The main current problem, players or formation ?

[Craig Ward]

Formation doesn't matter and 352 variations open up a lot of decent options in the manager market.
Not scoring goals is our biggest problem. I think you bring a 20 goal a season striker in and we immediately jump up to top 4 side. Basically swap Watkins or Isak for Hojlund and the respective teams would swap positions imo.
I'd look at the current starters as the survivors of our most recent cull which is a thin squad with not enough attacking options. Our options on the wing have largely been too conservative.

Agree we need more goals.

But out current set up is so defensive - it doesn't matter who plays as ST. We don't offer any service to our Striker.

We basically play a back 5 with 2 holding midfielders. We don't pass the ball forward with enough pace or accuracy to the ST, yet alone support him.

Watkins/Isak/Haaland would barely touch the ball with our style of play. Hojlund is the scapegoat for our slow bowing sideways defensive football. It's so hard to watch

 

[wolvored]

Players. TH didnt play any formation other than to appease the players and they still played shit.

 

[sullydnl]

Agree we need more goals.

But out current set up is so defensive - it doesn't matter who plays as ST. We don't offer any service to our Striker.

We basically play a back 5 with 2 holding midfielders. We don't pass the ball forward with enough pace or accuracy to the ST, yet alone support him.

Watkins/Isak/Haaland would barely touch the ball with our style of play. Hojlund is the scapegoat for our slow bowing sideways defensive football. It's so hard to watch

As compared to before Amorim arrived, when Hojlund was getting abundant chances?

The inability to create for our CF was a complaint all last season too, which again points to the players rather than anything Amorim is doing.

 

[Craig Ward]

As compared to before Amorim arrived, when Hojlund was getting abundant chances?

The inability to create for our CF was a complaint all last season too, which again points to the players rather than anything Amorim is doing.

Amorin picks the team. Amorin dictates style of play.

I think our pool of players is poor, but Amorin has to be held accountable also.

5 defenders - 2 holders. And no urgency to pass the ball forward. Grim

 

[Ayoba]

As others have already said, its a bit of both. Whilst its clear we lack quality players, especially upfront, the formation exacerbates the problem. Here are my observations so far with the 5-2-2-1 formation:

1. The 3 CB's dont work well, as this formation requires one of the CBs to push forward (usually Martinez) which leaves huge gaps at the back and Maguire isnt quick enough to cover. A simple long ball and the opposition is through on goal.

2. The WBs basically need to be wingers in this formation as it requires them to support the attack. This is different from a fullback supporting a winger in the traditional 4-3-3 or even 4-4-2 formations where the fullback is often overlapping the winger, therefore has more space to run into. In Amorims system, the WB has to beat a man consistently. Neither Dalot or Mazraoui are wingers so its an unfair ask of them. (I know Dalot did this well against liverpool but he was up against Trent).

3. With just 2 midfielders, they need to be strong and good runners with the ball. Neither Mainoo nor Ugarte are. Think Morgan Rogers, Moussa Dembele, etc. Thats the profile of midfielder we need.

4. Attack. This formation leaves just 3 attackers to try and break down and opposition defense. It's no wonder we struggle to score goals. Once again, an unfair ask on the attackers.


This is not an attack on Amorim or a 'Amorim out' post, before any posters start calling me all the names under the sun. Just observations that i've seen from his games in charge so far!

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Formation doesn't matter and 352 variations open up a lot of decent options in the manager market.
Not scoring goals is our biggest problem. I think you bring a 20 goal a season striker in and we immediately jump up to top 4 side. Basically swap Watkins or Isak for Hojlund and the respective teams would swap positions imo.
I'd look at the current starters as the survivors of our most recent cull which is a thin squad with not enough attacking options. Our options on the wing have largely been too conservative.

Think this is abit too reductionist and to be honest you setting any striker we get up to fail. Unless we massively improve our chance creation and control over games I guarantee you a striker will at most paper over some cracks.

 

[kanobbk]

The answer is quite simple to be honest, and if you're choosing to shirk a decent sized portion of the blame onto Ruben then I'm afraid that you are a part of the problem with this club, and you are actively contributing to the perpetual cycle of poor attitude that has reeked the club out for the past decade. The fault lies with the players, simple.

I strongly suggest that some of you take off the tinted glasses for just a moment and judge our players on their technical 'abilities' and how they carry out (or attempt to) the basics of football. 80%+ of them struggle to carry out a simple 6 yard pass a majority of the time. The Leicester game showed this on many occasions with Amad running down the wing and producing the most lacklustre 1-2 attempt with Mainoo, with both of them failing to find each other in tight spaces MULTIPLE times. It's fine for it to happen the once, but this happened 3/4/5 times... and Amad has been one of better players of late, and that's my point.

The squad overall is NOT good enough. I've said this before and I'll say it again. Out of the teams above us in the league, I'd have every single SQUAD of players other than Palace. If you take off the tinted glasses, you'll see it too. If you don't want to see it, that's fine, we're all entitled to opinions, but just know that this sub standard of football will not improve until the fans accept that the players are not good enough bar Bruno, Ugarte, MdL & Mazra.

Ruben picks the formation, the line-up, playstyle, tactics, instructions etc but he isn't the person that's physically tasked with carrying them out is he? The players are, and they can't do it because they lack the ability to do so. Other than the players I've mentioned above, the rest of our team would not get into the Villa squad for example, or Fulham, Newcastle, Brighton.... it's endless.

The clear out began last summer and is continuing to do so with Rashford, Sancho, Malacia & Antony all on their way out, so the baby steps have started, but we have a LONG way to go, so we need to buckle up, take off the tinted glasses, and get rid of the Player FC mentality that is so strong in this fan base, so we can return to our former glory days.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Recruitment

 

[redshaw]

The squad overall is NOT good enough. I've said this before and I'll say it again. Out of the teams above us in the league, I'd have every single SQUAD of players other than Palace. If you take off the tinted glasses, you'll see it too.

Would Elanga be included?

 

[kanobbk]

Would Elanga be included?

Unsure if you're trying to be clever or sarcastic, but yes, yes he would.

Before your next question is "Would Sancho be included?" then it's clearly a no and you're purposely being facetious.

If you're defending the squad of players that are currently 13th and finished 8th last year, then you do you. We'll instead sack another manager and continue to be Player FC I guess?

 

[Von Mistelroum]

The main problems are:

The playing staff - they are very poor by PL standards, due to years of mismanagement.

Club ethos - this has been 'the work never starts' for years now, lazy players getting huge wages and kicking up a fuss/leaking to the press if they don't get their way.

Finances - again, years of mismanagement have led to a financial crisis where we cannot just replace the players we're burdened with.

Finally, the formation and tactics are playing a part, but this is because we chose to bring in a manager who plays a specific style and formation which we do not have the playing staff to play. This was something the club were aware of, but decided was worth the risk.

 

[Zed 101]

The players, fitness, work rate, attitude, physicality and speed

We are a small, physically weak team

We are so slow to do anything, Maquire at the back takes 5 touches every time he gets the ball, and we are willing to hang our hopes on Mainoo who lacks any intensity 4 games out of every 5, problem is it only takes a couple of players who are slow, overly cautious, not progressive and everything else falls down, it cripples our ability to break lines and attack.

 

[redshaw]

Unsure if you're trying to be clever or sarcastic, but yes, yes he would.

Before your next question is "Would Sancho be included?" then it's clearly a no and you're purposely being facetious.

If you're defending the squad of players that are currently 13th and finished 8th last year, then you do you. We'll instead sack another manager and continue to be Player FC I guess?

Not trying anything.

Just seemed like your comment was a bit over the top and can't help but feel if Elanga was still here he'd be in the same bin as the rest and not singled out as one of your keeps.

 

[kanobbk]

Not trying anything.

Just seemed like your comment was a bit over the top and can't help but feel if Elanga was still here he'd be in the same bin as the rest and not singled out as one of your keeps.

But Elanga is performing in a side that was battling relegation last season and Forest haven't exactly overhauled their team have they? Elanga was shown the door by Erik as he preferred Antony, Rashford and Martial. Are you forgetting this? It's the definition of football eritage, in the words of Mou. And look at those players that Erik favoured, and WHERE they play, IF they play. Comical.

Elanga this season in all comps = 3 goals, 8 assists, 11 GA.

Antony = 2 GA
Martial = 8 GA (For AEK Athens..)
Rashford = 8 GA

Football.. eritage.

 

[Gator Nate]

We have a bunch of midfielders who seem to lack the awareness to create space. Rather than giving the CB's a more open target in the middle of the field, our midfielders seem to prefer to close down the space between themselves and the ball-holding CB. The result is that they usually have two defenders pinching in on them while the ball comes to them, their speed TOWARD the incoming pass increasing the relative speed of the ball, and all they can do is ping it right back at high force to the CB, who might or might not be able to control it if it even comes back directly to them. Now, the CB should have written them off for all of that before attempting the pass, but the midfielders do this so many times a game it drives me nuts.

(Caveat: If the wingers would cut into space behind all that while it was going on, the CB could then pop the ball over to them, but our wingers seldom, if ever, cut into the middle of the field like that.)

One of the reasons Onana has digressed is that our players have no urgency transitioning to an attack when he gets the ball. Last season, you could see the frustration in his face when he got the ball and had no one to send it to. This season, he's given up on them and just hoofs it like De Gea used to do. Or he rolls it to a CB after everyone has cleared back out and the midfielders cozy up to their defenders. See above.

In general, our midfielders lack awareness of what the front line is doing, and when they do see, they lack the ability to make a midrange pass to the correct side of the forwards making the runs. It amazes me how consistently the defenders intercept our passes over their back line.

Our players don't anticipate - they react. And that has been a problem for years through many coaches.

 

[jem]

But Elanga is performing in a side that was battling relegation last season and Forest haven't exactly overhauled their team have they? Elanga was shown the door by Erik as he preferred Antony, Rashford and Martial. Are you forgetting this? It's the definition of football eritage, in the words of Mou. And look at those players that Erik favoured, and WHERE they play, IF they play. Comical.

Elanga this season in all comps = 3 goals, 8 assists, 11 GA.

Antony = 2 GA
Martial = 8 GA (For AEK Athens..)
Rashford = 8 GA

Football.. eritage.

And it's worth noting that in the dumpster fire that was the second half of the 2021-22 season, Elanga was one of a very few who could hold his head up. I'd absolutely have him in this team.