The bit of text overlay at the end is a good example of the gripe I have with this show. Stuff is explained instead of implicated.
House of the Dragon does it too.
House of the Dragon does it too.
Television The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power
- Thread starter DWelbz19
- Start date
The lack of action isn't the problem. It's the awful writing, the cringe inducing dialogue & the fact that the characters in the show are so idiotic & unlikable they make you want to root for Sauron.
It's also got GOT S8 disease of time & distance no longer having relevance as characters zip thousands of miles to and fro because the script demands it and writing is difficult.
It's also got GOT S8 disease of time & distance no longer having relevance as characters zip thousands of miles to and fro because the script demands it and writing is difficult.
I think most of that happened even before or at the very beginning of the show. The main issue that's been raised throughout its airtime was the abhorrent writing. To be fair to them the inclusivity stuff & colour-blind casting was done seamlessly enough. Durin's wife has been alright even though a beard would've been a nice addition — and so has been Arondir (his love line has been a bit cringe but it's not on him).
Oh and I love a good saying as much as the next guy, but if every other line is something along the lines of "what can not be known hollows the mind", it's starting to tick me off.
Other than thay, still enjoy it well enough.
Other than thay, still enjoy it well enough.
A lot of people go on about the writing, but i'd love someone to actually explain what they mean by it. Alongside people whining about the dialogue. Is one line of dialogue enough for people to critise it when 99% of it is fine? I'm not directing this at you in particular, but I hear the example of "bad dialogue" over and over. But where actually is it? Where's this cringe dialogue.
The only part in this particular episode that gave me a double take was the hobbit section near the end. Mainly because the Dads speech seemed to contradict what we'd been told about the hobbit society in general for the past several episodes. But I can accept that maybe he's just trying to rally the troops when it feels hopeless. But the thing that really did take me out was when the mean lady said "I was wrong" only for a few moments later for Lennys character to go "you're never wrong wifey". But she just said she was wrong Lenny!! But that is the only example I can think of this episode and even then it's not cringe dialogue, just contradiction.
I'm actually interested to find out how many people in this thread watch youtube videos and which ones concerning Rings of Power. I watch Nerd of the Rings channel, just so he can jog my memory of some of the lore while also finding out what the stranger says.
I think she's the only character I actually don't like. She's only been put in to be a girl boss but her speech was so unimpressive I wanted to join the orcs. What the elf sees in her is beyond me.
The writers are facing a losing battle no matter what they do, as they'll never be able to replicate Tolkien.
If I turn off my brain its fine. I was going to say the Harfoots haven't done anything this season, they have circumnavigated the whole of middle earth twice over by now with no real story progression. Meanwhile Durin and Elrond have gone back and forth between their cities every other episode about 3 times now. He's sitting on that rock because he cant be arsed to go all the way back home again. Get on with it!
I thought they had shot s2 as well but thankfully they haven't? Should give them time to restructure their plans and quality control.
I thought they had shot s2 as well but thankfully they haven't? Should give them time to restructure their plans and quality control.
I agree, she's the only one I struggle with too.
The dialogue in general (not one line but 90%) is extremely bland and often unfitting the world. The blandness of it makes it tougher to think of examples for obvious reasons, so I'll give an example of a speech that simply doesn't fit in the Tolkien universe. Remember the angry Numenorian trying to rally the crowd against elves using the on-the-nose right-wing trope of "they take our jobs"? He's worried that the immortal elves have an unfair advantage as a fecking workforce.A lot of people go on about the writing, but i'd love someone to actually explain what they mean by it. Alongside people whining about the dialogue. Is one line of dialogue enough for people to critise it when 99% of it is fine? I'm not directing this at you in particular, but I hear the example of "bad dialogue" over and over. But where actually is it? Where's this cringe dialogue.
The only part in this particular episode that gave me a double take was the hobbit section near the end. Mainly because the Dads speech seemed to contradict what we'd been told about the hobbit society in general for the past several episodes. But I can accept that maybe he's just trying to rally the troops when it feels hopeless. But the thing that really did take me out was when the mean lady said "I was wrong" only for a few moments later for Lennys character to go "you're never wrong wifey". But she just said she was wrong Lenny!!
I'm actually interested to find out how many people in this thread watch youtube videos and which ones concerning Rings of Power. I watch Nerd of the Rings channel, just so he can jog my memory of some of the lore while also finding out what the stranger says.
When it's bland, it's really bland. The best comparison would be not a TV-show but a computer RPG game where the lines of dialog are simply there to guide the character through the story. The story itself is laid out in a way that even a 5-year old can follow it where every bit of the important plot information is fully explained (instead of using things like visual narration and context clues), preferably twice.
I'm going to slightly contradict myself as this is technically a partly visual narration, but the whole foreshadowing of Khazad-dûm's eventual fall illustrates it well. First you have the mineshaft's collapse, then a decent speech by Durin-Sr. that hints on the potentially catastrophic consequences of mining deeper & deeper below the mountain for mithril... if you know what happened (and since it's been shown in the movies, most of the viewers know), that's more than enough to create proper suspense. How long did it last? Around 20 minutes before they went on with the leaf-flying scene to show the completely unsuspecting viewers what's actually hiding below the mountain.
Characters lack depth and realistic motivations. Galadriel is the poster child for this, being one of the fans beloved characters — one of the eldest and wisest elves on the continent she takes the personality of an average young adult fantasy movie's teenage protagonist. Elrond & Durin, a pair that is actually one of the positive highlights of the show, are set up in the worst way possible — we don't know anything about their apparent friendship aside from what they tell us themselves in a few sentences at the beginning. And apparently their bond is stronger than life and Durin even considers Elrond to be his brother from another mother. Do we get any background on their time together? No, he just tells Celebrimbor that Durin is a great friend of his actually.
But then the writing is not only about the words themselves, it's about the coherence of the story, the pacing, the stakes that show you that heroes have something to lose (and to gain). It's all been missing aside from a bright spark like Adar (a good antagonist with an interesting motivation who you can begin to actually root for) here and there.
I dunno I'm pretty hardcore on my Tolkien and I think they are scoring above half marks. It's not as good as the LOTR film trilogy but it is better than the Hobbit trilogy. It certainly has the potential to turn into something good - though for now it remains just a tad above mediocre but very pretty.
If they had better dialogue and stopped assuming the viewers were stupid it would probably help a lot. I'd like to see more medieval social attitudes too and less heavily signalled girlboss fetishes.
Also what are the Mordor Orcs going to eat? Clearly Mordor in the book was huge - part of an organised ecocomy with agriculture to the south. TV Mordor is just a volcanic wasteland. Stuff like that just comes across as dumb. The Sauron reveal next week is also going to be dumb and contrived - it will make good TV but make no sense. Tolkien was all about world building and thre's no sense of that here. Characters don't follow the rules of the world.
Last edited:
She is the only human in the Southlands who is clean. Even after a volcanic eruption and arrow wound.
Mute it, put in on as pretty background wallpaper.
This is exactly what I meant when I said it's explained instead of implicated.
The Southlands, Mordor thing being a giant signpost example of it.
I agree, I think some of the dialogue has been excellent. The Hobbit films are a low bar tbf.
"We Harfoots heart's are bigger den our feet! What we do better'n anyone else is stick together!"
(Unless you're injured, then we'll leave you behind to feckin' die)
Which was an especially choice bit of dialogue given they wanted to leave that fellow and his family behind because of a sprained ankle.
And the whole
Celeborn
spent a thousand years chasing rumours of Sauron but not a min looking for her husband who is obviously not dead just so they can do the Halbrand Galadriel sexual tension stuff, with Halbrand either turning out to be Sauron or a Tom Riddle style vessel for him, oh the drama
Last edited:
I was almost literally shouting at my TV at that point. 'Your boss just listed all the people you guys dumped that he had written down in a book.'
Made more stupid by the fact that if he were really dead then as an Elf he would be in the Halls of Mandos which is in Valinor so that would be known about.
Yes, they pick and choose the stuff they want to use, repurpose stuff from better works and the chronology of the show is totally fecked.
None of this would matter if the show was more than a pretty distraction, though in all this I still think the Elrond and Durin stuff is really quite good.
Last edited:
Do you know this is happening?
No it's speculation I just assume it will. I'm discounting the possibility that the writers are better story tellers than I give them credit for.
There’s too many sayings in it imo. Every second line seems to be some profound thing like “where the wind blows, only the leaves know” or some shit.
EDIT: just re-read your post and realised I said the exact same thing
thought your quote was from the show.Since it's esentially fan fiction the writers are doing whatever they like. Finishing the season with a Sauron reveal would make sense. But since there is going to be 5 seasons in all i don't know. In this show they at least have the liberty to show Sauron as he was before the 3rd age and make up whatever they want. Personally I think the baddies are more interesting than the good guys in the show.
Either Celeborn is a prisoner somewhere or he'll be a Glorfindel type character who will be reborn and sent back to Middle Earth by the Valar. That would be my guess.
They've written themselves into a corner where the Sauron reveal is inevitable, even though it's completely obvious who he is. I'm curious to see where they plan to go with it though. After a lifetime of Sauron as an off stage baddy (save for one paragraph in the book) who Peter Jackson dragged onscreen, he's about to complete his century long journey to becoming a misunderstood heart throb.
Well the latter would at least make sense.
Do you think you would have enjoyed this more if you weren't a fan of tolkeins works?
I know you're trying to keep it as a separate medium but that must be tough if you had expectations (assuming you did before the first episode)
It's hard to say. I might not have watched it at all as it isn't very good in many ways. I only reluctantly watched Game of Thrones when it was finally released in 4K HDR a few years later and that turned out to be brilliant until it ran out of source material and the hacks then gained the scope to start taking narrative shortcuts. This has the same feel to it.
Anyway I don't hate it. It has huge scope for improvement but I'm sceptical that we will see it.
About Sauron being obvious. Sure, but only if you're a fan. The vast majority are aren't into Tolkien lore.
This is assuming he's right about him being Sauron. Which he may not be.
If he is Sauron then it doesn't explain how the trees have become diseased in Lindon. Are they really diseased or is it just an illusion that Mithril dispels.
Wait, who is obviously Sauron?
Yes but knowing how Sauron was a master manipulater, stayed in Numenor, was a shapeshifter and then based on that assuming he's Halbrand could only be deduced by a fan. The rest will be utterly confused.
The decay in Lindon is actually cannonical although heavily exaggerated as a TV device and nothing to do with Mithril. It was the will of the Valar that the Elves would fade from Middle Earth along with their works. The Rings were a way of countering that, which is why Rivendell and Lothlorien (and the Havens till Cirdan gave the third ring away) survived the Third Age as Elven kingdoms. The chief of the three Elven rings was made of Mithril - looks like Elrond has just enough with that nugget to get the job done.
That's why King Durin was right to say no and knows his canon. If you defy the will of the Valar then the fates turn against you. I actually prefer this version of the fall of Moria to the Tolkien twice used trope of Dwarves being driven from their homelands due to their own greed and selfishness (which is a mishmash of being driven forth from Israel as punishment for Jesus, and medieval anti-semitism about money-lending, keeping in mind Tolkien's dwarves were based on Jews, not Glaswegians.)
Last edited:
According to who? The man himself?
Wait, who is obviously Sauron?
Well, maybe Rings of power will get better as the series progresses. Some shows need a season or two to figure what works and what doesn't and they get better. But no guarantees on that of course.
I've heard good things about house of the dragon and it is backed by GRR Martin himself, but haven't watched it. Still hesitant since GoT ended so badly. Is it worth a shot? Thinking to try it after the season has ended.
Genuine question - has it actually been confirmed anywhere that Sauron has even appeared in the show yet? Or are we all just assuming that he's an existing character?
No, that’s probably one of the odds-on favorite outcomes along with Halbrand, The Stranger, Eminem, Adar, Gil-galad, Daemon, and Isildur’s sister.
House of dragon is bloody brilliant. Yeah I was unsure the first episode but it's really done very well so far. Hopefully they'll have a better idea where they are going on the 2nd season. Even the best shows needed that 2nd season to take off right.
Found below two stuff bit odd. Seems a decent show but with the budget involved, i find the writing not on the level i expected.
Is there any other reason why Halbrand suddenly becomes the king of southlands? Is he the King just because Galadriel finds him with the locket in the middle of the Ocean while swimming? Am i missing something here or the writing of some parts is extremely poor?
Also I found it weird that Galadriel didnt bother opening the Key sword that Adar was carrying.
Spot on. I call it lazy story telling. It's like the writers stopped caring and just took the brain dead easy way out.
That's why Galadriel jumping off a ship in the middle of the ocean to swim across said ocean seems sensible to them. And finding a key character while floating across the bloody ocean. Not once. But twice. It's lazy and contrived. The writers just could not be bothered.
I've always said. If the story was good, nobody would be complaining about being true to the lore. The problem is that the story is shite. So people wind up complaining about everything. They sacrificed the lore for this shite?
Rocks look down. Boats look up.
There's so much that's crappy.
Rocks look down. Boats look up
"You've not seen, what I've seen." "I've seen my fair share". "You've NOT SEEN WHAT I'VE SEEN"
The sea is always right.
Galadriel begging for Numenorean help by threatening them.
If they actually spent some of their purported 1 billion dollar budget on a literature professor, they'd have probably come up with better lines.
Gotta agree. The Elrond Durin bromance is the best part about the show so far.
And a thousand year old Galadriel written like a teenage asshole really puts people off. And the show rewards her asshole behavior.
Contrived. The word you're looking for is contrived. The writers demand certain plot lines. They couldn't be bothered to actually write a coherent story to meet those plot lines. So they just force everything to bend to whatever they want. Whether it makes sense is irrelevant.
Galadriel wants to leave Numenor. The Numenoreans distrust her and want to get rid of her. Conclusion? Of course the Numenoreans logically keep her on the island with minimal supervision and give her freedom to roam. Why? Because the writers demand it.
Yeah, they already declared they will not follow the lore and they will compress the timeline. I don't blame them for this. I do, however, blame them for sacrificing the lore for shite writing.
And yeah, I agree the Elrond Durin stuff is probably one of the few parts of the story I actually liked. The story sympathizes with Adar more than it does with Galadriel. What can we expect, right?