The Manchester Title Race

Pexbo said:
Oh bore off.

Things aren't black and white. What are the other options?

Sign a world class centre mid - £30m? £40m? Wages? Who?

Promote from within - Done it, injured, Cleverley. Pogba not there yet.

It was inspired to bring Scholes back. He retired too early, that's the fact of it. He's still the best CM in the Premiership, he's still fit and he's had 6 months off to freshen up and get his juices flowing.

There is no better player we could have signed in the world than Paul Scholes this January. Class, thoroughbred United player who knows the club and team inside out and has done it all before.


There isn't a single hint of desperation about it. If Scholes offered his services to City in January they'd have bitten his hand off so quickly he'd barely have a shoulder left. I've no doubt Vieira is both jealous of Scholes for doing what he is doing when Vieira couldn't cut it in his brief stint at City and jealous of United for having this luxury. They were probably looking at our midfield "weakness" as the thing that would leave us behind them in the title race and here we are with Scholes performing brilliantly a point ahead of them.
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I dont want to reduce this thread to another CM debate. However having to rely on a 37 yr old is an act of desperation. Our CM is in shambles, our run in Europe showed it and its high time that we tackle the problem rather then expect the golden oldies to keep on delivering.

However as i said before Shitty are in no better state. Their problems are different from ours but equally complex.

PS mistakes were made in Summer and not January. By January it was too late to sort things out.
 
Cling Bak said:
This season:
Played 14, Won 6, Draw 4, Lost 4. GD +4

Significantly better than -16 away from home, losing 8.

They've also held Chelsea and United, as well as beaten Arsenal there.

In terms of losses at home, Fulham, Norwich and Sunderland have the same number. I'd say all of those are tricky away games this season.

Whereas I've read Ewood Park as a tough place to go in here, yet Blackburn more often than not have lost at home this term.
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I think that's the point though. They've been beaten at home as much as the other teams around them in the league. All away fixtures that United/City would expect to win. Which doesn't fit with the whole "fortress" thing. They're no Swansea, that's for sure.
 
Danny1982 said:
SAF wouldn't have brought Tevez back in this situation, after what happened.
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SAF wouldnt have allowed the situation to degenerate like that in the first place. That's the benefit of having an experienced manager whose in total command of his team.
 
Pexbo said:
Oh bore off.

Things aren't black and white. What are the other options?

Sign a world class centre mid - £30m? £40m? Wages? Who?

Promote from within - Done it, injured, Cleverley. Pogba not there yet.

It was inspired to bring Scholes back. He retired too early, that's the fact of it. He's still the best CM in the Premiership, he's still fit and he's had 6 months off to freshen up and get his juices flowing.

There is no better player we could have signed in the world than Paul Scholes this January. Class, thoroughbred United player who knows the club and team inside out and has done it all before.


There isn't a single hint of desperation about it. If Scholes offered his services to City in January they'd have bitten his hand off so quickly he'd barely have a shoulder left. I've no doubt Vieira is both jealous of Scholes for doing what he is doing when Vieira couldn't cut it in his brief stint at City and jealous of United for having this luxury. They were probably looking at our midfield "weakness" as the thing that would leave us behind them in the title race and here we are with Scholes performing brilliantly a point ahead of them.
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But if City go on and win the league, the chances are Tevez will play a role in that and some City fan would be able to write a similar post to that one about Tevez. Still a fantastic striker, experienced in winning titles, gave them something they needed, a lot of shit happened between the club and the player but it is water under the bridge now, yadda yadda yadda. It is desperate to make a U turn when you have been so unequivocal about severing a relationship, but then you can frame that U turn as pragmatism if it suits you to.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I think that's the point though. They've been beaten at home as much as the other teams around them in the league. All away fixtures that United/City would expect to win. Which doesn't fit with the whole "fortress" thing. They're no Swansea, that's for sure.
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No, true. Though I know you probably aren't directing it at me, I never said Britannia is a fortress, I just think it's a game City could slip up in because Stoke's home form keeps them in mid table (where West Brom's, for example, doesn't). Otherwise Stoke are not brilliant.

Whilst City have stumbled a lot away, as we all know.

Given the way they took three points from Chelsea, I expect City to be high on confidence though.
 
devilish said:
I dont want to reduce this thread to another CM debate. However having to rely on a 37 yr old is an act of desperation. Our CM is in shambles, our run in Europe showed it and its high time that we tackle the problem rather then expect the golden oldies to keep on delivering.

However as i said before Shitty are in no better state. Their problems are different from ours but equally complex.

PS mistakes were made in Summer and not January. By January it was too late to sort things out.
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Wow, the football world must be bleak indeed if Manchester United's midfield is 'in shambles' and the club 'desperate'. This is the club in England with the most points. I'd hate to see a football world where the scale goes from 'in shambles' to 'sin against man' before you're even out of the Premiere League, with 6 or 12 good midfielders sprinkled on top. I can't think of a strong enough negative word to use to describe how such a perspective might take the blue square premiere league's midfield quality.
 
Danny1982 said:
SAF wouldn't have brought Tevez back in this situation, after what happened.
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I have said the same thing myself to friends over a beer and I still think you are probably right but that is a fecked up situation they have over there. I wonder whether the difference might not be that SAF would have had the experience not to put himself in a corner, the way Mancini did, so that he had to make such an obvious U turn.

Maybe not. Maybe SAF would have stuck with his principles and made do with what he had. Certainly possibly. City have probably got enough fire power to compete with us to the end without him. And it is a gamble to bring him back from a morale perspective.

So yes, it is a difficult situation, and yes, SAF probably wouldnt have done what Mancini has done. But the fact remains, they have this player who is paid a fortune, nobody wanted to match his wages, they couldnt sell him, he was living in another country... what were they going to do? Let him rot? Nice idea in principle but then what if they fail to win the league, Mancini is going to be under a lot of pressure and will be seen as having cost City a lot of money without delivering anything. This way maybe he helps them win the league, maybe the resolution to this problem internally makes it easier to sell him... I dont know.

I do feel some sympathy for Mancini though. I dont think it is completely clear - like, cant be argued any other way - that it was a mistake to let him come back. I think it was a very tough situation and Mancini made a call and perhaps it was the wrong one and probably it wasnt what I would have done (or SAF) but still. Maybe City go on to win the league, maybe Tevez scores the goal against us that comes to be seen as the goal that won it for them, maybe either that mends bridges between player and club or, following that situation, a club decides to take a punt and match his wages and he gets a move to Italy or something.... and then, all of a sudden, it doesnt look like such a bad move after all. Time will tell.
 
People giving too much credit to City for last night.

Chelsea were dreadful and made little attempt to win the game. Blackburn would've offered a better game.
 
gooDevil said:
Wow, the football world must be bleak indeed if Manchester United's midfield is 'in shambles' and the club 'desperate'. This is the club in England with the most points. I'd hate to see a football world where the scale goes from 'in shambles' to 'sin against man' before you're even out of the Premiere League, with 6 or 12 good midfielders sprinkled on top. I can't think of a strong enough negative word to use to describe how such a perspective might take the blue square premiere league's midfield quality.
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Maybe I went too tough in that post. However the EPL is not passing the best of moments.
 
Zen86 said:
People giving too much credit to City for last night.

Chelsea were dreadful and made little attempt to win the game. Blackburn would've offered a better game.
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Not sure about the Blackburn bit, but agree with your point.

I wouldn't back Chelsea to beat anybody away from home at the moment, let alone a City side desperate for 3 points.

Was just mildly frustrating how close to fluking a win or draw Chelsea got.

City weren't impressive but got the 3 points so job done on there part.

The obvious nerves and jitters from the fans and Mancini was heartening though. Still plenty of games left yet they were shitting it.
 
Utd heap said:
Not sure about the Blackburn bit, but agree with your point.

I wouldn't back Chelsea to beat anybody away from home at the moment, let alone a City side desperate for 3 points.

Was just mildly frustrating how close to fluking a win or draw Chelsea got.

City weren't impressive but got the 3 points so job done on there part.

The obvious nerves and jitters from the fans and Mancini was heartening though. Still plenty of games left yet they were shitting it.
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"Were" being the operative word. Theyll take a lot of encouragement from that game tho.

A draw would have been lovely. City wouldve been happy not to lose but it would still have been in the back of their minds that they no longer had their perfect home record.

They came so damn close.
 
Utd heap said:
Not sure about the Blackburn bit, but agree with your point.

I wouldn't back Chelsea to beat anybody away from home at the moment, let alone a City side desperate for 3 points.

Was just mildly frustrating how close to fluking a win or draw Chelsea got.

City weren't impressive but got the 3 points so job done on there part.

The obvious nerves and jitters from the fans and Mancini was heartening though. Still plenty of games left yet they were shitting it.
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True, Blackburn would've looked more like they gave a shit if they gave up a 1-0 lead though.
 
Utd heap said:
Not sure about the Blackburn bit, but agree with your point.

I wouldn't back Chelsea to beat anybody away from home at the moment, let alone a City side desperate for 3 points.

Was just mildly frustrating how close to fluking a win or draw Chelsea got.

City weren't impressive but got the 3 points so job done on there part.

The obvious nerves and jitters from the fans and Mancini was heartening though. Still plenty of games left yet they were shitting it.
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This exactly. I can't believe people are wetting themselves over this. City were always going to win last night and Chelsea's limp-wristed resistance made it more obvious.

If City fans are instantly forgiving Tevez and hailing him as the messiah then that's even more laughable, considering how little he thinks of them and the club
 
devilish said:
I dont want to reduce this thread to another CM debate. However having to rely on a 37 yr old is an act of desperation. Our CM is in shambles, our run in Europe showed it and its high time that we tackle the problem rather then expect the golden oldies to keep on delivering.

However as i said before Shitty are in no better state. Their problems are different from ours but equally complex.

PS mistakes were made in Summer and not January. By January it was too late to sort things out.
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It's these sort of comments I hate when talking about our midfield. It's hardly perfect, and pales in comparison to the likes of Barcelona, however to say it's a shambles is just incorrect and is doing a huge disservice to the players who have played for us there this season. Are you forgetting how impressive Carrick, for example, has been at times this season, or is he a shambolic midfielder?

Scholes was probably the best option for who we could bring in this January. It's all well and good to say that we could've made a world class signing, but who are you going to get in January? The only way to get a truly world class player is to pay over the odds for them, and we don't have the sort of money to let us do that. In fact, we barely have enough money to sign a midfielder as it is.

Signing Scholes was not an act of desperation. It was a wise, astute transfer for Fergie to make. He's been excellent for us at times, and I don't think you could get anyone better there for free to be honest. Perhaps we should've bought someone at the start of the season, but then again, there's the money, and who would it be? As well as that, hindsight is a wonderful thing to have.
 
Not being funny, but why is Rio Ferdinand saying that you see a lot more fans walking around wearing City shirts these day the LEAD story on the BBC Football homepage?! Seriously...

Slow news day I guess.
 
Is that after last night? Must be a lot less Chelsea fans I guess if that's the case
 
cheesy said:
It's these sort of comments I hate when talking about our midfield. It's hardly perfect, and pales in comparison to the likes of Barcelona, however to say it's a shambles is just incorrect and is doing a huge disservice to the players who have played for us there this season. Are you forgetting how impressive Carrick, for example, has been at times this season, or is he a shambolic midfielder?

Scholes was probably the best option for who we could bring in this January. It's all well and good to say that we could've made a world class signing, but who are you going to get in January? The only way to get a truly world class player is to pay over the odds for them, and we don't have the sort of money to let us do that. In fact, we barely have enough money to sign a midfielder as it is.

Signing Scholes was not an act of desperation. It was a wise, astute transfer for Fergie to make. He's been excellent for us at times, and I don't think you could get anyone better there for free to be honest. Perhaps we should've bought someone at the start of the season, but then again, there's the money, and who would it be? As well as that, hindsight is a wonderful thing to have.
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I have already said that i was too harsh in that post however cm Is weak. It pales in comparision not only to barca CM but also the treble and first double CM, and it was owed by atlethico bilbao CM. I was not against bringing scholes back. However his return was a consequence of bad decisions made in summer where it was evident that our CM was starving for quality. We knew that fletch was sick, that ando had been failing to deliver at a constant lvl for yrs , and that last yr beacon of creativity was nearly 38 yrs of age. Relying on a retired player to bring back some creativity in the side was a wise decision but its also an act of a desperation by a big team which had just been knocked out in one of the easiest CL groups ever. Despite bringing Scholes back we weren't able to give Athletic a run for their money and we're talking here about the 6-7 top side in Spain.
 
Crustanoid said:
This exactly. I can't believe people are wetting themselves over this. City were always going to win last night and Chelsea's limp-wristed resistance made it more obvious.

If City fans are instantly forgiving Tevez and hailing him as the messiah then that's even more laughable, considering how little he thinks of them and the club
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I don't think people are 'wetting' themselves but let's not be blind here, sure Chelsea weren't great but they've been 'on the up' in 3 games leading up to the Etihad clash. And City being 1-0 down against the run of play, didn't panic and turned up the pressure which led to them winning. That's the part that's impressive. If they faltered all of us would be saying 'see, they can't take it'. So let's just give credit where it's due, they overturned a 1-0 deficit under pressure against a top 6 side which is no easy feat, whichever way you look at it. If that was United we'd be saying it's a title winning performance. City showed us that they're not going anywhere anytime soon. They're here for the run in.
 
Stretch said:
I don't think people are 'wetting' themselves but let's not be blind here, sure Chelsea weren't great but they've been 'on the up' in 3 games leading up to the Etihad clash. And City being 1-0 down against the run of play, didn't panic and turned up the pressure which led to them winning. That's the part that's impressive. If they faltered all of us would be saying 'see, they can't take it'. So let's just give credit where it's due, they overturned a 1-0 deficit under pressure against a top 6 side which is no easy feat, whichever way you look at it. If that was United we'd be saying it's a title winning performance. City showed us that they're not going anywhere anytime soon. They're here for the run in.
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Yep, that´s the way I see it too
 
Heh I see Robbo's come out and one upped Vierra. Mind games on. We're in a title race alright.
 
kps88 said:
Heh I see Robbo's come out and one upped Vierra. Mind games on. We're in a title race alright.
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tbf Viera isn't fit to lace Robbo's boots. How much are City paying him to be their Spin Doctor? I wouldn't be surprised if it was more than they pay Tevez, considering if money wasn't the object it's more likely he'd be an ambassador for Arsenal or one of the other clubs he'd played for
 
Northstand said:
What was that then?
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Not much. Basically said we've had too many injuries otherwise we'd be in a much stronger position and said even if we dont win it this time, we'l be much stronger next year as we're unlikely to have this many injuries again.

Also praised scholesy's impact and the others for stepping up. Valencia Carrick Rooney etc..
 
devilish said:
I dont want to reduce this thread to another CM debate. However having to rely on a 37 yr old is an act of desperation. Our CM is in shambles, our run in Europe showed it and its high time that we tackle the problem rather then expect the golden oldies to keep on delivering.

However as i said before Shitty are in no better state. Their problems are different from ours but equally complex.

PS mistakes were made in Summer and not January. By January it was too late to sort things out.
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It's no more an act of desperation than going out and spunking 30-40m on some wonderkid or otherwise who is a risk of being an expensive failure.
 
Well, somebody's definitely going to be bagging the moral victory at the etihad, so it's possible.
 
Zen86 said:
It's no more an act of desperation than going out and spunking 30-40m on some wonderkid or otherwise who is a risk of being an expensive failure.
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We'll end up doing that this year.....hopefully.
 
Northstand said:
What was that then?
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Well, according to everyone favorite football newsblog, http://futbolniprognozi.net, he said the following:

The trainer isn’t meddlesome in a single individual. He is meddlesome in a total group. Not only his first-team patrol though all a kids in a girl group as well as a haven boys. It was a matter to contend he would not mount for which sort of behaviour. „

He continued: „He will regularly clamp down upon something similar to that. When we demeanour during sure managers, we ask either they would have left Rooney out. They had a million injuries in which game. He is fielding a burned out group any way as well as afterwards he says ‘I am not carrying him’ as well as Wayne is left out.

„A lot of managers competence have fined him though put him in since it was an critical diversion as well as they didn’t wish to trip up. The trainer saw a bigger picture.“
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http://futbolniprognozi.net/robson-hails-no-nonsense-ferguson-5521.html

I assume at this point Robson fell off his stool and peed himself.
 
Zen86 said:
But that definitely won't be out of desperation?
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Well considering our results in Europe this year + the fact that Giggs is 1 yr older, Morrison left, Ando is officially an injury prone player and Fletch is sick then we are more desperate this year then last year. Things will get even worse if Pogba leave.
 
devilish said:
Well considering our results in Europe this year + the fact that Giggs is 1 yr older, Morrison left, Ando is officially an injury prone player and Fletch is sick then we are more desperate this year then last year. Things will get even worse if Pogba leave.
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But, that won't be desperate, unlike bringing Scholes back?
 
Stretch said:
I don't think people are 'wetting' themselves but let's not be blind here, sure Chelsea weren't great but they've been 'on the up' in 3 games leading up to the Etihad clash. And City being 1-0 down against the run of play, didn't panic and turned up the pressure which led to them winning. That's the part that's impressive. If they faltered all of us would be saying 'see, they can't take it'. So let's just give credit where it's due, they overturned a 1-0 deficit under pressure against a top 6 side which is no easy feat, whichever way you look at it. If that was United we'd be saying it's a title winning performance. City showed us that they're not going anywhere anytime soon. They're here for the run in.
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I expect them to go all the way too, but for me their home form was never going to be a question. They have been outstanding all season at home, so winning against Chelsea wasn't a turning point for me.

Let's look at their away form instead. Is it 4 points out of the last 6 away games? It's not much better than that even if that is not entirely accurate. They lost convincingly to Swansea despite the scoreline, and they now have tricky away fixtures at Stoke and Arsenal.

If they come through those 2 games having reversed their recent away day blues then i will give them more credit for that than winning at home which they have been doing regularly anyway. The test for City has been away from home, and the next few games will determine whether City have recovered from a tricky spell or whether they have bottled it away from home.
 
I don't know if the Stoke match will actually be one they lose. There's a real hype around Stoke at the Britannia and whilst they are undoubtedly tricky, the way City play should make them favourites. I think Arse away might be problematic for them, and perhaps the Newcastle game later on. City players, manager and fans have got all giddy about a home win against Chelsea and now probably have a bit of a false confidence which can only be good going into the next few games

As for us, our job now is to keep winning and we have the players and manager to do just that
 
One point is obviously a very narrow gap, and they'll go top if they beat Stoke. But I imagine Stoke will give them a tougher game than Chelsea.

I still think we'll win the league.
 
devilish said:
Well considering our results in Europe this year + the fact that Giggs is 1 yr older, Morrison left, Ando is officially an injury prone player and Fletch is sick then we are more desperate this year then last year. Things will get even worse if Pogba leave.
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You keep mentioning our form in Europe and failing to mention the fact we're top of the league, ahead of a team that's spent about £500million in the last 3 seasons, after having a massive injury crisis most of this season whilst the team who've spent £500million have had virtually their whole team fit all season.

We all know we've been poor in Europe this year, but our form in the league shows we're hardly going through a terrible decline.

Although we always seem to be going through a terrible decline actually, if you believe some of the people on here.
 
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