I know, but that's how it is. Ask @CutchAs Balu said time and time again, Effenberg seems to be massively underrated here, plus with Laudrup in the equation I don't think I'm losing to most of them. I'd take Effenberg-Modric/Ince over some or most of the midfields presented here.
Anyone who underrates all three of them together(especially with Gallas being replaced by Lahm) is crazy or stupid. or both.
The First Redcafe Sheep Draft
- Thread starter Moby
- Start date
How do you plan to play all 3 of Muller, Bergkamp and Robben?
Well, explaining that and the logic for preferring him over others fully would remove the element of surprise
Maybe later.
Müller could start on the left. That's if I wanted all three at the same time, of course.
That Chelsea defence was so good because it was protected by Makelele plus a solid central midfield of Essien and Lampard. Mourinho's Chelsea was a defensive side and the lack of goals conceded was a consequence of the team, not just the defence.
They're good defenders though, that being said.
They're good defenders though, that being said.
That's four now, maybe I did quite a good job selling my Germans .
Robben loves to play with Müller, btw. He gave an interview in which he basically said, that Kroos should be benched and Müller played, because he's so much better with him in the team.
.Robben loves to play with Müller, btw. He gave an interview in which he basically said, that Kroos should be benched and Müller played, because he's so much better with him in the team
.Personally I'd go with Robben on the left if that's the case. He played there for Chelsea and Holland and did quite well.
I'd say they are excellent defenders, and on top of that their familiarity of each other has to be a huge bonus.
I don't think that giving Makalele and Essien the credit for that relentless defending is a fair thing to do, they had the midfield battle for them and as much as they covered the defensive line, it still had some brilliant strikers, wingers and forwards to face on their own which they excelled in.
I guess you would want all of them at the same time, otherwise you wouldn't have taken him. You won't ever drop Bergkamp because as you said time and time again last match he's your star player, and dropping Robben isn't smart either because it takes a big venom off your attack.
Ruud van Nistelrooy
Depends on which Robben you want. Inverse winger or more classic winger and which fullback you want to target. Müller and Robben started together for Bayern both ways, depending on the opponent. You could even make a case for starting Müller as the 2nd striker behind Bergkamp and Cavani on the left.
Absolutely! Hated. Atleast he doesn't have Gallas but
Not a big fan of Cavani out wide. anto needs him up front or his goal threat dies down.
You had all of them at a certain draft didn't you? And people questioned Gallas as a RB didn't they? I guess I'll have your vote of confidence when it comes to defense
Edgar Allan Pillow : 1. Matthias Sammer
Cutch: 1. Kaka
@Thisistheone 1. Cafu
Pippa: 1. Vieira 2. RVN
antohan: 1. Thuram 2. Muller
Gio 1. Kohler 2. Hagi
Polaroid 1. Busquets 2. Cannavaro
VivaJanuzaj 1. A.Cole 2. Effenberg
Cutch: 1. Kaka
@Thisistheone 1. Cafu
Pippa: 1. Vieira 2. RVN
antohan: 1. Thuram 2. Muller
Gio 1. Kohler 2. Hagi
Polaroid 1. Busquets 2. Cannavaro
VivaJanuzaj 1. A.Cole 2. Effenberg
??? Bergkamp, Müller and Robben provide more than enough goals? I'd say that Cavani's overall play and workrate is here at least as important as his goalscoring record? His selflessness is perfect to get everyone involved.
All scorer of great goals, but great goalscorers?
Isn't Müller exactly the opposite of that? Rarely contributes in the smashings of weaker teams to boost his stats but scores time and time again important goals in important games?
That's what I meant. None of them are consistent scorers.
Anyway would be a massive waste to play Bergkamp up front when his best came while playing the hole.
I'm not sure you understood the post, I wasn't talking about a midfield battle.. But even if I was winning the ball in midfield is part of defending.
I watched that Chelsea side play every week and a huge reason the defence was successful was due to the protection offered by the midfield. If you think Terry/Carvalho would have had the same success without Makelele and Essien there then you are way off.
Wait, what? Robben and Müller have scored against all the big teams in the CL consistently in recent years? Unless you want Ronaldo like numbers from your wide players, you can't get much better than those two in terms of consistent scoring?
I knew this was going to be controversial with Aldo. Not that it matters to lose his vote, Redondo already has it all sown up. I'm saying that claiming that Makalele and Essien was the reason for that defensive success is rubbish, of course they are a major factor but it's a team effort and if Makalele & Essien were protecting a weaker defensive four it wouldn't have worked.
I'm saying that both were great, both the combination of Terry-Carvalho and Makalele-Essien's cover, and they completed each other. Neither wouldn't have been great without the other.
You need Ronaldo so that everyone thinks you will get three. Even when teams like these, with defences like these would rarely decide games on more than 1-2 goals, often from unexpected sources, so well marked the others would be...
Ronaldo like? Muller has a maximum of 13 league goals in a season. It's unnecessarily overcomplicated things for me, when you have a proven scorer why not play him up front instead of shoving him out wide? Makes no sense.
Nothing controversial, why did you think so? Balu and Aldo going at it again!Anyone got TITO's pick? can't wait to see the draw.
I'm here, won't be too long now.
You're a sensitive wee soul when it comes to your players, calm down.
I said they were good defenders, they just aren't top class in this company and a massive reason Chelsea defended so well was because of the midfield and the mentality Mourinho set the team out with. If you don't have that then don't be surprised if people rate the centre backs lower than you do.
Excellent. With Cutch been here several minutes ago we should finish this quickly.
@Cutch @Edgar Allan Pillow
@Cutch @Edgar Allan Pillow
I'm as calm as it gets don't worry mate, just thinking you're giving way to much credit to the midfielders in this occasion rather than the defenders themselves, midfielders(Makalele too) mostly have more tasks than simply defend the box. And that's where the defensive line come to action.Never mind, I get your point and I agree that if I had more defensive midfielders in mind they would've been better, but I just think that they are more than good defenders. Lets move on
It was just an option I mentioned, one I could see working very well. And again, who cares about Müller scoring a lot in the league.
In the CL games against big teams in recent years, he delivered consistently, that's where he shows up again and again to have a huge impact. He's not the one chasing goals against a midtable club in the league when Bayern is already in the lead.
Since the beginning of 2013, he has 2 goals and 1 assist in 3 games against Arsenal, 2 goals in 2 games against City, 1 goal in 2 games against Juve, 3 goals and 1 assist in 2 games against Barca. He also scored in the CL final against Chelsea in 2012. I said it in my write-up, a big game player if I ever saw one. He was Bayern's top scorer in the CL with 8 goals last season and is already on 4 this season and 3 of those were against City and Arsenal, and one away at Moscow, so the 4 most difficult games so far this season.
I do.
Yeah I understand. There are players who bring their best in the important games. But if you are expecting Muller to be the primary source of goals in the team it's completely different.
Anyway I don't see the point of shoving Cavani out wide specially when it means having someone who gave his best as a number 10 or a SS/RW to play there. There's just no need.
I'm here and ready with my pick. Just waiting for my turn now!
Unless Tito/Cutch screws it up. Then there will be bloodshed
Unless Tito/Cutch screws it up. Then there will be bloodshed
Ronaldo like? Muller has a maximum of 13 league goals in a season. It's unnecessarily overcomplicated things for me, when you have a proven scorer why not play him up front instead of shoving him out wide? Makes no sense.
Uruguay spent an entire World Cup and Copa América doing that with Cavani. Didn't turn out too bad, chap still managed 1 in 3 for the NT playing on the right.
The secret though was it was RM in a 4-4-2 which would morph into 4-3-3 with him playing further forward as and when. Has been quite handy as an ongoing tactical ploy and is working wonders with Stuani there now as people don't rate him at all, assume he is indeed an RM... when he is in fact a striker.
Yeah exactly, I didn't really like it when he was played out wide with Uruguay. He didn't give his best.
I would play Bergkamp as "the striker" in the defense but as the number 10 in the offense. Cavani, Robben and Müller running their asses of in the defense is something I wouldn't want to miss out on. Also Bergkamp ready on the break with Cavani, Robben and Müller making runs.
I'm here and ready with my pick. Just waiting for my turn now!
Unless Tito/Cutch screws it up. Then there will be bloodshed
Such an obvious pick
You should get him, but in fact won't.
Surprised Gio didn't go for Amoros because that front four was already great.
I didn't either, but it worked. Some games it could be a good call. I don't know who I'm playing so obviously the default is he is upfront.
I was as well, odd pick that.