The Housing Crisis (UK)

It's a different name for the same thing. Like i say Blair set the blueprint that's been continued ever since, the only difference is how far beneath the surface the government of the time wishes to bury it. My best friend at school had Iranian guys working in the kitchen at his dad's takeaway. Zero English, £200 quid a week cash to send home, and as far as anybody was concerned they didn't exist here. This was about 20 years ago.

And the funny thing is that we blame immigrants but not the companies that hires them like this. You catch an immigrant, deport him and another one will come. You catch a company owner and has nowhere else to go. So if you fine him/her, will think twice.

Always blame immigration but never companies that in the end, they exploit them and enrich through the exploitation and it is way easier to catch a fix entity like a company that a fluid resource like an illegal worker

Keep pointing fingers to the poor. Never look who is the one pointing fingers.

Same with housing. Immigration is to blame. Not the owners or specially, the multiproperty owners. The narrative is disgusting
 
And the funny thing is that we blame immigrants but not the companies that hires them like this. You catch an immigrant, deport him and another one will come. You catch a company owner and has nowhere else to go. So if you fine him/her, will think twice.

Always blame immigration but never companies that in the end, they exploit them and enrich through the exploitation and it is way easier to catch a fix entity like a company that a fluid resource like an illegal worker

Keep pointing fingers to the poor. Never look who is the one pointing fingers.

Same with housing. Immigration is to blame. Not the owners or specially, the multiproperty owners. The narrative is disgusting

Agreed.

Another thing that isn't mentioned enough - the amount of people with generational wealth who don't need to work (or barely need to work). There's plenty of people who have inherited wealth who live entirely off savings/investments, or partially, or further invest those savings into businesses or property. They profit from immigrant workers - either as cheap labour, or tenants pushing the housing market up. This has a huge knock on effect imo - wages stagnate because of increased competition for jobs (higher profits for wealthy business owners), house prices and rent rockets because of the increased demand.

I know a guy who in his early 20s bought a house outright with inherited money. A big, family home that he wouldn't have afforded himself even with a decade or so of savings. The advantage he has over other people is ridiculous. He's only worked a medium-low paying job, but he's mortgage free so had a few hundred extra each month to put into savings. Fast forward 10 years and he has a ton of money in savings/investments, and surprise surprise he is now looking at investing in a rental property to profit off people who don't have that head start. And this guy is small fry compared to families that give millions to their future generations.
 
And the funny thing is that we blame immigrants but not the companies that hires them like this. You catch an immigrant, deport him and another one will come. You catch a company owner and has nowhere else to go. So if you fine him/her, will think twice.

Always blame immigration but never companies that in the end, they exploit them and enrich through the exploitation and it is way easier to catch a fix entity like a company that a fluid resource like an illegal worker

Keep pointing fingers to the poor. Never look who is the one pointing fingers.

Same with housing. Immigration is to blame. Not the owners or specially, the multiproperty owners. The narrative is disgusting

A local takeaway is hardly running an exploitation racket, but that's exactly what the authorities try to do, on paper at least, but the UK is well known to largely ignore illegal labour. It keeps the economy going round and that's a part of why people are willing to risk that crossing.
 
In fact, UK housebuilding peaked in the 1960s and it has never really recovered. Between eye-watering dividends for construction company shareholders, a desperate need for planning reform, and debates around carbon footprints and emissions, there is no quick fix.
Finally, the present crisis is above all about declining affordability, and this reflects – among other important things – a dramatic long-run change in the shape of the income distribution.

Wage growth in the 1990s and 2000s was barely half that of the 1970s and 1980s. Further wage stagnation followed the global financial crisis of 2007-09. Critically, over that period, as home prices and housing costs rose, the income shares of the top 10% and bottom 50% diverged.
https://www.economicsobservatory.com/how-can-we-tackle-the-uks-housing-crisis
 
A local takeaway is hardly running an exploitation racket, but that's exactly what the authorities try to do, on paper at least, but the UK is well known to largely ignore illegal labour. It keeps the economy going round and that's a part of why people are willing to risk that crossing.


Way to brush it off, buddy

Poor local takeaway but not poor exploited immigrants right? I think the authorities are more focused on blaming the damn illegal boats, not on the companies that hire the illegals. I don't see in the news cycles constantly talking about the shitty companies that exploit immigrants and they are the cause of the call effect.

And then you say the only right sentence. We like the benefits of immigration but not the consequences and blame them for the consequences to them. Lovely

And as long as we say just this long sentences we feel ok that we said our piece. But then we write an essay with 4 or 5 paraphs why immigration is a problem for this and that. I will keep waiting for the other side of the coin that is the real problem
 
Way to brush it off, buddy

Poor local takeaway but not poor exploited immigrants right? I think the authorities are more focused on blaming the damn illegal boats, not on the companies that hire the illegals. I don't see in the news cycles constantly talking about the shitty companies that exploit immigrants and they are the cause of the call effect.

And then you say the only right sentence. We like the benefits of immigration but not the consequences and blame them for the consequences to them. Lovely

And as long as we say just this long sentences we feel ok that we said our piece. But then we write an essay with 4 or 5 paraphs why immigration is a problem for this and that. I will keep waiting for the other side of the coin that is the real problem

If you think about it it's quite obvious why the hiring companies aren't in the news cycle; nobody knows who they are. It's not like it's Tesco hiring hundreds of illegal workers and the local Dixy chicken employing an illegal dish cleaner isn't really a story for the BBC.
 
If you think about it it's quite obvious why the hiring companies aren't in the news cycle; nobody knows who they are. It's not like it's Tesco hiring hundreds of illegal workers and the local Dixy chicken employing an illegal dish cleaner isn't really a story for the BBC.

No want knows either who the immigrants are either and that doesn't stop the new cycles to frame them as an entity. Why not bombarding with the illegal hiring like the real culprits?

Excuses

There is a narrative set by the ones that benefit from them and consequences that are not even caused by immigrants are pin on them as a scape goat

And please, on the initial point. Digging a little bit they could find a lot of dirt and related the shady companies to the big ones so they have to subcontract more reliable companies.

Excuses excuses and more excuses
 
I would recommend the book - Against Landlords by Nick Bano.

It’s a problem in many places but a unique issue in Britain is landlordism.
Landlords are tumbling it of the market though (at least where I am), so is the problem finally being sorted?
 
Landlords are tumbling it of the market though (at least where I am), so is the problem finally being sorted?

Dropped to 7% of the housing market now. Demand is still the same so all that's happened is rental prices went up. In my area by about 40% in 3 years.

Lots of people do still want to rent in the UK.
 
Dropped to 7% of the housing market now. Demand is still the same so all that's happened is rental prices went up. In my area by about 40% in 3 years.

Lots of people do still want to rent in the UK.
Lots of people don't "want". Lots of people don't have any other option
 
Let me guess, the evil landlords are entirely to blame?

you can go in hyperbole mode as much as you want. That will not make the problem to disappear in the thin air. Being facetious with a one pathetic one liners don't win arguments.

No one is evil per se. No particular is getting filthy rich and people will play by the rules that are given. But yes, a landlord that own another property to rent is part of the big problem that the politicians created and also investing firms that invests in real state for rental purposes and speculation. Stop multiproperty and a big part of the problem would disappear. Lots of people would lose equity but if you treat an asset like an investment, you should be prepared to lose like any stock market. An asset that you only win and win and win and win is not an investment but perpetuating a class divide
 
It's a different name for the same thing. Like i say Blair set the blueprint that's been continued ever since, the only difference is how far beneath the surface the government of the time wishes to bury it. My best friend at school had Iranian guys working in the kitchen at his dad's takeaway. Zero English, £200 quid a week cash to send home, and as far as anybody was concerned they didn't exist here. This was about 20 years ago.
Just a pathetic post.

Taking anecdotal evidence to determine that most immigrants are like this. Well my sister’s boyfriend’s second niece’s dog walker’s hairdresser’s husband has been claiming back pain for 37 years therefore everyone on long-term sick is a grifting chancer!

Secondly, you see that scenario with the Iranian and think “feck that Iranian for exploiting the system” whereas anyone who’s brain hasn’t been boiled by 50yr of Daily Mail bile should be thinking “feck the owner of the takeaway for exploiting the system AND the Iranian guy”

For Christ’s sake!
 
Just a pathetic post.

Taking anecdotal evidence to determine that most immigrants are like this. Well my sister’s boyfriend’s second niece’s dog walker’s hairdresser’s husband has been claiming back pain for 37 years therefore everyone on long-term sick is a grifting chancer!

Secondly, you see that scenario with the Iranian and think “feck that Iranian for exploiting the system” whereas anyone who’s brain hasn’t been boiled by 50yr of Daily Mail bile should be thinking “feck the owner of the takeaway for exploiting the system AND the Iranian guy”

For Christ’s sake!

Personally I think, feck the corrupt idiot fecks at the Home Office who must know about many of the illegal employers and yet rarely go after any of them, rather demonising the exploited employees. I'll say it, Katsouris Brothers.
 
The biggest problem is that for the last 40 years, people have been encouraged to invest in property to secure their retirement to the point that the economy is so intrinsically linked to house prices that it’s impossible to address the crisis without creating a different economic crisis.

As the latter economic crisis will disproportionately impact the main voting demographic there’s not a single MP with the motivation or courage to even speak about it let alone propose action.
Yep spot on.
 
Besides the obvious of building new homes and renovating existing ones not in use, restricting overseas ownership and speculation would be an easy measure to implement. Spain's PM is proposing a 100% tax on non-EU buyers, mainly Brits, Americans and Mexicans, and other countries do similar.

In Singapore they charge 60% stamp duty for non-residents buying property. I have a colleague here who has a couple of BTLs in Manchester- they're sold as investment schemes throughout Asia.

Spain proposes 100% tax on property purchases for non-EU buyers​

https://www.ft.com/content/8e2e9f04-1606-4d2d-8b9c-0094b1cef038
 
Turning housing into a commodity/investment has fecked it for the poor and now even for up and coming middle earners. No government has the balls to actually fix it, as it means some of the well off (mostly boomers) losing money in property values. We need more housing and rent caps. The unaffordability is also fueling the immigration issue as young people simply can't afford to have kids.

I was lucky enough to find a decent paying job and stay at home with parents for long enough to save for a big deposit but there are millions of others in my age group who don't have that luxury. I feel really bad for the younger generation as it is only getting worse, no government is willing to regulate it or do anything to fix the issue either.
Boomers mostly own their properties which are worth way more than they paid for them, they shoudn't be too worried about propety prices falling, the people who are/should be worried are the ones that still have mortgages and are at risk of negative equity if prices fall
 
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Boomers mostly own their properties which are worth way more than they paid for them, they shoudn't be too worried about propety prices falling, the people who are/should be worried are the ones that still have mortgages and are at risk of negative equity if prices fall

I understand yhe risk of negative equity. Maybe it would need to be backed up by goverment if default. (Didnt the goverments backed up the banks in 2008?). But only the home owners with one home. Second homes should be treated as an investment because is what it is: an investment. And when you invest you risk to lose partially or all

For the first owners they should take it as it was. I plan to spend that much money because i wanted to live there, not to speculate

And you have to start somewhere someday. And i am talking as a owner by proxy contribuiting to a mortgage.
 
I understand yhe risk of negative equity. Maybe it would need to be backed up by goverment if default. (Didnt the goverments backed up the banks in 2008?). But only the home owners with one home. Second homes should be treated as an investment because is what it is: an investment. And when you invest you risk to lose partially or all

For the first owners they should take it as it was. I plan to spend that much money because i wanted to live there, not to speculate

And you have to start somewhere someday. And i am talking as a owner by proxy contribuiting to a mortgage.
Very true.

However I don't see how shafting everyone invested in the housing market is going to lead to better housing availability? Britains housing stock is already pretty dire in relation to it's wealth. High rents haven't solved that over the past 30 (?) years either.

Being fecked over for life on mortgages now would fit perfectly though for a generation that graduated into the 2008 economy and is now slowly finding to it's feet after the shit show decade of brexit and covid.
 
I understand yhe risk of negative equity. Maybe it would need to be backed up by goverment if default. (Didnt the goverments backed up the banks in 2008?). But only the home owners with one home. Second homes should be treated as an investment because is what it is: an investment. And when you invest you risk to lose partially or all

For the first owners they should take it as it was. I plan to spend that much money because i wanted to live there, not to speculate

And you have to start somewhere someday. And i am talking as a owner by proxy contribuiting to a mortgage.
Pushing millions of mortgageholders -those that have had to pay the inflated prices in recent years and haven't made gains- is not an equitable solution.
 
Besides the obvious of building new homes and renovating existing ones not in use, restricting overseas ownership and speculation would be an easy measure to implement. Spain's PM is proposing a 100% tax on non-EU buyers, mainly Brits, Americans and Mexicans, and other countries do similar.

In Singapore they charge 60% stamp duty for non-residents buying property. I have a colleague here who has a couple of BTLs in Manchester- they're sold as investment schemes throughout Asia.

Spain proposes 100% tax on property purchases for non-EU buyers​

https://www.ft.com/content/8e2e9f04-1606-4d2d-8b9c-0094b1cef038
Oh yeah. Forgot all about these.

Should be 100% banned for residential property.

Also lack of rent control. The "rental market", should not be profitable. Housing should be regulated to make it affordable for all.
 
Just a pathetic post.

Taking anecdotal evidence to determine that most immigrants are like this. Well my sister’s boyfriend’s second niece’s dog walker’s hairdresser’s husband has been claiming back pain for 37 years therefore everyone on long-term sick is a grifting chancer!

Secondly, you see that scenario with the Iranian and think “feck that Iranian for exploiting the system” whereas anyone who’s brain hasn’t been boiled by 50yr of Daily Mail bile should be thinking “feck the owner of the takeaway for exploiting the system AND the Iranian guy”

For Christ’s sake!

I'm not a child still clinging onto student politics so I don't think either of them were exploited or exploiting anything.

The employees were happy earning multiples more than they ever could have done back homes, and as an Iranian emigrant themselves the employer was happy to provide the work for his countrymen.

That's the likely situation for the vast majority. All sides happy with the deal.
 
I'm not a child still clinging onto student politics so I don't think either of them were exploited or exploiting anything.

The employees were happy earning multiples more than they ever could have done back homes, and as an Iranian emigrant themselves the employer was happy to provide the work for his countrymen.

That's the likely situation for the vast majority. All sides happy with the deal.
I tell you what, you respond to challenge, uniquely.

UK has minimum wage laws, so Takeaway uses 'grey market' workers to subvert that for profit = Exploiting the system

UK has workers' rights laws to give employees various protections, so uses a 'grey market' worker to avoid these = Exploiting the system and the worker

Nothing 'student politics' about it, and it's funny whenever somone uses nonsense like that as a perjorative in an argument.
 
you can go in hyperbole mode as much as you want. That will not make the problem to disappear in the thin air. Being facetious with a one pathetic one liners don't win arguments.

No one is evil per se. No particular is getting filthy rich and people will play by the rules that are given. But yes, a landlord that own another property to rent is part of the big problem that the politicians created and also investing firms that invests in real state for rental purposes and speculation. Stop multiproperty and a big part of the problem would disappear. Lots of people would lose equity but if you treat an asset like an investment, you should be prepared to lose like any stock market. An asset that you only win and win and win and win is not an investment but perpetuating a class divide

You can't do that without screwing over the millions of mortgage holders in the country and crashing the economy by undermining the lenders.

The problem is not with the people buying one or two BTLs to provide retirement income because the government took away any other option. What needs addressing is professional landlords buying hundreds or thousands of properties.
 
Oh yeah. Forgot all about these.

Should be 100% banned for residential property.

Also lack of rent control. The "rental market", should not be profitable. Housing should be regulated to make it affordable for all.
I am curious how people who want rid of BTL landlords envision their preferred rental market model? The government buying up the c5.5m rental homes and letting them out on a not for profit basis, selling those to people who can afford them? Or more likely BlackRock et al replacing the smaller landlords.
 
I am curious how people who want rid of BTL landlords envision their preferred rental market model? The government buying up the c5.5m rental homes and letting them out on a not for profit basis, selling those to people who can afford them? Or more likely BlackRock et al replacing the smaller landlords.
Why would black rock do it if there's no profit to be made?

Either the government would have to offer housing solutions or there would be none.With all consequences that carriers with it.
 
I tell you what, you respond to challenge, uniquely.

UK has minimum wage laws, so Takeaway uses 'grey market' workers to subvert that for profit = Exploiting the system

UK has workers' rights laws to give employees various protections, so uses a 'grey market' worker to avoid these = Exploiting the system and the worker

Nothing 'student politics' about it, and it's funny whenever somone uses nonsense like that as a perjorative in an argument.

See that's where you're going wrong, you automatically think the reason anybody is doing anything is to exploit something. You see the edge cases in the news so it's understandable but in a great many cases it's simply a transaction both sides are happy to make.
 
Part of the problem is the profit margins for developers aren't actually as big as people generally think, most of the sector, oarticularly at professional level, has a severe shortage of people working in it, and its being made more and more diffuclt with red tape to actually build houses.

The government and local councils on one hand are actively trying to get developers to build, but then they invariably have to fight a sometimes lengthly battle with the local planning to get permission, then the regs keep being made complex. Now a house has to be energy efficient enough to keep warm, but can't be too warm in case it overheats, so has to also be very well ventilated, but can't be too well ventilated because then it wont stay warm, but can't be too underventilated because the rules on ventilation have also been made harder to comply with....and this is just for standard two/three storey houses. Once you get into blocks of flats the fire regulations are a minefield now. One of the things to come out of Grenfell was that the regulations were too complicaed and even experts didn't understand them. Now they are even more complicated. You also can't start any work until all of your designs have been approved as compliant, which makes sense in principle but only a specialist level registered surveyor can check them, and there aren't many of those because that's another relatively new thing and the process to get registered/validated at specialist level really isn't worth the hassle to most surveyors (who there are nowhere near enough of anyway). Either that or they get told tey aren't experienced enough. Even when a specilaist does check it, its highly unlikely they'd approve everything straight away, because there are too many regulations to check and too much vagueness within them for that to ever happen. Even once everything has been approved - I have yet to be on any site where there hasn't been an issue that's meant the design has had to be changed anyway, so then you go back through the whole process again.

Then IF they do manage to get as far as building them, a lot of the time, partiularly with flats, they end up pre-selling a majority to an investor as that's the only way they guarantee they aren't going to make a huge loss. The investor then rents them at an extortionate price. Basically no one is building affordable housing because they system is set up so that if you do that, you will lose money.

What there should be is a stream lined processand a rule that one person or whatever business they set themselves up as cannot rent more than say, 3 properties at a time. Neither of these things will happen though because both would involve people losing money who are currently getting it by doing absolutely feck all.

The whole buy a house just to do it up and immediately sell it for a profit culture also needs to die a death. You have a cycle where either the housing market stalls or as soon as it picks up this practice along with landlords being greedy over rent helps push the prices up at 3 times the speed that is healthy. People in this country seem to see a house as a financial/profit tool rather than a home which is not only greedy but pretty dumb.
 
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See that's where you're going wrong, you automatically think the reason anybody is doing anything is to exploit something. You see the edge cases in the news so it's understandable but in a great many cases it's simply a transaction both sides are happy to make.
But they're not mutually exclusive. Exploitative -> unfairly or cynically using another person or group for profit or advantage.

Sure, the pay being offered in the grey market of the takeaway would be more than in Iran, but by UK law the employer is not giving workplace protection and is therefor exploiting the worker. What can the worker do in this 'mutually beneficial' agreement if they get hurt at work, or if the owner asks for excessive hours etc? Nothing.
 
Lots of people don't "want". Lots of people don't have any other option

To get a residential mortgage you need a 5% deposit.

Excluding London, is it really that difficult for people to have saved a bit of money to put down for a deposit?

I live in the north west. You can get a reasonable house for £ 250,000. There's something wrong if people do not have £ 12,500 in savings for a deposit.
 
I'm not a child still clinging onto student politics so I don't think either of them were exploited or exploiting anything.

The employees were happy earning multiples more than they ever could have done back homes, and as an Iranian emigrant themselves the employer was happy to provide the work for his countrymen.

That's the likely situation for the vast majority. All sides happy with the deal.
The poster who backs their points using personal anecdotes talking about "student politics" is pretty hilarious
 
To get a residential mortgage you need a 5% deposit.

Excluding London, is it really that difficult for people to have saved a bit of money to put down for a deposit?

I live in the north west. You can get a reasonable house for £ 250,000. There's something wrong if people do not have £ 12,500 in savings for a deposit.
Firstly, whilst you may have a deposit it doesn't mean you can afford the monthly repayment, especially with the interest rates they currently are at.

Secondly, the UK average salary is currently 37,460, most banks lend at 4.5x salary, there is no way a person on an average salary can get a mortgage of 250k unless they a have an 81k deposit. So it's not as easy as you think.
 
Why would black rock do it if there's no profit to be made?

Either the government would have to offer housing solutions or there would be none.With all consequences that carriers with it.
I'm meaning if you make the margins so slim on it only scale players like BlackRock, L&G and professional BTL landlords can survive.
 
To get a residential mortgage you need a 5% deposit.

Excluding London, is it really that difficult for people to have saved a bit of money to put down for a deposit?

I live in the north west. You can get a reasonable house for £ 250,000. There's something wrong if people do not have £ 12,500 in savings for a deposit.
Correct, there is something wrong. That’s the point.
 
Yeah, the average person gets paid like shit, are expected to not use any of the little they have and live a miserable life just to be able to afford an overpriced home.
To get a residential mortgage you need a 5% deposit.

Excluding London, is it really that difficult for people to have saved a bit of money to put down for a deposit?

I live in the north west. You can get a reasonable house for £ 250,000. There's something wrong if people do not have £ 12,500 in savings for a deposit.