Ideally we shoud replace both but neither will go anywhere
The McFred midfield duo
- Thread starter kouroux
- Start date
I profoundly apologise for lumping McTominay in with Fred. The latter has his flaws but he is twice the player.
If we're still starting this duo next season then we'll have failed miserably with recruitment
Even though it's still far from perfect, if we sign De Jong and Anthony I'd like to see...
-----------------Ronaldo-----------------
Sancho------Donny--------Anthony
--------------Fred-------De Jong---------
The biggest issue could be finding a place for Bruno but I'd imaging ETH will be looking for a number 10 who is better at keeping the ball than Bruno
-----------------Ronaldo-----------------
Sancho------Donny--------Anthony
--------------Fred-------De Jong---------
The biggest issue could be finding a place for Bruno but I'd imaging ETH will be looking for a number 10 who is better at keeping the ball than Bruno
Great line up if you want to end up in Championship.We would be overrun every game.
This midfield can fcuk off, and be replaced by Neves and FDJ together.
Not necessarily if we play 4-3-3 with De Jong as a deep lying playmaker, DVB and Fred box to box and we keep the ball a lot.
But I don't see Bruno fitting in that style and it would be interesting to see if we can afford the luxury of dropping maybe our best player for the past 2.5 years.
None of them have ever had a player to compliment them, and that is a player who takes control of the game, whilst they can do the dirty work - nothing wrong with that. You need players like that in the team and I believe the two will be very important players for ten Hag next season. He's a manager that wants players to run through brick walls for him and whilst not as techically gifted as some of our other players, I can assure you that both Fred and McTominay will certainly do that.
It's about time people stop using McFred, it's like people clubbing Smalling and Jones together for no reason when one of them was reliable and other couldn't step on the pitch.
Fred is much better player, he will be regular player for ETH.
Fred is much better player, he will be regular player for ETH.
How is that pivot different to the De Jong and Schone back in 18/19, who statistically, Fred is better defensively when compared to Schone?
What on earth makes you think Donny, who has been nothing bar a 5metre return pass merchant with us, should be keeping Bruno out who has scored quite a lot of goals for us, even taking away the pens?
Will still be the big game go to combo I'm sure
I have no problem with neither of them. Players that work hard for the club I support I will always have time for. However, the reason they were so important in the 'big games' was because of how we approached those games, as in we sat back and looked to counter.
I can imagine the introduction of ten Hag will mean he will try (not saying he will always achieve it) and dominate the ball every game. Is this something he'd be able to do with McTominay and Fred? Maybe, but Im sure the strong links to De Jong and players of a similar ilk suggest otherwise. That doesn't make them bad players, I just think the two would benefit from someone like De Jong next to them. Similarily, De Jong would also benefit by having a ball winner next to him. Football is about balance and we've not really got the midfield balance right in the last few seasons.
ten Hag?
It would be nice to have a bit more control of the ball.
There were way too many games we played like I used to, thinking we had to get from A to B in as little time as possible.
Plus even the likes of Norwich stormed through our centre mid and exposed the likes of Maguire horribly.
While I largely agree, Fred isn't an AM. He's a box-to-box harrier, who has spent most of his time here being played as a DM and main playmaker of the team. Even Kante's (who is the best example of how Fred should have been played) performances dropped significantly when Chelsea tried playing him deeper a few years ago, and he was still getting partnered with others who took the playmaking duties. Fred didn't even have that, as he had no choice but to be the main distributor in the 'McFred' combo since McTominay certainly can't do it.
If the De Jong deal does go through, it will be interesting to see if ETH allows Fred to play the more free role that he had under Ralf, or if he will need to be a bit more disciplined again to cover for De Jong going forward.
People putting Fred as a partner for De Jong live in Wonderland. He is not good enough to be a starter anywhere in midfield, never mind as a CDM. The guy has the defensive instinct of a chihuahua.
Who would you recommend instead who'll not burn a sizeable hole in our budget?
Absolutely certain Fred will prove a lot of people wrong next season.
Really looking forward to that. Will It be a similar role to what he does for Brazil? I think he has the stamina to be an option.
Also most discount the defensive actions of FDJ who can more than contribute his fair share. Another important point in this debate is that De Jong rarely loses the ball even now playing advanced at Barca. He is the controller and progressive passer we've been missing and Fred's high energy approach will definitely suit him. I can even see McT as the rotation option for this defensive 8.
Fred further up the pitch is a useful player, but play him deep or as a DM and he is bang average.
McTom should be wearing an Everton shirt.
McTom should be wearing an Everton shirt.
They should never have been a duo, but we needed legs in midfield. Some truths:
- Neither of them are defensive midfielders.
- Both of them do their best work mucking about in the opposition half.
- Both of them have terrible defensive awareness and we’ve been almost unfair to expect them to shield the defence.
- Fred is significantly better than McTominay.
- If we had the business savvy to do so, McTominay would be sold to the highest bidder and at least two, maybe even three, midfielders would be on their way in to replace him.
- Going forward, Fred can play an important role in a three man midfield provided the other two players are good on the ball.
Palninha from sporting is an easy pick to me.
If you’re going to be a primarily defensive midfielder at a big club, you need to be able to handle the bulk of the defensive side of the midfield without extra help.
That’s the main issue with both Fred and McTominay, they both need too much help defensively.
That’s the main issue with both Fred and McTominay, they both need too much help defensively.
VDB had 2 seasons in EPL and he did nothing.ETH is not magician on contrary he can be our Frank de Boer.
I am more talking about VDB.He did nothing for 2 years and people are still putting him in first eleven.He is just not good for EPL.Nothing to be a ashamed about.IMHO he would be good for team like Dortmund or Milan.
But realistically he's still poor. Better than McTominay obviously but that's easy.
Fred is bypassed so easily, brushed off the ball easily, seems to lose every single 50-50 , his passing can be woeful at times too.
It's best we replace them both but I've a feeling we will only target 1 midfielder.
How many of the top teams rely on one midfielder to do the bulk of the defensive work without much help? There's a couple that do (Real being an obvious one), but most share the load quite a lot. Obviously one will do a bit more but he'll have plenty of help from at least one other midfielder. Plus most top teams will be getting more defensive work out of their attacking players than what we do, and the entire shape of the team makes it easier to win the ball back quickly once it's lost. Our midfielders have looked worse than they actually are because of how little help they get from anyone, which will hopefully change now with ETH coming in (and the signings he makes).
That's not to say that I think Fred or McTominay will necessarily be good enough. Fred certainly does enough defensive work, but he tends to do it as a destroyer all over the pitch rather than using his positioning to cover. I haven't seen enough of De Jong (if we do end up getting him) to know which he needs, but if he needs more of a sitter next to him (a Fabinho or Casemiro) then we will need to get someone else as well. However if he himself is positionally disciplined enough to provide the cover and can be partnered with a box-to-box destroyer (think Pirlo-Gattuso or Jorginho-Kante partnerships) then he and Fred might work quite well for at least a season so we can concentrate on other positions.
While Fred isn't as terrible as Mctominay he's still shite to me. Every good or even great action will be negated by something stupid.
I really hope we sign two midfielders this summer. Fred will be okay subbing into games or rotating but I want Mctominay to be phased out of the club next season. If not for his height he'd be on Burnley's bench.
I really hope we sign two midfielders this summer. Fred will be okay subbing into games or rotating but I want Mctominay to be phased out of the club next season. If not for his height he'd be on Burnley's bench.
Neither player will be sold, both players will be given games (Fred more than McT I would think), and hopefully both players will improve under the new manager.
Hopefully we are prioritising signing 1 or 2 centre midfielders this window. To not sign 1 would be a complete failure but it's not always possible to do all the business you want to, so maybe we won't get 2.
As far as I know, both players are professional and have good attitudes (no question marks over work-rate). I see them as part of the managers plans in building a hard working squad of players, for the next 2-3 years. How much they play will be down to our success in the transfer market, our luck with injuries, and how far we go in cup competitions.
Hopefully we are prioritising signing 1 or 2 centre midfielders this window. To not sign 1 would be a complete failure but it's not always possible to do all the business you want to, so maybe we won't get 2.
As far as I know, both players are professional and have good attitudes (no question marks over work-rate). I see them as part of the managers plans in building a hard working squad of players, for the next 2-3 years. How much they play will be down to our success in the transfer market, our luck with injuries, and how far we go in cup competitions.
Fred, De Jong and and unnamed DM (that can also pass)would be a pretty balanced midfield. That would have energy, passing ability and solidity. McTominay would be a Fred alternative in that composition.
Bruno would have to play an attacking role. Which given how high is average position often is, shouldn't be a big change.
Bruno would have to play an attacking role. Which given how high is average position often is, shouldn't be a big change.
I seem to disagree with the majority. I think McT is better or at least has better potential than Fred. Some of the games fred has played for united have been the worst performances I've ever seen for the club. Unforgivable. But agree that we definitely need better than both
And be world class ?
World class is a meaningless term.
And be as good as Roy Keane?
Obviously not.
They're no Lingard and Pogba
So what’s the surprise ? He will be decent? A good player but not great? He’s been here long enough….I don’t see any surprises coming, but I think he’s a good player. Maybe he will be more consistent. That wouldn’t surprise me though. I expect most of the players to be more consistent with a proper manager and a proper system
“A good player but not great” is how I see him being yeah. And it will be a surprise given the way loads of people talk about him on here.
In comparison to this season, I think most players still here will benefit from ETH.