The manager has lost the players

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thedvil said:
Happened at Chelsea a few times, the reason is simple, the players know more than anyone if the management is just not good enough and they feel that keeping it indoors will not make any changes considering who runs things at the top.

Back in the day is back in the day and is not comparable to todays players such as wages, status, social media, power dynamic and media pressure.
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Well if its just the norm now, theres not a lot of hope for stability and discipline at the club, as when players are unhappy (for whatever reason, justified or not) it just acceptable for them to air their dirty laundry via social media through 'rumours'. For all we know that player could be a good lad with genuine problems (donny), or a complete fckin diva who thinks the sun shines out their arse even when in awful form (not pointing at any player in particular, just an example). Neither should be at it IMO
 
thedvil said:
Happened at Chelsea a few times, the reason is simple, the players know more than anyone if the management is just not good enough and they feel that keeping it indoors will not make any changes considering who runs things at the top.

Back in the day is back in the day and is not comparable to todays players such as wages, status, social media, power dynamic and media pressure.
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Back in the day is not the point in that statement, but top manager is. A top manager keeps his whole squad happy (as it was mentioned) and gives everyone a fair chance. When you know you will play if you are better than the other players, you have no argument to go public. You don't here such stories from real top managers today. There are exceptions, but those are usually players that are on their way out anyway.
 
I think it's all mountains out of molehills stuff really... you'd see a lot of similar stuff happening in dressing rooms and team meetings in every football club.

You can see snippets of it all when former players do interviews. You hear about physical fights between team mates and shouting matches with the manager. It's also what I'd expect after a shocking result like the one against Liverpool. The players should be angry.

The bad thing is that you get these little leaks now from frustrated players because that's the world we live in. Every news outlet and journo wants a story and some clowns will give it to them.
 
I honestly don't think he has lost the dressing room.

I think we lost partly because the players are trying to do what they're being asked to do. However, what they're being asked to do is kamikaze, tactically crazy stuff.

There's no sign, to my eyes, that the players have just decided: 'This 424 stuff is utter garbage. Lets just ignore it and play a low block like we used to in big games.' They're running about like headless chickens, evidently trying to press high and carry out the instructions Ole's giving them. Its just the instructions are wrong.

That's kinda what makes the situation worse. Ole has created this situation by stubbornly refusing to see the warning signs, from Villa, from Everton, from Leicester, from Villareal, from Atalanta. The red lights were flashing, BRIGHTLY, and he continued to persist with these tactics that Pogba has questioned, Bruno has questioned, De Gea has questioned. Not just them. Gary Neville has questioned, Rio Ferdinand has questioned, Paul Scholes has questioned. Everyone can see that moving away from the counter attack has hurt us. Yet Ole continues to insist the players do it and, to their credit, the players are trying to do what they're asked even when they clearly doubt it'll work.
 
Ixion said:
Why can't these leaks tell us what Ole said in response.
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There was one report saying that after Bailly confronted Solsjkaer about picking an unfit Maguire over him, Donny said something along the lines of ‘I’m Donny, I played in the CL semifinals two years ago and I barely played since’, to which Ole just answered ‘Nice to meet you’.

Don’t know how true it is.

It seems like Ole has promised many players game time and he hasn’t kept those promises despite not selling them or extending their contracts (in Bailly’s case).
 
This has to happen in order for Ed to sack Ole. Ed can't replace the entire team. Surely sacking Ole is cheaper and makes more economy sense which is the only language Ed understand.
 
It's hard to believe he hasn't lost them when half of them are walking around the pitch in a derby game.
 
I wonder if he really ever had them. The ex Cardiff manager.
 
The whole manager losing the players is overplayed. He hasn't lost the players, he's just incompetent and not up to the job. We don't look crap because the players aren't trying, we look crap because there is no identity in anything we're trying to do, and the tactics often seem to amount to throw some attacking players on there and hope they do something.
 
He's not lost the players. But the players obviously don't believe in his tactics/ coaching and they are rock bottom with confidence. I'm sure they are trying.

To be honest I have also lost belief in his tactics and coaching. He needs to go.
 
I bet there are a few players OGS would love to lose…permanently
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
He's not lost the players. But the players obviously don't believe in his tactics/ coaching and they are rock bottom with confidence. I'm sure they are trying.

To be honest I have also lost belief in his tactics and coaching. He needs to go.
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This.
 
I've always have the belief that for a manager to inspire word class players he must either have a great CV as a coach, to be progressive or recognized as the next big thing or to be such a huge name in the world of football that the players simply have to respect you. Something like Maradona or Zidane.

Ole is neither of those, players like Varane and Cristiano have achieve way more than Ole as a player and have worked with much better managers. So I doubt they're impressed by his man management.

Ole's credentials simply aren't enough to just be a "man management manager". So it's only natural that sooner than later the top players will be fed up and start demanding coaching that goes accordingly to their standards.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
He's not lost the players. But the players obviously don't believe in his tactics/ coaching and they are rock bottom with confidence. I'm sure they are trying.

To be honest I have also lost belief in his tactics and coaching. He needs to go.
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That kind of sounds like losing the players no?
 
golden_blunder said:
You could tell just by watching them today

the result will just reinforce that
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Players are seeing their colleagues/friends just wasting away on the subs bench, and it must surely affect their opinion of Ole.
 
They must love him. Play rubbish yet continue to get picked. His love affair with Maguire in particular highlights this.
The playersseem to have it easy under Ole. Ole will continue to take the heat - and rightly so in large parts - and they get away Scott free.
 
Florida Man said:
That kind of sounds like losing the players no?
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Exactly! I think some have this perception that a manager 'losing the players' has to be a Mourinho like situation. I think it's clear as day that the players have little confidence in him as a manager. Yes, some probably 'like' him, but that's nothing to do with it.
 
If it wasn’t evident he’s lost the players before today then it’s crystal clear now. That was one of the most abject performances I’ve ever seen from a Utd team.
 
Hard to keep the players when the instructions after 3 years lead to constantly getting outplayed despite having a ridiculous squad of players (that is also horribly misused).
 
No he hasnt lost the players. No manager survives losing the players. Not even Ole. Ole is still in a job so the players are still behind him. Yes they all look sht but thats what happens when you change systems and players in out, in out shake it all about, then get spanked by Liverpool and loose confidence and then play City with your hands tied behind your backs because Pep has nullified the 1 percent chance you had with some basic tactics, then made you all look like little children being embarrassed in front of your mum..
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
He's not lost the players. But the players obviously don't believe in his tactics/ coaching and they are rock bottom with confidence. I'm sure they are trying.

To be honest I have also lost belief in his tactics and coaching. He needs to go.
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He's lost the players if they don't believe in his tactics. Them not falling out with him does not mean he's not lost them. It's not improbable that they generally are like the majority of us here who wanted to see Ole do well but have come to a realization that his tactics, gameplan and coaching are not taking us anywhere.

He's a dead man walking. Kind of hard for him to take control of the narrative from here on out. Like Fergie says, once the manager is seen as vulnerable, that's it for him. Anything he says to them would probably be met with a mixture of uncertainty or rolled eyes.
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
He's not lost the players. But the players obviously don't believe in his tactics/ coaching and they are rock bottom with confidence. I'm sure they are trying.

To be honest I have also lost belief in his tactics and coaching. He needs to go.
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Not being picky, but what is the difference.
If the players no longer believe in his tactics etc, he has lost his authority.
And there was little evidence that they were busting a gut for him.
There really is no way back for him.
He isn't going to suddenly become an elite coach now is he.
He is what he is.
 
Buster15 said:
Not being picky, but what is the difference.
If the players no longer believe in his tactics etc, he has lost his authority.
And there was little evidence that they were busting a gut for him.
There really is no way back for him.
He isn't going to suddenly become an elite coach now is he.
He is what he is.
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Difference is, the players probably like him and want to win for him. They are not downing tools. He is causing a confidence issue rather than a revolt!

It is a nuance.

But ultimately performances not good enough so, as I said, he needs to go.
 
I’m not sure this team is able to beat Watford, Norwich etc

In the current state, there are a 5/10% of chances that this squad will be involved in the relegation battle or relegated

Switched off completely, morale devastated, 90% of the players against the manager (you can see it clearly)

In situation like this rarely you can see a turn around
 
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Looks like it on the pitch definitely. I think they still like him as a person but on the pitch it looks like a few aren’t trying. Shaw and Maguire for the 2nd goal.
Confidence looks very low as well.
 
SAFMUTD said:
Ole is neither of those, players like Varane and Cristiano have achieve way more than Ole as a player and have worked with much better managers. So I doubt they're impressed by his man management.
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Well, not many at all have achieved more than those guys, ever...
 
Fluctuation0161 said:
Difference is, the players probably like him and want to win for him. They are not downing tools. He is causing a confidence issue rather than a revolt!

It is a nuance.

But ultimately performances not good enough so, as I said, he needs to go.
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Understood. And agree. He is finished.
 
I'm putting my ass on the line here but could the reason why our home form is so bad is because the grass is too "garlicky"? Saw a Patrice Evra tweet earlier that certainly seemed to suggest as much.
 
Fearthegrimp said:
I'm putting my ass on the line here but could the reason why our home form is so bad is because the grass is too "garlicky"? Saw a Patrice Evra tweet earlier that certainly seemed to suggest as much.
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Isn’t it the same grass opposition teams are playing on at Old Trafford?
 
Yakuza_devils said:
This has to happen in order for Ed to sack Ole. Ed can't replace the entire team. Surely sacking Ole is cheaper and makes more economy sense which is the only language Ed understand.
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Ed's leaving in less than two months himself, I doubt he'll be the one that sacks Ole, he'll leave before Ole probably
 
It's just dawned on me! This is United's version of The Great Resignation! Fight the Machine lads!
 
When your 80 million pound signing and hand picked captain says that they lacked belief on the pitch today, that pretty much is saying your screwed as a manager managing the side. That would never happen under klopp, Guardiola, conte or even probably mourinho despite being past his best
 
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