The John Murtough Era

[Rightnr]

Awful at buying and selling. Looks like nothing has changed.

I think this summer has been a bit of bust buying-wise but the selling we can judge in 2-3 years when players this regime has bought have to be moved on.

Hard to hold Telles's wages against Murtough but if we have to do the same with Malacia, for example, then it's the same shit with a different paint on top

 

[Andycoleno9]

Year by year, club is trying to do something "new" and fans buy that shit.
Football at hoghest level is pretty simple. It us not some complicated science.
You hire best DoF around, best manager around, best chief of scouts, best CEO etc....and that is it.
They WILL do their job. We are still trying and trying and trying to do it in "United way". By hiring former club members because they "know the club" and promoting people from club because "they did amazing job on previous position".
We had Ragnick who is great exactly on DoF position but still we hired "one of our own". That is why we are where we are. On 6th position and this year we are not even among favorites for top 4.

Murtough is incompetent. You don't need time to realise that

 

[kaiser00]

He is incompetent. That meeting he had in the pub with the fans showed him up as a wannabe. We will be clambering for his head before xmas, mark my words!

 

[JJ12]

He is incompetent. That meeting he had in the pub with the fans showed him up as a wannabe. We will be clambering for his head before xmas, mark my words!

That wasn’t John Murtough.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I hadn't even heard of Sesko until he scored against Liverpool. United fans go crazy on social media about him scoring one goal. Suddenly Murtough is chasing him.
Does no sound like great scouting to me. More like desperation.

Very possibly, but least it’s DOF starting to act like a DOF.

 

[kaiser00]

That wasn’t John Murtough.

Damn! right enough it was Arnold. All these suits look a like to me!

 

[Caesar2290]

Year by year, club is trying to do something "new" and fans buy that shit.
Football at hoghest level is pretty simple. It us not some complicated science.
You hire best DoF around, best manager around, best chief of scouts, best CEO etc....and that is it.
They WILL do their job. We are still trying and trying and trying to do it in "United way". By hiring former club members because they "know the club" and promoting people from club because "they did amazing job on previous position".
We had Rangnick who is great exactly on DoF position but still we hired "one of our own". That is why we are where we are. On 6th position and this year we are not even among favorites for top 4.

Murtough is incompetent. You don't need time to realise that

With all due respect, this is a bunch of hogwash.

Plenty of teams hire ex-players into the board room. Some of those teams are cited as the ones we should emulate. Does Bayern ring any bells?

As for the Dof who is even the best DoF our there? When Liverpool hired Edwards, was he the best Dof around as well? Spare me the drama.


As for Ragnick, what the feck did he do to merit such accolades? Did he win anything during his tenure or did he simply create a brand for himself based in his work at Red Bull by being financially dopped and still being a nobody. Do yourself a favor ask. @Hansi Fick what he thinks of him. You know someone who actually watched him for decades, and warned us that he will turn out a complete train wreck of an appointment. But you for some reason know that he would have been a sucess here simply because he was an outsider.

The only reason we are in this mess is because The Rock of fecking Gibraltar. Period.


Had that thing not occurred, the Glazers would have never come into the ownership of the club, and Woody would have never had infinite goodwill to do as he pleases and leave us in this mess that suddenly Mortough is responsible for.

For fecks sake SAF needed 4 years to turn it around, and yet Mortough is supposed to do it in under 6 months or he is useless.

Shocking post from someone who thinks De Gea still has got it. Tired of you complaining drama queens.

 

[Andycoleno9]

With all due respect, this is a bunch of hogwash.

Plenty of teams hire ex-players into the board room. Some of those teams are cited as the ones we should emulate. Does Bayern ring any bells?

As for the Dof who is even the best DoF our there? When Liverpool hired Edwards, was he the best Dof around as well? Spare me the drama.


As for Rangnick, what the feck did he do to merit such accolades? Did he win anything during his tenure or did he simply create a brand for himself based in his work at Red Bull by being financially dopped and still being a nobody. Do yourself a favor ask. @Hansi Fick what he thinks of him. You know someone who actually watched him for decades, and warned us that he will turn out a complete train wreck of an appointment. But you for some reason know that he would have been a sucess here simply because he was an outsider.

The only reason we are in this mess is because The Rock of fecking Gibraltar. Period.


Had that thing not occurred, the Glazers would have never come into the ownership of the club, and Woody would have never had infinite goodwill to do as he pleases and leave us in this mess that suddenly Mortough is responsible for.

For fecks sake SAF needed 4 years to turn it around, and yet Mortough is supposed to do it in under 6 months or he is useless.

Shocking post from someone who thinks De Gea still has got it. Tired of you complaining drama queens.

. Same De Gea who is voted as player of the year?

 

[Coops73]

Right now the John Murtough era doesn’t seem so different from the Ed Woodward era if I’m being honest.

Time will tell obviously and we still have a month or so to go but I’m really not getting good vibes.

 

[Tango80]

With all due respect, this is a bunch of hogwash.

Plenty of teams hire ex-players into the board room. Some of those teams are cited as the ones we should emulate. Does Bayern ring any bells?

As for the Dof who is even the best DoF our there? When Liverpool hired Edwards, was he the best Dof around as well? Spare me the drama.

People will bang out the same name when you say this, and that name is Mitchell.

Fans are fickle though. Like you, I can't name many DoFs outside of Mitchell. That's because most of the other good ones are quietly going about their business.

Is Murtough a bad DoF? We don't know. A DoF does so much more than just player recruitment. If in three to five years time we've regressed, then yes he's not doing a good job. If we've got better, he is. Simple as that.

 

[VP89]

Right now the John Murtough era doesn’t seem so different from the Ed Woodward era if I’m being honest.

Time will tell obviously and we still have a month or so to go but I’m really not getting good vibes.

Its completely different. Woodward would have likely got 5-6 signings, half of which would be panic. Dybala I think would have been a cert under Woodward. Im glad we aren't doing that.

 

[Dante]

Awful at buying and selling. Looks like nothing has changed.

Not true, imo. Especially on the buying front.

United in the last 10 years have paid the asking price (or occasionally more than the asking price) on all our signings. Woodward was the worst negotiator known to man.

This summer, we may not have bought a lot. But we haven't been mugged at any exorbitant prices either. That's a huge difference. Under the old regime, we would have overpaid for Antony and offered up FdJ's deferred wages by now. That's no way to run a football club.

It may take another window or two for selling clubs to realise that we won't throw money at them on every deal. But it has to start somewhere and they'll start to treat us like a cost-conscious buyer eventually. Short term pain for long term gain.

 

[Tiber]

I still dont know why we appointed a guy who had never bought a (non schoolboy) player in his life never mind built a title winning side.

 

[Nicoseth]

Well, it's not been great John.

 

[sunama]

Well, it's not been great John.

It's been an unmitigated disaster. ETH is being set up to spectacularly fail. Everything is proceeding as I expected it to.
6th place is what I predicted before the Summer transfer window and I see no need to change my prediction.
I also said that ETH will not win any trophies with us and I stand by this.

 

[Garethw]

Are we sure that he’s not just Ed Woodward with one of those mission impossible rubber masks on?

This summer window should have been a statement of intent by the club. Instead it’s been a fecking disaster.

 

[Yakuza_devils]

We need a big transfer window after last season disaster. Instead, for the first game of the season, most likely McFred will start in midfield and Rashford, Martial and Elanga to play in attack.

 

[Greck]

With all due respect, this is a bunch of hogwash.

Plenty of teams hire ex-players into the board room. Some of those teams are cited as the ones we should emulate. Does Bayern ring any bells?

As for the Dof who is even the best DoF our there? When Liverpool hired Edwards, was he the best Dof around as well? Spare me the drama.


As for Rangnick, what the feck did he do to merit such accolades? Did he win anything during his tenure or did he simply create a brand for himself based in his work at Red Bull by being financially dopped and still being a nobody. Do yourself a favor ask. @Hansi Fick what he thinks of him. You know someone who actually watched him for decades, and warned us that he will turn out a complete train wreck of an appointment. But you for some reason know that he would have been a sucess here simply because he was an outsider.

The bolded in a nutshell:

Post' There's nothing wrong with hiring unproven ex-players with little qualifications.
So what about Rangnick?
Post: feck him, he has no achievements and is unproven.

 

[Judas]

I have to chuckle how long ago it seems people were praising him, it was this summer! Funny how quickly things can change.

Still too early to judge for me.

 

[Champ]

With all due respect, this is a bunch of hogwash.

Plenty of teams hire ex-players into the board room. Some of those teams are cited as the ones we should emulate. Does Bayern ring any bells?

As for the Dof who is even the best DoF our there? When Liverpool hired Edwards, was he the best Dof around as well? Spare me the drama.


As for Rangnick, what the feck did he do to merit such accolades? Did he win anything during his tenure or did he simply create a brand for himself based in his work at Red Bull by being financially dopped and still being a nobody. Do yourself a favor ask. @Hansi Fick what he thinks of him. You know someone who actually watched him for decades, and warned us that he will turn out a complete train wreck of an appointment. But you for some reason know that he would have been a sucess here simply because he was an outsider.

The only reason we are in this mess is because The Rock of fecking Gibraltar. Period.


Had that thing not occurred, the Glazers would have never come into the ownership of the club, and Woody would have never had infinite goodwill to do as he pleases and leave us in this mess that suddenly Mortough is responsible for.

For fecks sake SAF needed 4 years to turn it around, and yet Mortough is supposed to do it in under 6 months or he is useless.

Shocking post from someone who thinks De Gea still has got it. Tired of you complaining drama queens.

Apart from the De Gea comment I agree wholeheartedly with this.

Sir Alex always stayed his desire to be like Bayern Munich, as in promote from within in order to keep the culture consistent at the club.
That's what United are doing, and with the structural changes throughout the club recently I think it's clear that Murtough along with Arnold, has been working hard.
The benefits of these changes won't be felt straight away but will allow the club the reap the rewards over the distance.

It's just a shame that some fans only look at shiny new transfers as a benchmark of success.

 

[devilish]

I hate to say I told you so because deep down I hoped that I was wrong on this. I wonder what the adnans think at this point. Can they admit that they were ridiculously wrong?

 

[devilish]

Apart from the De Gea comment I agree wholeheartedly with this.

Sir Alex always stayed his desire to be like Bayern Munich, as in promote from within in order to keep the culture consistent at the club.
That's what United are doing, and with the structural changes throughout the club recently I think it's clear that Murtough along with Arnold, has been working hard.
The benefits of these changes won't be felt straight away but will allow the club the reap the rewards over the distance.

It's just a shame that some fans only look at shiny new transfers as a benchmark of success.

Bayern operate In a one race horse league. The Spanish Big guys in a two horse one. The EPL is unique and it's so competitive. We need the best in class not jobs for the boys

 

[amolbhatia50k]

Needs to get some serious business done in the next three weeks. Not good to have a worse window than our rivals who finished ahead of us last season.

 

[Idxomer]

I hate to say I told you so because deep down I hoped that I was wrong on this. I wonder what the adnans think at this point

Yep, the idea that someone who has been hired and promoted by Woodward would be any different was always fanciful.

 

[redshaw]

It's too quick yet but we have to see next summer.

I don't believe in long drawn out rebuilds but there's a lot to unravel for the past 9 years. We've got the right manager in who hasn't had one league game yet but we need clear concise decisions and planning to avoid past errors.

 

[Champ]

Bayern operate In a one race horse league. The Spanish Big guys in a two horse one. The EPL is unique and it's so competitive. We need the best in class not jobs for the boys

Bayern and the Spanish clubs also need a good structure throughout the club, something we haven't had for years until now.

 

[pocco]

We need a big transfer window after last season disaster. Instead, for the first game of the season, most likely McFred will start in midfield and Rashford, Martial and Elanga to play in attack.

Eesh. Is this what rock bottom (for us as a club) feels like?

That's bottom half of the table stuff.

 

[Escobar]

I have to chuckle how long ago it seems people were praising him, it was this summer! Funny how quickly things can change.

Still too early to judge for me.

Well to be fair, he spoke big about what is going to change and so on, and now we see (at least so far) he's just another guy who has no idea about football

 

[Matt851]

Apart from the De Gea comment I agree wholeheartedly with this.

Sir Alex always stayed his desire to be like Bayern Munich, as in promote from within in order to keep the culture consistent at the club.
That's what United are doing, and with the structural changes throughout the club recently I think it's clear that Murtough along with Arnold, has been working hard.
The benefits of these changes won't be felt straight away but will allow the club the reap the rewards over the distance.

It's just a shame that some fans only look at shiny new transfers as a benchmark of success.

Is working hard enough to qualify you for the United dof job these days? If so, how pathetic are our standards. These guys are paid millions a year to be the top people in their field, they aren't interns. The fact is neither is has an impressive cv and if they left the club no other pl team would be after them

Referencing sir Alex is also a bit desperate. He was a great manager but we are in a different era now and clubs are run differently.

Talk of structural changes and building to something reminds me of when ole took over. The fact is little has changed bar a couple of people leaving

We are the worst run club in the league and will probably remain thay way. Maybe only Everton are on a par

 

[Zen86]

People should keep their tears to the FdJ thread

 

[Roboc7]

Apart from the De Gea comment I agree wholeheartedly with this.

Sir Alex always stayed his desire to be like Bayern Munich, as in promote from within in order to keep the culture consistent at the club.
That's what United are doing, and with the structural changes throughout the club recently I think it's clear that Murtough along with Arnold, has been working hard.
The benefits of these changes won't be felt straight away but will allow the club the reap the rewards over the distance.

It's just a shame that some fans only look at shiny new transfers as a benchmark of success.

That culture is long gone though so it’s irrelevant to the club going forward.

If we were bringing former players in to work alongside experienced, competent and successful people or we were promoting from within after years of success I wouldn’t have seen any issues with Murtough and Fletcher. But the club is and has been crying out for people with proven competence and experience, not people learning on the job who promise to get it right eventually.

It’s not really a surprise that very little has changed and sure we will start seeing lots of excuses and empty promises.

 

[Thisistheone]

Not true, imo. Especially on the buying front.

United in the last 10 years have paid the asking price (or occasionally more than the asking price) on all our signings. Woodward was the worst negotiator known to man.

This summer, we may not have bought a lot. But we haven't been mugged at any exorbitant prices either. That's a huge difference. Under the old regime, we would have overpaid for Antony and offered up FdJ's deferred wages by now. That's no way to run a football club.

It may take another window or two for selling clubs to realise that we won't throw money at them on every deal. But it has to start somewhere and they'll start to treat us like a cost-conscious buyer eventually. Short term pain for long term gain.

Hope you’re right mate and this is some longer term strategy. Although I feel we overpaid a bit for Martinez and could have acted quicker for Antony.

 

[wolvored]

With all due respect, this is a bunch of hogwash.

Plenty of teams hire ex-players into the board room. Some of those teams are cited as the ones we should emulate. Does Bayern ring any bells?

As for the Dof who is even the best DoF our there? When Liverpool hired Edwards, was he the best Dof around as well? Spare me the drama.


As for Rangnick, what the feck did he do to merit such accolades? Did he win anything during his tenure or did he simply create a brand for himself based in his work at Red Bull by being financially dopped and still being a nobody. Do yourself a favor ask. @Hansi Fick what he thinks of him. You know someone who actually watched him for decades, and warned us that he will turn out a complete train wreck of an appointment. But you for some reason know that he would have been a sucess here simply because he was an outsider.

The only reason we are in this mess is because The Rock of fecking Gibraltar. Period.


Had that thing not occurred, the Glazers would have never come into the ownership of the club, and Woody would have never had infinite goodwill to do as he pleases and leave us in this mess that suddenly Mortough is responsible for.

For fecks sake SAF needed 4 years to turn it around, and yet Mortough is supposed to do it in under 6 months or he is useless.

Shocking post from someone who thinks De Gea still has got it. Tired of you complaining drama queens.

Well said.

 

[Telsim]

He is clueless, the poor sod, isn't he? A genuine non-improvement over Woodward. The level of incompetence permeating this club and the degree of mismanagement defy belief. It’s worthy of a research paper, honestly. To no one's surprise, of course. After all both Murtough and Arnold honed their craft alongside and under the biggest clown, but it doesn't make it any less impressive. Can't buy, can't sell, no plan. Same, old, same old. Over and over again. Jobs for the Lads, indeed.

 

[The White Pele]

I think in a lot of high-performing organisations Jon Murtough would be sacked for this kind of failure.

He’s been in role long enough to have identified some transfer targets to strengthen the squad this summer and should have had some of these deals lined up in advance. Instead it appears he has completely deferred responsibility for selecting targets to Ten Hag.

Whilst I can understand going after the likes of De Jong if he is ETH’s top target, there are glaring holes across the squad that have not been addressed: right-back, central midfield, right wing, striker, back-up goalkeeper

It is frankly a shambles. These positions should have been bolstered by now. There is good value to be had in the market if you move early and intelligently. Now we find ourselves in a position where we will be quoted ridiculous fees for targets due to it being so late in the window.

Right-back: we were never going to spend £40m-£50m this summer on a world class right-back. But we could have found someone more suited to Ten Hag’s style, whilst selling AWB and probably breaking even

Central midfield: we could have picked up someone like Boubacar Kamara on a free to at least give us a player of that profile in the squad without eating into the transfer budget.

Right wing: I think we could have secured Antony for a lot less than we are being quoted if we had moved decisively in June before Ajax sold the likes of Haller. Someone like Ziyech could have served as a stop-gap to give us more depth if Antony proved too expensive

Striker: We were always going to need at least one striker this summer if not two. Martial has had two disappointing seasons on the bounce and his United career looked to be over and Ronaldo is going to be 38 this season. Again, we may not have been able to spend big on a long-term first choice this summer but we should have by now picked up either a future prospect or an experienced option for a reasonable fee. ETH worked with Haller at Ajax who was hardly a world beater in the PL so surely there was a satisfactory option out there. I’m sure we would have known a bit about Sesko before now due to Rangnick’s links. Scamacca moved for £38m. Barcelona have some cast-offs now that they have Lewandowski. Anyone with the right attitude is better than having nobody.

Back-up goalkeeper: we should have picked someone up on a free transfer. I don’t know if Onana on a free was ever a possibility but would have been ideal to challenge DDG. Sam Johnstone and other options with PL experience were out there.

In addition to the above, Henderson, AWB, Bailly, Jones, Williams, Tuanzebe and Chong could all have been sold by now to raise more funds.

I would have expected a lot of the above activity to be done by now, given that we finished 6th last season, given that we had so many outgoings and so many holes to fill and given that we had effectively written off last season by Christmas.

The fact that we are 2 days away from our first match and most of these issues are not resolved goes to show that we are still a million miles away from being slick football operators. The buck has to stop with Murtough. In the new structure he has to assume responsibility for this. He may have been heavily involved with recruiting Ten Hag but he has dealt him a crap hand and possibly set him up to fail.

I think it would show a real change in culture at United if Richard Arnold were to sack Murtough for the failings of this summer and install someone with better credentials.

 

[Greck]

That culture is long gone though so it’s irrelevant to the club going forward.

If we were bringing former players in to work alongside experienced, competent and successful people or we were promoting from within after years of success I wouldn’t have seen any issues with Murtough and Fletcher. But the club is and has been crying out for people with proven competence and experience, not people learning on the job who promise to get it right eventually.

It’s not really a surprise that very little has changed and sure we will start seeing lots of excuses and empty promises.

Yeah there are several problems there. First is we are bringing inexperience to work with people who are themselves inexperienced. It's not exactly a continuity of cultural excellence. it's just more of the blind leading the blind. Secondly SAF is actually proving to be a terrible executive, Moyes, Ole, Ronaldo were from direct consultations with SAF. We have already been involving him these past 7 years and it has been a disaster, it didn't just start this summer and it's not some bigbrained innovation only the current regime thought of.

The red flags of this summer started as far back as February when it was reported Judge's role would be left vacant with the majority to be undertaken by fletcher. Not a surprise they are now scrambling for external legal help completing transfers. Transfers like the De Jong situation has so many moving parts that even require knowledge of contract and employment law. Requires at least one of education or experience. You don't just remove the guy in charge and leave it vacant, no matter how incompetent they might have been. Having zero scouting infrastructure just took the cake. Everyone is now blaming ETH for only going after dutch players like there's even a credible scouting infrastructure to rely on.

 

[wolvored]

It's too quick yet but we have to see next summer.

I don't believe in long drawn out rebuilds but there's a lot to unravel for the past 9 years. We've got the right manager in who hasn't had one league game yet but we need clear concise decisions and planning to avoid past errors.

I have been saying that. Its next summer you should see the difference. The manager will be here a year. He will have a years experience working with Murtough and the team, in competitive games. He can see who to promote, who needs moving on that doesnt suit his style, who to bring in abc choice etc.
The fact TH and Murtough have mainly gone for the dutch connection is familiarity, as its a learning curve for both. It doesnt matter how much we moan, Murtough is going nowhere, so why not give him at least a full season in the job, with the manager he picked.

 

[Kostov]

Not true, imo. Especially on the buying front.

United in the last 10 years have paid the asking price (or occasionally more than the asking price) on all our signings. Woodward was the worst negotiator known to man.

This summer, we may not have bought a lot. But we haven't been mugged at any exorbitant prices either. That's a huge difference. Under the old regime, we would have overpaid for Antony and offered up FdJ's deferred wages by now. That's no way to run a football club.

It may take another window or two for selling clubs to realise that we won't throw money at them on every deal. But it has to start somewhere and they'll start to treat us like a cost-conscious buyer eventually. Short term pain for long term gain.

We are potentially paying 67.5m euros of Lisandro Martinez, the Otamendi back up in the argentinian national team. Yeah a master piece of negotiation that was.

 

[Hansi Fick]

I hate to say I told you so because deep down I hoped that I was wrong on this. I wonder what the adnans think at this point. Can they admit that they were ridiculously wrong?

Why would they need to admit anything when everything you guys are moaning about is invented, speculative, or fictionalized?

The amount of needless, unjustified, and unwarranted moaning is just amazing.

 

[Champ]

Is working hard enough to qualify you for the United dof job these days? If so, how pathetic are our standards. These guys are paid millions a year to be the top people in their field, they aren't interns. The fact is neither is has an impressive cv and if they left the club no other pl team would be after them

Referencing sir Alex is also a bit desperate. He was a great manager but we are in a different era now and clubs are run differently.

Talk of structural changes and building to something reminds me of when ole took over. The fact is little has changed bar a couple of people leaving

We are the worst run club in the league and will probably remain thay way. Maybe only Everton are on a par

Who is Chelseas footballing director and did they have any footballing qualifications when they took the role?

Who is Arsenal's technical director? What qualifications did he have before taking the reigns at Corinthians at 34 years old? He also took the role at Arsenal with little experience post football.
What about Liverpool? How much experience has their Sporting Director got in that role?

That you can't see how much has changed at United already is probably testament to you peering through a red mist of anger.
-Changes of the scouting system and who deals with reports
-A new Data Science Director hired for the first Time
-improvements to Carrington
-Changes to the way the academy is run
-upheaval of the woman's team including a separate football director being touted for them

Thats to name a few, so slightly more than just a 'few people leaving '.

My reference to Sir Alex was merely to highlight that he wanted United to be like Bayern, in that continuity in personnel is key to keeping a culture alive at a club, something we lost as soon as Moyes gutted the backroom staff.
No exactly desperate, more just Referencing a valid point as he is now playing more of a hands on role at the club again.