The John Murtough Era

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Rightnr said:
Ten Hag can be Guardiola from Amsterdam, it doesn't change the piss poor squad he's got to work with. Or did you and others forget last season?

It seems our fanbase is trying to give Arsenal a run for delusion and blind optimism
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It's absolutely bizarre isn't it.

Feels like Men in Black where they erase the persons memory!

He's working with pretty much exactly the same group of players that have buried both Jose and Ole and Ralf!

Our players are absolutely melts and cannot take criticism off the pitch and fold like wet paper on the pitch the minute there is pressure!
 
Keefy18 said:
It's absolutely bizarre isn't it.

He's working with pretty much exactly the same group of players that have buried both Jose and Ole and Ralf!

Our players are absolutely melts and cannot take criticism off the pitch and fold like wet paper on the pitch the minute there is pressure!
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Minus Greenwood Cavani Pogba Mata Matic
 
UnofficialDevil said:
Minus Greenwood Cavani Pogba Mata Matic
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And still has Shaw (first thing he done was mouth off about previous managers... again!), AWB & Dalot (both poor and RB not addressed), Harry remains as captain, McFred (needs no explanation), Rashford (woeful attitude last year) and of course Petulant Ronaldo.

Along with a bunch of kids who haven't been tested at this level at all.

The season is gonna be another shambles, probably as bad if not worse than last year.
 
It was Clear after last season that significant investment was required. And here we are with less players, a couple of nice additions but nowhere near what it required.
 
UnitedSofa said:
The knives are already out for him!
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Doesn't matter the patience has deservedly run out for the backroom staff and Murtough has been apart of it throughout, ultimately if they aren't doing their job why are they are in the job at all.
 
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Newtonius said:
Doesn't matter the patience has deservedly run out for the backroom staff and Murtough has been apart of it throughout, ultimately if they aren't doing their job why are they are in the job at all.
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Not strictly true……

Also Murtough has done well this window, he’s followed what the club wants to a fecking T. Got deals done swiftly when they need to be too, Martinez took 2 weeks to agree with both the club and the player. The reason it took longer to he confirmed by the club was Visa issues, can thank Brexit for that. But we won’t let that ruin a narrative. Logic doesn’t bode well on the CAF.
 
Matt851 said:
Great examples, how many trophies have arsenal won in recent memory or how many times have they even qualified for the champions league. Is that really what you aspire to?

Chelsea had to change ownership ust before summer due to the war in ukraine so its hardly a reasonable comparison. They will likely appoint a dof next season

You reference changes to the scouting system as being an improvement but that doesn't tally with what we are seeing, when most targets are people our manager has previously worked with.

The changes are superficial and as yet there are zero signs of improvement
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This is what boggles the mind. How can fans praise Murtough for structural changes when the fruit of those transitions aren't even evident yet. Murtough is in a position where he can be perfectly judged at the end of this window because that is his responsibility. The blind faith I see in some of the opinions on here is laughable.

The hierarchy has had enough time to prepare, firing the scouts before a major window is questionable. Murtough already has doubts over his capabilities with the whole fiasco surrounding Ragnick who's sole purpose was to come in and become a consultant but that fell through due to inconsistencies with planning because ETH seemingly wanted nothing to do with Ralf.

I said almost two months ago that Murtough is not someone who inspires confidence and that reality hasn't changed for me personally. He has to prove his worth here no different to how the manager or the players do in their profession. This optimism that some fans have I could understand if John had some credentials with a previously successful role in the position he's in but he has nothing to fall back on.
 
UnitedSofa said:
Not strictly true……

Also Murtough has done well this window, he’s followed what the club wants to a fecking T. Got deals done swiftly when they need to be too, Martinez took 2 weeks to agree with both the club and the player. The reason it took longer to he confirmed by the club was Visa issues, can thank Brexit for that.
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Did well on Malacia too that's not necessarily the problem there is a distinct lack of football knowledge there otherwise he wouldn't be completely bending to the will of ETH, of which there is a clear shortage of targets coming from him right now, because of course there is that's just not how a modern club operates (ETH certainly didn't work that way at Ajax).

Lets not forget he is supposed to be director of football not chief negotiator and he has been in the role for over a year. Where is the structure, what has he done? Kept Ole way too long and shunned Ralf?

This is a serious rebuilding job where both quantity and quality was needed and Ralf is exactly the kind of person who should have been in that role, the Ralf at Leipzig especially, instead it looks like we ended up with Delboy.
 
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PedroMendez said:
you don't need narratives, if you just look at the squad.
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One can observe that the squad needs clear and in some parts urgent improvement without peddling narratives like the new DoF is out of his depth, the leadership changes have been for nought, the manager is not backed, the manager is stubborn and naive, the club is not ambitious, the summer has been a disaster, the De Jong pursuit is an embarrassment or what have you.
 
Hansi Fick said:
One can observe that the squad needs clear and in some parts urgent improvement without peddling narratives like the new DoF is out of his depth, the leadership changes have been for nought, the manager is not backed, the manager is stubborn and naive, the club is not ambitious, the summer has been a disaster, the De Jong pursuit is an embarrassment or what have you.
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maybe just take a step back from social media and avoid getting caught up in daily drama. United have been underachieving since SAF left and overall the match going fans seem to be still fairly supportive. I can only think of a single top club, where the fans would be equally patient after such a long time of repeated failure. Incidentally that's Liverpool.
The squad has 7 CBs on its payroll (+ Mengi), but no proper right back. Currently there are two senior CMs in the team (McFred) with youth players as backup. The attack is at least one player short, while the causa-Ronaldo is not solved. On top of that there are still 3-4 players (AWB, DvB, Jones, Bailly), who have to reason to be there. I am not even sure the squad improved compared to last season, which is quite something.
Maybe they fix that in the next few weeks and it turns out all great. Getting it right is more important than rushing it, but at this point it takes a bit of a leap of faith. The squad needed major changes and so far it hasn't happened. I understand that FdJ might take to deadline day, but that doesn't explain why the rest is not done.
 
UnitedSofa said:
The knives are already out for him!
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As they should be.

We hired the best available manager, but lumbered him with a DOF with no experience negotiating transfers, who is actually just a performance analyst hand picked by Woodward.

If things go badly this season on or off the pitch, Murtough has to be the first name on any list to carry the can for it.
 
Iron Stove said:
I think a big part of the lack of transfers is that they don't want to be taken for a ride.
In that secretly recorded fan meeting Arnold mentioned how United has wasted a huge amount of money. I can see that being part of his and Murtough's pitch to the Glazers, how they want to be more careful with money which would sound great to any owner. So instead of overpaying but getting players in, we look stuck and the season is just about to start..
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If that was the case they shouldn’t have left everything so late, or allowed themselves to be part of longest saga in the window. They won’t be getting anyone for less now everyone knows how desperate they are, especially if first few results don’t go well.

As ever the reasons are most likely lack of competence, experience, planning and ambition. The additional factor is probably lack of funds and cost cutting which may be the case going forward.

Murtough doesn’t have recruitment expertise it’s criminal that he and Arnold allowed us to go into such a decisive window so rudderless. Unless Murtough makes sweeping changes and gets almost instant success I can’t see him being around long as Arnold has clearly made sure everyone knows it’s not his fault.
 
PedroMendez said:
maybe just take a step back from social media and avoid getting caught up in daily drama. United have been underachieving since SAF left and overall the match going fans seem to be still fairly supportive. I can only think of a single top club, where the fans would be equally patient after such a long time of repeated failure. Incidentally that's Liverpool.
The squad has 7 CBs on its payroll (+ Mengi), but no proper right back. Currently there are two senior CMs in the team (McFred) with youth players as backup. The attack is at least one player short, while the causa-Ronaldo is not solved. On top of that there are still 3-4 players (AWB, DvB, Jones, Bailly), who have to reason to be there. I am not even sure the squad improved compared to last season, which is quite something.
Maybe they fix that in the next few weeks and it turns out all great. Getting it right is more important than rushing it, but at this point it takes a bit of a leap of faith. The squad needed major changes and so far it hasn't happened. I understand that FdJ might take to deadline day, but that doesn't explain why the rest is not done.
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We are on social media and as such my criticism was aimed at what goes on on social media. So that's obviously my point.
 
Everyone is tearing into United as of late. It's really picked up this week and especially today. I've heard pundits and talk shows ripping Martinez because he's too short for the PL. Ronaldo is causing issues because he wants out. We're starting another season with McFred. We drag on transfers and end up paying over the odds in the end. It's never ending. United are still the club everyone loves to hate. I think we'll sign at least one more player before the window closes. It could end up being a panic buy, but looking at our squad, I'd rather a panic buy than no buy. It looks like our issues over the last decade are not all down to Woodward and company.
 
He wont recover from this summer with the fans. Made to look incompetent in a time where the club was promoting change with a new boardroom setup and manager/coaches.
 
peridigm said:
Everyone is tearing into United as of late. It's really picked up this week and especially today. I've heard pundits and talk shows ripping Martinez because he's too short for the PL. Ronaldo is causing issues because he wants out. We're starting another season with McFred. We drag on transfers and end up paying over the odds in the end. It's never ending. United are still the club everyone loves to hate. I think we'll sign at least one more player before the window closes. It could end up being a panic buy, but looking at our squad, I'd rather a panic buy than no buy. It looks like our issues over the last decade are not all down to Woodward and company.
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The issues are still all rooted in Woodward. Woodward hired Ole, Woodward gave Ole a contract extension to reward his repeated failures, Woodward promoted Murtough and Fletcher, Woodward and Murtough selected Ralf as interim after dithering over when to sack Ole. All of that resulted in us falling far out of the top four in terms of squad quality. Now we're relying on a DOF who Woodward promoted to recruit our way out of the mess.
 
Castia said:
Do I need to?

We're about to start the season with McFred and Elanga in the first 11.
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First game of the season: Martial is the first choice striker, with Elanga his back up, and McFred starting in midfield...

If someone posted that prediction back in May they'd have been banned for wumming.

Our squad is still desperately shit.
 
Castia said:
He wont recover from this summer with the fans. Made to look incompetent in a time where the club was promoting change with a new boardroom setup and manager/coaches.
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Next time don't smile if you aren't sure.
 
UnitedSofa weren't you the creator of the infamous "Kneejerk" thread? Imagine backing Ole to the hilt until the City game in November and then having the audacity to lecture fans on the perception they have on the abilities of our backroom staff.

At least that perception is based on observable reality, we have a director of football that has done nothing in a year and a half in the role, a director of football that has no targets or football knowledge to impart on the manager they hired. It really says it all that you praise him for his negotiation when that isn't even his job.
 
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Newtonius said:
UnitedSofa weren't you the creator of the infamous "Kneejerk" thread? Imagine backing Ole to the hilt until the City game in November and then having the audacity to lecture fans on the perception they have on the abilities of our backroom staff.

At least that perception is based on observable reality, we have a director of football that has done nothing in a year and a half in the role, a director of football that has no targets or football knowledge to impart on the manager they hired. It really says it all that you praise him for his negotiation when that isn't even his job.
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Go back and read numerous highly detailed posts in this very thread about why Murtough is more than qualified to do the job.

What does my backing of Ole got to do with this anyway?
 
Maybe for whatever reason the shambles that is this summer isn't completely his fault. Maybe himself and ten Hag want Ronaldo gone but Arnold and/or the Glazers aren't having it.

Maybe he wanted to move on from de Jong long ago but ten Hag insists on staying in the chase. We don't really know if we're being honest with ourselves.

But on the face of it it doesn't look good by any stretch and as a club we have yet again been seen to be incompetent on the world stage. It's hard to see the next 4 weeks changing that.

Don't really know what to say beyond that. I wish I had that beginning-of-the-season buzz but I absolutely don't.
 
Common denominator to this utter shambles are the owners. We are fecked, until that changes.
 
Newtonius said:
UnitedSofa weren't you the creator of the infamous "Kneejerk" thread? Imagine backing Ole to the hilt until the City game in November and then having the audacity to lecture fans on the perception they have on the abilities of our backroom staff.

At least that perception is based on observable reality, we have a director of football that has done nothing in a year and a half in the role, a director of football that has no targets or football knowledge to impart on the manager they hired. It really says it all that you praise him for his negotiation when that isn't even his job.
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:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

Spot on. It's partly why I can't take the United fanbase, in its entirety, seriously anymore. The fact that there were so many who backed Ole to the hilt shocked me.

The fanbase and its standards/expectations are just another reason as to why we're in such a mess.
 
GDaly95 said:
Maybe for whatever reason the shambles that is this summer isn't completely his fault. Maybe himself and ten Hag want Ronaldo gone but Arnold and/or the Glazers aren't having it.

Maybe he wanted to move on from de Jong long ago but ten Hag insists on staying in the chase. We don't really know if we're being honest with ourselves.

But on the face of it it doesn't look good by any stretch and as a club we have yet again been seen to be incompetent on the world stage. It's hard to see the next 4 weeks changing that.

Don't really know what to say beyond that. I wish I had that beginning-of-the-season buzz but I absolutely don't.
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Honestly he's Ten Hag's boss. Unless Murtough is next level incompetent ETH shouldn't be able to overrule him if he's ready to pull the plug on De Jong. Ten Hag didn't even have that kind of autocratic power at the smaller Ajax. He's not meant to become our chief scout, DOF and manager rolled in one.

This is so far the opposite what ITKs were hyping for months before the summer. Was already being championed as an all encompassing 'proper' DoF figure that would finally balance the extreme influence managers have on club recruitment. So far we've taken a massive step in the same direction. He's even more reliant on manager knowledge than Woodward. This FDJ or nothing stance is plausible but this is where a savvy DoF is meant to provide the ying to the manager's yang. Has been here longer and should know the talent deficit in midfield is no joke, shouldn't even need the manager's blessing to address.
 
Greck said:
Honestly he's Ten Hag's boss. Unless Murtough is next level incompetent ETH shouldn't be able to overrule him if he's ready to pull the plug on De Jong. Ten Hag didn't even have that kind of autocratic power at the smaller Ajax. He's not meant to become our chief scout, DOF and manager rolled in one.

This is so far the opposite what ITKs were hyping for months before the summer. Was already being championed as an all encompassing 'proper' DoF figure that would finally balance the extreme influence managers have on club recruitment. So far we've taken a massive step in the same direction. He's even more reliant on manager knowledge than Woodward. This FDJ or nothing stance is plausible but this is where a savvy DoF is meant to provide the ying to the manager's yang. Has been here longer and should know the talent deficit in midfield is no joke, shouldn't even need the manager's blessing to address.
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So spot on man wow, how the feck does a "director of football" hire a manager to ostensibly work under him and then proceed to hand over all direction without actually offering any targets of his own its unbelievably shambolic what this club is doing.

Really would love it if someone tried to explain the reasoning. It doesn't even matter whether you trust Ten Haag or not that goes without saying, it still doesn't change that he isn't a scout his transfer targets are clearly very limited and there is just no structure in place to help him out like he had at Ajax.

Its even worse when you factor in RR as well, it seemed like there was a real plan where he would have had 8 months to assess the squad and then work alongside Murtough, can you imagine having the Ralf and his connections who worked at Leipzig during this "rebuild"? Who cares if he was a shit coach or a bit too blunt its not like we all didn't know the reality of the club anyway.
 
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Fans are impatient. We’ve gotten rid of our two most senior scouts, our chief negotiator and made a number of other changes to the back room staff. For this reason we’ve decided to give ten hag whatever he wants without interference from a recruitment team that currently doesnt exist and needs to be rebuilt.

Given how bad we were last season, changing the culture in the squad by bringing in the right players is far more important than bringing in a bunch of players the manager doesnt know.

When you look at the players we were linked with under ralf they are a completely different profile to the players ten hag has targeted. They see the game and therefore the needs of the team completely differently and would not have been compatible with each other.

Yea things are moving incredibly slowly but if we end the window with the 4 players we’re currently said to be targeting then we’ll be fine.
 
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