The John Murtough Era

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Its ok we have Martial who scored a grand total of 3 goals in pre season… PL defenders shaking in their boots

Yeah he looked mint. Right up until someone from Atletico ran into the back of him and he realised he didn’t actually fancy playing in a league where he might face sudden acts of violence. From that point onwards it was back to Martial we all remember well from the last few seasons.
 
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I'm assuming this "era" began when he was appointed football director. Not sure 16 months qualifies as an era but hey life moves fast these days.
Maybe we should have given Ole a statue as longest serving manager since 2013.
Could rename the thread " The Murtough Start"
 
Six senior first team squad members left, three players signed. Only one new signing plays the same position as any of the six who left. Seems like a poor window to me.

What other club with ambitions like ours would allow two strikers to leave in quick succession (Greenwood, Cavani) without replacing either of them? Is it going to take Ronaldo to leave as well before we finally get our thumb out our arse?
Our squad was already bloated, I don't consider Lingard or Cavani as first teamers off the back of last year. Or even Pogba for that matter. What value did they add anyway?
I'm not denying we needed to replace certain areas on the pitch but the inevitable arrival of FdJ will be a big coup, Eriksen is a much bigger upgrade on Lingard and of course Martinez is pivotal to the manager's system.

I don't think we have our thumb in our arse so to speak, it's easy to complain about not signing forwards but the sad truth is we have a budget and its limited, and competent forwards fitting his system for a reasonable price are scarce to find.

I dont think we have strengthened the midfield from last season.

We have strengthened the defence but lets be honest we overpaid for Martinez even with all the talk about him apparently driving a hard bargain. I wont even talk about the final agreed fee for De Jong (which is what Barca originally wanted that we said we would not pay)

All round I’m not impressed but of course difficult summer and so I’m not calling for his head.

Still though all the talk and briefing before the summer. Hes coming out looking like not alot has been fixed.

Another start of the season where the manager has been compromised, but whats new this is United.
We signed Eriksen who is better than any of our midfielders last year and that's before considering Frenkie's arrival (whenever the feck that is).

Also if you were expecting long term "fixes" this early on then it was probably too much. He's brought in the right manager and backed him with the staff, he's only just sacked off head of negotiations and scouts - the replacements would need time.
Its ok we have Martial who scored a grand total of 3 goals in pre season… PL defenders shaking in their boots
Might be misled in which case I apologize, but if thats a thinly veiled jibe at my view you probably need to revisit what I'm saying. I agree we need a forward, I think we'll get a forward. But I think 3 out of our potential 5 signings through the door a week before the season starts isn't exactly poor.
 
Our squad was already bloated, I don't consider Lingard or Cavani as first teamers off the back of last year. Or even Pogba for that matter. What value did they add anyway?
I'm not denying we needed to replace certain areas on the pitch but the inevitable arrival of FdJ will be a big coup, Eriksen is a much bigger upgrade on Lingard and of course Martinez is pivotal to the manager's system.

I don't think we have our thumb in our arse so to speak, it's easy to complain about not signing forwards but the sad truth is we have a budget and its limited, and competent forwards fitting his system for a reasonable price are scarce to find.


We signed Eriksen who is better than any of our midfielders last year and that's before considering Frenkie's arrival (whenever the feck that is).

Also if you were expecting long term "fixes" this early on then it was probably too much. He's brought in the right manager and backed him with the staff, he's only just sacked off head of negotiations and scouts - the replacements would need time.

Might be misled in which case I apologize, but if thats a thinly veiled jibe at my view you probably need to revisit what I'm saying. I agree we need a forward, I think we'll get a forward. But I think 3 out of our potential 5 signings through the door a week before the season starts isn't exactly poor.
Eriksen is not a better player than Pogba, and even with De Jong we still need a a proper Matic replacement or a more defensive minded midfielder.
 
I'm on your side here, I think we should be in advanced negotiations at least for one.

But I think the other areas we have strengthened are significant and for that reason I don't think Murtough has been poor. Without doubt I think we'll get 1-2 forwards, we just need to be more realistic in our expectations. We sacked off our head scouts and sacked off our head of negotiations, and it was necessary. Murtough cleaned house but there will be short term pain from it.
This is one of the issues I find quite odd. Murtough was appointed as football director 10 March 2021, over 16 months ago. Solskjaer was sacked 21 Nov 2021. Richard Arnold began his job 1 February 2022. The departure of two of the most senior people on the scouting/recruitment side was reported 20 April 2022. ETH was announced the following day, 21 April 2022. Rangnick's consultancy was formally announced as having been 'cancelled' 30 May 2022, but he had been telling anyone who would listen, both within the club and out, what needed to change for months. Tom Keane was brought on as a consultant 24 June 2022.

I dunno. Many of these things were done under the guise of modernising the recruitment side of things, independent of whoever the manager is at the time yet here we are again, yet another summer where we are allowing a manager to choose the targets/making him responsible for it, without the support of anything like a fit for purpose recruitment arm of the club. If that side of things was reasonably separate from the appointment of ETH/whoever the manager is and acts independently, then it does beg the question, why didn't they start earlier and why aren't they further along? Obviously it could be argued that the current scouting system was only dismantled towards the end of last season, but Gary Neville suggested, for whatever it's worth, that Jim Lawlor wasn't particularly integral anyway.


It seems a bit of a high wire act to me to "sack off" the recruitment side of things, ahead of one of the most important windows we'll have in years and basically allow the manager to pick players he'd managed or had extensive experience managing against in the same league. Particularly when he didn't even have that level of responsibility for that aspect of the job at Ajax. Is it any wonder that we've bought his former centre half, tried to sign his former striker and right winger, are trying to sign a midfielder he managed a few a years back and signed a midfielder he had training with Ajax last year and a left back who came from the league he'd been managing in. History is written by the victor and all that, but if quite a few of those players doesn't work out, it'll be seen as a rudderless shitshow, out of step with how other top clubs operate.
 
Eriksen is not a better player than Pogba, and even with De Jong we still need a a proper Matic replacement or a more defensive minded midfielder.
Pogba was not a good signing for us. Eriksen is shown immensely more than Pogba did for us, and is comfortably a more suitable signing.
 
Pogba was not a good signing for us. Eriksen is shown immensely more than Pogba did for us, and is comfortably a more suitable signing.
Im not saying Pogba was a good signing, but the rest of your post is far fetched.
 
Im not saying Pogba was a good signing, but the rest of your post is far fetched.
Which bit? That Eriksen is an upgrade on our midfield than the inconsistent bar Pogba set?
 
I'm on your side here, I think we should be in advanced negotiations at least for one.

But I think the other areas we have strengthened are significant and for that reason I don't think Murtough has been poor. Without doubt I think we'll get 1-2 forwards, we just need to be more realistic in our expectations. We sacked off our head scouts and sacked off our head of negotiations, and it was necessary. Murtough cleaned house but there will be short term pain from it.

Could have done all of that way earlier. And now we seem to rely on our manager to deliver the main input on who to get. Reeks of really really bad planning. The negtiations with FdJ are slow and not working well either and we seem to have no clue who to get for the much needed forward positions. This has been a huge dissapointment of what should have been a huge window. The three players we got are all nice but no priority at all. The glaring holes in our squad have not been adressed at all for the start of this season and we simply have no, I repeat, absolutely NO justification for that
 
Which bit? That Eriksen is an upgrade on our midfield than the inconsistent bar Pogba set?

Eriksen has shown immensily more than Pogba (he has not)
Also under Ten Hag I’m not sure Eriksen would be the better player. Hes getting a tune out of Martial
 
Eriksen has shown immensily more than Pogba (he has not)
Also under Ten Hag I’m not sure Eriksen would be the better player. Hes getting a tune out of Martial
Of course he has. The impact Eriksen had on Spurs is far greater than the relative impact Pogba had on United. For starters he was consistent in back to back seasons, which I know, is a low bar for comparing top midfielders but hey - it's something Pogba never did for us.
 
Of course he has. The impact Eriksen had on Spurs is far greater than the relative impact Pogba had on United. For starters he was consistent in back to back seasons, which I know, is a low bar for comparing top midfielders but hey - it's something Pogba never did for us.

But he did for Juve. Eriksens last season at Spurs was poor and he was a bench player at Inter.

Pogbas career wasn’t only at United and Eriksens not only at Spurs. Im simply saying Pogba is the better player. Eriksen is a good player mind you.

Anyway this is derailing the thread.

We have not objectively speaking improved the squad from the start of last season in my opinion.
That to me is a very bad thing

I haven't even spoken about selling deadwood yet.
 
This is one of the issues I find quite odd. Murtough was appointed as football director 10 March 2021, over 16 months ago. Solskjaer was sacked 21 Nov 2021. Richard Arnold began his job 1 February 2022. The departure of two of the most senior people on the scouting/recruitment side was reported 20 April 2022. ETH was announced the following day, 21 April 2022. Rangnick's consultancy was formally announced as having been 'cancelled' 30 May 2022, but he had been telling anyone who would listen, both within the club and out, what needed to change for months. Tom Keane was brought on as a consultant 24 June 2022.

I dunno. Many of these things were done under the guise of modernising the recruitment side of things, independent of whoever the manager is at the time yet here we are again, yet another summer where we are allowing a manager to choose the targets/making him responsible for it, without the support of anything like a fit for purpose recruitment arm of the club. If that side of things was reasonably separate from the appointment of ETH/whoever the manager is and acts independently, then it does beg the question, why didn't they start earlier and why aren't they further along? Obviously it could be argued that the current scouting system was only dismantled towards the end of last season, but Gary Neville suggested, for whatever it's worth, that Jim Lawlor wasn't particularly integral anyway.


It seems a bit of a high wire act to me to "sack off" the recruitment side of things, ahead of one of the most important windows we'll have in years and basically allow the manager to pick players he'd managed or had extensive experience managing against in the same league. Particularly when he didn't even have that level of responsibility for that aspect of the job at Ajax. Is it any wonder that we've bought his former centre half, tried to sign his former striker and right winger, are trying to sign a midfielder he managed a few a years back and signed a midfielder he had training with Ajax last year and a left back who came from the league he'd been managing in. History is written by the victor and all that, but if quite a few of those players doesn't work out, it'll be seen as a rudderless shitshow, out of step with how other top clubs operate.

The process is not appearing smooth for sure. I think @Adnan is the best person to provide context on the approach and at least keep me honest on my interpretation of the situation.
From my understanding we've taken a big shift on our approach to transfers toward heavy focus on data analytics which led Lawler and Bout redundant. The gains of this is too early to be seen this window which is why we've mixed our current knowledge of players to combine with Ten Hag's choices to make a shortlist. I think this is why Pau Torres was on the list with Timber and Martinez. And why Nkunku may have been an early consideration alongside Nunez and Antony.

Also regarding the timeline of Murtough's appointment - I don't think he was ever given a proper reign until Arnold came in as CEO in Feb. It was reported that he'd take a completely different approach in giving Murtough full remit toward the footballing decisions.
 
But he did for Juve. Eriksens last season at Spurs was poor and he was a bench player at Inter.

Pogbas career wasn’t only at United and Eriksens not only at Spurs. Im simply saying Pogba is the better player. Eriksen is a good player mind you.

Anyway this is derailing the thread.

We have not objectively speaking improved the squad from the start of last season in my opinion.
That to me is a very bad thing

I haven't even spoken about selling deadwood yet.
I don't care what Pogba did for Juve - he did it when it was a one horse league and Juve would walk the league by almost 20 points in a season. He did it in a league where the football is slower and by the way, he wasn't even amazingly consistent then either.

Pogba isn't a better player than Eriksen. He may be more talented, but to be a better player he needs to be consistent and he has almost never been consistent all career. Anyway, for a different thread - I'm just glad he's gone.
 
We've ended last season needing a couple of midfielders, right winger, striker, right back and centre back.

We are about to begin a new season needing a couple of midfielders, right winger, striker and right back.

Not really been a successful first window in charge for Murtough, has it? I hoped that with Director of Football we would change, but this infuriating trend of not addressing our needs in transfer market seems to continue.
 
ETH felt into same trap as previous managers. He thought at United we could sign any player that manager wanted, no need to look for alternative options. Hah joke on him, we don't do that here.

Moyes thought he could sign Bale, LvG wanted Muller. Mourinho's first season was good, but that because he had 4 months beforehand to work with.

It happened again. It' De Jong or bust, isn't it?
 
I understand it might not be so easy to find a striker who will be a focal point of the team. It's fine even if we need to wait until next window to identify what we need and get it done.

But starting another season with McFred as our ONLY option is criminal. I mean, we're one injury away from playing no10s or kids in midfield. That is unacceptable.
 
Also regarding the timeline of Murtough's appointment - I don't think he was ever given a proper reign until Arnold came in as CEO in Feb.
Important

Murtough has had since February to turn things around in that case.

So, before even ETH came in and well in advance of the summer transfer window and the season. Yet he has performed woefully - looking at the state of the squad in the context of what we needed (which was evident when his ‘proper reign’ started 6 MONTHS AGO- way before the transfer window). This is quite simply unacceptable. He has left ETH high and dry with his slap dash approach
 
This is one of the issues I find quite odd. Murtough was appointed as football director 10 March 2021, over 16 months ago. Solskjaer was sacked 21 Nov 2021. Richard Arnold began his job 1 February 2022. The departure of two of the most senior people on the scouting/recruitment side was reported 20 April 2022. ETH was announced the following day, 21 April 2022. Rangnick's consultancy was formally announced as having been 'cancelled' 30 May 2022, but he had been telling anyone who would listen, both within the club and out, what needed to change for months. Tom Keane was brought on as a consultant 24 June 2022.

I dunno. Many of these things were done under the guise of modernising the recruitment side of things, independent of whoever the manager is at the time yet here we are again, yet another summer where we are allowing a manager to choose the targets/making him responsible for it, without the support of anything like a fit for purpose recruitment arm of the club. If that side of things was reasonably separate from the appointment of ETH/whoever the manager is and acts independently, then it does beg the question, why didn't they start earlier and why aren't they further along? Obviously it could be argued that the current scouting system was only dismantled towards the end of last season, but Gary Neville suggested, for whatever it's worth, that Jim Lawlor wasn't particularly integral anyway.


It seems a bit of a high wire act to me to "sack off" the recruitment side of things, ahead of one of the most important windows we'll have in years and basically allow the manager to pick players he'd managed or had extensive experience managing against in the same league. Particularly when he didn't even have that level of responsibility for that aspect of the job at Ajax. Is it any wonder that we've bought his former centre half, tried to sign his former striker and right winger, are trying to sign a midfielder he managed a few a years back and signed a midfielder he had training with Ajax last year and a left back who came from the league he'd been managing in. History is written by the victor and all that, but if quite a few of those players doesn't work out, it'll be seen as a rudderless shitshow, out of step with how other top clubs operate.

thats a good summary.
 
Important

Murtough has had since February to turn things around in that case.

So, before even ETH came in and well in advance of the summer transfer window and the season. Yet he has performed woefully - looking at the state of the squad in the context of what we needed (which was evident when his ‘proper reign’ started 6 MONTHS AGO- way before the transfer window). This is quite simply unacceptable. He has left ETH high and dry with his slap dash approach
Transfers aren't his only remit.
He's had to juggle structural changes, managerial shortlists, interviewing the candidates and bringing them in. They had a shortlist of transfers established before the seasons end and that's in part why they were able to quickly move from Timber to Martinez. Antony was known to be on that list too but Ajax playing hardball can't really be blamed on him. FdJ has been a process we've worked on since the start of the summer. Malacia was a known target acquired.

He's sacked scouting heads, negotiation heads, and has had to operate without them for now.
 
Transfers aren't his only remit.
He's had to juggle structural changes, managerial shortlists, interviewing the candidates and bringing them in. They had a shortlist of transfers established before the seasons end and that's in part why they were able to quickly move from Timber to Martinez. Antony was known to be on that list too but Ajax playing hardball can't really be blamed on him. FdJ has been a process we've worked on since the start of the summer. Malacia was a known target acquired.

He's sacked scouting heads, negotiation heads, and has had to operate without them for now.

His choice. He could have done it before the window and replaced. Or after the window.
Its reported Judge has been involved this window anyway.
 
This is one of the issues I find quite odd. Murtough was appointed as football director 10 March 2021, over 16 months ago. Solskjaer was sacked 21 Nov 2021. Richard Arnold began his job 1 February 2022. The departure of two of the most senior people on the scouting/recruitment side was reported 20 April 2022. ETH was announced the following day, 21 April 2022. Rangnick's consultancy was formally announced as having been 'cancelled' 30 May 2022, but he had been telling anyone who would listen, both within the club and out, what needed to change for months. Tom Keane was brought on as a consultant 24 June 2022.

I dunno. Many of these things were done under the guise of modernising the recruitment side of things, independent of whoever the manager is at the time yet here we are again, yet another summer where we are allowing a manager to choose the targets/making him responsible for it, without the support of anything like a fit for purpose recruitment arm of the club. If that side of things was reasonably separate from the appointment of ETH/whoever the manager is and acts independently, then it does beg the question, why didn't they start earlier and why aren't they further along? Obviously it could be argued that the current scouting system was only dismantled towards the end of last season, but Gary Neville suggested, for whatever it's worth, that Jim Lawlor wasn't particularly integral anyway.


It seems a bit of a high wire act to me to "sack off" the recruitment side of things, ahead of one of the most important windows we'll have in years and basically allow the manager to pick players he'd managed or had extensive experience managing against in the same league. Particularly when he didn't even have that level of responsibility for that aspect of the job at Ajax. Is it any wonder that we've bought his former centre half, tried to sign his former striker and right winger, are trying to sign a midfielder he managed a few a years back and signed a midfielder he had training with Ajax last year and a left back who came from the league he'd been managing in. History is written by the victor and all that, but if quite a few of those players doesn't work out, it'll be seen as a rudderless shitshow, out of step with how other top clubs operate.


Exactly. As I said above, getting rid of our head of scouting and head of negotiations looks none too clever when the subsequent transfer window (a window that basically everyone agrees presents the biggest challenge/opportunity since Fergie retired) is characterised by unimaginative scouting and unimpressive negotiating.


Seeing as we seen to be almost exclusively trying to sign players who play for or against Ajax it’s particularly galling/depressing that the player we spent the most money on so far wasn’t even the Ajax player we actually wanted for the position he plays!
 
His choice. He could have done it before the window and replaced. Or after the window.
Its reported Judge has been involved this window anyway.
Judge is not involved in this window is he? His job was to negotiate contracts and he left before any of the negotiations with any signings (or new contract renewals) started.

And yes it was his choice - it was a choice overdue. I'd much rather Murtough fecked off this summer than keep him messing anything up further. Sacking him 2-3 months earlier than when he left would have changed nothing too.
 
Judge is not involved in this window. His job was to negotiate contracts and he left before any of the negotiations with any signings (or new contract renewals) started.

And yes it was his choice - it was a choice overdue. I'd much rather Murtough fecked off this summer than keep him messing anything up further. Sacking him 2-3 months earlier than when he left would have changed nothing too.
Judge is reported to have been involved in Eriksen and Martinez contracts. Reported, I don’t know if he was but thats been reported.
 
Our summer hasn't been great at all if we're honest. One could argue that we were poor all over the pitch last season, but our midfield and attack are in need of numbers.

You can't lose Greenwood, Cavani, Pogba, Mata, Matic, and Lingard, and then prioritize signing a CB and a LB to the point where we're starting the season with just Eriksen on a free. That's of course assuming that Ronaldo stays and that Martial and Rashford will do great + not get injured.

We're going to start the season with a weaker squad, and ETH desperately needs a good start to inject some positivity and confidence into the team.

Our links to Sesko now, and the fact that we went only with players that ETH recommended proves that Murtough had zero plans for the summer. I understand the delay with the FDJ deal, but there's no explanation for why we haven't signed anyone up front. I hope it all works out eventually, but I don't look at this summer and think to myself that was done well.
 
It's been overwhelming for Murtough. This was an extraordinary window we were facing and he was not up to it, unfortunately. We have not only not signed enough but we've only sold 1 player.

Didn't they bring someone in to give him a hand? What's his deal?
 
The process is not appearing smooth for sure. I think @Adnan is the best person to provide context on the approach and at least keep me honest on my interpretation of the situation.
From my understanding we've taken a big shift on our approach to transfers toward heavy focus on data analytics which led Lawler and Bout redundant. The gains of this is too early to be seen this window which is why we've mixed our current knowledge of players to combine with Ten Hag's choices to make a shortlist. I think this is why Pau Torres was on the list with Timber and Martinez. And why Nkunku may have been an early consideration alongside Nunez and Antony.

Also regarding the timeline of Murtough's appointment - I don't think he was ever given a proper reign until Arnold came in as CEO in Feb. It was reported that he'd take a completely different approach in giving Murtough full remit toward the footballing decisions.
Murtough has become the DoF this year and before then he was brought into a structure that was led by the manager and the scouting heads at first team level. And those scouting heads were brought to the club by Fergie and LVG. And when Murtough became the de facto DoF post Solskjaer and Woodward, he got rid of both the scouting heads. So i'm assuming he got rid of both Bout and Lawlor due to poor performance after their performance was reviewed. So I don't expect Murtough to rely on compiled scouting reports from the sacked heads of scouting for the current window, for the reason stated above. And you don't bring in a head of scouting near the tail end of the season because it doesn't work like that.

If you look at DoFs like Overmars or even Rangnick, what will be clear is that they both rely on a 'head of scouting' to provide them with profiles to improve the squad. At Ajax the head of scouting is Henk Veldmate who controls their scouting department at first team level and it's him who Overmars relied on for new recruits via the transfer window. Rangnick relied on Christian Mockel at Hoffenheim, who was the club's head of scouting and provided Rangnick with targets to pursue. And both Rangnick and Overmars were given the power to shape the structure of their clubs by bringing their choice of head coach and head of scouting to lead the recruitment department.

One of the things that's repeated on here by many of us is that Michael Edwards at Liverpool persuaded Klopp to drop the interest in Brandt and instead sign Salah. And Edwards couldn't persuade Klopp to drop interest in signing a player if he didn't have a convincing argument backed up by the head of recruitment. And the heads of recruitment at Liverpool are Dave Fallows and Barry Hunter who were poached from Man City in 2012. Edwards also had the advantage of tapping into the knowledge of the data science team at the club which is reportedly the most well resourced in Europe and has greatly benefited the club under Klopp. We don't even have a head of recruitment at the club due to reasons already explained and the data science head (Dominic Jordan) only started in his new role in March this year according to reports due to the pandemic. So like I've said before, it's important we allow Murtough to put in place the key cogs like a head of recruitment and the data science team which will help us bridge the gap between ourselves and the likes of Liverpool and City who have a very streamlined approach to recruitment which has been fine tuned under their current head coaches and has given them stability at their clubs.

I think we'll sign two or three more players and I don't have a issue with our current recruitment strategy. But I fully expect our approach to recruitment to become more diverse once a head of scouting and head of data science have a full season under their belt. And those two roles are not active as things stand.
 
Jonathan David, Joao Pedro, Olise, Gakpo, Sesko, Antony, Nkunku, SMS, Tielemans, Gusto, Walkers Peters, Raphinha, Richarlison, FDJ, Fabian Ruiz…pick any 3 combination get one free. And that’s just me - man on Internet who has no access to our massive scouting database.
You would've bought FDJ somehow? You should write to Murtough and Arnold to let them know your secret of persuading him and Barcelona to make the deal happen.

Tielemans, SMS and Walker-Peters, are a definite 'no-no' for me. Fabian Ruiz too.

As for Antony, how would that work? You will pay whatever Ajax wants?

Raphinha only wanted to move to Barcelona, how would you get him?

Gakpo? Olise? For Manchester United? Not for me.

Richarlison would not have resolved any problem for us since he is a left forward, a position where we are quite stocked.

So, that leaves us with David, Joao Pedro, Sesko, Antony, Nkunku and FDJ. We are already rumoured to be interested in at least 3 of these.
 
You would've bought FDJ somehow? You should write to Murtough and Arnold to let them know your secret of persuading him and Barcelona to make the deal happen.

Tielemans, SMS and Walker-Peters, are a definite 'no-no' for me. Fabian Ruiz too.

As for Antony, how would that work? You will pay whatever Ajax wants?

Raphinha only wanted to move to Barcelona, how would you get him?

Gakpo? Olise? For Manchester United? Not for me.

Richarlison would not have resolved any problem for us since he is a left forward, a position where we are quite stocked.

So, that leaves us with David, Joao Pedro, Sesko, Antony, Nkunku and FDJ. We are already rumoured to be interested in at least 3 of these.
The whole point which yet again has whistled over your head was there’s feck tons of alternatives out there - I’m just one person and have named some - the club with it’s apparent massive scouts and huge database can surely find even more. You also understand that you saying “not for me” has zero impact on MY list right? Oddly enough you aren’t the oracle. Thanks for your feedback though. I’ll pick out two which I found especially perplexing - SMS being a definite no-no with our current CM options is hilarious. He’d be absolutely brilliant in the advanced CM role Mctominay is currently playing and is at least twice the player DVB is there. And 20 year old Olise not being a “Manchester United player” - whatever the feck that means these days - I’d love to know what he lacks at 20 that stops him - a left footed right winger who has pace, skill and works very hard at 20 for Crystal Palace with a 35m buyout has the following stats:
93rd percentile for assists per 90
87th for expected assists
89th for progressive passes
95th for progressive carries
69th for dribbles
72nd for pressures
74th for tackles

He has zero links to Ajax and isn’t hugely overpriced though so maybe that’s why he isn’t a Manchester United player.
 
The process is not appearing smooth for sure. I think @Adnan is the best person to provide context on the approach and at least keep me honest on my interpretation of the situation.
From my understanding we've taken a big shift on our approach to transfers toward heavy focus on data analytics which led Lawler and Bout redundant. The gains of this is too early to be seen this window which is why we've mixed our current knowledge of players to combine with Ten Hag's choices to make a shortlist. I think this is why Pau Torres was on the list with Timber and Martinez. And why Nkunku may have been an early consideration alongside Nunez and Antony.

Also regarding the timeline of Murtough's appointment - I don't think he was ever given a proper reign until Arnold came in as CEO in Feb. It was reported that he'd take a completely different approach in giving Murtough full remit toward the footballing decisions.
Pretty difficult to say the club has shifted to placing more emphasis on utilising analytics as part of recruitment when we have spent all summer chasing players our manager previously worked with.

That night be thr intention but it's not happening in practice. There has also been sufficient time to put such a practice in place even if its something that requires refinement over the next year.

The idea he hasn't had enough time in post is a bit ridiculous. This was a huge window for us and he is in one of the biggest dof jobs in world football. No other big club would give him two years to look vaguely competent
 
Pretty difficult to say the club has shifted to placing more emphasis on utilising analytics as part of recruitment when we have spent all summer chasing players our manager previously worked with.
Its not, because the benefits of this shift would take longer to see. The window came too early.
That night be thr intention but it's not happening in practice. There has also been sufficient time to put such a practice in place even if its something that requires refinement over the next year.

The idea he hasn't had enough time in post is a bit ridiculous. This was a huge window for us and he is in one of the biggest dof jobs in world football. No other big club would give him two years to look vaguely competent
I advise you read Adnans post, hes only really had the proper reigns since Feb this year.
 
Early days and first summer transfer window, so still time to turn it around.

As things stands its been an underwhelming window thus far. Okay maybe the Ronaldo thing was unexpected but we're looking set to go into the season with McFred first choice with little to no debt and incredibly short in attacking options, even if Ronaldo stays.

It feels like we are heading into a season where our midfield is nowhere near good enough and one injury or bad spell of form for one of our forwards and we're fecked as the back ups aren't good enough.

Things can change, so I have some hope but even this FDJ saga seems like it's him or bust and considering our midfield options right now, it could backfire big time.

Still hopeful but not much confidence in this new 'regime'.
 
Its not, because the benefits of this shift would take longer to see. The window came too early.

I advise you read Adnans post, hes only really had the proper reigns since Feb this year.
I still think being in post from February (ignoring the fact he was probably doing the role in advance of feb) is sufficient time to work with the scouting department to develop a shortlist of targets that are suited to ETHs style of football. If that isn't possible because he sacked key members of the scouting department prior to summer then I am going to suggest that was a mistake and should have waited until after summer.

Ultimately I find it hard to believe we would be in such a poor position if we hired a dof with a better cv
 
Exactly. As I said above, getting rid of our head of scouting and head of negotiations looks none too clever when the subsequent transfer window (a window that basically everyone agrees presents the biggest challenge/opportunity since Fergie retired) is characterised by unimaginative scouting and unimpressive negotiating.


Seeing as we seen to be almost exclusively trying to sign players who play for or against Ajax it’s particularly galling/depressing that the player we spent the most money on so far wasn’t even the Ajax player we actually wanted for the position he plays!
Yep. In addition, we also have Baily and Jones sitting on the sidelines not going anywhere because their wages are too big and will simply be left either with disadvantageous loans or allowed to leave for nothing while subsidising the wages. Without even really discussing Tuanzebe whose market value has gone through the floor in recent seasons.

And we still have four senior left backs at the club. Telles and Williams are blatantly not good enough for this level. Likewise, I would assume that they will end up being given loans where we pay a large part of the wages because the rumour seem to be going to Brandon Williams is on aroumd £60k a week. Telles, I assume, must be on quite a bit more than that, given that he was brought in as a decent money signing.

I suspect a few will leave nearer the end of the window but quite a few of the players mentioned won’t be able or willing to get permanent moves because their wages are out of whack with their abilities or performances.

It’s a tough gig for Murtough but he’s been around long enough to know about the problems we’ve had shifting those players. Holding onto them years to long in the hope of getting a payday that we all know is never going to come….the very definition of self-defeating.
 
The whole point which yet again has whistled over your head was there’s feck tons of alternatives out there - I’m just one person and have named some - the club with it’s apparent massive scouts and huge database can surely find even more. You also understand that you saying “not for me” has zero impact on MY list right? Oddly enough you aren’t the oracle. Thanks for your feedback though. I’ll pick out two which I found especially perplexing - SMS being a definite no-no with our current CM options is hilarious. He’d be absolutely brilliant in the advanced CM role Mctominay is currently playing and is at least twice the player DVB is there. And 20 year old Olise not being a “Manchester United player” - whatever the feck that means these days - I’d love to know what he lacks at 20 that stops him - a left footed right winger who has pace, skill and works very hard at 20 for Crystal Palace with a 35m buyout has the following stats:
93rd percentile for assists per 90
87th for expected assists
89th for progressive passes
95th for progressive carries
69th for dribbles
72nd for pressures
74th for tackles

He has zero links to Ajax and isn’t hugely overpriced though so maybe that’s why he isn’t a Manchester United player.
I want the club to back the manager. Whoever we are linked to is irrelevant, unless it is genuine and the club is truly interested. How long the actual list of players on our radar is something you and I know nothing about.

How does any individual player on your list fit with the plans of the manager, I can't say. To me, they don't.

I can list another 100 players who play in the positions you have covered. So what? That doesn't mean they are:
a) the right player in terms of ability or mindset
b) available for sale
c) would prefer to move to United if other clubs are interested (e.g., Barcelona, Bayern, etc.)
d) are within the club budget or acceptable bracket within the squad context

You seem to think you are an all-knowing creature that sees beyond the mere reality of the mortals, but I'd say it's far more likely you're quite full of it.
 
Exactly. As I said above, getting rid of our head of scouting and head of negotiations looks none too clever when the subsequent transfer window (a window that basically everyone agrees presents the biggest challenge/opportunity since Fergie retired) is characterised by unimaginative scouting and unimpressive negotiating.


Seeing as we seen to be almost exclusively trying to sign players who play for or against Ajax it’s particularly galling/depressing that the player we spent the most money on so far wasn’t even the Ajax player we actually wanted for the position he plays!
Kinda have to agree with this. I never understood people saying that knowingly going into the summer with no scouting infrastructure (not even a provisional one) was a rational explanation for the issue of having no scouting. It's like, yeah, no shit, that's the problem being cited in the first place, it doesn't make any more sense that it was done on purpose.

Although and to be honest I don't think sources know as much as they like to claim. Even the rationalizations look eerily like they are just retroactively framing every misstep to fit some grand masterplan. Everything so far is the total opposite of the changes the same sources hyped for months to commence this summer.
 
4 days before first game. So in 100 days (since we hired ETH) this guy managed to sell one player, loan one and sign 3.
Biggest and most important summer in decade and guy did shit.
When you think that Woodward did his job and Arnold'ss job. And Murtough even has assistant.

We managed to downgrade bloody Woodward.
 
4 days before first game. So in 100 days (since we hired ETH) this guy managed to sell one player, loan one and sign 3.
Biggest and most important summer in decade and guy did shit.
When you think that Woodward did his job and Arnold'ss job. And Murtough even has assistant.

We managed to downgrade bloody Woodward.

:lol:

Far to early to make such a judgement but as time keeps progressing we move closer and closer to the end of the window, I'm expecting a wave of criticism which is undoubtedly deserved if things remain as they are.
 
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