For 10th time; it is not early. We will start first game of the season with one or maybe two new players. We have only 4 forwards ffs. We will play against Liverpool and maybe even Arsenal with McFred midfield. Murtough didn't help ETH much this summer
Far to early to make such a judgement but as time keeps progressing we move closer and closer to the end of the window, I'm expecting a wave of criticism which is undoubtedly deserved if things remain as they are.
The John Murtough Era
- Thread starter Trex
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Eriksen is not a CM. He failed as a CM in a 5 man midfield at Inter under Conte (3-5-2). He is an attacking midfielder most suited to playing in the hole.
Lisandro is 24 years old, has barely played 5-6 matches for Argentina and Otamendi/Pezzella/Romero are ahead of him in the pecking order. He has started only 2 of the last 10 competitive Argentina games (Copa America/WC Qualification). He is not a youngster, he has pretty much hit his level.
Eriksen played in midfield for Brentford and did very well. Maybe he just failed to adapt to serie a. And you can't say with certainty that a player has peaked at 24.
Eriksen didn't fail as a CM for Inter...
Woodward in disguise.
You wish. I rate Woodward much more now. And it is not overreaction. Woodward did transfers much better. He did bad job regarding contracts but no way that this clown could finish high profile transfers like Ed did. Lets not forget that Woodward signed;
Varane, Zlatan, Falcao, Pogba, Ronaldo.....
Murtough needed more than one month to sign free players ffs.
Very underwhelming so far. And our scouting is still poor
What plays in his favor? Players are even less keen on joining us than before, when at least we looked like competing?
Making old Ed look good this fecking idiot.
Absolutely useless.
Absolutely useless.
So lets look at the perfomance of those players, only Zlatan I would rate as an overall success. Pogba and Falcao disasters/ poor, Varane Madrid sold us a pup, Ronaldo just came for money and now wants out. Interesting we see 3 forwards well over 30 rather than young players who can be the future of the club
Who gets the blame for us not signing a midfielder and a forward at this point in the window. Both areas needed quality and numbers going into the window yet we signed another 10/8, another LB and another CB on top of the army of cbs we already have.
Defenders definitely don't peak at 24. This guy is talking out of his arse.
I was not a fan of Ed too but that argument was always bs. What Ed has with performances? Managers wanted those players and Ed delivered ffs. Blaming Ed for that is completely out of common sense
That is indeed the big question. He is plainly responsible for the Rangnick hiring, which is very hard to regard as anything other than a mistake in retrospect. In combination with the absence of any transfer activity in the January window, that essentially doomed the team to the slow and painful death last season which I think has deeply hurt us in terms of credibility, confidence and attractiveness as a destination. The signings so far haven't been bad, but they also haven't really addressed the most glaring needs and neither the Ronaldo situation or the de Jong situation looks good in terms of handling. He got rid of some people in the scouting and contracts departments, but the effect at least in the short term seems to have been to render us less rather than more effective. In terms of squad quality, we have arguably lost ground compared to all of the top 5 competitors. Everything now hinges on what ten Hag can conjure up with the pieces he's got, which will be limited by several of them arriving too late to be part of a pre-season that is unusually crucial because a new system is being put in place. Some new hirings have been made in addition to ten Hag and his closest circle, none of whom fall into the instant jubilation category.
There's a few things that might turn out this way or that, but I can't really see any clear and undisputable positives.
I was an ardent defender of the new regime as more than anything I wanted to believe we had turned a corner. It's hard to not be completely dejected with our window so far, though. It's not even the lack of signings in the midfield and forward positions (and right back), it's also the lack of outgoings. Brandon Williams, Telles, Eric Bailly, Phil Jones, Wan-Bissaka are all still on our books (very strong argument that Ronaldo should have been allowed to leave as well). I was hoping for a really decisive summer in which we cut the fat and recruited strongly. Instead it's been tepid.
In the past 6 months Liverpool have signed Luis Diaz and Darwin Nunez and City have signed Haaland and Alvarez. These are the two highest scoring teams in the league. Arsenal have signed Jesus, Spurs Richarlison, Chelsea Sterling. We've signed no forwards. I just don't understand what the hell the club is playing at. What do they think is going to happen? It's fecking rubbish once again.
In the past 6 months Liverpool have signed Luis Diaz and Darwin Nunez and City have signed Haaland and Alvarez. These are the two highest scoring teams in the league. Arsenal have signed Jesus, Spurs Richarlison, Chelsea Sterling. We've signed no forwards. I just don't understand what the hell the club is playing at. What do they think is going to happen? It's fecking rubbish once again.
Remember when people thought it was a good idea to pass up on a proper DOF because of this guy? Chelsea are about to get Michael Edwards, we’ll be asking ourselves why our transfer business is still shit whilst Chelsea are running smoothly in the next couple of years. I wonder why.
Will be painted as Ed mk2 unless he gets the De Jong transfer over the line now or at the very least gets a competent replacement very quickly. Not looking great.
I saw a video the other day, I don't know who the person was but the were ranting about how we switched Woodward and his people for a similar group of people. Who do we have above the manager who is football obsessed and has a track record in taking a team to success?
It was wrong. Just look at PSG whatva good DoF can do, imo they had an excellent window as they bought brilliant young players
Promotion FC. Instead going for proper and proven DoF, we promoted this guy and gave him Fletcher for assistant (who also knows shit about that job).
It is awful how we are run as a club
As a club we seem extremely trusting of individuals with little to no track record of building teams/running football teams to grow into the role. Woodward, Richard Arnold, John Murtough. I guess that's an issue to do with the Glazers. Incredible that they still aren't interested in the likes of Michael Edwards and Luis Campos.
You trusted people at this club. It was your fault. This is a business not a football club anymore.
Now now people, this isn't the time to judge him, we need to give him at least 5 years before we can do that, you're all fake fans and should start supporting City as you're clearly only here for the trophies (never mind having spent the last decade watching crap football).
On a serious note, I was looking forward to this season purely for Ten Hag, even though I was one of the "negative" ones who questioned Murtough and Arnold, and I was only questioning their lack of forward planning.
Now it won't be long before their transfer dealings will need to be put into question to, we've lost 7 first tram players within the last 6 months and added 3 players (a 4th left back, a back up AM and a tiny CB for stupid money) - it hardly shows a smoothly run operation.
Anyone can throw crazy money at clubs to sign their players (Martinez) but it takes planning to identify players who suit your vision and get them in early for reasonable money.
On a serious note, I was looking forward to this season purely for Ten Hag, even though I was one of the "negative" ones who questioned Murtough and Arnold, and I was only questioning their lack of forward planning.
Now it won't be long before their transfer dealings will need to be put into question to, we've lost 7 first tram players within the last 6 months and added 3 players (a 4th left back, a back up AM and a tiny CB for stupid money) - it hardly shows a smoothly run operation.
Anyone can throw crazy money at clubs to sign their players (Martinez) but it takes planning to identify players who suit your vision and get them in early for reasonable money.
Season starts in 5 days and in one of our biggest summers yet we have been outspent by Leeds and Forrest.
No options in attack, one of the worst midfields in the Prem has somehow got even worse.
£180m. That's the figure we've spent on CB's in the past 3 summers. £240m on CB's in the past 5 years.
You could have prime Cannavaro and Nesta at the back but with the worst midfield in the league and a style of play that is non existent you aren't winning anything.
No options in attack, one of the worst midfields in the Prem has somehow got even worse.
£180m. That's the figure we've spent on CB's in the past 3 summers. £240m on CB's in the past 5 years.
You could have prime Cannavaro and Nesta at the back but with the worst midfield in the league and a style of play that is non existent you aren't winning anything.
It is neither. If it is strictly business then we would be hiring best people on most important jobs in the club and would be ruthless towards players.
Bottom table clubs are better run than we are
This is a badly run business.
Yep
Martinez 55
Varane 45
Maguire 80m
Lindelof 35m
Bailly 30m
We'll finish 6th this season and probably buy another for 50m+ next summer.
Add to that 100 mil more for full backs
It's like we're trying to build from the back, but keep getting it wrong. 240m on CBs over the last 5 years??
W. T. F.
Someone at the start of the transfer window sarcastically stated we will start the season with martial up front and mcfred in midfield. I along with others went, no chance. Sadly, his prediction is coming true. There has been no change to the movie "Carry on - Transfers ". Woodward leaving has made no difference at all.
Victim blaming! Classic!
Seasons starts in few days and we're weaker in midfield and attack than last season. I'm happy with ETH but I'm still yet to see any evidence that Murtough is the right man for this job.
It's an awfully run business at that because if they put the right people in charge, we'd have spent a lot better and sold a heck of a lot more. As a football club we're bad, as a business we're diabolical. The stock price should tell you a lot about how well run this business is.
Our whole defence costs what nearly 400m? If the Glazers were actual business men, they'd have had heads roll years ago.
ETH wanted tiny Timber and he ended up with tinier Martinez, he wanted FDJ and after wasting 2 months of negotiating we'll probably not signing him. Meanwhile it took us 2 weeks to wrestle Eriksen away from mighty Brentford. Everyone seems taking us to the cleaners. We overpaid on Martinez, we want to overpay for De Jong and we'll probably have to overpay on Antony and Sesko. This new and improved United can't even sell players. In fact Henderson, Telles, AWB and co are still on our books.
The season starts this weekend and, for me, there are a lot of alarm bells going off about the way Man Utd is being run.
We were sold the line (lie?) by the Manchester press pack, we can probably assume with the blessing of people at United, that Woodward was the problem. With Woodward gone things were going to change for the better, there was a new structure in place and that was going to be seen this summer.
The reality of the situation looks like business as usual. We have gazumped a smaller side for a left back (admittedly one who looks good). We've picked up a very good player on a freebie, although of the midfield slots we needed filling remain open and the ones he plays best in are the ones we need players the least. We've done business with Van der Sar, who is always fairly open to doing business with us, and paid through the nose for it.
Where's the change?
Today our manager has come out and condemned as unacceptable players leaving games early. This is days after many of the Manchester press pack telling us the club was relaxed about this. Eerily like when he who shall not be named said Lingard and Martial were unavailable to him, only for the Manchester press pack to tell us actually John Murtough had spoken to them and allowed them to take time. Once again the coach and the Football Director seemingly coming from different places.
Yesterday, Dean Henderson comes out and slams Man Utd in the media. Makes all sorts of braindead comments about the club, about not even wanting the manager to see him play. These feelings cannot have been hidden from people at the club. Especially if you believe the rumours about him leaking. He even made a joke about not being put up for interviews by United. Yet United have chosen to loan Henderson out with no option. So what's the long term strategy there? Can anyone seriously see Henderson coming back to United? People will say: 'Well if he plays well it'll boost his price.' Not if every club out there knows that he doesn't want to be at United and we don't really want him. Just like under the old regime, the new regime is putting off a decision concerning the long term composition of the squad. We're hearing the same things about Telles and others. Loans with no options, why when we have tons of defenders? The Director of Football, the guy meant to be making the strategy for the team, not doing so.
Then we have the De Jong situation. I don't actually blame United for going for him so determinedly. However, ultimately it should not be the manager who chooses the players but the Director of Football. Yes, the Director of Football has to choose the players to suit the profile of coach he has and the requirements of that coach. Still, it should not be the case that the Director of Football behaves like X player is the only guy in the world who can carry out Y function in Z system. There comes a point sometimes where, even if a coach is hot on a player, the Director of Football has to say: 'This isn't doable. For the health of the club we gotta move on.' City are seemingly backing away from Cucurella cos they feel they can't get it done. Just like they backed away from Kane last summer. In both cases Pep wanted the players but in both cases the club made a decision, which is why you have a Director of Football. What does ours do, act as a hype man for Ten Hag? Does anyone believe this was how the Overmars-Ten Hag dynamic worked at Ajax..?
This is all ignoring how we only brought in someone to help on player transfers months after Matt Judge handed in his notice. As if nobody at the club sat down at the point and considered how Judge leaving might leave gaps that someone would need to fill.
I'm not even going to get into the Ronaldo situation. Cos if the Director of Football lacked the foresight to imagine Ronaldo might want to play Champions League this season, when United fans were talking about that from like March, then I dunno what to say.
All in all, I see a lot of reasons to be pessimistic about Murtough, Arnold and the way United is going at the moment. It feels like, if we are successful in any way this season, it will be because we tripped and stumbled into it. Not because there was a real plan. Despite all the stuff that gets pumped out by Man Utd PR and fed to us by ESPN, the Athletic et al.
We were sold the line (lie?) by the Manchester press pack, we can probably assume with the blessing of people at United, that Woodward was the problem. With Woodward gone things were going to change for the better, there was a new structure in place and that was going to be seen this summer.
The reality of the situation looks like business as usual. We have gazumped a smaller side for a left back (admittedly one who looks good). We've picked up a very good player on a freebie, although of the midfield slots we needed filling remain open and the ones he plays best in are the ones we need players the least. We've done business with Van der Sar, who is always fairly open to doing business with us, and paid through the nose for it.
Where's the change?
Today our manager has come out and condemned as unacceptable players leaving games early. This is days after many of the Manchester press pack telling us the club was relaxed about this. Eerily like when he who shall not be named said Lingard and Martial were unavailable to him, only for the Manchester press pack to tell us actually John Murtough had spoken to them and allowed them to take time. Once again the coach and the Football Director seemingly coming from different places.
Yesterday, Dean Henderson comes out and slams Man Utd in the media. Makes all sorts of braindead comments about the club, about not even wanting the manager to see him play. These feelings cannot have been hidden from people at the club. Especially if you believe the rumours about him leaking. He even made a joke about not being put up for interviews by United. Yet United have chosen to loan Henderson out with no option. So what's the long term strategy there? Can anyone seriously see Henderson coming back to United? People will say: 'Well if he plays well it'll boost his price.' Not if every club out there knows that he doesn't want to be at United and we don't really want him. Just like under the old regime, the new regime is putting off a decision concerning the long term composition of the squad. We're hearing the same things about Telles and others. Loans with no options, why when we have tons of defenders? The Director of Football, the guy meant to be making the strategy for the team, not doing so.
Then we have the De Jong situation. I don't actually blame United for going for him so determinedly. However, ultimately it should not be the manager who chooses the players but the Director of Football. Yes, the Director of Football has to choose the players to suit the profile of coach he has and the requirements of that coach. Still, it should not be the case that the Director of Football behaves like X player is the only guy in the world who can carry out Y function in Z system. There comes a point sometimes where, even if a coach is hot on a player, the Director of Football has to say: 'This isn't doable. For the health of the club we gotta move on.' City are seemingly backing away from Cucurella cos they feel they can't get it done. Just like they backed away from Kane last summer. In both cases Pep wanted the players but in both cases the club made a decision, which is why you have a Director of Football. What does ours do, act as a hype man for Ten Hag? Does anyone believe this was how the Overmars-Ten Hag dynamic worked at Ajax..?
This is all ignoring how we only brought in someone to help on player transfers months after Matt Judge handed in his notice. As if nobody at the club sat down at the point and considered how Judge leaving might leave gaps that someone would need to fill.
I'm not even going to get into the Ronaldo situation. Cos if the Director of Football lacked the foresight to imagine Ronaldo might want to play Champions League this season, when United fans were talking about that from like March, then I dunno what to say.
All in all, I see a lot of reasons to be pessimistic about Murtough, Arnold and the way United is going at the moment. It feels like, if we are successful in any way this season, it will be because we tripped and stumbled into it. Not because there was a real plan. Despite all the stuff that gets pumped out by Man Utd PR and fed to us by ESPN, the Athletic et al.
Personally seeing the interest in Sesko that Murtough is starting to do the role of a DOF. Up till this point this summer it has been very manager lead recruitment, and it seems to be believed that prior to Woodward leaving Murtough was DOF in name alone.
But It seems unlikely Sesko is a Ten Hag target, so this one is Murtough. So finally we are starting to see a Murtough asserting himself. Obviously the transfer may turn out to be nowt but rumours,We may not sign Sesko, we may over pay, he may flop …… and that will impact our perception of Murtough.
But at this stage I’m seeing it as a positive that the structure at the club is starting to work as intended.
But It seems unlikely Sesko is a Ten Hag target, so this one is Murtough. So finally we are starting to see a Murtough asserting himself. Obviously the transfer may turn out to be nowt but rumours,We may not sign Sesko, we may over pay, he may flop …… and that will impact our perception of Murtough.
But at this stage I’m seeing it as a positive that the structure at the club is starting to work as intended.
United deserve to be treated by Ronaldo, the way they treated Henderson last year.
Some day it will dawn on anyone here that the people in charge of our club will keep hiring the wrong people because they themselves have absolutely no idea on how to build or progress a football club. Maybe once we have gone through Ed mk III & IV people will realize that the fish stinks from the head.
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