The McFred midfield duo

LuckyScout78 said:
McBellingham. I would go for that in the summer.

After following Bellingham closer. After United and Sir Alex tried so hard to convince him. I think i have found out the reason for it. A good reason. The boy oze a dominance presence. He has that ability to pass players from cm or others attacking area. Beside scoring goals. Good and precise with combination football and good and effience in the final third.

Fred is good to have for squad depth. And sitting on bench sometimes. I dont think hasn't Fred as much as others.
We demand a lot. But as a ballwinner, Fred is good at it.

Bellingham, McTom, Fred and a new best allround CM if Pobga leaving.

Matic out and leave the spot for a youngster that push the establish players like Garner and Hannibal.
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Imo Fred is one of the most underwhelming ballwinners I've seen. I'm not sure he's even one by talent or by default of not actually being good at anything else. A real ballwinner was peak Fletcher. True ballwinners can get players to face their goal even when they don't win the ball just by their pressure alone. I'm just shocked how we can have two defensive CMs and be this open, they just walk through us.
 
I saw Trap play Julie Andrews and Glenn Whelan in midfield for Ireland for more matches than I care to remember. Even those two were a better pair than Fred and McTominay.

They both just need to be removed from the equation altogether.
 
Oranges038 said:
I saw Trap play Julie Andrews and Glenn Whelan in midfield for Ireland for more matches than I care to remember. Even those two were a better pair than Fred and McTominay.

They both just need to be removed from the equation altogether.
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That has to be total nonsense.

Ireland are awful. United finished 2nd in the PL with these two mostly playing last year. It's not what we want but it's a damn sight better than those players are capable of.
 
One of my wish in 2022, is that we don't have to rely on playing them ever again.

I hate playing midfielders who can't pass, just that.
 
Abraxas said:
That has to be total nonsense.

Ireland are awful. United finished 2nd in the PL with these two mostly playing last year. It's not what we want but it's a damn sight better than those players are capable of.
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They might not have been better players individually, although that is debatable. But as a pair they worked better together than these two clowns, they've played together for 3 years, still no visible chemistry or working relationship there and barely an ounce of midfield nous between them.

,
 
lex talionis said:
Pogba is likely to leave. Matic will either retire or go on Mata status. McFred can’t be our starting midfield duo next season. Bring in one CDM for sure, possibly two, but I’d like to see us bring up Garner as well.
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Neither are good enough to start week in week out

They are dragging us down.

Have one on the bench/as backup at most
 
laughtersassassin said:
Neither are good enough to start week in week out

They are dragging us down.

Have one on the bench/as backup at most
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I actually wouldn't object to having both on the bench. If we ever reach the point where we can cruise past clubs like Southampton 3-0 by the 60th minute we can bring either or even both to close out the match on give our starting midfielders rest for the next match.

But starting either or both match after match is insanity. We're forced to do so now because of the neglect of previous managers, but over the summer we absolutely must rebuild our midfield regardless of whether Pogba stays, which seems unlikely.
 
If you put both on the bench, we are left with Bruno "I can't not be all over the pitch" F and Paul "I'm leaving in the summer and can only saunter back to defend anyway" P.

Nein. Bitte.
 
We have numerous academy midfielders better than McTominay tbh and I blame the coaches who refuse to see that and make changes. I would rather play Hannibal and we should have recalled James Garner or Ethan Galbraith so we find out if they're good enough or not ahead of a summer rebuild.
 
Greck said:
Imo Fred is one of the most underwhelming ballwinners I've seen. I'm not sure he's even one by talent or by default of not actually being good at anything else. A real ballwinner was peak Fletcher. True ballwinners can get players to face their goal even when they don't win the ball just by their pressure alone. I'm just shocked how we can have two defensive CMs and be this open, they just walk through us.
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Well I think strictly McFred are not two defensive midfielders. They are two general / box2box types who were being asked to play defensively and not really doing a good job of it.
 
lex talionis said:
Pogba is likely to leave. Matic will either retire or go on Mata status. McFred can’t be our starting midfield duo next season. Bring in one CDM for sure, possibly two, but I’d like to see us bring up Garner as well.
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That is looking increasingly likely as we will probably prioritize forwards over midfielders (as we always do anyway).

OrcaFat said:
Well I think strictly McFred are not two defensive midfielders. They are two general / box2box types who were being asked to play defensively and not really doing a good job of it.
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They definitely are not defensive midfielders and both would benefit greatly from having one behind them. Then they can do the running hussling what they are really good at. They are far from terrible, but together they are very limited. It's even worse when either of them is paired with Pogba and actually has to do much more defensive work obviously.
 
Natener said:
I don't think either are as bad as the criticism they keep getting. Regardless, they just aren't good enough for united's first 11. And to play both at the same time as a midfield pairing is just... awful.
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Should be squad players and that's it, surely we can find two players in the summer to finally bench these two most of the time
 
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Their defensive assistance is so mediocre. Players just stroll into our box to overload it while they are ballwatching or standing a mile away. If you wondered why we constantly seemed helplessly outnumbered in the box just look at where Fred was on some of those goals. They can't read danger to save their lives. Their only saving grace is the other midfielders are somehow even worse at it.
 
Masters of making themselves look busy while in reality they jogg around without any purpose or commitment.
 
They both should be sold this summer. They are too comfortable in knowing one or both will always be picked, when neither are good enough.
 
Greck said:
Their defensive assistance is so mediocre. Players just stroll into our box to overload it while they are ballwatching or standing a mile away. If you wondered why we constantly seemed helplessly outnumbered in the box just look at where Fred was on some of those goals. They can't read danger to save their lives. Their only saving grace is the other midfielders are somehow even worse at it.
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Opposition players are constantly strolling past them and it's been a case forever, yet somehow they are both "defensively" bringing something to the team. Absolute madness that they are still an option and are constantly featuring in the team.
 
I see no difference in terms of the opposition bypassing our midfield when the the great mcfred duo is playing or when matic is playing, at least matic is actually good in possession and has the ability to control a game
 
It’s completely unbelievable that the great Manchester United have persisted with these two as the heart of our team.
we are Man united for fecks sake.. Scholes, Keane, Carrick, Ince, Robson..Beckham, a history of great players who can control a game and dominate the midfield.. the heart of the team where Defence and attack meet.

how has this been allowed to happen? Ole has a lot to answer for Imo..
We cannot go one more season with these two. Sort it out FFS.
 
………and yet every manager to date plays them? If they are that shite, cost us games, why would managers want to accelerate getting their P45 by playing them? If they are that shite, then they are easy to replace? I’ve yet to hear to realistic argument for why they continue to be picked. If I was a betting person, I think the new manager will too, the last four have…..
 
Litch said:
………and yet every manager to date plays them? If they are that shite, cost us games, why would managers want to accelerate getting their P45 by playing them? If they are that shite, then they are easy to replace? I’ve yet to hear to realistic argument for why they continue to be picked. If I was a betting person, I think the new manager will too, the last four have…..
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They are the best amongst the worst. Utd have the worst set of midfield options in the league.
 
We’re due a big clear out in the summer, don’t know how long Fred has on his contract whilst McTominay should be sent out on loan, possibly to a European side.
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
They are the best amongst the worst. Utd have the worst set of midfield options in the league.
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for 4 managers? Still doesn’t answer the question. So you think that those managers think they could be successful with the worst midfield in the league? Im not saying they are the answer, I just don’t understand why if they are that bad, why these managers think that they are good enough.
Like said, if I was a betting person, I fully expect them to be starting next season cause they basically have for the last four…..
 
A genuinely bottom of the table standard double-pivot. Neither should be anywhere near the team next season, but we know at least one them will be.
 
Litch said:
for 4 managers? Still doesn’t answer the question. So you think that those managers think they could be successful with the worst midfield in the league? Im not saying they are the answer, I just don’t understand why if they are that bad, why these managers think that they are?
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What options did they have? McTom was promoted by Mourinho and Fred, Pogba were also bought during his time. Mourinho was a victim of his own record of abysmal recruiting.

Everyone knows that Ole wanted Rice last summer. He didn't get his wish. Nobody will ever know why he bought VdB.

Ralf has midfield options in Pogba, McFred, Matic. Pogba is a liability and Matic is running on empty. Who do you think will play?
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
What options did they have? McTom was promoted by Mourinho and Fred, Pogba were also bought during his time. Mourinho was a victim of his own record of abysmal recruiting.

Everyone knows that Ole wanted Rice last summer. He didn't get his wish. Nobody will ever know why he bought VdB.

Ralf has midfield options in Pogba, McFred, Matic. Pogba is a liability and Matic is running on empty. Who do you think will play?
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We haven’t had a ban on signing midfielders and managed to sign players in pretty much every other position. We have even brought a player in on loan from China to play up front. If McFred is the worst midfield in the league then even a Matic for 60 mins or Pogs as a liability is better? RR could have kept DVB and played him instead too as surely that would be a better option but he didn’t.
Ole wanted Rice but who didn’t in the league. Will be an interesting summer and I think there going to be a lot of disappointment in our fan base, as McFred are here to stay for another season.
 
We should play 433 with McT as a 6, and Fred+Bruno as 8, because it’s our best lineup in middle now.

In the next season we should buy CDM who will control the game and Garner as a backup. Fred and McT should compete for b2b position I think. But neither of them should be played in a double pivot, so this should be 433.
 
This is the third season with this duo regularly starting , it's just crazy and it's not like we are better defensively or in attack despite focusing on these two areas
 
Litch said:
We haven’t had a ban on signing midfielders and managed to sign players in pretty much every other position. We have even brought a player in on loan from China to play up front. If McFred is the worst midfield in the league then even a Matic for 60 mins or Pogs as a liability is better? RR could have kept DVB and played him instead too as surely that would be a better option but he didn’t.
Ole wanted Rice but who didn’t in the league. Will be an interesting summer and I think there going to be a lot of disappointment in our fan base, as McFred are here to stay for another season.
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I had said that McFred was best amongst the worst and yes, Pogba and Matic are worse than these two in a 2 man midfield.

Of course we had no bans but when you buy Matic, Pogba and Fred for a combined outlay of 190-200m then obviously midfield will be the least of priorities. We had toothless attack during LvG era and our CB options were Smalling and RoJones.

This club aint Manchester City where they replace a recently bought player immediately if they are not good enough (Bravo, Mendy etc). This is a club that allows the player stock to die down completely before they decide to sell them.

The problem is simple. We never get our signings right and that's why we are always in these types of discussions. We make extremely poor signings that set us back at least 3 years in their respective department because we aren't expected to address that spot for atleast the next 2-3 years.
 
It's a myth that somehow McFred covers up for the others' defensive ability (or lack there of). They're bad defensively too except they're crap at everything else too. I don't know why people persist with the idea that they contribute on defense, when they're always exposing themselves as awful in that area too.
 
Litch said:
for 4 managers? Still doesn’t answer the question. So you think that those managers think they could be successful with the worst midfield in the league? Im not saying they are the answer, I just don’t understand why if they are that bad, why these managers think that they are good enough.
Like said, if I was a betting person, I fully expect them to be starting next season cause they basically have for the last four…..
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RR wanted a DM or two, but couldn't get any. It's clear that he doesn't rate these two. He wanted to play 4-2-2-2 but then realized that those 2 in front of the 4 aren't good enough, thus adjusted to 4-3-2-1.

Also since when Mou rate Fred?
 
ayushreddevil9 said:
I had said that McFred was best amongst the worst and yes, Pogba and Matic are worse than these two in a 2 man midfield.

Of course we had no bans but when you buy Matic, Pogba and Fred for a combined outlay of 190-200m then obviously midfield will be the least of priorities. We had toothless attack during LvG era and our CB options were Smalling and RoJones.

This club aint Manchester City where they replace a recently bought player immediately if they are not good enough (Bravo, Mendy etc). This is a club that allows the player stock to die down completely before they decide to sell them.

The problem is simple. We never get our signings right and that's why we are always in these types of discussions. We make extremely poor signings that set us back at least 3 years in their respective department because we aren't expected to address that spot for atleast the next 2-3 years.
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All that might be true but my point remains the same. I’m not convinced that whilst that some of the fans see it as a problem, the managers see it the same.

Matic, Pogs and Fred signings where now quite some time ago in football terms, we have had 3 managers since then. Like you said, a club like City would replace players if they were good enough but again, that’s assuming the managers think the same.

It funny cause we almost fill in the blanks for why we play them (who else is there?) or not bought anyone (the board who sanction the signing) yet if they were that bad in the managers eyes, they would be sold (Smalling, James, Rom, Sanchez), loaned (Martial, Donny, pereira) or dropped. We haven’t even promoted or played youth players even when we had the opportunity.
 
I can’t work out @Litch argument? Is he arguing they are good players? Or a good pair?

Is a shit manager opting for Sancho in the Summer over a midfielder, somehow proof they are good? Is selecting them ahead of a player (Hannibal) who’s never played a single Premier League minute, proof they are good?

Mourinho spunked his midfield money on Pogba & Matic (and the club bought him Fred). He didn’t play Fred, and McTom didn’t start every week for him at all.

So just 2 managers have played them regularly as a pair, not 3, Ole and RR. Ralf has spent 0 pounds, 0 pence.
So in reality we’re down to one manager that “chose” to have them as his go to pair, and that manager was wank and didn’t care about midfield dominance. Ole-boll at it’s best didn’t really require good midfielders as it bypassed them.
If RR was given any money in January you can bet your house a midfield signing would have been his number one priority.
 
We need better players in midfield, I think its our weakest area. The midfield its so pivotal its affect just about everyone else.
Addressing the midfield should be our priority, I think we need two new starters, I'll take that before any other signing.
 
Isotope said:
RR wanted a DM or two, but couldn't get any. It's clear that he doesn't rate these two. He wanted to play 4-2-2-2 but then realized that those 2 in front of the 4 aren't good enough, thus adjusted to 4-3-2-1.

Also since when Mou rate Fred?
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Tbh I tend not to base my opinion on what the media tells me and more what actually happens. It’s a bit like being linked with over 100 players each transfer window. I think if you ask most managers, they always want new players.

Managers imo rarely play players that they don’t rate, it’s counter productive. You are asking them to do things that either they can’t do or don’t want to. Why else do you think Donny and Tony are out on loan.

If you are in your dream job, the one that only comes around once in a lifetime, are you going to play players that you think will cost you games ultimately costing you it or do you play a system that means they don’t have to play them. Why not play any 3 of Pogs, Matic, Bruno or DVB? You could play Matic for 60mins and bring someone on? If they are that bad, anyone in those positions is an improvement even someone on loan. None of those has happened consistently and when it has recently, we looked just as bad.

Didnt Mou sign him, must have rated him then. Not saying you aren’t right, just saying the evidence is the polar opposite. If they are fit, they play.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
I can’t work out @Litch argument? Is he arguing they are good players? Or a good pair?

Is a shit manager opting for Sancho in the Summer over a midfielder, somehow proof they are good? Is selecting them ahead of a player (Hannibal) who’s never played a single Premier League minute, proof they are good?

Mourinho spunked his midfield money on Pogba & Matic (and the club bought him Fred). He didn’t play Fred, and McTom didn’t start every week for him at all.

So just 2 managers have played them regularly as a pair, not 3, Ole and RR. Ralf has spent 0 pounds, 0 pence.
So in reality we’re down to one manager that “chose” to have them as his go to pair, and that manager was wank and didn’t care about midfield dominance. Ole-boll at it’s best didn’t really require good midfielders as it bypassed them.
If RR was given any money in January you can bet your house a midfield signing would have been his number one priority.
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Not arguing for either. All of that is a truism and on the basis that you and many of the fan base and some in the media think it’s right. What is pretty much factual is if both fit, they have played regular under 2 of the last 3 managers. People explore every reason why they continue to play, I’m saying maybe the managers just rate them more than others do.

All that you have wrote is based on you marking your own homework, maybe the managers see it different. Will be interesting if the new manager see it the same and I wonder what that narrative will be?
 
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