fought a declining Cerone as a rehabilitation fight and wound up winning by way of shoulder strikes. It would appear everything he has done well has been on his feet and everything that has worked against him took place on the ground.

 

[Raoul]

"I rate Conor’s standup striking as some of best in UFC. Likewise, I rate every other aspect of his MMA game as poor to average."

I just listed and explained the other parts of his game that are better than average. Thats all I've got mate. You can keep asking. And I can can keep writing my opinion answering your question. Not sure I can be much clearer.

All you said is stuff like "you're incorrect" and "he is not poor to average at these". Where are the specific, tangible examples McGregor has demonstrated that back up any of your generic claims ?

 

[Oggmonster]

Your whole post was hilarious. Salt is real.

You’ve just laughed at everyone who said he’s a humble guy even though they don’t know him.

And then you state “he’s hardly the nicest guy in the world” when you don’t know him either.

Genius.

Salt? I don't mind khabib at all, one of best fighters just think this thing people do with him where they pretend they know him is weird.

He'd rather be homeless than go against his word to his mum? OK then...if people genuinely believe that they're just odd.

 

[sammsky1]

Anyone else excited for LW with Khabib retiring?

Battle of the losers. Boring.

onto the Adesanya train now

 

[Berbaclass]

What specifically has he done ? His KO of Aldo was impressive, he got humiliated against Nate, then got a decision in the rematch, then faced Alvarez (again an impressive standup performance), then once again got schooled on the ground by Khabib. He then fought a declining Cerone as a rehabilitation fight and wound up winning by way of shoulder strikes. It would appear everything he has done well has been on his feet and everything that has worked against him took place on the ground.

Look at that fight in context.

He took the fight at 170 at short notice and got beat by a much bigger guy because he lacked the power to KO Nate at that weight and gassed himself trying. He then refused a rematch at 155 and insisted on beating Diaz at 170 which he did. That's impressive in itself.

 

[Icemav]

All you said is stuff like "you're incorrect" and "he is not poor to average at these". Where are the specific, tangible examples McGregor has demonstrated that back up any of your generic claims ?

Well you can I suppose hunt down a UFC statitician regarding his tdd. His rate of being submitted versus being taken down versus standing up. How often he is reversed on the ground. How often when he engages with an opponent on the ground he is almost caught in a submission or is submitted. And you can also watch his fights and judge for yourself if he has any strengths in the areas I have listed including positional control and fence control, or whether he is poor or average in these areas too. Sorry but I don't think I can answer you concretely aside from the anecdotal examples I provided you from specific fights.

 

[Icemav]

Battle of the losers. Boring.

onto the Adesanya train now

Yep.

 

[ZupZup]

You still haven't proven why he isn't better than average on the ground. When has he ever done anything remotely impressive in any area of MMA other than standup striking ?

When has Justin Gaethje? Someone you consider more multi dimensional... despite a real lack of evidence of anything other than striking in his career.

 

[Raoul]

Look at that fight in context.

He took the fight at 170 at short notice and got beat by a much bigger guy because he lacked the power to KO Nate at that weight and gassed himself trying. He then refused a rematch at 155 and insisted on beating Diaz at 170 which he did. That's impressive in itself.

I agree that the rematch resulted in a better, more adapted, tactical, and refined version of Conor. But it doesn't really speak to the core debate we're having, which is whether or not he has anything better than average skills in areas other than standup striking.

 

[Raoul]

When has Justin Gaethje? Someone you consider more multi dimensional... despite a real lack of evidence of anything other than striking in his career.

You could make a good argument that Gaethje has never truly revealed his wrestling background, but then again Justin has never been the global hype machine that Conor has become, so people generally don't care. When Conor opens his mouth during promotional campaigns, it gives audiences the impression that he's some sort of dominant, multi-faceted UFC fighter, when his results clearly show that he struggles when being exposed to dealing with level changes. If you go back and look at most of round one of the Mendes fight - Chad spent a good portion of it mauling him on the ground, until eventually gassing. This was Conor's first memorable test against a good grappler, and wound up being a harbinger of how he would struggle on the ground in future fights.

 

[Berbaclass]

I agree that the rematch resulted in a better, more adapted, tactical, and refined version of Conor. But it doesn't really speak to the core debate we're having, which is whether or not he has anything better than average skills in areas other than standup striking.

I'm not an expert so can't accurately speak to that question.

I do feel that you're being slightly disingenuous when claiming that he's average at everything but striking though. You surely can't get to the level that he has without being able to defend to a good level. He's been submitted twice (by a guy 2 weight classes above him and then by arguably the GOAT) but what about all the other times' fighters have tried to submit him or take him to the ground and he's stopped them. FIghters who specialize in doing such things, such as Khabib.

His takedown defence against Khabib was certainly not average and absolutely fared better than most I've ever seen try to defend against Khabib (after getting hammered on the ground for two rounds prior I might add)

 

[Raoul]

I'm not an expert so can't accurately speak to that question.

I do feel that you're being slightly disingenuous when claiming that he's average at everything but striking though. You surely can't get to the level that he has without being able to defend to a good level. He's been submitted twice (by a guy 2 weight classes above him and then by arguably the GOAT) but what about all the other times' fighters have tried to submit him or take him to the ground and he's stopped them. FIghters who specialize in doing such things, such as Khabib.

His takedown defence against Khabib was certainly not average and absolutely fared better than most I've ever seen try to defend against Khabib (after getting hammered on the ground for two rounds prior I might add)

You actually can. If you're a great boxer with KO potential, then you can go pretty far as long as you keep knocking people out. Look at a guy like Ngannou - few can deal with his initial flurry of punches and he is currently within a whisker of the heavyweight belt. And yet, for all his punching prowess, the moment you get him to the ground, he instantly turns into a mere mortal. McGregor is pretty much in the same category. It doesn't mean he's a bad or unsuccessful fighter, but to pretend he is some sort of balanced, multi-faceted fighter would be well off the mark.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Look at that fight in context.

He took the fight at 170 at short notice and got beat by a much bigger guy because he lacked the power to KO Nate at that weight and gassed himself trying. He then refused a rematch at 155 and insisted on beating Diaz at 170 which he did. That's impressive in itself.

This arguement just doesn't stick with me I'm sorry.

Nate's wins are all in lightweight. He is a lightweight fighter. If I remember correct, Nate's been beaten in all WW fights apart from the one he beat McGregor in. I remember seeing him ragdolled by Rory at WW and even recently got baptized at WW by Street Jesus.

The fight was short notice for McGregor but at least McGregor was in camp so should have got some training in.

Nate was sipping tequila on a boat or some shit.

It was impressive to win the rematch but even that was ultra close against a guy every MMA fan knows is a gatekeeper level fighter.

McGregor was a demon at featherweight. He is just another guy in the pack at weight classes above that.

 

[Icemav]

All you said is stuff like "you're incorrect" and "he is not poor to average at these". Where are the specific, tangible examples McGregor has demonstrated that back up any of your generic claims ?

Well I've got a silly video for you. Alvarez obviously was very unsuccessful by not completing a single take down attempt or keeping Conor against the cage. Khabib also completed 3 of 7 td attempts and his ground strikes landed at a much lower rate than normal. In my onpinion Conor is a pretty well rounded fighter more in the Anderson Silva mould rather than say a Jon Jones.

 

[Berbaclass]

You actually can. If you're a great boxer with KO potential, then you can go pretty far as long as you keep knocking people out. Look at a guy like Ngannou - few can deal with his initial flurry of punches and he is within a whisker of the heavyweight belt. And yet, for all his punching prowess, the moment you get him to the ground, he instantly turns into a mere mortal. McGregor is pretty much in the same category. It doesn't mean he's a bad or unsuccessful fighter, but to pretend he is some sort of balanced, multi-faceted fighter would be well off the mark.

I get the logic to an extent but Ngannou is a freak of nature.

The way you make McGregor out is that every time he gets taken down, he loses, which is simply not true. His defence is good enough to get him out of trouble which has been needed presumably many times.

He's not only world-class at striking but at distance managment. That's one other thing I think he does very well or has in the past.

My contention is that he's good just not average.

 

[ZupZup]

You could make a good argument that Gaethje has never truly revealed his wrestling background, but then again Justin has never been the global hype machine that Conor has become, so people generally don't care.

Why is hype relevant? You said Justin is more multi dimensional. Why is he? He’s a striker. He has openly admitted that he doesn’t like to wrestle because it’s tiring. He also hasn’t shown a good ground game in his MMA career. He looked more lost on the ground against Khabib than Conor did and I don’t think he has a good ground game either.

All fighters will try and utilise what they are best at... for Conor or Justin, that’s striking. For Khabib, he wants to take you down. Khabib will go down as one of the greatest ever but his striking is nothing more than good. It doesn’t matter though because he will take you down and impose his style completely.

 

[Berbaclass]

Well I've got a silly video for you. Alvarez obviously was very unsuccessful by not completing a single take down attempt or keeping Conor against the cage. Khabib also completed 3 of 7 td attempts and his ground strikes landed at a much lower rate than normal. In my onpinion Conor is a pretty well rounded fighter more in the Anderson Silva mould rather than say a Jon Jones.

 

[Raoul]

Well I've got a silly video for you. Alvarez obviously was very unsuccessful by not completing a single take down attempt or keeping Conor against the cage. Khabib also completed 3 of 7 td attempts and his ground strikes landed at a much lower rate than normal. In my onpinion Conor is a pretty well rounded fighter more in the Anderson Silva mould rather than say a Jon Jones.

Fending off takedown attempts is not the same thing as having a ground game, as in actually being able to fight on the ground.

As for the Anderson Silva comparison. They're light years apart in terms of being complete fighters. Anderson is a 3rd degree black belt in Jiu-Jitsu and a 5th degree BB in Teakwando. Conor hasn't even earned a black belt in anything, which shows how much emphasis he places on having a ground game.

 

[Icemav]

This arguement just doesn't stick with me I'm sorry.

Nate's wins are all in lightweight. He is a lightweight fighter. If I remember correct, Nate's been beaten in all WW fights apart from the one he beat McGregor in. I remember seeing him ragdolled by Rory at WW and even recently got baptized at WW by Street Jesus.

The fight was short notice for McGregor but at least McGregor was in camp so should have got some training in.

Nate was sipping tequila on a boat or some shit.

It was impressive to win the rematch but even that was ultra close against a guy every MMA fan knows is a gatekeeper level fighter.

McGregor was a demon at featherweight. He is just another guy in the pack at weight classes above that.

Well I wonder if Conor would have a 50/50 record against other gatekeepers in the devision? No. Why? Styles make fights as do the conditions of those fights.

Jumping up 2 weight classes when you have dodgy stamina against a bigger man who doesnt tire and is almost impossible to knock out is a nightmare fight for Conor. Thats why he struggled. Especially the first when it fecked up his preparation.

If he was sensible fighter like Khabib (not completely money driven) he wouldn't have taken the fight and definitely not at 170.

 

[Raoul]

Why is hype relevant? You said Justin is more multi dimensional. Why is he? He’s a striker. He has openly admitted that he doesn’t like to wrestle because it’s tiring. He also hasn’t shown a good ground game in his MMA career. He looked more lost on the ground against Khabib than Conor did and I don’t think he has a good ground game either.

All fighters will try and utilise what they are best at... for Conor or Justin, that’s striking. For Khabib, he wants to take you down. Khabib will go down as one of the greatest ever but his striking is nothing more than good. It doesn’t matter though because he will take you down and impose his style completely.

Because it creates an irrational expectation among casuals who wind up thinking fighters who are masters of hype are equally good at fighting, when that is clearly not the case.

 

[Icemav]

Fending off takedown attempts is not the same thing as having a ground game, as in actually being able to fight on the ground.

As for the Anderson Silva comparison. They're light years apart in terms of being complete fighters. Anderson is a 3rd degree black belt in Jiu-Jitsu and a 5th degree BB in Teakwando. Conor hasn't even earned a black belt in anything, which shows how much emphasis he places on having a ground game.

Mate you need to remember what you write. You said he is poor to average at everything apart from striking. I have listed other skills of Conor's where he excels. This whole "being able to fight on the ground" is a weird tagent you are going on. Grappling, takedowns, defense, offense, clinching, BJJ, wrestling, ground control, standing back up.... there are lots of different areas. If you are just repeating what I said earlier that Conor isn't an elite wrestler nor a submission specialist then this record is stuck on a loop. I can't and won't prove to you that he is, because he isn't. That of course does not mean is ONLY good at striking.

Anyway the video is clearly not just fending off takedown attempts. So again not sure what your point is.

Regarding Anderson, he is amazing of course but I do remember enjoying watching him getting flying leglock submitted by a gate keeper in Pride. He is also a terrible wrestler and obviously got mauled by Chael who is levels below Khabib. Or knocked out on his feet by a wrestler (who went on to be a gatekeeper of the division), something Conor has avoided so far. I mean GSP is one of the best MMA wrestlers ever and has zero amateur accolades. Talking about Anderson's blackbelts in TKD is also a bit silly. He used it a bit of course but more Muay Thai and Boxing and he achieved nothing in those particular sports. And for a Brazilian being good at Jiu Jitsu is like a Thai being good at Muay Thai. Conor from Ireland followed his own path and somehow became one of the greatest MMA strikers ever with maybe the most exciting style.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

Well I wonder if Conor would have a 50/50 record against other gatekeepers in the devision? No. Why? Styles make fights as do the conditions of those fights.

Jumping up 2 weight classes when you have dodgy stamina against a bigger man who doesnt tire and is almost impossible to knock out is a nightmare fight for Conor. Thats why he struggled. Especually the fiest when it fecked uo his preparation.

If he was sensible fighter like Khabib (not completely money driven) he wouldn't have taken the fight and definitely not at 170.

I don't know how many times I have to say this but McGregor didn't jump up 2 weight classes. His actual weight class is LW. He even said so himself. He was also training to fight RDA at LW. He therefore jumped up 1 weight class. Until that point, he was going down a weight class to featherweight. How is is this so difficult for some people to understand?

He also fight Nate, who is a LW, Nate was also fighting a weight class above with zero camp until he got the call.

I'm terms of how McGregor would do against other gatekeepers at LW? With the sample size, we simply don't know.

Despite winning the belt, he is far less accomplished than the likes of Ferguson, Gaethje, Poirier etc at LW.

He may spark these guys out or tap out to them. There's no way of knowing until he decides to be more active.

I'm not a McGregor hater or anything but blindly making claims and excuses for him is something that gets on my nerves.

He's a very good striker.
He was phenomenal at featherweight.

Above featherweight, he's just another guy until he proves otherwise.