The Kanye West video clip from the NBC TV Fundraiser for Hurricane Katrina victims

MUFC187 said:
That's a bit strong isn't it?

Although Michael Moore gets booed a lot doesn't he?
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why don't they have the right to express their opinion of Kanye West?

why should his opinion be the only one that matters?

you also have not adressed his other comments in the video about them "coming to down there to kill us."


maybe he's the one off base.




and Michael Moore gets booed, because like Kanye West, he throws around totally incorrect "facts" that are wild speculation at best, and present them as "fact".

my mother is the most dyed in the wool liberal democrat around...and she despises Michael Moore and turned off Bowling for Columbine because she was so disgusted by it. and she as am I is pro- gun control.

whatever intelligent point of view Michael Moore makes and he does have one here and there, he promptly destroys the credibility of by then going off the deep end and utterly obliterating the point in a jumble if bullshit.

If Mr. West has said..."why is nobody helping these poor people, all of whom are suffering" I suspect he would have got a lot more sympathy and support than his silly misguided comments and accusations of troops being sent down there to "kill us".
 
Well to be fair there have been a few looters that have been shot by police.
 
Well Well it all boils down to this.The black community in America is bieng misled by Rap music.The so called 'Gangsta Rap' is responsible for the present problems.Most people these days think that it is the coolest form of music and there are millions who idolize Dr.Dre,50 cent.....Kanye is a bit different.He atleast stays away from the violence and is more concerned with the problems.But whether his intentions are towards raising public issues or for 'blinking dolla signs',he only knows.We all know that Dr.Dre,Tupac,50 cent,G-Unit,NWA and Eminem.....are zealously idolized by millions.Their records are all about owning 'AK's,'Mothafecka ill break ur face','Hustling','Bulletproof vests','9mm','15 shots','Smoking dope','Cocaine dreams','Gangbangin'.......This is an interesting line from a song called 'Say what you Say' by Dre and Eminem....
[Dr. Dre]
Now anybody who knows Dre
knows I'm about fast cars and Alize, partyin all day
But I handle my business cause it's work before play
Don't look for trouble but I'll serve you gourmet
However you want it, you can have it your way
You feck my night up I'ma feck up your day
Bullet with your name, sendin it your way {*clack*}
That goes for anyone who walks through that doorway
Cause this is my space, you invade it, live to regret it
and you die tryin to violate it
feck around, get annihilated; eyes dilated

And this sort of hate lyrics are respected by many in the black community.
The sad thing is that the majority of the black kids from the ghetto these days beleive that becoming a 'gangsta' is the what he must aim for.'Hustling' is the only way to be succesful in life.......
I live in canada and I don't think there are any such problems here.Its because people are not so attached towards the violence.Ofcourse rap and hip-hop is very much popular here.But people here are more into the party rap rather than the violence.
Rappers can talk about parites,about sex,about money....but singing about owning guns and intentions to kill others must definitely stop.
Ofcurse there is a marilyn manson equally responsible for a lot of shit happening as well.But the number of people idolizing him are a lot less than the number of people falling for the violence in rap these days.

And mind me,I love hip-hop.I just don't appreciate the the violence it bring along.
 
MUFC187 said:
Well to be fair there have been a few looters that have been shot by police.
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Because they were looting or shooting at people or becaue they were "my people"? :rolleyes:
 
Kaush949 said:
Well Well it all boils down to this.The black community in America is bieng misled by Rap music.The so called 'Gangsta Rap' is responsible for the present problems.Most people these days think that it is the coolest form of music and there are millions who idolize Dr.Dre,50 cent.....Kanye is a bit different.He atleast stays away from the violence and is more concerned with the problems.But whether his intentions are towards raising public issues or for 'blinking dolla signs',he only knows.We all know that Dr.Dre,Tupac,50 cent,G-Unit,NWA and Eminem.....are zealously idolized by millions.Their records are all about owning 'AK's,'Mothafecka ill break ur face','Hustling','Bulletproof vests','9mm','15 shots','Smoking dope','Cocaine dreams','Gangbangin'.......This is an interesting line from a song called 'Say what you Say' by Dre and Eminem....
[Dr. Dre]
Now anybody who knows Dre
knows I'm about fast cars and Alize, partyin all day
But I handle my business cause it's work before play
Don't look for trouble but I'll serve you gourmet
However you want it, you can have it your way
You feck my night up I'ma feck up your day
Bullet with your name, sendin it your way {*clack*}
That goes for anyone who walks through that doorway
Cause this is my space, you invade it, live to regret it
and you die tryin to violate it
feck around, get annihilated; eyes dilated

And this sort of hate lyrics are respected by many in the black community.
The sad thing is that the majority of the black kids from the ghetto these days beleive that becoming a 'gangsta' is the what he must aim for.'Hustling' is the only way to be succesful in life.......
I live in canada and I don't think there are any such problems here.Its because people are not so attached towards the violence.Ofcourse rap and hip-hop is very much popular here.But people here are more into the party rap rather than the violence.
Rappers can talk about parites,about sex,about money....but singing about owning guns and intentions to kill others must definitely stop.
Ofcurse there is a marilyn manson equally responsible for a lot of shit happening as well.But the number of people idolizing him are a lot less than the number of people falling for the violence in rap these days.

And mind me,I love hip-hop.I just don't appreciate the the violence it bring along.
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I half agree with you in that hip-hop is definatley over agressive although you must remember that the music reflects the violence in their communities, a lot of these rappers are writing from the experiences that their background has given them.
Hip-Hop certainly didn't create gun violence, it was already there, when these rappers talk about beeing shot or hustling they are usually talking about true life experiences, just like many artists in other genres, it's just that thier reality really is this harsh.
I must say though, Hip-Hop artists certainly don't help the situation, very rarely do Hip-Hop artists try to become a strong role model that the communities, they know as well as anyone, desperatley need.
 
MUFC187 said:
I half agree with you in that hip-hop is definatley over agressive although you must remember that the music reflects the violence in their communities, a lot of these rappers are writing from the experiences that their background has given them.
Hip-Hop certainly didn't create gun violence, it was already there, when these rappers talk about beeing shot or hustling they are usually talking about true life experiences, just like many artists in other genres, it's just that thier reality really is this harsh.
I must say though, Hip-Hop artists certainly don't help the situation, very rarely do Hip-Hop artists try to become a strong role model that the communities, they know as well as anyone, desperatley need.
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True that they came through a hard life.But they should rather sing about how to avoid it rather than brag about how many times they had got shot or how they run the city.Nas has impressed me with the song 'I can'.Thats one sensible song.
 
If we got any more sidetracked and irrelevant we could take part in a telethon.
 
Damn how did I miss this huh? I certainly have my opinion on this whole saga...But I dont have time to post it now...I will later...for now:

Dont even try and use the whole Rap/HipHop promotes violence bullshit argument. Its utter bollocks and shows your ignorance of the music. Firstly, ever heard about label politics? All the major record labels (even Aftermath) are controlled by white people who quite frankly don't give a damn about upliftment. For them they have one aim in mind and that is to make money. What sells? Gangsta Rap...Just ask the folks over at Interscope, mother label of Aftermath/Shady. Most of these rappers come form difficult/poor backgrounds and they will jump at the oppurtunity to 'get out of the hood'. I can use Nas as an example, his It Was Written albums and I Am albums had content on there which he did not approve himself but was requested by the people who pays his cheque. Bare in mind at the time Nas was one of the big shots in Rap and yet he could not dictate what he wanted on his records.

Secondly, like was said before, they rap about their life experiences. It is not rap's fault that the black communities are poverty stricken. Even if rap music was not around or rapped about positive things, gangsterism will still exist in the USA. Why you ask? I can use South Africa as an example here: Over here nobody was making music about shooting people yet gangsterism/voilence is a serious problem in South Africa. It is because of the 'Racial Group Areas Act' and the injustices that the Police (who are meant to protect and serve) were committing against communities of colour. The first gang started in SA started from a braul witht he Police, after an officer assualted an elderly from the local community. I challenge you to investigate further into why there are gangs in the USA. I can guarentee you it does not have much to do with rap music.

Thirdly, even though most of them 'promote' violence, the media will have you believe they do nothing for their communities. Quite the contrary, let me list a few:

The Hip-Hop foundation started by the likes of Russel Simmons, KRS-1 etc are urging hip-hoppers to participate in elections and they encourage the overall upliftment of the black communities.

50Cent and The Game not too long ago squashed their 'beef' to donate over $1million in total to help poor black communities.

Nas, Nelly and Jay-Z were amongst the first people to donate money after 9/11, in fact, not many people will tell you this but Jay-Z donates regularly (generously) to his old project, Marcy.

Those are just some of the facts. And yes, MUFC187 is right when he says that the view of Kanye is the view of most black Americans and other black people in the world. If you don't believe, why not just go refer to comments by KRS-1, Nas (listen to his songs 'American Way'/'My Country', Common, Talib, Mos Def even from the Latino community. HipHop and Rap has made no secret of it that they think the government does not give a shit about their people. This includes blacks and latinos.

I have run out of time here so gotta run...will reply again
 
Stretch said:
Damn how did I miss this huh? I certainly have my opinion on this whole saga...But I dont have time to post it now...I will later...for now:

Dont even try and use the whole Rap/HipHop promotes violence bullshit argument. Its utter bollocks and shows your ignorance of the music. Firstly, ever heard about label politics? All the major record labels (even Aftermath) are controlled by white people who quite frankly don't give a damn about upliftment. For them they have one aim in mind and that is to make money. What sells? Gangsta Rap...Just ask the folks over at Interscope, mother label of Aftermath/Shady. Most of these rappers come form difficult/poor backgrounds and they will jump at the oppurtunity to 'get out of the hood'. I can use Nas as an example, his It Was Written albums and I Am albums had content on there which he did not approve himself but was requested by the people who pays his cheque. Bare in mind at the time Nas was one of the big shots in Rap and yet he could not dictate what he wanted on his records.

Secondly, like was said before, they rap about their life experiences. It is not rap's fault that the black communities are poverty stricken. Even if rap music was not around or rapped about positive things, gangsterism will still exist in the USA. Why you ask? I can use South Africa as an example here: Over here nobody was making music about shooting people yet gangsterism/voilence is a serious problem in South Africa. It is because of the 'Racial Group Areas Act' and the injustices that the Police (who are meant to protect and serve) were committing against communities of colour. The first gang started in SA started from a braul witht he Police, after an officer assualted an elderly from the local community. I challenge you to investigate further into why there are gangs in the USA. I can guarentee you it does not have much to do with rap music.

Thirdly, even though most of them 'promote' violence, the media will have you believe they do nothing for their communities. Quite the contrary, let me list a few:

The Hip-Hop foundation started by the likes of Russel Simmons, KRS-1 etc are urging hip-hoppers to participate in elections and they encourage the overall upliftment of the black communities.

50Cent and The Game not too long ago squashed their 'beef' to donate over $1million in total to help poor black communities.

Nas, Nelly and Jay-Z were amongst the first people to donate money after 9/11, in fact, not many people will tell you this but Jay-Z donates regularly (generously) to his old project, Marcy.

Those are just some of the facts. And yes, MUFC187 is right when he says that the view of Kanye is the view of most black Americans and other black people in the world. If you don't believe, why not just go refer to comments by KRS-1, Nas (listen to his songs 'American Way'/'My Country', Common, Talib, Mos Def even from the Latino community. HipHop and Rap has made no secret of it that they think the government does not give a shit about their people. This includes blacks and latinos.

I have run out of time here so gotta run...will reply again
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I dunno about this label politics but I doubt that really has anything to do with Dr.Dre singing about using his AK and blah blah.....There are hardly any rappers at all who encourage their youngsters to get education and come up in life.They rather rap about fecking bitches and how they make money through drug trade.And kids who have them as role models tend to do the wrong things instead of the right ones.Ok..Gangsta Rap does not totally influence gangsterism but it does have some impact on it.Thats why poor black kids prefer selling drugs for cash rather than going to school when free education is provided.I really dunno about the government and their attitude towards the black people so I am not commenting on that.My point is that if the gangsta rap reduces its rant on violence and drugs,it would definitely, reduce the crimes across America.
 
Stretch said:
The Hip-Hop foundation started by the likes of Russel Simmons, KRS-1 etc are urging hip-hoppers to participate in elections and they encourage the overall upliftment of the black communities.

50Cent and The Game not too long ago squashed their 'beef' to donate over $1million in total to help poor black communities.

Nas, Nelly and Jay-Z were amongst the first people to donate money after 9/11, in fact, not many people will tell you this but Jay-Z donates regularly (generously) to his old project, Marcy.
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Yes,they may be generous,but can you tell me, Has 50 cent never been arrested assault ? Has G-Uint never been arrested for having arms ? Has Tupac never been arrested for rape ? Has BIG never been arrested for possesing drugs ?
 
Kaush949 said:
I dunno about this label politics but I doubt that really has anything to do with Dr.Dre singing about using his AK and blah blah.....There are hardly any rappers at all who encourage their youngsters to get education and come up in life.They rather rap about fecking bitches and how they make money through drug trade.And kids who have them as role models tend to do the wrong things instead of the right ones.Ok..Gangsta Rap does not totally influence gangsterism but it does have some impact on it.Thats why poor black kids prefer selling drugs for cash rather than going to school when free education is provided.I really dunno about the government and their attitude towards the black people so I am not commenting on that.My point is that if the gangsta rap reduces its rant on violence and drugs,it would definitely, reduce the crimes across America.
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Your ignorance of label politics shows you know little about Rap/Hip-Hop music. Even the great KRS-1 succumbed to label politics when he started out. I can qoute you endless examples of label politics, situations where the artist wants to one thing and the label (people who pays him) demands another. To say that Rap music promotes gangsterism/violence is like saying watching movies encourages voilence. You can't blame the movie producers for that nor can you blame Rappers for that. People love that type of music (look at 50 Cent and G-Unit sales) and that is why labels demand this type of music.

If you had to take away gangsta rap completely nothing will change. In fact, rap has nothing to do with growth in gangsterism and violence. I refer you to my first post where I used SA as an example of this. You need to think of the ROOT cause of gangsterism/violence. You know what it is? Poverty!

Oh and by the way, don't get it twisted...Tupac was falsely accused of rape. And yeah, 50 Cent was charged for assualt...So what? When someone assualts somebody it has nothing to do with music but everything to do with the fact that the person himself is just aggresive in general.

You talk about free education but would you want to go to school when people are killing each other over there? When teachers arent rocking up for class? When you getting thought white america's history when you want to find out about your heritage? When the school has limited resources and teachers?

In fact, what do you do if you're the eldest and nobody at the house has a job? You can't find a job since your the wrong sking colour so what do end up doing? Hustling...thats pretty much the story of the average black american male. It's a fecked up life and it seems you know little about it.
 
So your conclusion is that its better for a black kid to hustle rather than going to school ?.I don't get how people can 'kill' each other at school and not kill each other while gangbanging.
 
Maybe you lot should start a thread on rap and social responsibility or something. You are so way off topic this one is going to be shut soon.
 
I must just clear one aspect of this up and that is the idea that the young kids go and shoot people/sell drugs because they idolise rappers who talk about it, that is simply not true.

These kids are copying someone, they are idolising someone and getting these negative values from someone but it is not a rapper. It is the guy on their street, the guy on their block who is richer than everyone else, has everyone else's respect and is regarded as a success story in that area. The guy that everyone talks about as the one that nobody wants to mess with and the guy who basically runs the block and has everything he wants.

I'm sure if you asked 50 Cent who he learned all his street ways from, where he learned about selling drugs and having guns, he wouldn't tell you it came from listening to N.W.A. It is far more likely that he learned it all from a friend, relative or local member of his community who was using these things to make a comfortable and seemingly attractive life for themselves.
 
FresnoBob said:
Rather than match number of nations visited--try matching up the number of miles travelled. You'll find that Americans travel quite a bit. It isn't our fault you live in some postage stamp land and need to get out of it to find a place fit for a vacation.
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That last comment might have been funny if fat yanks weren't vacatinoning in my country rather than me vacationing in there's.. so feck off
 
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