The John Murtough Era

[Rajiztar]

So what your saying is the Murtough over a year into the job going into what is one of the most important summers we have were it’s possible we may spend a 100 million quid, is utterly reliant on Ten Hags knowledge base for targets? And if they don’t pan out the scouting network we have is so bad it can’t be trusted? Again Is that is really bleak.

As long as you are able to pay high wages players will come to you. But you have to search gems from mid table teams across Europe. They may not statistically top notch but playing with inferior players might keep it low.

You have to find one or two mid field gems and defenders then all will become rossy suddenly. Liverpool did exactly that. Salah Mane vvd all were signed from mid table teams. Became prominent and attract top class talents.

By doing this you won't put pressure on new manager but allowed him to develop style of play with core strong energetic players. Get top 4 then attack the market for top talents to make it title challenging team.

 

[Adnan]

So what your saying is the Murtough over a year into the job going into what is one of the most important summers we have were it’s possible we may spend a 100 million quid, is utterly reliant on Ten Hags knowledge base for targets? And if they don’t pan out the scouting network we have is so bad it can’t be trusted? Again Is that is really bleak.

No, I'm saying Murtough has not been able to bring his own heads of department on the scouting/recruitment side of the club, yet. And one of the first things he did, once he became the de-facto DoF was to remove Lawlor and Bout. He wasn't the DoF with Ole as manager and Woodward at the club overseeing club operations above the DoF/manager, Solskjaer. That's not how a DoF model works and I said that at the time

Now keep a eye on who he will appoint as the head of scouting, because he's already brought in the head coach and the data science head, who will be going into the new season with his own team of data scientists to back up the performance and scouting departments And once he has those people in place, then I will judge him and his team's work on the structural side of the club.

And until then, we should back ten Hag with his targets with the input of Henny de Regt who is the head of scouting in Europe for the club.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

No, I'm saying Murtough has not been able to bring his own heads of department on the scouting/recruitment side of the club, yet. And one of the first things he did, once he became the de-facto DoF was to remove Lawlor and Bout. He wasn't the DoF with Ole as manager and Woodward at the club overseeing club operations above the DoF/manager, Solskjaer. That's not how a DoF model works and I said that at the time

Now keep a eye on who he will appoint as the head of scouting, because he's already brought in the head coach and the data science head, who will be going into the new season with his own team of data scientists to back up the performance and scouting departments And once he has those people in place, then I will judge him and his team's work on the structural side of the club.

And until then, we should back ten Hag with his targets with the input of Henny de Regt who is the head of scouting in Europe for the club.

Murtough has been DOF for over a year, appointed officially on the 10th march 2021. This is Murtough's third transfer window as DOF. The fact that you are saying that he has got to the 3rd window where he is not in a position for the club to be able to identify targets is incredibly damming. As one of the main reason you have a director of football is to ensure the squad is being built on a club vision rather then the vision of the manager at the time. Your basically saying a year into the job he isnt able to do the job yet but fingers crossed he will be able to do it down the line.

 

[TheReligion]

Murtough has been DOF for over a year, appointed officially on the 10th march 2021. This is Murtough's third transfer window as DOF. The fact that you are saying that he has got to the 3rd window where he is not in a position for the club to be able to identify targets is incredibly damming. As one of the main reason you have a director of football is to ensure the squad is being built on a club vision rather then the vision of the manager at the time. Your basically saying a year into the job he isnt able to do the job yet but fingers crossed he will be able to do it down the line.

You’re not listening to what he said are you?

 

[VP89]

Murtough has been DOF for over a year, appointed officially on the 10th march 2021. This is Murtough's third transfer window as DOF. The fact that you are saying that he has got to the 3rd window where he is not in a position for the club to be able to identify targets is incredibly damming. As one of the main reason you have a director of football is to ensure the squad is being built on a club vision rather then the vision of the manager at the time. Your basically saying a year into the job he isnt able to do the job yet but fingers crossed he will be able to do it down the line.

You think Murtough was able to perform his duties under Woodward the same way he is under Arnold?

this is his first window mate. Lets put it that way

 

[Flexdegea]

Last 2 pages

"Worse than Woodward"

 

[Nytram Shakes]

You’re not listening to what he said are you?

Yes 100% I am, but he is just painting negative in a postive light.
What the poster is saying is we have had a director of football in place for over a year, (and who has been at the club for nearly a decade) mid way through this 3rd transfer window we’re the club is trying 2 rebound from an awful season, we’re we again are at least trying to spend heavily and yet the club is not in a position to have compile a list of targets that fit Murtoughs vision for the club and so we are heavily reliant on the incoming manger to identify targets. One of the exact situations appointing a DOF is meant to to avoid.
If the situation is as is being described by the poster then it is not a positive situation.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

You think Murtough was able to perform his duties under Woodward the same way he is under Arnold?

this is his first window mate. Lets put it that way

But then if you don’t trust Woodward to let Murtough do his job, how can you trust Woodward that Murtough is a good candidate for the job? If Woodward is as inept in football matters as we all think he is, how could anyone have any faith in Murtough?

 

[VP89]

But then if you don’t trust Woodward to let Murtough do his job, how can you trust Woodward that Murtough is a good candidate for the job? If Woodward is as inept in football matters as we all think he is, how could anyone have any faith in Murtough?

Murtough has established a lot in his career that puts him in good stead for a role like this.
I dont know if hel be great or bad but I do know we can't judge him yet. The decisions made from him thus far do look promising though.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Murtough has established a lot in his career that puts him in good stead for a role like this.
I dont know if hel be great or bad but I do know we can't judge him yet. The decisions made from him thus far do look promising though.

I disagree, he has been a club that has been running a bit like train wreck for a decade, he has been appointed by someone who clearly didn't know how to run the football side of the business so any appointment made by Woodward has to be seen as questionable.

His first transfer window officially in charge (last summer) left us incredibly unbalanced. His first appointment as temporary manager was a disaster and the individual who was meant to stay on as a consultant has left. We are now well into his 3rd window in charge, and we are near exclusively relying on targets clearly identified by our incoming manager (a situation hiring a DOF is meant to avoid), we are also struggling to get the targets in reducing the time which Ten Hag will get to work with them on the training ground, in a summer when we are trying drastically change the style of play and ethos of the club, before a season that is going to be crazy fixture wise because of the world cup and time on the training ground limited.

Sorry i don't see how this is promising.

 

[Castia]

I believe Fletcher is out on the training field again….the feck is happening at this club

 

[Devil_forever]

Great idea to turn down Paul Mitchell and Ragnick. Two guys who've actually run clubs well and built clubs from the ground up. No Ragnick being a bad manager doesn't make him a bad DoF. We need to stop promoting from within and find the best in field.

 

[Adnan]

Murtough has been DOF for over a year, appointed officially on the 10th march 2021. This is Murtough's third transfer window as DOF. The fact that you are saying that he has got to the 3rd window where he is not in a position for the club to be able to identify targets is incredibly damming. As one of the main reason you have a director of football is to ensure the squad is being built on a club vision rather then the vision of the manager at the time. Your basically saying a year into the job he isnt able to do the job yet but fingers crossed he will be able to do it down the line.

John Murtough has been the de facto DoF since Ed Woodward stepped down, and the tier 1 journalists have alluded to this. A DoF is someone who oversees everything on the football side of the club and has authority over all the footballing departments including the head coach. But John Murtough didn't have authority over Solskjaer who was still the manager and set the directive at first team level, whilst having his own personal scout to aid him. And the signings that were made during Ole's reign can't be attributed to Murtough, because he didn't bring any of Bout, Lawlor and Court to the club and neither did he have anything to do with Solskjaer being appointed as the manager. He inherited the problems at first team level and wasn't party to them.

John Murtough was the head of development outside the fold of the first team prior to being promoted to the first team. He was basically the DoF at youth level and had a scouting network working under him who were led by the head of youth recruitment, David Harrison. Harrison had between 15 to 20 youth scouts working under him and would report to John Murtough. And in the 7 to 8 years he was involved with youth development and building the strategic side of the club, he has been a success. Because he inherited a youth setup that was deteriorating and parents were taking their children to rival academies. He turned that around and has restructured the setup at youth level where we now have a higher calibre of recruit with a setup led by people like Nick Cox who he brought to the club and we're currently the FA Youth Cup champions.

It hasn't been a year, but rather about 6 months into his role as the 'de-facto DoF as I explained to you above. And from what I'm seeing so far, he's made the correct moves by bringing in EtH, Dominic Jordan and is in the process of hiring someone in a head of scouting role according to reports, which is a extremely important role on the recruitment side of any club. And it's a role that many on here have often confused with the DoF role.

You also talk about the DoF having 'vision' and that's exactly what he's shown by hiring a head coach who implements a modern progressive play style which we've failed to do since the great man retired in 2013. He's also shown the vision to hire our first data scientist on the football side of the club in Dominic Jordan, who will reportedly lead a team of data scientists to aid performance and recruitment. And every single player we're linked to thus far by reputable sources is a player that is in-sync with high intensity positional play, which is the requirement of the current head coach. And once he (Murtough) brings in the head of scouting and gets the ball rolling with the data analytics team, I'm sure we'll see more diversity in our approach to recruitment. But our recruitment structure in it's current guise, isn't as thorough and detailed as what we see at clubs like Liverpool. And it took Klopp a while to rectify the problem hence he mostly bought players who were either associated to the German or Austrian Bundesliga in his first foray in the transfer market in the summer of 2016. And he did that because those players understood his methods from the get go, and aided him on the training ground and hence it helped the existing players, too.

 

[devilish]

So what your saying is the Murtough over a year into the job going into what is one of the most important summers we have were it’s possible we may spend a 100 million quid, is utterly reliant on Ten Hags knowledge base for targets? And if they don’t pan out the scouting network we have is so bad it can’t be trusted? Again Is that is really bleak.

Adnan's blind faith in Murtough is weird. I suggest you stop and slowly walk away.

 

[wolvored]

Murtough has been DOF for over a year, appointed officially on the 10th march 2021. This is Murtough's third transfer window as DOF. The fact that you are saying that he has got to the 3rd window where he is not in a position for the club to be able to identify targets is incredibly damming. As one of the main reason you have a director of football is to ensure the squad is being built on a club vision rather then the vision of the manager at the time. Your basically saying a year into the job he isnt able to do the job yet but fingers crossed he will be able to do it down the line.

It wouldnt surprise me if he was dof in name only until the narcissistic Woodward went in Feb this year.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

John Murtough has been the de facto DoF since Ed Woodward stepped down, and the tier 1 journalists have alluded to this. A DoF is someone who oversees everything on the football side of the club and has authority over all the footballing departments including the head coach. But John Murtough didn't have authority over Solskjaer who was still the manager and set the directive at first team level, whilst having his own personal scout to aid him. And the signings that were made during Ole's reign can't be attributed to Murtough, because he didn't bring any of Bout, Lawlor and Court to the club and neither did he have anything to do with Solskjaer being appointed as the manager. He inherited the problems at first team level and wasn't party to them.

John Murtough was the head of development outside the fold of the first team prior to being promoted to the first team. He was basically the DoF at youth level and had a scouting network working under him who were led by the head of youth recruitment, David Harrison. Harrison had between 15 to 20 youth scouts working under him and would report to John Murtough. And in the 7 to 8 years he was involved with youth development and building the strategic side of the club, he has been a success. Because he inherited a youth setup that was deteriorating and parents were taking their children to rival academies. He turned that around and has restructured the setup at youth level where we now have a higher calibre of recruit with a setup led by people like Nick Cox who he brought to the club and we're currently the FA Youth Cup champions.

It hasn't been a year, but rather about 6 months into his role as the 'de-facto DoF as I explained to you above. And from what I'm seeing so far, he's made the correct moves by bringing in EtH, Dominic Jordan and is in the process of hiring someone in a head of scouting role according to reports, which is a extremely important role on the recruitment side of any club. And it's a role that many on here have often confused with the DoF role.

You also talk about the DoF having 'vision' and that's exactly what he's shown by hiring a head coach who implements a modern progressive play style which we've failed to do since the great man retired in 2013. He's also shown the vision to hire our first data scientist on the football side of the club in Dominic Jordan, who will reportedly lead a team of data scientists to aid performance and recruitment. And every single player we're linked to thus far by reputable sources is a player that is in-sync with high intensity positional play, which is the requirement of the current head coach. And once he (Murtough) brings in the head of scouting and gets the ball rolling with the data analytics team, I'm sure we'll see more diversity in our approach to recruitment. But our recruitment structure in it's current guise, isn't as thorough and detailed as what we see at clubs like Liverpool. And it took Klopp a while to rectify the problem hence he mostly bought players who were either associated to the German or Austrian Bundesliga in his first foray in the transfer market in the summer of 2016. And he did that because those players understood his methods from the get go, and aided him on the training ground and hence it helped the existing players, too.

So your saying that Murtough’s first 6 months in the job don’t count he didn’t have any power? Prior to that Woodward basialy appointed him to assist Ole? If this is true ( and I haven’t seen any evidence of this being true) Then it brings all kind of worries in its own, it makes his original appointment sound like a token jesture to appease fans and the media who said the club needed a DOF. It’s also a point that if that was job he was appointed to do and now he is basically in charge or running the football side of United a club that has been ran like a car crash

Again I don’t see how you see this as positive.

No what he has done currently is hire the most popular guy for the job, somthing which, Van Gaal, Mourinho and Ole all where to when they where given the job on a permanent bases. And is now going can you name some targets for us becuase we can’t do it ourselves currently (even though is my job to ensure we can, I have only been allowed to do my job for 6 months before that I was just basically a token DOF, but it’s ok now I’m a real DOF and in a year or so I maybe able to do the job).

So far there has been no difference to the previous system of being bring in a manger, ask them what targets they want, normally then there is a very long winded attempt to sign them. Which is 100% what is currently happening

 

[Nytram Shakes]

Adnan's blind faith in Murtough is weird. I suggest you stop and slowly walk away.

Yeah it is. I don't understand it and your probably right.

 

[Adnan]

So your saying that Murtough’s first 6 months in the job don’t count he didn’t have any power? Prior to that Woodward basialy appointed him to assist Ole? If this is true ( and I haven’t seen any evidence of this being true) Then it brings all kind of worries in its own, it makes his original appointment sound like a token jesture to appease fans and the media who said the club needed a DOF. It’s also a point that if that was job he was appointed to do and now he is basically in charge or running the football side of United a club that has been ran like a car crash

I'm saying a DoF isn't a DoF unless he has total control over the football side of the club. And he never had that at the club until Solskjaer and Woodward departed and Richard Arnold took a hands off approach to the football side of the club.


He hired EtH when it was well documented that most of the ex players and even Woodward wanted Pochettino at the club. He appointed a head coach who unlike the previous incumbents, implements a brand of attacking, progressive football that hasn't been seen at the club post Fergie.

So far there has been a difference because we're trying to sign players for a proactive attacking brand of football and not a reactive counter attacking brand of football.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

It wouldnt surprise me if he was dof in name only until the narcissistic Woodward went in Feb this year.

But if that's true we are trusting someone to rebuild the football side of the club, who was hired to be a token DOF, by Woodward who has spent 9 years in the job proving he wouldn't know a good football appointment from bad one. If that's true then its really worrying, as it basically says Murtough wasn't actually hired to do the job he is now doing and has now just become a real DOF by default.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I'm saying a DoF isn't a DoF unless he has total control over the football side of the club. And he never had that at the club until Solskjaer and Woodward departed and Richard Arnold took a hand off approach to the football side of the club.

He hired EtH when it was well documented that most of the ex players and even Woodward wanted Pochettino at the club. He appointed a head coach who unlike the previous incumbents, implements a brand of attacking, progressive football that hasn't been seen at the club post Fergie.

So far there has been a difference because we're trying to sign players for a proactive attacking brand of football and not a reactive counter-attacking brand of football.

And now Murtough has full control, despite the fact that its clearly Ten Hag who is dictating the targets, but that's because we haven't got a working scouting network, which apparently isn't Murtoughs fault, because he has only had real power for a few months before that nothing is his fault because he was only a DOF in name only, and in no way should that be worrying.

 

[romufc]

Great idea to turn down Paul Mitchell and Rangnick. Two guys who've actually run clubs well and built clubs from the ground up. No Rangnick being a bad manager doesn't make him a bad DoF. We need to stop promoting from within and find the best in field.

Tell me, what clubs has he built from the ground? Both Mitchell and Rangnick, then tell me how many major trophies they have won.

 

[dubplate warrior]

And now Murtough has full control, despite the fact that its clearly Ten Hag who is dictating the targets, but that's because we haven't got a working scouting network, which apparently isn't Murtoughs fault, because he has only had real power for a few months before that nothing is his fault because he was only a DOF in name only, and in no way should that be worrying.

He hasn't been in the role more than 6 months, I think you need to give him a couple of seasons to implement his own ideas and structures in order to see if he's for better or worse.

His role under Woodward was nowhere near as involved as it is now, to be honest I'm liking some of the things he's doing.

Out of curiosity how quickly do you think Murtough should be able to implement a world class infrastructure and hierarchy within the footballing side of the club? He's renovating the recruitment side of the pitch, hired a assistant football director and Head of data science. The only thing you can go by is what he did with our academy, which we all would agree is very good? Give him time in the role he's actually in with the responsibilities he actually has mate.

 

[Adnan]

And now Murtough has full control, despite the fact that its clearly Ten Hag who is dictating the targets, but that's because we haven't got a working scouting network, which apparently isn't Murtoughs fault, because he has only had real power for a few months before that nothing is his fault because he was only a DOF in name only, and in no way should that be worrying.

How is it Murtough's fault that the scouting at first team level isn't working?

 

[Nytram Shakes]

How is it Murtough's fault that the scouting at first team level isn't working?

Becuase it’s his job to make sure it is.

Even if it’s as you say well he didn’t have any real input on transfers befoere ole/Woodward left, you saying also he had no input on how scouting network before then to. What exactly was he employed to do? Did he just spend 6 months going for lunch.

Again if that’s true then that’s worrying then we basically have a DOF who was originally hired to sit on his ass. And is now pretty much redundant becuase he’s just gone hey Ten Hag what do we need and who should we bring in?

 

[Yakuza_devils]

I have seen many reasons given:

1) Murtough only 6 months in the job with full power as DOF. Prior to that it's still Woodward and Ole running the 1st team.

2) The scouting department is not ready because the head scouts were being sacked recently.

3) Murtough needs more time to implement his ideas.

4) Nobody can foresee how bad Rangnick was and we can't blame Murtough for appointed him as Manager and sacked him as consultant.

5) This window our squad is in need of major surgery. But so far we only signed 1 LB and sold Pereira. But it's not Murtough's fault because Barca and Ajax are difficult to deal and we don't want to overpay.

6) We are only targeting Eredivise linked players who ETH is familiar with. If this doesn't work out, it will be a disaster again But Murtough has no choice because our scouting department is not ready yet.

Just wondering what if we get a very experienced DOF with all the right people and connection. Will our rebuild be much faster and more efficient? So far it seems nothing change from Woodward to Arnold era except we have appointed a very good coach in ETH.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

He hasn't been in the role more than 6 months, I think you need to give him a couple of seasons to implement his own ideas and structures in order to see if he's for better or worse.

His role under Woodward was nowhere near as involved as it is now, to be honest I'm liking some of the things he's doing.

Out of curiosity how quickly do you think Murtough should be able to implement a world class infrastructure and hierarchy within the footballing side of the club? He's renovating the recruitment side of the pitch, hired a assistant football director and Head of data science. The only thing you can go by is what he did with our academy, which we all would agree is very good? Give him time in the role he's actually in with the responsibilities he actually has mate.

He was hired as DOF in April 2021, and has been at the club for 9 years in diffrent roles. I would at minimum expect him to have had a good knowledge of why the club as Arnold put it “burnt through a Billion” with minimal to show for it.

Should he have the perfect structure in place by now ? Maybe not, should the club be in a position to be able to identify targets that fit with the Murtoughs and by assumed proxy Ten Hags philosophy for the club by this point in his tenure, without all the targets clearly being the incoming mangers choice’s? 100%.

 

[Keefy18]

FdJ, Eriksen, Martinez doing their medicals within 48 to 72 hours and on the flight to Asia for pre-season training. And 20% sell on fees just like Pereria got from Fulham!

Well none of this happened sadly

 

[JB7]

Tell me, what clubs has he built from the ground? Both Mitchell and Rangnick, then tell me how many major trophies they have won.

Paul Mitchell - MK Dons, Southampton, RB Leipzig, Monaco
Ralf Rangnick - Stuttgart, Hannover, Schalke, Hoffenheim, RB Leipzig

Would people be happy if we were the level of those clubs? I find this whole argument tiresome. Why have none of the genuinely big clubs ever gone for either of them if they're these supposed geniuses in their field?

 

[Adnan]

Becuase it’s his job to make sure it is.

Even if it’s as you say well he didn’t have any real input on transfers befoere ole/Woodward left, you saying also he had no input on how scouting network before then to. What exactly was he employed to do? Did he just spend 6 months going for lunch.

Again if that’s true then that’s worrying then we basically have a DOF who was originally hired to sit on his ass. And is now pretty much redundant becuase he’s just gone hey Ten Hag what do we need and who should we bring in?

His job is to structure the football side of the club where the football departments are aligned and streamlined towards helping the head coach achieve on field success. And you can only do that in the modern game if you have that structure in place. He didn't have that structure in place hence he sacked the head scouts and has brought in a data scientist to head a team to aid the development on the football side of the club.

It doesn't happen overnight at a club like United who have been left behind when it comes to utilising data analytics to back up the recruitment and on pitch performance. So like I've said in one of my prior posts, i'm going to Judge his work once he has Dominic Jordan and the head of scouting in their roles at the start of the season.

You judge a DoF on the structure he's built and not the first team structure that was put together by others with the absence of a high level data analytics team.

 

[JPRouve]

Paul Mitchell - MK Dons, Southampton, RB Leipzig, Monaco
Ralf Rangnick - Stuttgart, Hannover, Schalke, Hoffenheim, RB Leipzig

Would people be happy if we were the level of those clubs? I find this whole argument tiresome. Why have none of the genuinely big clubs ever gone for either of them if they're these supposed geniuses in their field?

Because clubs tend to hire internally. The funny thing about these two is that their careers aren't typical.

 

[JB7]

Because clubs tend to hire internally. The funny thing about these two is that their careers aren't typical.

I completely understand that and just wanted to make the point; so why are people up in arms when we hire internally?

 

[Keefy18]

John Murtough has been the de facto DoF since Ed Woodward stepped down, and the tier 1 journalists have alluded to this.

March 10th 2021 - Official press release
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...t-of-football-director-and-technical-director

You can spin it anyway you like about tier 1 journo's, there's absolutely no freakin way a club our size rolls out official statements whilst publicly trading, without the person actually being in their role as much as a year like you are suggesting.

The below message from Yumtum is absolutely spot on.

Murtough was appointed in March 2021, so far he's:

- Signed Ole to a longer deal
- Gave Ole a holiday in hopes of turning the disaster around
- sacked Ole anyway
- Hired a Data Analyst
- Hired Ralf as interim and consultant
- Didn't listen to the interim on what was needed in January
- Sacked two head scouts
- Hired Ten Hag
- Sacked the consultant
- Accepted Matt Judge' resignation.

Thats off the top of my head, but the negative in that list far outweigh the positive.

You can't attribute the resignation of Judge as Murtough getting rid of someone, oh and he has failed to replace Judge during his notice period and hasn't replaced the head scouts.

Can only hope Ten Hag can become the miracle Murtough and Co hopes him to be.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

His job is to structure the football side of the club where the football departments are aligned and streamlined towards helping the head coach achieve on field success. And you can only do that in the modern game if you have that structure in place. He didn't have that structure in place hence he sacked the head scouts and has brought in a data scientist to head a team to aid the development on the football side of the club.

It doesn't happen overnight at a club like United who have been left behind when it comes to utilising data analytics to back up the recruitment and on pitch performance. So like I've said in one of my prior posts, i'm going to Judge his work once he has Dominic Jordan and the head of scouting in their roles at the start of the season.

You judge a DoF on the structure he's built and not the first team structure that was put together by others with the absence of a high level data analytics team.

I agree with a lot of that, my issue is we are over a year into his reign, and we are mid-way through the transfer window when the club is preparing to spend a huge amount of money again after a disastrous season, (where the manager who was appointed for the second half of the season was Murtoughs choice) and we are 100% reliant on the knowledge of the incoming manger in terms of who we bring in and spend a huge amount of money on (a situation having a DOF is meant to avoid). We are struggling to get those targets is and if what your saying about the situation with the scouting network is true we are unlikely to B's or C's).

Yet your completely saying that no part of that whats so ever is Murtoughs fault despite it being his job to avoid this situation. You also seem to have utterly blind faith in the guy despite the fact you were hired to be DOF Woodward (who I think everyone would agree was inept in terms of football decisions) and was only hired basically to be token appointment.

You just seem to be giving him a pass on every negative.

 

[JPRouve]

I completely understand that and just wanted to make the point; so why are people up in arms when we hire internally?

I assumed that it was a rhetorical question and tried to make your point a bit more explicit.

People are up in arms because they have no clue about what they are talking about. To make it fairly simple, Monchi explained it in an interview, midtable clubs or non-elite clubs work differently than elite clubs, they rely on a different type of networks, they have different goals and build different business models. It's not obvious that an excellent DOF for Monaco will do a good job for Manchester United, the best DOF for United is unilkely to be a good fit for Leipzig or Leverkusen because the goals are different, the profile of players they target are different, the timelines are different.

 

[Adnan]

March 10th 2021 - Official press release
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/deta...t-of-football-director-and-technical-director

You can spin it anyway you like about tier 1 journo's, there's absolutely no freakin way a club our size rolls out official statements whilst publicly trading, without the person actually being in their role as much as a year like you are suggesting.

The below message from Yumtum is absolutely spot on.

Yes I'm aware that it was announced that John Murtough was the football director at the date mentioned. But he didn't have power over Solskjaer as mentioned by The Athletic and by the manager Solskjaer himself, who went on record and said the manager would still have the final say on all football decisions.

That's not the remit of a DoF.

 

[Keefy18]

Yes I'm aware that it was announced that John Murtough was the football director at the date mentioned. But he didn't have power over Solskjaer as mentioned by The Athletic and by the manager Solskjaer himself, who went on record and said the manager would still have the final say on all football decisions.

That's not the remit of a DoF.

That's absolute nonsense!

No person would go into a job like his as a DoF knowing they had no input into the most important role linked to their job safety.

Fully convinced Ole didn't want Ronaldo, I mean look how his team fell apart so shortly after. That was a board / Fergie decision for marketing reasons, which Murtough is a part of.

 

[Adnan]

I agree with a lot of that, my issue is we are over a year into his reign, and we are mid-way through the transfer window when the club is preparing to spend a huge amount of money again after a disastrous season, (where the manager who was appointed for the second half of the season was Murtoughs choice) and we are 100% reliant on the knowledge of the incoming manger in terms of who we bring in and spend a huge amount of money on (a situation having a DOF is meant to avoid). We are struggling to get those targets is and if what your saying about the situation with the scouting network is true we are unlikely to B's or C's).

Yet your completely saying that no part of that whats so ever is Murtoughs fault despite it being his job to avoid this situation. You also seem to have utterly blind faith in the guy despite the fact you were hired to be DOF Woodward (who I think everyone would agree was inept in terms of football decisions) and was only hired basically to be token appointment.

You just seem to be giving him a pass on every negative.

All I'm saying to you is that we haven't got to a stage where I can make a judgement on John Murtough. The Liverpool fans were calling for Michael Edwards to be sacked 2 years after he was appointed the Sporting director. And his success at Liverpool humbled me into looking at things even closely on the structural side of football clubs.

I don't support individuals but rather I support my club. And for me it's imperative we let John Murtough structure the football side where we finally have a scouting team that is backed up by high level data analytics. And we haven't had such a approach and our rivals did, hence we've been left behind. I've seen Murtough's work at youth level at a time when I used to be extremely critical of the club when they neglected youth development under David Gill. But I'm happy with the job he did and I witnessed the development my self by watching the majority of the games.

If in two years time I don't see development at first team level, then I will have no issues calling Murtough or anyone else out for that matter. I supported Van Gaal for a period of time and had no issues calling for his sacking in his second season. You have to give someone time on the structural side of the club to develop and modernise the club. Because the way recruitment at first team was structured in a manager led approach was a sham. And it's going to take time to sort previous issues out.

 

[Nytram Shakes]

I completely understand that and just wanted to make the point; so why are people up in arms when we hire internally?

The reason why is because the football side of the club has been so badly for such a long period of time, and seemed so desperate for new knowledge and expertise from outside the club with experience of how to properly run the football side of the business yet the club seemed so reluctant to go down that path, then after years of pretty much everyone screaming you need a director of football someone internal is hired. Of course, a huge part of the fan reaction is going to range from sceptical to exasperation.

Add to that there seems to be an implication that Murtough wasn't even hired to really be a DOF other than in name and now has basically become a real DOF by default that is of course even more exasperation and worry from fans.

 

[Amir]

Yes I'm aware that it was announced that John Murtough was the football director at the date mentioned. But he didn't have power over Solskjaer as mentioned by The Athletic and by the manager Solskjaer himself, who went on record and said the manager would still have the final say on all football decisions.

Doesn't seem like he has power over the manager now either, when it comes to transfers. And he never will with ETH. Once they've allowed ETH to bring his own players, that's the way it will stay as long as he is the manager.

 

[Adnan]

That's absolute nonsense!

No person would go into a job like his as a DoF knowing they had no input into the most important role linked to their job safety.

Fully convinced Ole didn't want Ronaldo, I mean look how his team fell apart so shortly after. That was a board / Fergie decision for marketing reasons, which Murtough is a part of.

Ole was talking nonsense?

You can convince yourself that Ole didn't want Ronaldo, but both The Times and The Athletic reported that it was Solskjaer who pushed ahead with the Ronaldo signing. The Times went on to say that Solskjaer ignored the advice of his coaching staff to sign Ronaldo because he felt Ronaldo's goals would make up for his deficiencies off the ball. This is what happens when you allow a manager who doesn't coach the team to sign players, which then puts pressure on the actual training ground coaches like Kieran Mckenna who is then tasked with coaching the team.

I'm also familiar with your postings and I do know you have mentioned that you were a 'staunch' Ole supporter.