The McFred midfield duo

[VidaRed]

If we're still starting this duo next season then we'll have failed miserably with recruitment

We will.

Whats worse is that we don't have anyone upfront either accept grandpa ronaldo, if he gets injured we're fecked.

 

[flappyjay]

They helped us for 2 seasons but it was obvious they were not good enough. Poor squad planning by Ole and those above him left McFred as our starting cm pair for too long. I think Ole as a manager does not have an appreciation for midfielders.

 

[Abraxas]

I seem to disagree with the majority. I think McT is better or at least has better potential than Fred. Some of the games fred has played for united have been the worst performances I've ever seen for the club. Unforgivable. But agree that we definitely need better than both

Potential? McT is in his mid 20s. I don't think he's shown enough apart from that one game a season where he goes on a box to box rampage to think there's much untapped.

My hope is in a better midfield structure and with less game time he'll be able to play a part in the squad that attracts less criticism. Maybe in a squad role he'll be more suited.

 

[sdb4884]

Good as backup and squad players but if we are still starting them next season it will be more of the same from last season.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Fred is unfairly grouped together with McTominay.

He is a much better player.

 

[Carl]

Fred is unfairly grouped together with McTominay.

He is a much better player.

I think it's because when he's bad he's absolutely dreadful and that sticks in people's minds. I agree though, Fred's a good player.

 

[wolvored]

Neither should be a starter again if we are to frab a hold of top 4. McFred is our biggest weakness as it neither strengthens attack or defence. Fred a complete waste of 50 mill and Mc Tom gets picked probably as a gesture to Fergie/ Fletcher

 

[Carl]

You don't absolutely need world class players all over midfield, it just needs to do enough to service the team. Look at Liverpool.

 

[IrishMcD]

McTominay is the first player (of the regular starters) I’d be getting rid of. He is so bad. In 40ys of following the club, I have never seen a player hide as much in midfield as he does. People saying he is good enough to be a squad player, I complete disagree. There isn’t a midfielder in the PL he can dominate. What game can you confidently play him in without having to worry he is going to get taken to the cleaners? He got destroyed yesterday against Irelands midfield ffs, Josh Cullen, Alan Browne and Jason Molumby all looked like better players. If McTominay played for any other club no one would think signing him as a squad player would be a good idea.
apologies for the rant, but he boils my blood.

 

[Marwood]

You don't absolutely need world class players all over midfield, it just needs to do enough to service the team. Look at Liverpool.

Their midfield is still better than ours. As is the rest of their team.

You can't purposely lower the quality of your midfield just because one other team sort of does.

 

[NoPace]

McTominay is the first player (of the regular starters) I’d be getting rid of. He is so bad. In 40ys of following the club, I have never seen a player hide as much in midfield as he does. People saying he is good enough to be a squad player, I complete disagree. There isn’t a midfielder in the PL he can dominate. What game can you confidently play him in without having to worry he is going to get taken to the cleaners? He got destroyed yesterday against Irelands midfield ffs, Josh Cullen, Alan Browne and Jason Molumby all looked like better players. If McTominay played for any other club no one would think signing him as a squad player would be a good idea.
apologies for the rant, but he boils my blood.

I don't know if Schneiderlin hid but I remember immediately being struck by how little anyone wanted to pass him the ball. I wonder if he was terrible in training.

With you on McTominay. I once thought he could become a useful squad player for us, either via pressing or using his height and being a decent passer between the lines to become a useful DM type, but he's had 3 proper seasons here and hasn't improved a lick.

There was a report that Ten Hag sees him as one of the players to keep, and I guess you could argue he was never going to improve under Ole, but I'd be really surprised. Maybe he thinks he can do what Edson Alvarez does for Ajax and be a tall, mobile shield who wins a ton of headers and is maybe the least involved (relative to his position) in terms of touches of the ball, but honestly that sounds more like Declan Rice and we know McTominay isn't that sort of reader of the game defensively. And Alvarez actually plays CB well enough that he wouldn't be the weak link in the Scottish backline.

 

[clarkydaz]

Fred is unfairly grouped together with McTominay.

He is a much better player.

Fred has higher highs, yet lower lows as he will always take the ball and try something. There is nobody to defend Fred though so he is an easy target. McT has a steady game/scores a goal and his credit goes through the roof

 

[Carl]

Their midfield is still better than ours. As is the rest of their team.

You can't purposely lower the quality of your midfield just because one other team sort of does.

Yeh thats not what I was saying. Just that every spot in midfield doesn't have to be filled with a world class midfielder.

 

[Carl]

Fred has higher highs, yet lower lows as he will always take the ball and try something. There is nobody to defend Fred though so he is an easy target. McT has a steady game/scores a goal and his credit goes through the roof

Not sure Fred has ever served up a performance as bad as McTominay against Chelsea.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I am more talking about VDB.He did nothing for 2 years and people are still putting him in first eleven.He is just not good for EPL.Nothing to be a ashamed about.IMHO he would be good for team like Dortmund or Milan.

Getting 'overrun' in midfield isn't the fault of one player, especially the advanced midfielder, therefore, you must have been talking about that midfield as a whole, which as I said before, is no different to ten Hags midfield three in 18/19. Actually, the only player who would be different to that midfield is Fred.

As for Van de Beek, I understand your concerns. He may well not end up being successful here, but given that the manager who managed to make Van de Beek into one of the most promising attacking midfielders in Europe is now at United, I guess the logic of some is that he can hopefully replicate it here. I mean, you say he did nothing for 2 years but he's hardly been given a fair run.

Time will tell, and I would obviously opt for Bruno in midfield, but your initial point is void, as the Ajax midfield with Van de Beek and De Jong very rarely got overrun, if at all.

 

[Marwood]

Yeh thats not what I was saying. Just that every spot in midfield doesn't have to be filled with a world class midfielder.

True it doesn't but it really helps if it is.

I see no point in aiming for less than world class though. Especially when the rest of the team isn't up to scratch.

 

[Bestietom]

We will.

Whats worse is that we don't have anyone upfront either accept grandpa ronaldo, if he gets injured we're fecked.

We need a young CF this season who can learn from Ronaldo. Also we will need a big strong DM with De Jong who is a bit shy to tackle.

 

[honirelandboy]

The republic of Irelands championship midfield embarrassed Scott Mctominay yesterday. He was dreadful. Scott is not premier league quality whatsoever.
Fred is woeful as well but Scott is so bad he starts making Fred look like prime Iniesta. Sell Scott to a championship club or Celtic and keep Fred as a squad player.

 

[clarkydaz]

Not sure Fred has ever served up a performance as bad as McTominay against Chelsea.

im sure, what i mean is McT seems to escape lots of criticism from the media. Fred they will happily make him the scapegoat. Fred doesnt hide, McT does and gets away with it

 

[Ali Dia]

People clearly still haven't cottoned on to the fact that if everyone played as well and as hard as Fred last season we’d be in the champions league again. It’s not a problem that he’s one of our better players. It’s the rest of the overrated and lazy players that are the problem. Rashford Pogba and McT were all disgraceful last season.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Neither should be a starter again if we are to frab a hold of top 4. McFred is our biggest weakness as it neither strengthens attack or defence. Fred a complete waste of 50 mill and Mc Tom gets picked probably as a gesture to Fergie/ Fletcher

Im gonna say Rashford not giving a feck, Bruno giving the ball away to everyone that comes near him, Maguire being Bambi on ice, Telles and Dalot just being themselves are as big if not bigger weaknesses than Fred and McT

The whole structure and make up of the team is a weakness, and if ETH can get the team to actually play in some sort of structure then I’m sure most of these guys will improve. If they don’t then they get replaced.

I expect to see massive improvements in how we perform and play next season but I’ve seen enough of McT for now and he should be replaced by one of the youngsters or someone brought in.

Fred is what he is and has a use in any team for me. Gives his all, always running, always trying. We need bodies currently in midfield so I don’t see why you’d get rid of arguably the only 1 good midfielder we had last season.

 

[GoldanoGraham]

Fred will be in ETH’s team - it’s what else is around him that is key - it certainly should not be McT though.

Fred puts in the effort and has a great engine - he just needs to be able to break up play and then give a simple pass to someone better than him on the ball.

He is able to press better than anyone else in the team.

 

[wolvored]

Im gonna say Rashford not giving a feck, Bruno giving the ball away to everyone that comes near him, Maguire being Bambi on ice, Telles and Dalot just being themselves are as big if not bigger weaknesses than Fred and McT

The whole structure and make up of the team is a weakness, and if ETH can get the team to actually play in some sort of structure then I’m sure most of these guys will improve. If they don’t then they get replaced.

I expect to see massive improvements in how we perform and play next season but I’ve seen enough of McT for now and he should be replaced by one of the youngsters or someone brought in.

Fred is what he is and has a use in any team for me. Gives his all, always running, always trying. We need bodies currently in midfield so I don’t see why you’d get rid of arguably the only 1 good midfielder we had last season.

I agree with most of your post but the question was midfield. You stae Fred always running and trying. Any fit person can do that. We need 2 skillful midfielders that can short and long pass accurately. Can anticipate or make the next opening happen. Can assist and score a few goals. Can cut out the opposition attacks and not waste the ball when we have it. They cant do that and thats why both need replacing.

 

[Ole's screen]

I’m gonna say something very controversial here. I think McTominay will feature a lot more than people think. I wouldn’t be surprised if he established himself as a regular in ETH’s team by the end of the season just like he did with Jose and Ole.

 

[VidaRed]

We need a young CF this season who can learn from Ronaldo. Also we will need a big strong DM with De Jong who is a bit shy to tackle.

I don't think we'll be buying a striker this window, which is a massive risk.

 

[Blood Mage]

Fred is a good player who will look much better in a structured system next to a playmaker like FDJ next season. McTominay just isn't good enough.

 

[Cathy Ferguson]

Fred is a good player who will look much better in a structured system next to a playmaker like FDJ next season. McTominay just isn't good enough.

Fred is mediocre and will only play if we cannot afford to replace him this summer. His first touch is certainly not top4 quality.

 

[Ekeke]

If we're still starting this duo next season then we'll have failed miserably with recruitment

Think it goes a lot deeper than that. If we're still starting this duo, we're immune to learning and and incapable of reasonable judgement of where we need to improve our team.

Essentially we'll never be moving in the right direction. We'll always be where we are

 

[Ekeke]

Fred is a good player who will look much better in a structured system next to a playmaker like FDJ next season. McTominay just isn't good enough.

They'd both look a lot better next to a lot better players. That goes for every player

 

[TuzlaUnited]

Getting 'overrun' in midfield isn't the fault of one player, especially the advanced midfielder, therefore, you must have been talking about that midfield as a whole, which as I said before, is no different to ten Hags midfield three in 18/19. Actually, the only player who would be different to that midfield is Fred.

As for Van de Beek, I understand your concerns. He may well not end up being successful here, but given that the manager who managed to make Van de Beek into one of the most promising attacking midfielders in Europe is now at United, I guess the logic of some is that he can hopefully replicate it here. I mean, you say he did nothing for 2 years but he's hardly been given a fair run.

Time will tell, and I would obviously opt for Bruno in midfield, but your initial point is void, as the Ajax midfield with Van de Beek and De Jong very rarely got overrun, if at all.

I watch a lot of Holland football.One brother in law have Zwolle season ticket and another of Vitesse.EPL is just on another level to Holland league.VDB is just "lightweight" for EPL type of football.
And if you are referring to their CL run.It was 2-3 years ago.
It is just my opinion and I would be happy to be proven wrong.I am just tired o being beaten by every club under the sun.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

I watch a lot of Holland football.One brother in law have Zwolle season ticket and another of Vitesse.EPL is just on another level to Holland league.VDB is just "lightweight" for EPL type of football.
And if you are referring to their CL run.It was 2-3 years ago.
It is just my opinion and I would be happy to be proven wrong.I am just tired o being beaten by every club under the sun.

I'm referring to how they didn't get overrun in the league, nor the CL. The same team that outran all of the EPL sides they came up against in the CL.

Also, the 'lightweight' thing doesn't wash anymore. We've seen players of a smaller stature and less physicality succeed in the EPL. Van de Beek is 6ft by the way and certainly doesn't shy away from a tackle. Having played under ten Hag, Van de Beek knows what the physical requirements will be.


Pogba, Matic, McTominay and Fred aren't lightweight, yet were constantly getting overrun in midfield with them.

As I said before, this is a structural problem that I'm hoping ten Hag will fix, where as a result, we'll be much harder to play against.

 

[Abraxas]

Big difference between running your socks off for Ajax in the CL where every game is a cup final and then going to Vitesse away on the weekend for a soft game compared to what we need in midfield. The CL is a different type of football, you only play top teams and they're very tactical affairs. I don't find any mitigation in the "Ajax argument" because the PL is a proper physical slog every single week.

It's the hustle and bustle of the PL that Donny looks ill suited to. Seems to get knocked off the ball, looks slow to get around, doesn't seem to assess his options and panic punts it backwards to the nearest player. It all makes him hard to place. If you play him in attacking areas he has zero dynamism, he doesn't ever carry the ball, and plays backwards too much, the only hope is he floats into the box which is a strength. If played deep his weak defensive play stands out.

It's ETH's conundrum now anyway, if there's one man that can make him look a PL player it must be him. I think Fred will be more favoured by ETH, personally.

 

[croadyman]

Good as backup and squad players but if we are still starting them next season it will be more of the same from last season.

Yeah they should be squad players, however fear we won't sign a DM to help De Jong flourish properly and just rotate them instead

 

[croadyman]

I don't think we'll be buying a striker this window, which is a massive risk.

Yeah with Nunez gone quality options look bleak

 

[laughtersassassin]

The thought of having to watch either of these again is depressing.

Sure Fred is better but man has a million flaws for a Midfielder

 

[Wing Attack Plan R]

Fred will be in ETH’s team - it’s what else is around him that is key - it certainly should not be McT though.

Fred puts in the effort and has a great engine - he just needs to be able to break up play and then give a simple pass to someone better than him on the ball.

He is able to press better than anyone else in the team.

That's not the position Fred plays, that's what McTominay plays. Fred is meant to be a creative midfielder/playmaker/attacker, and he just isn't good enough. Fred's long range passing/shooting and his situational awareness are lacking. He's better with a bunch of quality players near him, but who isn't.

I don't think Fred's effort and engine enter into it, because we are not running track & field. We have to be aiming a whole lot higher than Fred for attacking options in midfield. I see Fred as more of an 8 and McTominay as a 6, and neither are up to standard, but I seem to see a lot of people thinking Fred will benefit from ETH's coaching and the new players and new setup, while saying somehow McTominay won't. I think they both will benefit but we really need better players.

 

[TuzlaUnited]

I'm referring to how they didn't get overrun in the league, nor the CL. The same team that outran all of the EPL sides they came up against in the CL.

Also, the 'lightweight' thing doesn't wash anymore. We've seen players of a smaller stature and less physicality succeed in the EPL. Van de Beek is 6ft by the way and certainly doesn't shy away from a tackle. Having played under ten Hag, Van de Beek knows what the physical requirements will be.


Pogba, Matic, McTominay and Fred aren't lightweight, yet were constantly getting overrun in midfield with them.

As I said before, this is a structural problem that I'm hoping ten Hag will fix, where as a result, we'll be much harder to play against.

Big difference between running your socks off for Ajax in the CL where every game is a cup final and then going to Vitesse away on the weekend for a soft game compared to what we need in midfield. The CL is a different type of football, you only play top teams and they're very tactical affairs. I don't find any mitigation in the "Ajax argument" because the PL is a proper physical slog every single week.

It's the hustle and bustle of the PL that Donny looks ill suited to. Seems to get knocked off the ball, looks slow to get around, doesn't seem to assess his options and panic punts it backwards to the nearest player. It all makes him hard to place. If you play him in attacking areas he has zero dynamism, he doesn't ever carry the ball, and plays backwards too much, the only hope is he floats into the box which is a strength. If played deep his weak defensive play stands out.

It's ETH's conundrum now anyway, if there's one man that can make him look a PL player it must be him. I think Fred will be more favoured by ETH, personally.

This member put it so good and with my limited English I think it is better than any my response.
I respect your opinion but I just think he is no good for EPL.
@Abraxas ,thank you.

 

[cyril C]

Fred has higher highs, yet lower lows as he will always take the ball and try something. There is nobody to defend Fred though so he is an easy target. McT has a steady game/scores a goal and his credit goes through the roof

Fred is an industrial player but he is really the little guy behind the big guy type. Don't ask him to do a 1-on-1 challenge because he will lose 99%. Don't ask him to pass unless the ball is on his left foot, don't ask him to shoot unless the ball is on his right. If he is fit and on top of rhythm like 2 seasons ago, he will be alright. But when he is off rhythm like last...

 

[Caesar2290]

Big difference between running your socks off for Ajax in the CL where every game is a cup final and then going to Vitesse away on the weekend for a soft game compared to what we need in midfield. The CL is a different type of football, you only play top teams and they're very tactical affairs. I don't find any mitigation in the "Ajax argument" because the PL is a proper physical slog every single week.

It's the hustle and bustle of the PL that Donny looks ill suited to. Seems to get knocked off the ball, looks slow to get around, doesn't seem to assess his options and panic punts it backwards to the nearest player. It all makes him hard to place. If you play him in attacking areas he has zero dynamism, he doesn't ever carry the ball, and plays backwards too much, the only hope is he floats into the box which is a strength. If played deep his weak defensive play stands out.

It's ETH's conundrum now anyway, if there's one man that can make him look a PL player it must be him. I think Fred will be more favoured by ETH, personally.

Maybe a couple of years back. These days the PL is becoming more and more tactical. Even teams like Brentford, Brighton or Norwhich can outplay bigger teams for extended periods of time. The days of Vinnie Jones, Roy Keane, Andy Caroll and Duncan Fergusson are in the past. The intensity is still pretty high though.

The reason Donny looks so lightweight is because he has yet to play in a well defined tactically drilled team. So far every team he's played for in the PL has relied too much on individual brilliance and/or lacked actual tactical coaching.

 

[Slysi17]

I’m gonna say something very controversial here. I think McTominay will feature a lot more than people think. I wouldn’t be surprised if he established himself as a regular in ETH’s team by the end of the season just like he did with Jose and Ole.

Your wrong. What logic makes you think that. Scott McTominay ain't good enough. He is 25 and won't improve much. He isn't and never will be good enough for Manchester United. Should honestly sell him while we can get a decent fee.