80K in traditional engineering (electrical, mechanical, civil, etc.) is a principal engineer salary. That is how s*** the traditional engineering sector is. Most highly skilled people back home avoiding UK now.
The Housing Crisis (UK)
- Thread starter Jericholyte2
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Imran (@Annihilate Now!) are here to discuss Amad saving our blushes in a win against Southampton as well as our now annual loss at home to Brighton. They discuss Amorim's post-match comments, revisit how mid-table we may or may not be, and discuss some transfer news.
Both are fair points. Healthcare is private as a non-resident, but covered by my work. Housing is more expensive, but general cost of living pretty similar and we didn't have that energy price spike that the UK had.
As a like for like comparison though, I am roughly building savings at around 3.5-4x the rate I could in the UK, starting to at least give me some faint hope of not retiring in penury.
Just for clarification, I was talking about Software Engineering a.k.a the tech sector. Which is supposedly "well paid".
The UK is to be avoided like the plague, unless you have no better options and come from a country in an even worse state. There's a reason that post-Brexit all the migration has been coming from West Africa or the Indian subcontinent.
I don't know why others haven't reinstated this issue more profoundly, the problem for the UK housing market is affordability aside marketing conditions when you add an unproductive economy with dreadful earning potential it emphasizes the issue.
Consider the average individual who graduates; 900,000 graduates in the UK as of last year historically most figures point to only 59% getting into full-time roles within 18 months. Of the 59% the majority will get paid below the UK's average income quota highlighted in the following article which is an aggrandisement on the struggles: https://www.theguardian.com/money/article/2024/aug/29/uk-graduates-struggle-job-market.
The rest of the 41% are either in a rat race to get roles through over inflated job applications or grad schemes (hundreds of applicants with maybe 5% of roles being filled) therefore they acquire jobs they are overqualified for essentially earning minimum wage.
So the education system is failing the economy, there's not enough supply in the job sector to meet the demand of the overall volume of individuals who get undergraduate degrees. Those who fall within that 41% with hindsight would have been better off skipping further education altogether and utilising the apprenticeship model which would give them income at a younger age with the premise to potentially study through a funded programme which gives them a free degree.
Aside this, the only solution is to earn more income and with the job sector issue, creating a business is the only viable option. Despite how badly the education system reflects it's end goals for graduates actually in a vocation, the statistics for successful businesses is even worse and it takes a nuanced skillset to run a profitable SME.
Government would need to create an entirely new learning model to get younger individuals starting more businesses. The results in the success of this are self explanatory, it would create a solution within the economy through the provision of more jobs, new businesses equivocates new markets boosting productivity and if entrepreneurs continue to innovate, earning potential is captivated by continually tapping into emerging demand.
It's either that or rely on an outdated system where so many factors will prohibit the accessibility to a competitive job sector. As said the biggest issue for the housing market is affordability, so earnings needs to be the focus.
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That's not happened here. The top percentage of earners now only earn 3x what the bottom percent do. The minimum wage pays 24k, the average wage is 37k. The breakeven where you contribute more than you take out is around 40k. The bottom 25th percentile has seen double the wage growth of the top 25th percentile whilst tax take is increasingly skewed to the top layers. It's led to a lot of top down pressure on wages and a compressed wage structure that gives little reward for progression.
I think a lot comes from the governments of the day being obsessed with PAYE. Tax on income kills ambition and productivity whilst unearned wealth grows unabated. Especially so when that tax is not put to good use, instead used as giveaways to buy votes from whichever demographic is flavour of the month at the time.
There are people in my team who are amazing in their role and I wanted to put one of them up for promotion a couple of years back, and he refused. He said that the promoted role doesn't represent a worthwhile salary increase considering the increase in responsibility and chances of litigation. I am about to lose the f***er to NEOM, can't really blame him. I have seen similar in other teams as well where people are happy at their current level because there isn't much difference in salary if they go higher. This might just be the case in the traditional engineering (Civils, mechanical, electrical, etc.) sector though.
However, this was exactly the point I was making, as the pay gap between lowest and skilled shrinks you begin to ask yourself if the level of responsibility I’m taking on is worth the hustle? In turn the scarcity begins to build in skilled area forcing companies to offer higher wages to skilled workers as a result it just takes time (decades) to really get back on track. That’s why I believe uncontrolled immigration over decades contributed to the current state of affairs as there was no initiative for businesses for a long time to increase wages to the unskilled workers.
No one with an answer just more gripes like mine 
If you're getting 80% of what you got in Singapore consider yourself extremely lucky
If prices are high i.e. businesses are charging all this money for their goods and services and wages are low where the hell is all the money going. Businesses aren't making supernormal profits either. Not like the FTSE has gone anywhere meaningful. Where the hell is all the money going?!!
If you're getting 80% of what you got in Singapore consider yourself extremely lucky
You can if you like the life here and have some wealth from somewhere else to support you through. But if you're looking to build wealth of your own this place ain't it. I'm in the same boat.
Highly skilled jobs are no different. I-bankers earn a lot you'd say - well it's still 30-40% lower in London than New York. Strategy consultants - same. Tech jobs - half of the US. Programmers etc in those tech jobs probably an even bigger gap. Hell even CEOs (barring the bet365 woman who makes £150m a year) don't get paid the same in the UK as in most other countries.
If prices are high i.e. businesses are charging all this money for their goods and services and wages are low where the hell is all the money going. Businesses aren't making supernormal profits either. Not like the FTSE has gone anywhere meaningful. Where the hell is all the money going?!!
can’t even go there and steal their jobs as payback for them coming over here and stealing our jobs when the going was good, thanks to brexit.
in fairness to the ruling elite, the best way to stop people coming here is to turn britain into a low paid, highly taxed and expensive shithole. they just have our best interests in mind.
I see the trend here, blame immigrants, whilst they may be part of the current problem they are not the main cause of it
Thatcher's right to but policy kicked off the housing problems, it wasn't overseas investors that bought these houses, it was locals, Brown's pension raids made BTL a viable investement option for people losing out on UK pensions, those 2 policies are the main reason why there is a crisis today
To penalise people now for taking up what they were encouraged to do in using housing as an investment would be political suicide and no politician is ever going to do it because if they did then their political life would be over
I like that immigrants put pressure to lowering the wages because they work for peanuts but put pressure to housing prices that not even locals can't afford
The same of immigrant stealing jobs but living on benefits
There are so many Schrödinger immigrant situations
Again, the problem is at the end of the one that points fingers, despite immigration having its challenges, are not the main problem. And the funny thing is that many are or immigrants because "UK is shit" or planning to immigrate, but I am sure they are not immigrants fecking the country where they had been received but lovely ex-pats that contributes (or will) fairly in the local economy
If i'm a slum landlord, i'm getting a buy-to-let mortgage on a run down 2 bed terrace, i'm fillering the cracks and painting the walls, and then renting each room for £300 a month (in the east midlands). I'm also turning one of the living rooms into a bedroom, making myself £900 a month from that property, cash, with no HMO regs, and nobody who'd dare complain about the state of the place.
If i'm even greedier, im taking the same property and renting the rooms as "sharing rooms", for £200 a month, basically getting £1200 a month from 6 people slumming it in a 2 bedroom house.
This is happening where i used to live. Some houses had mattresses everywhere. Who's living in these conditions? exploited poor immigrants.
And the ones that put the pressure on the housing are the immigrants or the greedier landlords that purchase the houses to run this schemes? Is that even legal to put people living in this conditions?
Why we accuse the exploited or not the ones that who exploit (landlords) and the ones that allows it (government)?
The same on lower wages (and under the table). Why we always blame the immigrant and not the employers that abuse of them and the government that allows it?
It is easier to catch a immigrant (that will be substituted buy another one) or the a physical house that can not move or a physical business building that can not move from where illegalities are being runned?
Again, there is the narrative to blame the immigrant and not the ones that commits illegalities in their house/business. Tackle the ones that profit of this and immigrants will not come because it will not be mouth to mouth effect on calling.
Again, the culprits are behind the finger the points the immigrants
You're not wrong. I reported such houses to my local councillor who blatantly said he'd turn a blind eye because the home owners were people from within our community. It's corrupt top to bottom.
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And then this same government (local Councillor, country level) will blame the immigrants but never landlords which they turn a blind eye.
That is why yes, the immigration brings challenges, i personally suffered some of them but I am more certain that the bigger part of the problem lays elsewhere and that elsewhere are the same people that caused this immigration situation. And they are to blame, not people that at the end of the day they just are trying to have a better life. And when I say they I mean me, as I am an immigrant and I lived in 7 different countries in different escenarios but I am mostly a privileged immigrant with options, even go back to my country and live a comfortable life. And I thought this way, before I had been an immigrant.